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I was just playing in a SNG. First hand into the tourney, before any showdown, one of the opponents hole cards was apparently revealed to me (QD). I immediately took a screen shot. I have tried 3 times to upload this so I can show it on the forum but it keeps disappearing, I guess because someone at betfair will not approve the picture.
If they won't let me show it here I will put it up at 2plus2 where it will get a much wider audience. I don't know if the card I saw was what the guy had or not since the hand did not go to showdown. Possibly it was just some artefact of the graphics but deserves further investigation. Needless to say I do not use any HUD or anything like that.
Here is the relevant hand history:
ewa84 was the player who's card I saw.
***** History for hand T5-185252931-1 (TOURNAMENT: "NL Hold'em", S-2202-119126, buy-in: $3.30) *****
Start hand: Thu Oct 20 19:10:03 BST 2011
Table: Table #1 [185252931] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 10/20, Chips)
User: wykh2
Button: seat 5
Players in round: 5
Seat 1: unlucky 69 (1500)
Seat 4: wykh2 (1500)
Seat 5: Pelageja (1500)
Seat 7: Paybah (1500)
Seat 9: ewa84 (1500)
Paybah posts small blind (10)
ewa84 posts big blind (20)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to wykh2: [Kh, Jc]
unlucky 69 calls 20
wykh2 calls 20
Pelageja raises 120 to 120
Paybah folds
ewa84 calls 100
unlucky 69 folds
wykh2 folds
--- Dealing flop [Kd, 5h, 5d]
ewa84 bets 20
Pelageja raises 150 to 150
ewa84 folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: 330 won by Pelageja (330)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 1: unlucky 69 (1480), net: -20
Seat 4: wykh2 (1480), net: -20
Seat 5: Pelageja (1690), net: +190
Seat 7: Paybah (1490), net: -10
Seat 9: ewa84 (1360), net: -140
***** End of hand T5-185252931-1 *****
If they won't let me show it here I will put it up at 2plus2 where it will get a much wider audience. I don't know if the card I saw was what the guy had or not since the hand did not go to showdown. Possibly it was just some artefact of the graphics but deserves further investigation. Needless to say I do not use any HUD or anything like that.
Here is the relevant hand history:
ewa84 was the player who's card I saw.
***** History for hand T5-185252931-1 (TOURNAMENT: "NL Hold'em", S-2202-119126, buy-in: $3.30) *****
Start hand: Thu Oct 20 19:10:03 BST 2011
Table: Table #1 [185252931] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 10/20, Chips)
User: wykh2
Button: seat 5
Players in round: 5
Seat 1: unlucky 69 (1500)
Seat 4: wykh2 (1500)
Seat 5: Pelageja (1500)
Seat 7: Paybah (1500)
Seat 9: ewa84 (1500)
Paybah posts small blind (10)
ewa84 posts big blind (20)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to wykh2: [Kh, Jc]
unlucky 69 calls 20
wykh2 calls 20
Pelageja raises 120 to 120
Paybah folds
ewa84 calls 100
unlucky 69 folds
wykh2 folds
--- Dealing flop [Kd, 5h, 5d]
ewa84 bets 20
Pelageja raises 150 to 150
ewa84 folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: 330 won by Pelageja (330)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 1: unlucky 69 (1480), net: -20
Seat 4: wykh2 (1480), net: -20
Seat 5: Pelageja (1690), net: +190
Seat 7: Paybah (1490), net: -10
Seat 9: ewa84 (1360), net: -140
***** End of hand T5-185252931-1 *****
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Replies: 28
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Please email me a copy :)
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OK will do.
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Thats some scary s**t mate!
I have seen / had cards "stick" when i've moved tables. Basically a guy who came to showdown, had his cards (J8) face up at showdown when all of a sudden we moved to the FT. At the FT, his J8 was still showing and a new hand got dealt, but he was not involved in the first hand on the FT at all (due to whee the button was), and when the next hand was dealt, all things went back to normal. Im ultra curious as to how or why the Q of diamonds was showing but my guess is, the Q of Diamonds was the card he was dealt when a STT start up and it dishes out a single card to determine the first dealer. |
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It is sent to you now, and I have also sent a copy to the help desk to see if they can come up with any explanation. I do think most likely it is just some artefact of the graphics, although it cannot be left over from the previous hand because this was the first hand played in the tourney.
I will give them some time to respond before I put it up at 2plus2. |
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i was guessing it was the left over card from the 'decide who is the dealer' draw before a tourney starts.
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I will give them some time to respond before I put it up at 2plus2.
why???? what do you think will happen if you put it on 2+2? are you actually threatening BF with something here? |
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Ah ok I guess that could be the explanation, I had forgotten that a single card is dealt to determine dealer at the start. I can't remember if that was the card he had in the pregame deal, but I expect it probably was. I have never had that phenomenon occur before on my laptop.
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This just back from the help desk:
We have now raised this issue to the immediate attention of our Technical department for further review. We thank you for your quick thinking, and patience in sending us the screenshot as this will help us greatly in confirming the cause of this issue. In the interim, we hope that you have not been further interrupted, should you be however we look forward to your reply. |
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Please can you send me the screenshot to prteam@betfair.com
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Ok done
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And post it to imageshack.us so we can all see
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Here it is. Probably the post will be deleted though.
http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a446/wykhamist/cards.jpg |
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I'd agree with what the Klup said, I vaguely remember something similar happening to me. I'd be interested in BF's reply.
On a more serious point....did you fold, call or reraise with your KJo :) |
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You can see the HH above. I folded. Would have made top pair on the flop but KJ is not good enough for me to call such a big raise preflop so early in a SNG. Of course I was morally obliged to fold anyway since I thought I was seeing one of the opponents cards.
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His bet on the flop indicates to me he's missed it (150 into a 270 pot if my maths is correct) so he could have been holding AQo. A 6x over raise pre could have been anything from AQo to 99 to 33 to 54s, unless you had notes on him you won't know. If you had the rest of his hands in the tournament you could maybe work out his range.
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Ignore, I was thinking Pelaga had the Q. I can't feckin read hand histories unless I see them in play.
Was Pelaga tight? How soon was he out? To a 150 raise would he have folded AQ? Most at low stakes won't to a bet this size, nor with KQ or any pocket pair. |
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* ewa84 tight.
You could go through some of his hand histories if you have them stored. As I said you could work out his range. You can definitely rule out QQ :) |
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Pelageja did the same thing again a few hands later, and was reraised by ewa84. Pelageja then reraised all in and was called, showing JJ vs ewa84's Tc5c. Two tens came down on the flop in classic ongame tradition and ewa84 won.
Pelageja was down to 870 chips and a few hands later I made a 4x raise from the SB with 22 and he shoved with AK. I called and he failed to hit so was out. I also knocked out ewa84 a bit later. He raised with AQ and I put him all in with 55. We both hit on the flop so my set beat his pair of aces. Paybah knocked out unlucky69 by calling a pot raise with a flush draw post turn and making a flush so it was just me and paybah left. I finally lost shoving with 88 vs A8, pretty much standard for me recently since I am running 2SD's below EV for the last 5 weeks. |
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This just in from Betfair:
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you and thank you for bringing this to our attention. We have investigated this thoroughly today and can confirm that what happened was a very rare but known Ongame bug. We have had a few isolated incidents similar to this over the last few months across the entire network. It is only by reporting these issues that we can identify and fix them to a satisfactory conclusion. This very unusual bug is due to be fixed in the next release in November. The card you witnessed (Qd) was a rogue card and was not actually held by your opponent. We would like to apologise for this incident and hope it does not affect your overall gaming experience with us in the future. |
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ewa84 73 -$8 $10 -63% -$551 - 51 Ongame x
Steady downward graph (nice and smooth) Unfortunately this doesn't help as you can now assume he's raising any 2. |
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There a whole army of them who simply play any 2 suited cards, they will raise, shove, call with them regardless.It happens in 3 dollar games, but it also happens in 30 dollar games. Ive played 4 games tonight and gone out shoving with jj vs k8 suited, ak vs a5 suited,and 10 10 vs j 9 suited in the first three.How people call with those hands I do not know. My final game I lose half my stack calling a shove from the table maniac who has 8 5 suited versus my 77 , and Im finally axed shoving for 6bbs with 10 9 and getting called by a guy with 9 5 suited.
I scope him and his stats are : TheMadMan17_ 137 -$19 $49 -26% -$2,564 Super Tilt 61 so I'm probably the only player in history to lose to this guy. The table maniacs stats are : jkarsta 5,961 -$2 $9 -15% -$11,673 Super Tilt 54 Its incredibly tilting donking off cash to players who seem to lump it in with any 2, suited but you have to tell yourself that these are long term losing players,a fact borne out by the stats, rather than just convincing yrself its all r133ed. |
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Interesting post. Sticky stuff like first card lag and then the known bug explanation.
I'v occasionally thought I've flashed cards that I've got ticked as aways muck. I've had lag cards so that I cannot read what actually dealt. i've presumed just my laptop. As far as any two? I've given up trying to rationalise opponent's plays at any level. Being about 150BB deep an hour after rebuy period and having aces in the big blind it is an easy call when there is a button reshove of 200 BB after a 3BB raise UTG+2 a mini-raise in next position. all folds. Glad to be heads up up against 10 3 os. How? Why? WTF? Oh I lose.  I do not even see the need to put a note saying nutter. My tables would generally be full of them. They are everywhere.  |
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Im down to about 30 STTS a week on Betfair. I just cant make any money playing here, and think the move from 9 seaters to 10 seaters, combined with the move from 5 minute blind levels to 3 minutes, has definitely removed a signifigant amount of the edge that the better players had. There's very little post flop play in these games, and even when I get it in good pre flop, I seem to get outdrawn by the any 2 suited brigade way more than seems reasonable.
I keep thinking I'm due a heater, but it never seems to materialise.  |
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site gets better by the day
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Chipfire227 "and even when I get it in good pre flop, I seem to get outdrawn by the any 2 suited brigade way more than seems reasonable."
Dont worry m8, it's just standard variance, everything is totally above board here, u see them things everyday "I keep thinking I'm due a heater, but it never seems to materialise." Perhaps it might be because ur not a fish, just a wild guess |
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Like I said, the fishy players, may win the battle from time to time, they never though win the war. If someone makes a mathematically awful play against you, assuming they have sufficent gameplay to get an accurate reflection, their scope stats will reveal a losing player.
Essence will help the fish survive a bit longer in cash games,likewise increasing the size of the field, while decreasing the time it takes for each blind level to kick in will reduce the advantage of the better players in stts. But ultimately the good players win in the long term and the bad players lose. Obviously the main beneficary in slowing down the process by which the money passes from the fish to the sharks is the site itself. |
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But ultimately the good players win in the long term and the bad players lose. Obviously the main beneficary in slowing down the process by which the money passes from the fish to the sharks is the site itself.
I speak for STT's only which I play. I've been thinking more and more about ROI and rake. For a low (micro) stakes player they shouldn't be playing on a site with 20% rake. You need to be a 20%+ player to make any profit. You just churn the rake over and over to the site and for the little guy this is a no win situation. Essence is irrelevant to anyone that doesn't come close to 20%. Poker is a big pyramid with the little guys at the bottom, they in turn feed higher stakes. Punish the little guys with 20% rake and the site will collapse. Shame on Betfair and Ongaming but that's why other sites are flourishing with high stakes players. |
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I've had this happen in 1/2 F Limit Head up opponent was showing Jc, except it didn't stay showed like the screen shot it just showed it for 2-3 secs before the flop, anyhow I can't remember my starting hand but we both checked until the river, I had missed but however I called his river bet and sure enough he had rivered his Jack,
I didn't bother to post this until I read this as I new people would have a go at me, I must admit this is the only time this has happened on Betfair/Ongame. |