How bad does this look ?

Easy to get suspicious but normally these things are nothing more sinister than bad play.

Easy call imo, did he time out or was it a quick fold?

You're wary of cheaters in D2N's so why did you play it?

I personally never worry about colluders as it takes 2 good colluders to cheat out 1 good player. I had (have) an 11% ROI on D2N's on 6 seaters on the Entraction network. I also started my bankoll on Stars playing D2N's so their exploitable even if you get the odd colluder.

If you're worried then contact support and report them.

Here's your answer:

Solovat             178    -$1      $10      -3%    -$162      -    53    Ongame        x

Yeah, think I'd need more evidence before I decided he was anything other than a donk.

It's either collusion, or utterly shyte play all round. Everything about it stinks, the initial bet, the re-raise, the check on the flop, the fold on the blank turn card.

Why re-raise to 1000 if you aren't going to bet out on the flop with the stacks the way they are ? What hand can you be re-raising with pre that you fold when a 4 comes on the turn ? Seriously, name one hand he could have that he folds ?

I shove on him 2 hands later with AK and he calls with 7-4 off, and loses.

I play them because I make money playing them, I cash in this game for instance, I just thought it was a particularly interesting hand.

As for the suggestion I report people and anything would happen...

As you said, you make money playing them, just count collusion as an added form of rake, if you can beat it then play it.

Played 7, won 6 lost 1. Average tournament lasts 20 mins.

Thanks Chip, rake machines for the site but good if you're on rakeback :)

On a 30% rake deal then you have to have a 55% strike rate to break even. A long term win rate of circa 62% in the 6 seater games is possible for a good player, and provides solid, if incredibly unspectacular profit.

What will kill these games, as happened previously, will be the arrival en masse of good colluders i.e. players who are already good players, who have tracking software that can pinpoint your shoving and calling ranges within a month, and who have the benefit of seeing another players hole cards.

As has been stated the above play was probably just madness, but it is precisely the sort of thing people should be wary of.

If I'm a good player why would I want to collude with someone who I consider to be inferior to me and give them a share of my spoils? It doesn't make sense to me (but neither again does staking) The more you worry about collusion (and bots), the more it will affect your game. For many of your opponents you can't justify their play - they will chase a flush draw with one low suited card in their hand and chase JTo with 5 others in the pot. Let them hit their miracles once in a while and they are happy. You concentrate on winning the game.

I went busto for the first time on Betfair a few weeks ago and haven't played the site. With only a couple of pennies remaining I played these D2N's last night and now have $29. Let's see if I can get to serious money again. Current form is played 8, won 6 lost 2, both losses were getting my chips in ahead (although I did check raise a hand which I maybe should have shoved.)

BTW I'm sure you have loads of notes on your opponents but for anyone starting out in these games (or regular STT's) if you click on the "players" tab when registering and keep it open as you play your game, you can see who is registering for the next games that start after yours. Keep an eye on the players joining these and you will quickly identify the multi tablers who play these. You can then exploit their play as they will generally be playing ABC and not paying attention. You can also use your 5 free searches on Sharkscope on these players and identify if they are a winning play, you can then work out there game with this information.

Two years ago I was asked if I wanted to join a D2N team. It would have meant living and playing abroad with someone elses money for a daily wage.

What are the benefits to those running poker schools ; they are many fold. You register your accounts to get maximum sign up bonus and rakeback, then get your players to work in shifts playing the accounts. Once the sign up bonus is cleared, you simply re-register another user name.

The combination of leaderboard payments,rakeback and sign up bonus means you could actually run these accounts at 50% in D2N and make a decent profit. If your team is made up entirely of players capable or multitabling to a 7%+ roi, it makes you pretty formidable.

As me and gnash discovered, making notes is a bit pointless with players who are account sharing.

Obviously if you are playing low stakes games it isn't something you need to worry about, but as you move up the stakes you need to recognise that there are games it is seriously ev- to play in.

I've played 16 and won 11, two of my losses were to the same donk that played everything and called with worse so I'm not worried. I'll see if I can build a bankroll again with these.

You say not to worry about low stakes colluders and I feel you're right but as a point, you played 1x $20 D2N, if I bankroll correct I would rather 4 table x $5 games? Does that make sense? Your opponents will generally (but not always) be worse, there is less likely to be colluders and variance will kick in? I don't want to be in games where it's -ev imo.

I think you have to play at the highest stakes you can comfortably win at within your bankroll.

I know I can post a positive ROI at $50 and $60 levels, but I couldn't withstand a long losing run at those stakes, so I stick with the 20$ games.

And yes you get long losing runs playing D2N , even at the lower stakes, because bad beats happen, as this wretched fker just proved :


TEXAS_HOLDEM, NO_LIMIT, T5-195189915-7
played at "Table #1" for USD TC from 2011-11-27 13:26 until 2011-11-27 13:28



Seat 1: wtsskillpro (1,490 in chips) 
Seat 2: samuel0308 (1,290 in chips) 
Seat 3: LaOr (2,150 in chips) 
Seat 4: chipfire227 (1,545 in chips) 
Seat 5: satakoo (1,495 in chips) 
Seat 6: Dr. Klenk (1,455 in chips) 
Seat 7: xxtwofacexxx (1,440 in chips) 
Seat 8: strategic12 (1,500 in chips) 
Seat 9: jive80 (1,785 in chips) 
Seat 10: Sod0m (850 in chips) 



ANTES/BLINDS
xxtwofacexxx posts small blind (15), strategic12 posts big blind (30),

PRE-FLOP
jive80 folds, Sod0m folds, wtsskillpro folds, samuel0308 folds, LaOr calls 30, chipfire227 raises to 150, satakoo folds, Dr. Klenk folds, xxtwofacexxx folds, strategic12 folds, LaOr calls 150.

FLOP [board cards: JS,AS,QD ]
LaOr bets 210, chipfire227 raises to 1,395 and is all-in, LaOr calls 1,395.

TURN [board cards: JS,AS,QD,QS ]


RIVER [board cards: JS,AS,QD,QS,QC ]


SHOWDOWN
chipfire227 shows [ AH,KD ]
LaOr shows [ QH,8S ]
LaOr wins 3,135.

Sorry, dunno why I posted that, it isn't even a D2N.

I had 11 losing run on Stars STT's recently when I was regularly cashing on the STT leaderboard, I know it happens. I'd rather 4 or 6 table lower stakes than 1 table now. My ROI doesn't suffer much and I throw a higher stakes game into the mix and bankroll that way rather than follow strict rules.

I'm not going broke on that hand Chip ^^^ unless I've read the hand incorrectly (I'm useless at hand histories unless I see them)

Well I've got AK and I re-raise  all in on an A Q J flop containing 2 spades, and he calls with q 8 off.

He's put 360 into the pot before deciding to call for another 1200, knowing he's miles behind, with middle pair, no kicker, and no draw.


I love his call, I just didn't love the 2 queens left in the pack coming on the turn and the river.

I'm rasing less pre which means the flop bet is less, the flush and straight draws are scary to me. I'd lead out with a pot bet on flop but am coolering if he calls or reraises. The blinds are low, you don't need to go broke with AKo here.

iplay it same way as chip.esp as hes donk lead into me after the flop.

Nah, this is a standard STT, you can see from the chip stacks he has been playing pretty much every hand, so you can't put him on anything decent.

Limp call pre means he has probably got ace rag, a small pair, or any 2 suited. The 3/4 pot sized bet on the flop means he has either caught a bit of it, or is on a draw, so why give him good odds to play the rest of the hand. The only hand he can have I'm struggling to beat is K 10 suited and he probably checks that expecting me to fire out a continuation bet.

I've got it all in miles ahead post flop against a bloke with 5 outs, you can't play it much better than that, his call is just the icing on the cake.

Oh, and you cant lead out post flop when the other player is first to act. He has already bet, if he is on a draw like you say,stick it in and give him the wrong odds to call and hope he makes a mistake and calls.

Blind structure here is shyte, it means for more gambling and earlier in a tournament.

I still don't think this is a cause to get your chips in. There are so many hands that dominate you that a donk would play forgetting about the draws. You don't know what he has before the hand ends so you can't comment on his play.

As a STT strategy I fell it could be a fold imo.

I play my big hands aggressively in standard STTS on Betfair.

You state :

"There are so many hands that dominate you that a donk would play"

when there are in fact 2, king ten, and queen jack.

He wont be limp calling with AA, QQ, AQ, and AJ, and I very much doubt he would lead out with the nuts, which only leaves you  Q J to worry about, and even if he has that, you have 9 outs on the turn, and in all probability 10 on the river.

If you are folding AK to his measley bet there on a A Q J flop in a turbo STT, you might as well quit the game.