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Surprised nobody`s started this topic. An MP - Geoffrey Dickens gives the then Home Sec Leon Brittan, documents alleging a paedo ring in Westminster...he hands it to somebody, not sure if he even looked at it, it ends up with the Police, and then mysteriously isnt kept....Dickens meanwhile has apparently had threats....and all around the time Cyril Smith was about.....something smells methinks...thought anybody ?
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Maybe its all a coincidence, but its another conspiracy theory we can have a go at...
So many unanswered questions here Pounf. On the other hand to your posers and something which adds to the intrigue was Portillo on This Week last night. I remember Dickens being seen to be something of a figure of fun around and after this time and Portillo having said he was a pretty good friend but went on to say something to the effect that you couldn't trust a word he said. Even allowing for that fact there are questions to be answered here and even allowing for the fact that we are currently in a paedophile frenzy which contrasts with that time when people were often fairly blase about the issue there remain questions to be answered.
Brittan's answers don't pass the what would you do test. If someone came to you with a bundle of great length making detailed allegations going to the heart of the body politic would you be happy palming it off to an official? Even if you did wouldn't you follow it up? Given the detail, seriousnessof the allegations and the fact that they were being championed by a member of the government wouldn't you go the extra mile to make sure everything was fully investigated? Given that Dickens had gone to all this trouble is there are any reason why he would just leave it there? Logic would say that somebody of serious repute must have informed him that this had been properly investigated and that it didn't pass the test of likelihood of securing a conviction. Who was that person and on what basis was such as assurance given? Further, it was the 1980's and not the 1880's. How on earth can such evidence be lost?
So many questions with answers almost certainly lost in the fullness of time. Probably mission accomplished.
Brittan's answers don't pass the what would you do test. If someone came to you with a bundle of great length making detailed allegations going to the heart of the body politic would you be happy palming it off to an official? Even if you did wouldn't you follow it up? Given the detail, seriousnessof the allegations and the fact that they were being championed by a member of the government wouldn't you go the extra mile to make sure everything was fully investigated? Given that Dickens had gone to all this trouble is there are any reason why he would just leave it there? Logic would say that somebody of serious repute must have informed him that this had been properly investigated and that it didn't pass the test of likelihood of securing a conviction. Who was that person and on what basis was such as assurance given? Further, it was the 1980's and not the 1880's. How on earth can such evidence be lost?
So many questions with answers almost certainly lost in the fullness of time. Probably mission accomplished.
Leon himself questioned about a rape allegation,something is rotten in the state of denmark ,and it smells feckin putrid here also.
Norman Tebbit believes a Home Office/Establishment cover up.
Where is David Icke? slightly mad but slightly before his time.
Where is David Icke? slightly mad but slightly before his time.
Always get suspicious when they rush to discredit somebody.
As Mr Optimist said
I remember Dickens being seen to be something of a figure of fun around and after this time and Portillo having said he was a pretty good friend but went on to say something to the effect that you couldn't trust a word he said.
He struck me as very sincere; for Portillo to say that of a fellow Conservative MP seems peculiar.
30 years since Elm Guest House; let's hope it is not mission accomplished, and the names are investigated.
With Icke, most people associate him with mad pronouncement on lizards; but as with Saville he was ahead of his time; but was easy to poke fun at.
114 files gone missing? I am with Tebbitt on this.
As Mr Optimist said
I remember Dickens being seen to be something of a figure of fun around and after this time and Portillo having said he was a pretty good friend but went on to say something to the effect that you couldn't trust a word he said.
He struck me as very sincere; for Portillo to say that of a fellow Conservative MP seems peculiar.
30 years since Elm Guest House; let's hope it is not mission accomplished, and the names are investigated.
With Icke, most people associate him with mad pronouncement on lizards; but as with Saville he was ahead of his time; but was easy to poke fun at.
114 files gone missing? I am with Tebbitt on this.
Icke is a crackpot. Read his website.
Dickens had a very high opinion of himself but as a an anti-establishment Tory maverick I remember having some time for him. I think we can take it one of the suspects was Cyril Smith,as it is the present MP for Rochdale who has been pursuing this. There were others named apparently,but Brittan was hardly likely to be one as surely Dickens wouldn't have given it to him.
Dickens had a very high opinion of himself but as a an anti-establishment Tory maverick I remember having some time for him. I think we can take it one of the suspects was Cyril Smith,as it is the present MP for Rochdale who has been pursuing this. There were others named apparently,but Brittan was hardly likely to be one as surely Dickens wouldn't have given it to him.
I'm with Tebbit on this one 
The same Tebbitt who was once reported as saying Jimmy Saville was a thoroughly interesting and nice guy Maggie and her merry henchmen were a loveable lot. Saville even spent xmas lunch with the Thatchers didn't he ?
The same Tebbitt who was once reported as saying Jimmy Saville was a thoroughly interesting and nice guy Maggie and her merry henchmen were a loveable lot. Saville even spent xmas lunch with the Thatchers didn't he ?
Icke is a crackpot. Read his website.
So are many Christians - Read the bible - but if Christians report on child abuse cover ups by the political establishment would you simply discredit it because they believe in the resurrection of of a dead man?
Icke has beliefs that we see as crazy, but he was blowing the whistle many years ago. Don`t forget before he had the `second coming` awakening or whatever it was he worked for the BBC. To suggest everything he comes out with is crackpot theory is probably what the establishment wish from you Salmon.
The shape shifting, reptilian bloodline beliefs are as mad as a man in the sky holding a book of 10 commandments but we wouldn`t discredit the Archbishop for attempting to blow the whistle on child abuse would we?
So are many Christians - Read the bible - but if Christians report on child abuse cover ups by the political establishment would you simply discredit it because they believe in the resurrection of of a dead man?
Icke has beliefs that we see as crazy, but he was blowing the whistle many years ago. Don`t forget before he had the `second coming` awakening or whatever it was he worked for the BBC. To suggest everything he comes out with is crackpot theory is probably what the establishment wish from you Salmon.
The shape shifting, reptilian bloodline beliefs are as mad as a man in the sky holding a book of 10 commandments but we wouldn`t discredit the Archbishop for attempting to blow the whistle on child abuse would we?
Your born you live you die,the worms eat you they set you on fire the vultures eat you,
Enjoy life while you can dont worry about the afterlife there is none your a long time dead.
Enjoy life while you can dont worry about the afterlife there is none your a long time dead.
But how do electrons understand each others energy levels Flush?
We don`t really have the answers do we?
We don`t really have the answers do we?
The problem with Icke is that some of the people he has named HAVE been up to something dodgy. The trouble is he has named practically the whole establishment so if you throw enough darts some are bound to be accurate.
I agree fundamentalist Christians are also not quite sane but I believe most intelligent ones now take much of the Bible as being metaphorical.
I agree fundamentalist Christians are also not quite sane but I believe most intelligent ones now take much of the Bible as being metaphorical.
There have been massive efforts to discredit Icke but nobody has ever actually disproved his accusations of shape shifting lizards.
He may well be right about the others that he has named salmon, we may never find out because as we know protection gets more strident the further you go up.
He hasn`t been throwing darts as such Salmon, he has mentioned individual accounts such as the Brittan/Dickens dossier and other cases. He then casts aspertians on those higher up and it is this that links in with his freemason links and then his reptilian bloodline flapdoodle.
Interestingly many of the whistle blowers( lets include Icke for argument sake ) go slightly off piste.
Icke and his matrix/reptilian bloodline beliefs( how mad is open to interpretation )
David Shayler/MI5 whisle blower - also believes he is the second coming of Christ and now a cross dresser named Delores.
Bradley Manning - Had the full sex change now named Chelsea Elizabeth Manning.
He hasn`t been throwing darts as such Salmon, he has mentioned individual accounts such as the Brittan/Dickens dossier and other cases. He then casts aspertians on those higher up and it is this that links in with his freemason links and then his reptilian bloodline flapdoodle.
Interestingly many of the whistle blowers( lets include Icke for argument sake ) go slightly off piste.
Icke and his matrix/reptilian bloodline beliefs( how mad is open to interpretation )
David Shayler/MI5 whisle blower - also believes he is the second coming of Christ and now a cross dresser named Delores.
Bradley Manning - Had the full sex change now named Chelsea Elizabeth Manning.
He WILL be right about one or two but he says what seems to be the whole Royal Family are not only paedophiles but Satanists who sacrifice children. Oh and of course come from reptilian bloodlines and most of them are shapeshifters. I am sure that the Royal Family have one or two dirty little secrets future generations may find out about but I think the sort of stuff Icke comes out with just discredits by association people who are making allegations which may be correct.
True enough Salmon, and i have said it before about Icke that he mistakes his own imagination as intelligence.
You need to sieve out the real world from his `Dreamworld` aspertians. It seems quite obvious the distinctions. He posted this up Dec 2012.
http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/76404-norman-tebbit-the-chairman-of-the-conservative-party-when-known-paedophile-peter-morrison-was-appointed-deputy-chairman/
You need to sieve out the real world from his `Dreamworld` aspertians. It seems quite obvious the distinctions. He posted this up Dec 2012.
http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/76404-norman-tebbit-the-chairman-of-the-conservative-party-when-known-paedophile-peter-morrison-was-appointed-deputy-chairman/
When they rush to discredit somebody, the first thing to ask is why.
he was a pretty good friend but went on to say something to the effect that you couldn't trust a word he said.
To dismiss a "friend" and Fellow Tory MP with you couldn't trust a word he said. Is pretty extreme.
The last time I remember politicians rushing to discredit somebody it was Dr. David Kelly who warned that from his evidence WMD in Iraq did not definitely exist.We now know why.
Tebbitt said in the 1980s the first reaction was to "protect the system". It hasn't changed much.
he was a pretty good friend but went on to say something to the effect that you couldn't trust a word he said.
To dismiss a "friend" and Fellow Tory MP with you couldn't trust a word he said. Is pretty extreme.
The last time I remember politicians rushing to discredit somebody it was Dr. David Kelly who warned that from his evidence WMD in Iraq did not definitely exist.We now know why.
Tebbitt said in the 1980s the first reaction was to "protect the system". It hasn't changed much.
Yes that's fair enough but of course the meat of it is a quote from Edwina Currie who,whatever else you may think about her,is not stark staring mad. It is a bit worrying that the two politicians about whose pederasty there seems to be a concensus are both dead. Smith lived to a good age but Morrison perhaps conveniently drank himself to death ( I imagine as he was certainly an alcoholic )at 51. He would only be 70 if alive now.
In answer to Susie's point I imagine that someone like Kelly would still have the weight of the establishment against him,but it may be more difficult than it was to defend child abusers. Celebrities who had been " at it " for decades have now been caught up with in their 80s. I think the same is about to happen to some elderly politicians. We have already been thrown a couple of sacrifices ,but so far only dead ones. I hope and expect one or two live ones will follow.
The Elm Guest House list has been circulating for some time.
I am glad to read of today's announcement re an enquiry.
Dickens appears to have been subject to a lot of pressure following his allegations.
I am glad to read of today's announcement re an enquiry.
Dickens appears to have been subject to a lot of pressure following his allegations.
susie
I may have slightly misled you there. The sense that I got from what Portillo was saying was that because Dickens wasn't taken altogether seriously as an individual his crusade on the issue wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been at the time. The inferral was that had it been someone else.... In other words it would have allowed those with things to hide to pull the wool over the eyes of those supposedly looking into it.
All that said my point stands. It was the 1980's. Sure there was a slightly different view about "promiscuous girls of 14/15" and what they did but paedophilia by that time had pretty much left behind it's dirty little secret image of the 50's and 60's. There needs to be some serious ar5e kicking over this.
I shudder to think what secrets will come out in 30 years and wonder whether people will semi shrug their shoulders because the past is deemed another country. No it isn't. Justice must be done whenever the crime happened. We are still looking for and prosecuting Nazis.
I may have slightly misled you there. The sense that I got from what Portillo was saying was that because Dickens wasn't taken altogether seriously as an individual his crusade on the issue wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been at the time. The inferral was that had it been someone else.... In other words it would have allowed those with things to hide to pull the wool over the eyes of those supposedly looking into it.
All that said my point stands. It was the 1980's. Sure there was a slightly different view about "promiscuous girls of 14/15" and what they did but paedophilia by that time had pretty much left behind it's dirty little secret image of the 50's and 60's. There needs to be some serious ar5e kicking over this.
I shudder to think what secrets will come out in 30 years and wonder whether people will semi shrug their shoulders because the past is deemed another country. No it isn't. Justice must be done whenever the crime happened. We are still looking for and prosecuting Nazis.
Don't think it's been mentioned but I recolied in horror this morning listening to a tape of Tim Fortescue on Radio 5.
He was a whip in Heath's Govt. He's now dead but in 1995 he spoke about his role of 'getting MPs out of trouble.'
'What kind of trouble?'
'If an MP was found drunk or if he'd been involved with young boys..we would try and help'.
Quite why this tape was never handed to the Old Bill immediately in 95 is truly sickening. Here's a bloke admitting to assisting peados within our ****** pariliament.
The level of cover up is astonishing. The whips were prepared to warn off any investigation into the most horrific of crimes. Even now we have parliament investigating itself!!!
They will contaminate the evidence and totally balls up any police investigation.
He was a whip in Heath's Govt. He's now dead but in 1995 he spoke about his role of 'getting MPs out of trouble.'
'What kind of trouble?'
'If an MP was found drunk or if he'd been involved with young boys..we would try and help'.
Quite why this tape was never handed to the Old Bill immediately in 95 is truly sickening. Here's a bloke admitting to assisting peados within our ****** pariliament.
The level of cover up is astonishing. The whips were prepared to warn off any investigation into the most horrific of crimes. Even now we have parliament investigating itself!!!
They will contaminate the evidence and totally balls up any police investigation.
the whips are so bloody powerful they know more than the PM
The sentences these kind of people receive is disgusting in its leniency. They should not be looked upon as fragile old men but people who have committed the most henious of crimes. They have been able to live most of their lives and a few years at the end of their lives in prison is nothing compared to the lifetime of abuse they have caused their victims to endure.
A lifetime sentence would not even be just because they have lived their lives. Some kind of physical punishment should be involved for these people.
For every child they have been found guilty of abusing its certain they have escaped justice for abuses of other children who have chosen not to come forward. Yet, they are judged by laws set 30 years ago when some crimes were called different things.
A lifetime sentence would not even be just because they have lived their lives. Some kind of physical punishment should be involved for these people.
For every child they have been found guilty of abusing its certain they have escaped justice for abuses of other children who have chosen not to come forward. Yet, they are judged by laws set 30 years ago when some crimes were called different things.
The level of cover up is astonishing.
It is but it shouldn`t come as a shock. Talk of paedophile rings involving the political establishment have been rife for years. Only now it is in the mainstream media do people decide to listen.
It is but it shouldn`t come as a shock. Talk of paedophile rings involving the political establishment have been rife for years. Only now it is in the mainstream media do people decide to listen.
I have no interest in defending Fortescue and certainly not anybody who abuses children or has non-consensual sex with anybody but you have to remember the age of homosexual consent at the time he was talking about was 21. If we are being kind we could assume he was talking about MPs who liked 19 year old boys say. If he wasn't I agree it is appalling
He said 'small boys'..
I assume he meant children well under the age of consent.
At what point will the police take control of this? ( I know they're hardly trustworthy but who else can we rely upon??)
I assume he meant children well under the age of consent.
At what point will the police take control of this? ( I know they're hardly trustworthy but who else can we rely upon??)
put yourself in these peoples shoes where do you go for help
mp,s no chance
police no thanks
civil servants,judges,
think the newspapers are there only hope,and even then there must be plenty of journo,s who new what was going on
mp,s no chance
police no thanks
civil servants,judges,
think the newspapers are there only hope,and even then there must be plenty of journo,s who new what was going on
If he said "small boys" rather than "young boys" I agree that sounds unambiguous. I can imagine a whip covering up homosexual behaviour,which they certainly did in all parties,but paedophilia is something different. Quite amazing.
Salmon Spray it was against the law,MPs make the law its not too much to ask them to obey their own laws.
That a whip thinks its his job to cover up wrong doing speaks volumes.
That a whip thinks its his job to cover up wrong doing speaks volumes.
Apologies Salmon, yes it was 'small' rather than 'young'.
Truly pitiful.
Truly pitiful.
Can't believe the two people who have been appointed to run these so called investigations.One was a civil servant till a year ago!! ha ha!!!
Lot of stuff has just disappeared. Police historically warned off. Accusations of even the judiciary and police involved and so it goes on. Cops scared of speaking out etc etc etc
What a stink comes from westminster. Went on guardian page and hey ho they have a problem with comments/blog it has a glitch and you can't post - but it is not a conspiracy !!!!
Lot of stuff has just disappeared. Police historically warned off. Accusations of even the judiciary and police involved and so it goes on. Cops scared of speaking out etc etc etc
What a stink comes from westminster. Went on guardian page and hey ho they have a problem with comments/blog it has a glitch and you can't post - but it is not a conspiracy !!!!
Message to all the old Tory nutjobs who frequent this forum Maggie and the so called golden age don't look so good
Now do they she fekin new and so did her vegetables, but the party and money comes first
Now do they
she fekin new and so did her vegetables, but the party and money comes first
The met should be searching the whole of Westminster and dragging anyone involved in by the scruff of their necks. If you or me make aracial or nasty comment to someone their banging at your door within minuets,
I`ve heard anecdotal evidence from people I trust that this is not just a conspiracy theory, I really hope the truth comes out and the guilty are named, shamed and locked up.
Talk about a whitewash and cover up
Cameron put in charge of the review
the sister of the attorney general
in the 1980 s
local tory spinner said
its more of a case of just another
bad judgement call by spiv Cameron
Cameron put in charge of the review
the sister of the attorney general
in the 1980 s
local tory spinner said
its more of a case of just another
bad judgement call by spiv Cameron
It's difficult to see who they would appoint,if you take out politicians,the police and the judiciary. Perhaps a trusted cuddly children's TV presenter ? 
needs to be a female, educated, around at that time and with no political axe to grind. I say Delia Smith.
Simon Danczuk MP said the family connection made her ill-suited to investigate allegations about how the Government handled alleged paedophiles. “She is a very intelligent woman with some knowledge of the subject, but she is far too much an establishment figure.
“It’s astonishing the Government didn’t realise that they were appointing the sister of someone who had tried to deter the prosecution of a significant paedophile in the 1980s. “Why they wouldn’t have spotted that, or think that’s an issue, raises serious questions.
“It’s astonishing the Government didn’t realise that they were appointing the sister of someone who had tried to deter the prosecution of a significant paedophile in the 1980s. “Why they wouldn’t have spotted that, or think that’s an issue, raises serious questions.
She might be as impartial as can reasonably be expected but she is 80. I thought this was expected to go on for years. It would be a nightmare if she succumbed to ill-health after 3 or 4 years and they had to start again. I nominate our very own Mr Eo. He used to be a barrister,doesn't like anybody very much,and is a comparative spring chicken.
Maggies friendship with Savile open many doors for him
Maggies goverment funded PIE
No wonder the tories want a cover up
Maggies goverment funded PIE
No wonder the tories want a cover up
i,ll repeat my point of the last 2 years, the system is broken,surely its dawned on someone that the only way we can expect a politican to tell the truth is to haul them in front of a judge and hope they dont perjure themselves,fcuk me cant we just expect them to tell the truth if not throw the lot out
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