Politics
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24 Jul 12
01:05
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Date Joined:
28 Jun 10
Go back 40-50 years and a fair chunk of the left would have far rather had a communist as opposed to capitalist system.
Does anybody here still think that way or did they all grow old or grow up?
Does anybody here still think that way or did they all grow old or grow up?
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Greedy capitalism lost all the money
Communism bailed them out  Capitalism takes what is not theirs |
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where most people (lefties and righties) make their big mistake is in thinking it's a matter of choice, whereas in fact it's simply matter of evolution from capitalism to cummunism.
Of course you can try to give evolution a bit of a prod now and again, but generally speaking it's probably safer to just sit back and watch. As ever, Comrade Lampus puts it more eloquently. |
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usual old Left v Right bollox.
Communism has never been popular in this country let alone supported by a "fair chunk". Opposition to greed and self interest does not equal Communism (apart from to a few Mail and Telegraph journos).(and those that unquestioningly read them) Christianity has consistently had more followers than Communism in this country during my lifetime. |
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gus
So what happened to all the countries which went commie? |
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no both are theoretically an idealistic concept, both have been proven to have failed through incompetance ,nepotism and avarice.
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Greed and self interest are the base of human life, that's what made us coming down from our tree. There is no way somebody puts the same amount of effort for the collectivity than for himself and his close family. I thought this had been clearly demonstrated decades ago when comparing east and west
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yes thats why coperatives and mutuals have been a disaster for society.
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co-ops
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I don't know well these things, i speak from a general point of view. A capitalist system doesn't there are no rules or no generosity, it means than the best must be more rewarded than the less efficient, it's like that humanity improved
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Would I be right in thinking that this here bollocktics forum is mainly made up of extremists from both right & left?
Are there any forumites from the centre? Any who sit on the fence when it comes to the crunch? Any who do not have any firm views on anything? Also just to make it easier for me to suss without having to read through every post, can left & right state how extreme they are – 10 EL being blood red communist, 10 ER being jet black fascist. Thank you! |
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extremists is a bit harsh,
frothing foaming at the mouth nutters is the appropriate term. |
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And what can I put you down as flush?
I should have stated that those at the centre should mark themselves N = Neutral with no political leaning, or L = Liberal. |
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slightly to the left of stalin.
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Problem with that is I'm not quite sure if a dictator can be classified as strictly left or right!
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Elastoplast
So what's happening to all the countries that didn't go commie? |
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They were doing all right until they went socialist and started bailing out the banks. Until that time the commies needed binoculars to see them disappearing over the horizon.
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flush
Co-ops and mutuals are voluntary organisations. |
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northernlad
Fascists have far more in common with commies than any other group. |
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For once Intern. I agree with you!
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Private control v Large state control
R v L I am neither right or left or central... I am upwards  |
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Most people on here are neither.
It is plain that changing the rosette colour makes no different when the Financial Elite are calling the tune. When enough people realise it will change. In the interim making sure the 90% squabble amongst each other, while the bank accounts of the few fill up is working well. |
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I would class you as `upwards` Mr E
Welcome |
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As usual, EO refers his poor education on the subject with a man-down-the-pub
analysis. "Communists" and "capitalists" are sort of ideological football teams. He has never really understood the definition of either. I'm not sure why people sound off like this about **** they don't understand. Strictly speaking, communism in the Marxist sense which is what is generally meant by the term, is a prediction. It is inevitable, not a desirable state of affairs people are trying to bring about. You can be a socialist, sure, but not a communist in any practical sense of the word. Did I believe in Marx? No. The basic theory is that wealth concentrates into fewer and fewer hands. Eventually the workers become a critical mass and revolt, leading to socialist revolution, which ultimate results in the withering of the state and the formation of a truly communist state. It didn't seem like this was happening or going to happen in the 80's. It seemed like abstract theory at odds with the actuality of the world, where the working class was actually diminishing and Labour becoming weaker. Now, I'm not so sure. Pretty much everything that has happened since the financial crisis falls in line with Marxist theory. It is very difficult to see what could stop the accelerating divergence between rich and poor, which has been very dramatic in recent years. The 99% will not tolerate the 1% if they can't afford basic necessities. The riots last year were widely blamed on "gangs" and "criminals". Gangs were subsequently proven not to be heavily involved. And, while the activity was criminal , the situation wasn't very different from that of the mob in revoltionary France or Russia. Revolutionaries aren't, by and large, particulary intelligent or respectable in appearance, or even political. They just want things rich people have. I suspect the riots were the first minor tremor in a subsequent full-on revolution. What will follow any revolution, I'm less certain of. |
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the financial elite control democrat and republican, labour and conservative, and
'capitalist' and communist. if a grass roots organisation emerges(like occupy wall street) they will move in, infiltrate it, gain control of it and either run it into a cul de sac, or steer it in the direction that suits them. when big money arrives to 'support' an emerging grass roots movement - you know you are under attack. that is what happened to the emerging 'green movement' any supporter of marxism or eco fascism are actually agents of the financial elite but are too dum to know it |
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Very good Cheese.
And back in the real world the state takes half of a working man's income every year. Furthermore it then borrows to pay out all of this plus more in benefits to the underclass. What level do you think we should go to, to stop this inevitable revolution. Perhaps we can take 90% of income and borrow enough so that the benefit claimants actually have more disposable income than the workers? Now there is an idea. |
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And back in the real world the state takes half of a working man's income every year. Furthermore it then borrows to pay out all of this plus more in benefits to the underclass.
Yes, and to a large extent that is what has prevented revolution, along with exploiting the cheap labour of the third world. You obviously haven't made the connection between that and the fact that young people are increasingly being forced into workfare schemes where they are effectively being paid just over a pound an hour. They aren't getting benefits any more. That is increasingly being applied to the whole workforce. It may be that there is a case for reducing benefits when you have full unemployment and a thriving market. Doing this in a recession is just forcing kids into slavery. I'm not surprised they were rioting-would you work for a pound an hour? I'd rather go to jail. I'd get food, board and probably make more than a pound an hour sowing mailbags. I probably won't get caught anyway due to all the police cuts, and I'll have a nice flatscreen TV. |
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cheese
Just so we know when to really laugh at you instead of the usual chortle can we have a prediction on timescales for this here revolution? |
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tax dodging is a larger problem than benefit claimants.
Since the media corps. are leading the way in shuffling profits overseas; they don't tell the readers that. Better to concentrate on a large family's benefits or Somalians on Housing Benefit; all of the time they can set the people against the people they can line their own pockets. |
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Mister E.
We take in £140 billionish in income tax. We pay our £165 billionish in welfare. This was 2010, so almost certainly now worse. This hardly seems like a non-issue? |
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We take in £140 billionish in income tax. We pay our £165 billionish in welfare
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Java
I was looking at the inverse; what we lose in illegitimate benefit claimants compared to the scale of tax evasion. Of course, I can look it at as much as I like, it will change nothing.  |
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To compare today's Europe with 18th century France or early 20th century Russia must be a joke, revolutions come when people don't have the right to give their opinion through vote and have only violence to make their voice heard. As far as i know, people are free to vote for who they want here, socialists programs are on offer but electors chose to not vote for that, it's simple.
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abolux that is a load of bolux if you take the percentage of voters who voted for alledgedly left wing policy in the last election.
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Labour is not a real socialist party, it's centre-left. Did it really make a big difference the last time they was in charge? I don't think so
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Capatilism or Communism are just ism's. They are idea's. Idea's, that are vehicles for certain types of people.
Whatever "ism" you choose to look at, they are just vehicles for a certain type of person. A person who want's to have control, over, and thereby exploit other people for their own financial gain or self agrandisement. The people who strive to be at the top in an ism, all seem to display the same characteristic's. |
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Jiism.
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Mister E
Are you confusing/conflating evasion and avoidance? |
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baby steps Elastoplast ... first the apostrophes, then the political philosophy.
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Lampus Joined: 02 Jun 03
Replies: 6955 24 Jul 12 06:11 Greedy capitalism lost all the money Communism bailed them out Capitalism takes what is not theirs Gus; 'Slightly to the left of Stalin' 'Its a simple matter of evolution from capitalism to communism' even by the low standards of this dismal talking shop, this thread really is staggeringly idiotic. communism has been the greatest human and environmental catastrophe to be inflicted on mankind. it enslaved, tortured and murdered untold millions as a matter of policy (not as a result of war). add to that the wholesale deportation of yet more millions, the persecution of families of 'enemies of the people', the long sentences of hard labour for 'crimes' such as 'right deviation', 'servility to the west', 'labour desertion' and myriad other grotesqueries. so many parents were bumped off that they introduced the death penalty for the 12 year old children that were orphaned. nice. nobody was ever allowed to leave, and those that tried were shot. every communist country ALWAYS imprisons its people. it produced the greatest decline in living standards ever known, in PEACETIME. life expectancy was pitiful, and there was zero civil society; no clubs with free-association, no trade unions, public gatherings were illegal, and a total media blackout was mercilessly enforced(and still is, in the workers paradise of cuba, to howls of approval from left-wingers who should be ashamed) the secret police were omnipresent, and everybody lived in terror of the late night knock on the door of the horribly overcrowded, crumbling blocks of flats (several families would share one room) as the useless b@stards couldnt build anything properly. nor could they feed themselves despite natural resources and fertile land that if in the hands of the hated 'capitalists' would have produced a bountiful harvest. and i cant be arsed going into the environmental disaster it produced(still is, in china) and i havent started on the useful idiots in the west who were cheerleaders for it, whilst enjoying the comforts of western-style capitalism. i could go on, and welcome anyone who wants to have a go, but i will finish by saying that anyone who describes themselves as 'to the left of stalin' is a offensive wanchor, who knows nothing about the reality of the evil brute. and before you say it was a joke, i can imagine the vitriol that would be poured on anyone who described themselves as 'to the right of hitler' |