We should humbly applaud the super rich.

nlad exposed once again, a self confessed millionaire paying people peanuts to work in his (imaginary) restaurant.

Give it 5 minutes he'll resort to insults and abuse

I pay the competitive going rate, that is all I can do until the Government raises the minimum wage to at least 10 pounds ph. Otherwise I become uncompetitive, go bust and everybody's out of work!

Im surprised you don't feel insulted already Blackburn, Ivor, - "Liars & traitors to your ancestors"

But then I suppose you look down on all working class low life.

I pay the competitive going rate, that is all I can do until the Government raises the minimum wage to at least 10 pounds ph. Otherwise I become uncompetitive, go bust and everybody's out of work!

Yes but I'm sure you follow the John Lewis model and give all staff a share of the profits?

(You're enjoying this aren't you ivor)

But then I suppose you look down on all working class low life.

What sort of person would refer to the working class as lowlife?

nlad have you got any albums by the Clash?

Dr Crippen 18 Nov 13 14:47 
The clever people tend to have all the wealth.

If you shared a desert island with with one of them and there were only rocks on the island. Pretty soon he'd own all the rocks.

That's life.



Nonsense.

The connected people are those who tend to have all the wealth. This popular belief that if you are clever and willing to work hard enough then you'll get rich is an urban myth.

And those who will own everything, including all the rocks and the air that we breathe some day, are those to whom we have given the right to conjure money out of thin air and lend it at compounded interest. And that has sweet f/k all to do with being clever or working hard, in fact very often quite the opposite.

That's real life.

That's just plain weird! For over two hundred years and longer my ancestors (and their siblings) have been agricultural workers initially) then railway-workers, steel-workers and miners. Dad was a soldier and factory shift-worker.
I don't feel insulted as I don't value your opinion.

Blackburn, Ivor, I meet your sort everyday!
Your entire live has been devoted to attempting to acquire wealth, through money property etc & there is nothing wrong with that.

I know it is not the be all and end all, but it allows me to go on to new projects that create & employ people. I still prefer the company of your average person, as most business people are t******.

You on the other hand do it mainly to try and aquire status, you want people to look up to you & envy you. You judge people strictly on their outward displays of wealth. Look down on those with less than you, and up to people with more. You despise ordinary working people and would never consider yourself working class as I will always, but middle class is the absolute minimum for you.

Admit it your inadequate and whatever wealth you acquire, always will be.
That's why you vote Tory because even in the privacy of a polling booth your perceived self status is all that counts.

Ain't I the c*** for forcing you to truly confront yourselves!

You are the c for stealing my time!
Give your wealth away nl5 - you KNOW it makes sense.

But you hung around Ivor to find out what I really think, cos you care what I really think.

Sorry to disappoint! If you were like me you wouldn't care what anybody else thinks, cos the only thing that really matters is what you think of yourself!

This popular belief that if you are clever and willing to work hard enough then you'll get rich is an urban myth.

Well there's no myth about being dim and idle holding you back
That's cast in stone.

I'm not so sure that you even have to be ''clever'' in order to get on in life.
I'm not talking about making millions here, although some of my friends have and they left school without any qualifications. 
Too busy having a good time when opportunity knocks is the reason that many remain at the bottom.

I can't take the tories anymore. First they put about that to be poor is a sign of your inadequacy rather than unfortunate and now they want us humbly grateful to the rich for deigning to pay taxes?  We haven't been living in a meritocracy, rich are rich for many reasons , inate talent and hard work are 2 of those reasons but only 2, most people are rich because they inherited wealth or got lucky or both , they have loads of money which is great for them but to expect us to see them as superior beings too is just a sick joke.

Dr Crippen do u really believe that for eg single mothers really are more idle than rich people who live off their investments? As for dim , how dim were all those who couldn't see that if you keep selling debt on for a profit that eventually the whole pyramid will crash for eg? Some of these dimbos are living high on the hog with all that cash they allegedly didn't scam as they weren't aware of the long term consquences of what they were doing apparently.

northern lad

Yes Ivor, I suppose you also think the Trade Union Movement & Labour party wasn't the most important development in improving the lives of working people, culminating in the plentiful lifestyle most in this country enjoy today.

I certainly don't. The extension of voting rights throughout the 19th century was more important than unions and the ruinous Labour party.

Dr Crippen do u really believe that for eg single mothers really are more idle than rich people who live off their investments?

Well if the single mother doesn't work and lives off benefits then absolutely.
She does nothing at all for her money.

Dr Crippen do u really believe that for eg single mothers really are more idle than rich people who live off their investments?

Well if the single mother doesn't work and lives off benefits then absolutely.
She does nothing at all for her money.

Boris surely is taking the p iss when he says this:“It is my duty to stick up for every put-upon minority in the city – from the homeless to Irish travellers to ex-gang members to disgraced former MPs,” Mr Johnson wrote.

“But there is one minority that I still behold with a benign bewilderment, and that is the very, very rich.

Haha next thing is we'll be given gold ribbons to wear to show our support for the beleaguered minority the super rich.

Yes she does Dr she brings up children who according to tories will be paying off the debts racked up by Labour for their whole lives. Maybe she looks after an ageing grandparent too and saves the state having to do so . I bet plenty of single mothers work hard for no pay at all just paltry benefits and derision from the likes of you .

I really don't understand all this envy. If you're not happy with what you have then get out there and earn what you want. If someone won't give you what you think you are worth go somewhere else or start up on your own. If you are happy with your life then why should it concern you how well someone else is doing?

Stop pointing the finger and take responsibility for your own life and actions.

Buzzer

If she's a single mum living on benefits then her life may not be a bowl of cherries but her children don't have a role model working so on balance it is a bit of a push to assume that her offspring will be paying off the national debt. There must be a good chance that they will be the next generation of loafers and bludgers.

he top one per cent of earners now pay 29.8 per cent of all the income tax and National Insurance received by the Treasury. In 1979 – when Labour had a top marginal rate of 83 per cent tax after Denis Healey had earlier vowed to squeeze the rich until the pips squeaked – the top one per cent paid only 11 per cent of income tax. Now, the top 0.1 per cent – about 29,000 people – pay an amazing 14.1 per cent of all taxes.

Can't see how this a good thing at all. All it shows is that those at the very top are taking a far bigger portion of the nations wealth. It shows that society has become more disparate with a bigger gap between those at the very top and the rest of society.

It's not envy its anger at the injustice EO.

Yes she does Dr she brings up children who according to tories will be paying off the debts racked up by Labour for their whole lives.

Or adding to the debt along with what their mothers have already taken in handouts to bring them up.

Under achievers have always got a bag full of excuses to choose from.
And after they’ve used them up they can always think of some more.

Yeah some of them were abandoned and put in children's homes fancy being so inadequate as to let that happen to you and as for the father of your child fuc king off and leaving you holding the baby, get a grip bitc h some of us have houses to invest in.

Call it what you want Buzzer. You want to steal what someone else has instead of generating the wealth yourself. That's an interesting interpretation of justice.

Buzzer

There are many examples of people brought up in care homes and who had horrible starts but who have made a success of their lives. They didn't look for excuses. There will always be an excuse or someone else to blame for those who want it.

I call it anger at injustice EO cos that's what it is.

Where would Alan Sugar be today if he hadn’t had a go because the odds were against him?

There are many like him.

Nov 18, 2013 -- 6:26PM, Dr Crippen wrote:

Dr Crippen do u really believe that for eg single mothers really are more idle than rich people who live off their investments? Well if the single mother doesn't work and lives off benefits then absolutely.She does nothing at all for her money.

Correction..........she breeds for money, so that is doing something.

Sugar is a short-arse as well. That makes it even harder.

It is very easy for those who have a safety net of family and wealth not so easy for those who don't have either. Envy is one of the motivators than drives people to get more so not sure why you condemn it anyway.

She lay on her back and opened her crack and benefits fell out of the ceiling.

Nov 18, 2013 -- 6:47PM, Dr Crippen wrote:

Where would Alan Sugar be today if he hadn’t had a go because the odds were against him?There are many like him.

It was easier in the 1980's than it is now.......30 years of more stupid laws and regulations, and of course higher taxes.

Eeternaloptimist     18 Nov 13 18:43 
Call it what you want Buzzer. You want to steal what someone else has instead of generating the wealth yourself. That's an interesting interpretation of justice.

I suspect quite a few of the top 1% have stolen from someone else. The mega rich don't play by the rules the rest of us do.

George Carlin sums it up very well here. The line about coming for the social security money has played out as he predicted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

I suspect quite a few of the top 1% have stolen from someone else. The mega rich don't play by the rules the rest of us do.

Of course not..........laws in their favour via special interest groups.

Mighty Whites 2008 18 Nov 13 18:37 
he top one per cent of earners now pay 29.8 per cent of all the income tax and National Insurance received by the Treasury. In 1979 – when Labour had a top marginal rate of 83 per cent tax after Denis Healey had earlier vowed to squeeze the rich until the pips squeaked – the top one per cent paid only 11 per cent of income tax. Now, the top 0.1 per cent – about 29,000 people – pay an amazing 14.1 per cent of all taxes.

Can't see how this a good thing at all. All it shows is that those at the very top are taking a far bigger portion of the nations wealth. It shows that society has become more disparate with a bigger gap between those at the very top and the rest of society.




I think I read somewhere else on this thread before.

This is precisely the ugly flip-side of what BJ tries to present as a.....good thing......an accelerating wealth disparity. But never dares to even mention it.

The 1pc is getting more and more of a shrinking pie. That's not a good thing by any measure for any society, I couldn't give a sh1t how many taxes they 1pc pay.

It trickles down Menelaus don't you know.

Envy is one of the motivators than drives people to get more so not sure why you condemn it anyway.

I don't agree Buzzer. Envy is the feeling that those who don't intend to look after themselves feel. It's a negative emotion. People who reach the top from the bottom tend to be strivers. They may have some luck along the way but they are motivated to do well through aspiration and optimism.

"It trickles down Menelaus don't you know."



I detect some sarcasm there. Good, because the "trickle down" spin was debunked long ago.

If it trickles down, why is the wealth disparity accelerating? If it trickles down, why are REAL wages falling? If it trickles down, why is average income (excluding earnings from financial markets, dividends and bonus payments) falling? If it trickles down, where are the new jobs (on an earnings equivalent basis)? If it trickles down, why is the civilian employment to population ratio the lowest in decades?

It "trickles down" my arse. In crony capitalism the only that trickles down is the burden of servicing debt.

Let's consider this question for a moment.

Whi would slate to death anyone famous with black skin? (even Nelson Mandela)

Who would slate to death anyone poor especially on benefits?

Who would slate anyone working for the state sector?

Who defends to the hilt the bankers, and the the nazi murderers like Pinochet?

Whi defends the bedroom tax?

Who denies Enoch Powell was a racist?

Who loves the Thatch so much he lied about her proven support for the psychopath and million murderer Pol Pot?

Now then who else would put up a thread asking us to humbly aplaud the bankers, the chief officers of the rip off energy giants, and the spivs and speculators that fund the corrupt Conservative party?

Answer?

The eeternalklart. Predicatble.

Odious of course but predictable.

EO. So only people who don't want to look after themselves feel envy then? Really? Strivers don't ever feel envious? Dossers do? Do people only envy that which can be gained by 'striving'?

That's an interesting question Buzzer. Anybody can feel envy. I just don't think it is as powerful a motivator as aspiration because it is a negative emotion whereas aspiration is optimistic in nature and I think you need a degree of optimism to take the chance and hopefully succeed.

cry

I've already told you I'm no longer getting into the punch and judy with you. Obviously I reject your characterisation of me because of it's many inaccuracies but I doubt you will change your view of me and likewise. You don't need to lie to make your point though.

"Odious of course but predictable."


He is not lying. He is telling the truth. But he is only partly right. He would have nailed it had he added massively stupid to that line.

cry

I've already told you I'm no longer getting into the punch and judy with you.



It's never stopped the cretin before!

Obviously I reject your characterisation of me.

You don't say!

Miss Niomi Cambell, Garry Barlow, Ozzie Osborne, Rio Ferdinand.

Eeternaloptimist salutes you!

Drop your undies and he'll go a lot, lot further if you want!



Chickensh!t - owned coount!

Have you been rohypnolled and spit roasted again Mad Lad?

These "space men" have got a lot to answer for.

If it trickles down, why are REAL wages falling?

Oversupply of labour.

Oversupply of labour.


That too. But far from being the only reason as a simpleton would see it.

It's the destruction of the British workers rights that has started since Thatcher. It's the offshoring of British jobs with the governments help and approval. It's productivity gains, squeezing more for less out of the British worker. It's automation designed to eliminate the British worker and increase profits. It's real inflation that the government keeps denying.

Are you starting to get it, or shall I go on?

Another thing you should be asking yourself is WHY the oversupply of labour, because immigration alone falls FAR from explaining it.

If we should be thankful because these rich are job creators, then where are the jobs? Why is there more labour available than jobs created?

See if you can first get your empty right wing cranium to figure that one out.

Then I'll give you the right answer.

Oooh goody. Professor Melly is in the house.

Another thing you should be asking yourself is WHY the oversupply of labour, because immigration alone falls FAR from explaining it.

Who mentioned immigration?

It's remarkable how Menelaus lectures people on here like he's just discovered what most people regard as taken.

It's laughable to read his stuff the way he presents it, when it's simply going over old ground for people like EO myself and many more.

That's just one of his many problems. He thinks he's delivering tablets of stone to wet behind the ears kids. His arrogance would be offensive if he wasn't so much fun to wind up.

Following on from the issue of oversupply of labour.
Here is a very interesting interview with James Goldsmith from 1994.
Eo first posted a link to the interview some years ago so many will be familiar with the points he raised.

It’s in five parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI

Goldsmith predicted back then the widespread unemployment we are seeing in the West.
Along with the inevitable falling of living standards for the masses.

Time has left you mugs behind.

This isn't 1994 anymore.

You can't be civil to anyone who isn't sucking up to you can you Melly?

What character are you dressed in today? The sophisticated civil type? The lunatic with the 100 disguises? The cut & paste moron? The rancid racist? The fascist lover? All of the above?

It's hard to tell anymore.

Same old me Melly. If you're a decent poster left or right and you have intelligent points to make in a civil manner then I will debate them with you cordially and we can have a laugh. If you are a nutter spouting rubbish then I'll laugh at you and pull your leg. Sometimes I go too far with that.

If you are an egomaniacal, arrogant, blusterer whose sole means of communicating with people who disagree with you is attempts to demean the person and tirades then I'm afraid I'll take you to school and leave you at the gates with no dinner money.

Are you hungry yet Melly?

Aaaah, the sophisticated civil type today !!!!!

I'd lay odds we'll get to see the rest of your characters before the day is over.

Too bad though......you can't hide STUPID.

I know. You do try though.

It didn't take long to get you out of the "sophisticated and civil" costume, did it?

One post.

I've already told you Melly. You get special treatment but not because you are special.

No, wrong again, my Pavlovian dog.

I get special treatment because once I spanked you once the first time we engaged, you were hooked for life trying to get even.

It's not working out so well for you, is it?

Do you really think that Melly? I mean really? Man are you ever in trouble here. You're a long way from home and your only friend is someone who gets rogered by aliens.

Do you really think that Melly?


Yeah, I do.

I don't suffer from psychosis or have an obsession compulsion that divorce me from reality and make me live in the fantasy and delusions you keep putting up on here. You know, I don't exhibit any "signs of madness" that Chippie pointed out you do.

The only problem for you has been that instead of getting even, things got progressively worse for you. That's when you totally lost your mind, went full retard obsessed, and started raining alter-egos on my head.

Do you know what the biggest tell is that someone has been turned over really bad on here.........never mind.......I THINK YOU DO.

Oh no. Indeed not Melly. You don't exhibit any signs of madness. None at all. No sir.

You are capable of telling the truth every now and then !!!!

Who knew?

One of my clients will be paying £200k in VAT alone, by this time next year on personal expenses. They are self made entrepreneurs.

It's just one example of why we should be pleased that the rich know what they're doing when it comes to wealth creation.

The media, Clegg and Milliband would encourage us all to bash the rich and adopt a politics of envy and reverse snobbery.

It's childish, ignorant and foolish.

Indeed. I remember Blair and Brown praising the banking sector for the large amounts of wealth created, and the enormous amounts of tax for the Exchequer.

I don't think he even clued in that the £200k in VAT he is so impressed with wasn't really paid by this self made entrepreneur but by his clients.

All hail the rich, we're not worthy, we're not worth.

Menelaus - your response is I'm afraid classic..

'All hail the rich, we're not worthy' is your comment.

I said we should be pleased that the rich know what they're doing.

I did NOT say we should worship them I said we should appreciate they're incredible contribution to paying for the public sector.

Why is this such an alien concept?

Injera

Totally agree. If we can attract these super rich people to live here from abroad they will pay more tax just in tips than most pay on their income.

We're not even talking about the super rich. Just clever people who come up with business ideas and make them work.

People who are now paying 40% income tax and contribute more in VAT than other people earn!!

They're mantra is always 'not who will employ me but who can I employ?'

We need a lot more entrepreneurs for sure. The government could help there by getting out of the way. We need a lot more of all kinds of people who pay more in than they take out.

A client paying 200k in VAT on personal expenses ? So his business is costing him a million s year in expenses? What business is this?

A personal spend of £1m over the next 12 months. It's not always like this!!!

Number of people employed on this project during this period will be 50+

Why is this such an alien concept?


Alien concept, no, there are many like you out there who think this way. Wrong concept, yes.


What BJ told the nation with his op-ed, in a back door way, and which with the exception of handful on here few understood, is that the wealth disparity not only continues its merry way in this country, it's accelerating.

You celebrate that because the rich "contribute" to services provided to the people, without uttering a word about what the rentiers extract form the nations wealth.

I don't share that view.

for the average person this envy talk doesnt excist beyond working and owning your own house,
no matter the cost ,size of your house etc while awake you live in one room, watch tv etc you see the same programme on a 20 inch tv as you do a 60 inch stuck on the wall,
as for going out social time etc, after work, wash , food etc your lucky if you have 2 hours a day to fill in,
so the only envy really is time to do what you want , but as most people as proved by those who retire would be bored shitless without a 40 hour working week,besides the intial buzz of no work ,were missing nothing,
the novelty of swimming pools,snooker tables , golf all day flash cars etc soon wears off as proved by countless unhappy lottery winners,
the reason people enjoy a treat ,day out etc is because its a change from work and you feel youve earned the right to it,wouldnt be the same if it was given to you on a plate everyday

The pie is getting smaller and the connected few are getting an increasingly larger share of it, at the expense of all of us, aided and abetted by our representatives running this madhouse.

And some on here think that is a "good thing".

Only on this forum.

dont think theres any doubt we have an underclass in this country and idiots like bj,footballers,x factor wannabees, city types think people envy them ,its an opinion but you,ll no for sure when they come and take it alah tottenham riots imagine that on a huge scale not a few bored kids letting off steam

'connected few'??

You assume wealthier people haven't got there by risking their marriage their house and their sanity.

Please be assured very few achieve a self employed income of 50k+ without doing the above.

The rich will always thrive in a recession. If they didn't they'd be utter fools. The buying possibilities in a downturn are everywhere and so the wealthy take the opportunity and climb in. It really isn't that hard.

This explains why the gap between the wealthy and those less well off is widening.

On the subject of the less well off, I don't think there's a country in the world that is so generous in looking after people. It is truly staggering and incredible.

According to The Poverty Site, 3.3m WORKING households received tax credits in 2011. The Govt is subsidising businesses and employees like never before.

The Socialist Party (is there one??) must be loving it!

GL.

I don't assume anything. I am one.

dive in LOL, they,ve recieved [awarded themselves ] 14% payrises as compared to awarding below inflation rises ,or freezes for their employees ,

The rich will always thrive in a recession. If they didn't they'd be utter fools. The buying possibilities in a downturn are everywhere and so the wealthy take the opportunity and climb in. It really isn't that hard.

This explains why the gap between the wealthy and those less well off is widening.




The gap was widening dramatically long before the recession started.

Wise words from Injera.

He seems to know a bit about business that isn't apparent to the college boys.

I said we should be pleased that the rich know what they're doing.

Oh yes Freddy Goodwin and Andy Coulson and the other super rich bankers really got the hang of things didn't they!

The gap was widening dramatically long before the recession started.



Quite right, and for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with buying opportunities in a downturn.

Quite right, and fo reasons that have absoultely everything to do with simple pure maths.

absoultely agree and I am all fo that.

sorry bowt that - my lady friend was fiddling with me at the time :(

Behave - we are musically minded.

And many a good tune old boy.

ou've just completed the circle.
EO is correct - the rich are the driving force. If we waited for lifetime unemployed alcoholic-junkie Terry in my street to make things happen - we'd still be living in caves.

___________

hmm, i think you'll find it's the honest hard workers on close to minimum wages that keeps the country afloat .

i have barely done a days hard work ,but i will concede this - the welfare population and superich aside do feck all to make the UK prosperous - they simply leach

so if i had my way ,the superich and benefit scroungers would all be shipped off to some remote island  and leave the rest of us in realtivwe prosperity

you're all scrounging  coonts 

menelaus, SPHINCTER is the very person you allude to in your first post on this particular topic, the trouble is he dosen't get it!!!!

Hello Bizarre. Nice of you to join us old sausage. I'll clue you in. Every post Melly writes is one long love letter to his great unrequited fantasy.

No, bazzar, trust me, he gets it.

Admitting that he gets it though is another story.

That boot gets in the way of his mouth.