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This was from first level, have no info on villian, only third hand of tourney.
Thoughts on his play?
*** History for hand T5-206073387-3 (TOURNAMENT: "ChampionChip $250,000", R-345-136, buy-in: $200) *****
Start hand: Sun Jan 15 17:04:51 GMT 2012
Table: Table #93 [206073387] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 10/20, Chips)
User: DoinGodsWork
Button: seat 7
Players in round: 10
Seat 1: SWARORKY (5050)
Seat 2: GET NICHOLLS (5000)
Seat 3: zwerg. (5080)
Seat 4: mathawker (5000)
Seat 5: nichsu (5000)
Seat 6: silkedu (4960)
Seat 7: DR3AMHACK (4950)
Seat 8: DoinGodsWork (4960)
Seat 9: lassitter11 (5000)
Seat 10: Pa3be5y (5000)
DoinGodsWork posts small blind (10)
lassitter11 posts big blind (20)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to DoinGodsWork: [Jh, Ah]
Pa3be5y folds
SWARORKY folds
GET NICHOLLS folds
zwerg. folds
mathawker folds
nichsu folds
silkedu raises 40 to 40
DR3AMHACK folds
DoinGodsWork raises 130 to 140
lassitter11 folds
silkedu calls 100
--- Dealing flop [7h, Js, 8s]
DoinGodsWork bets 175
silkedu calls 175
--- Dealing turn [2d]
DoinGodsWork bets 330
silkedu calls 330
--- Dealing river [Tc]
DoinGodsWork checks
silkedu bets 4315 [all in]
DoinGodsWork folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: 1310 won by silkedu (1310)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 1: SWARORKY (5050)
Seat 2: GET NICHOLLS (5000)
Seat 3: zwerg. (5080)
Seat 4: mathawker (5000)
Seat 5: nichsu (5000)
Seat 6: silkedu (5625), net: +665, [Ad, Ts] (PAIR TEN)
Seat 7: DR3AMHACK (4950)
Seat 8: DoinGodsWork (4315), net: -645
Seat 9: lassitter11 (4980), net: -20
Seat 10: Pa3be5y (5000)
***** End of hand T5-206073387-3 *****
Thoughts on his play?
*** History for hand T5-206073387-3 (TOURNAMENT: "ChampionChip $250,000", R-345-136, buy-in: $200) *****
Start hand: Sun Jan 15 17:04:51 GMT 2012
Table: Table #93 [206073387] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 10/20, Chips)
User: DoinGodsWork
Button: seat 7
Players in round: 10
Seat 1: SWARORKY (5050)
Seat 2: GET NICHOLLS (5000)
Seat 3: zwerg. (5080)
Seat 4: mathawker (5000)
Seat 5: nichsu (5000)
Seat 6: silkedu (4960)
Seat 7: DR3AMHACK (4950)
Seat 8: DoinGodsWork (4960)
Seat 9: lassitter11 (5000)
Seat 10: Pa3be5y (5000)
DoinGodsWork posts small blind (10)
lassitter11 posts big blind (20)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to DoinGodsWork: [Jh, Ah]
Pa3be5y folds
SWARORKY folds
GET NICHOLLS folds
zwerg. folds
mathawker folds
nichsu folds
silkedu raises 40 to 40
DR3AMHACK folds
DoinGodsWork raises 130 to 140
lassitter11 folds
silkedu calls 100
--- Dealing flop [7h, Js, 8s]
DoinGodsWork bets 175
silkedu calls 175
--- Dealing turn [2d]
DoinGodsWork bets 330
silkedu calls 330
--- Dealing river [Tc]
DoinGodsWork checks
silkedu bets 4315 [all in]
DoinGodsWork folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: 1310 won by silkedu (1310)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 1: SWARORKY (5050)
Seat 2: GET NICHOLLS (5000)
Seat 3: zwerg. (5080)
Seat 4: mathawker (5000)
Seat 5: nichsu (5000)
Seat 6: silkedu (5625), net: +665, [Ad, Ts] (PAIR TEN)
Seat 7: DR3AMHACK (4950)
Seat 8: DoinGodsWork (4315), net: -645
Seat 9: lassitter11 (4980), net: -20
Seat 10: Pa3be5y (5000)
***** End of hand T5-206073387-3 *****
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His scope stats suggest he has satted in and is completely out of his depth.
i think u would of called in yer normal 50/100 buck stt.
Strewth Variance this looks awful
Fold pre
Check turn (at least the pot stays small)and ur in a spot
100% fold river
Fold pre
Check turn (at least the pot stays small)and ur in a spot
100% fold river
Any forumites still in tonight? Im playing for the first time in 3 months and have limped my way to a cash, currently 86/170
p.s. Pre would be fine in position...
I prob check turn innit. His turn/river line/bet sizing determines it from there.
Nice username, but probably means you rot in hell going forward.
I prob check turn innit. His turn/river line/bet sizing determines it from there.
Nice username, but probably means you rot in hell going forward.
Going back to the original hand the villain has bet 4315 to win 1310, so essentially he's betting 7-2 on he gets a fold, in a pot where he assumes Sven can really only hold one hand he can call with, which is 9 9.
That in itself I'm sure the villian could argue was good play, though I'm not convinced his plan all along was to do that when he's called the flop and turn bets with his gutshot.
As has been said already, if you are going to get involved with garbage like A J off you are going to have to expect to have to make tough decisions.
I think he would have re-raised the flop, and certainly the turn bets, with 77 or 88, so when he shoves the river with his massive overbet I would have put him on a busted flush draw, either KQ spades or AQ spades, and reluctantly called.
The thing with these uber aggro Eastern European dudes is that they have satted in for a couple of bucks and are utterly fearless. They want a life changing big win, not to scrape into the money.
Fold pre was sound advice IMHO.
That in itself I'm sure the villian could argue was good play, though I'm not convinced his plan all along was to do that when he's called the flop and turn bets with his gutshot.
As has been said already, if you are going to get involved with garbage like A J off you are going to have to expect to have to make tough decisions.
I think he would have re-raised the flop, and certainly the turn bets, with 77 or 88, so when he shoves the river with his massive overbet I would have put him on a busted flush draw, either KQ spades or AQ spades, and reluctantly called.
The thing with these uber aggro Eastern European dudes is that they have satted in for a couple of bucks and are utterly fearless. They want a life changing big win, not to scrape into the money.
Fold pre was sound advice IMHO.
Its suited chip unless I need my eyes tested so fold oop but I don't mind it in pos pre.
The problem is he literally could have anything from the above mentioned busted flush draw through to AA played horrendously.
We know the lower stake players in MTT's on here play like lemmings which is why there are so many bad beats on here so when they sat into the bigger tourneys they are going to play exactly the same way. They become either easy double ups or early exits for you with bizarre hands, like when one 5 bet me all in for a 20k pot in this with blinds of 50/100 with 55 v my AA and the proverbial 5 on the river.
Personally I put him on A9 spades but as I said he literally could have anything!
We know the lower stake players in MTT's on here play like lemmings which is why there are so many bad beats on here so when they sat into the bigger tourneys they are going to play exactly the same way. They become either easy double ups or early exits for you with bizarre hands, like when one 5 bet me all in for a 20k pot in this with blinds of 50/100 with 55 v my AA and the proverbial 5 on the river.
Personally I put him on A9 spades but as I said he literally could have anything!
Sorry, my bad, it is ace jack suited, which I still fold. I dont like any of those sort of hands ( AQ, AJ, KJ ) and when coaching kids starting out I advise them to bin them in the early stages of STTS/MTTS, especially if there has already been a raise, though admittedly a small one.
I much prefer playing small pairs and hands like 45 suited or 56 suited from position, as you generally know where you are with them post flop, and they are really easy to get away from.
Obviously Sven knows what he is doing, and has probably forgotten more than I know about poker,so he is obviously more comfortable playing hands like AJ.
Be interested to hear his reasons for the smallish flop bet, then betting the turn but checking on the river.
I much prefer playing small pairs and hands like 45 suited or 56 suited from position, as you generally know where you are with them post flop, and they are really easy to get away from.
Obviously Sven knows what he is doing, and has probably forgotten more than I know about poker,so he is obviously more comfortable playing hands like AJ.
Be interested to hear his reasons for the smallish flop bet, then betting the turn but checking on the river.
I did used to play AJs more conservatively, but the game has moved on so much in the last couple of years, everyone is much more aggressive.
A single min raise from late position from most opponents is a pretty big range. I think playing AJs out of position is still a strong enough to continue here. Of course folding is fine as you dont get yourself in these difficult positions. I probably call 50% of the time and raise 50% of the time here.
I personally think playing supertight waiting for the fish to donk you a stack will soon not make you any profit, certainly in the mid/higher buyins anyway.
I check the river in this hand to let my opponent bluff a missed draw, I didnt expect the allin overbet. I dont think my opponent understood what he was doing as in later hands he continued to bluff in some bad spots. I tend to find the overbet shove is rarley a bluff at the stakes I play and this is why I folded.
I actually think this kind of bluff can be profitable, and was in this hand as I don't think I would have called without a 9 which is a very small part of my range.
A single min raise from late position from most opponents is a pretty big range. I think playing AJs out of position is still a strong enough to continue here. Of course folding is fine as you dont get yourself in these difficult positions. I probably call 50% of the time and raise 50% of the time here.
I personally think playing supertight waiting for the fish to donk you a stack will soon not make you any profit, certainly in the mid/higher buyins anyway.
I check the river in this hand to let my opponent bluff a missed draw, I didnt expect the allin overbet. I dont think my opponent understood what he was doing as in later hands he continued to bluff in some bad spots. I tend to find the overbet shove is rarley a bluff at the stakes I play and this is why I folded.
I actually think this kind of bluff can be profitable, and was in this hand as I don't think I would have called without a 9 which is a very small part of my range.
Yeah, like I said, this guys average buyin is $4, and he got into the game via a satelitte, so his play is going to be somewhat different to a guy who plays high stakes all the time.
The overbet shove at the lower stakes will nearly always be a missed draw.
You say you like to play AJ agressively, but on the flop with top pair , top kicker, you bet 175 into a pot of 300, and on the turn bet 330 into a pot of 650.
Are these weak looking bets regularly used at higher stakes to represent strength, because to a low stakes reg, they look to be standard continuation bets from someone with perhaps 2 overcards, which also give the villian the correct odds to call with a draw ?
I normally put a blocker bet in on the river in your position of around 450, which is intended to look like a thin value bet. Presumably this doesnt work in the higher stakes games ?
The overbet shove at the lower stakes will nearly always be a missed draw.
You say you like to play AJ agressively, but on the flop with top pair , top kicker, you bet 175 into a pot of 300, and on the turn bet 330 into a pot of 650.
Are these weak looking bets regularly used at higher stakes to represent strength, because to a low stakes reg, they look to be standard continuation bets from someone with perhaps 2 overcards, which also give the villian the correct odds to call with a draw ?
I normally put a blocker bet in on the river in your position of around 450, which is intended to look like a thin value bet. Presumably this doesnt work in the higher stakes games ?
Thats interesting that you say that at lower stakes thats often a missed draw. Maybe I will play a few hours at lower stakes to get a better feel for the play.
Think my bet sizing is pretty standard, some regs even go for 40% cont bets and sometimes less on uncoordinated flops. He still needs 25% to be calling turn.
Blocker bets can work, but they are often intepreted as that as well and so you can be bluff raised.
Think my bet sizing is pretty standard, some regs even go for 40% cont bets and sometimes less on uncoordinated flops. He still needs 25% to be calling turn.
Blocker bets can work, but they are often intepreted as that as well and so you can be bluff raised.
It all looks fine to me. Aftertiming makes we want to bet 600 on the river, but really you played it fine. Bet sizing looks about right to me, though I'd probably bet a bit more on the turn.
The raise pre looks fairly standard too.
The raise pre looks fairly standard too.
Plenty of evidence on this thread from the 20$ games that the bizarre shove is almost always a desperate attempt to force a fold, rather than someone overbetting for value :
http://community.betfair.com/poker/go/thread/view/94146/28770557/exceptional-reading-skills-part-one
http://community.betfair.com/poker/go/thread/view/94146/28770557/exceptional-reading-skills-part-one
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