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DuffsDefenceLeague
08 Oct 10 12:41
Joined:
Date Joined: 08 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 3,164 | Blogger: DuffsDefenceLeague's blog
Ok 2 sides to every story.  Fire away and I'll answer as honestlt as I can.
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Report dibble October 17, 2010 1:38 PM BST
again - it's not for mandy to judge what's right for the job. he has a responsibility to do what is asked of him by his employer. it's entirely up to his employer how much money to offer. if it's too much then the business suffers... and then the business has to act.

it's no-one's responsibility but the business whether what is paid is the right market rate for the job.
Report Mandylou October 17, 2010 2:53 PM BST
bear in mind that there were non - managerial staff employed in receipt of £8 per hour who worked no later than 11pm and dealers employed who could average £12 per hour on cash and guaranteed £8 per hour anyway
Report akabula October 17, 2010 3:56 PM BST
A manager of a decent betting shop will be on a salary not far short of that and with none of the responsibilities that Mandylou describes.
Crazy tho that no real business plan appears to have been put together. I would have thought that a weekly target of membership would have been in place along with a 6 month/year/2years master plan.
Report canaryboy October 17, 2010 3:56 PM BST
retail jobs are utter rape
Report FlipFlop1 October 18, 2010 8:03 AM BST
Imo the employer pay's what he/she think's is value for their money. So a employee does the same ie goes for a said job which he/she is value for their time and effort.
Report DuffsDefenceLeague October 18, 2010 1:17 PM BST
A few more details are needed before a proper answer can be given :-

complete accounting and cash handling for the whole club
How much time was spent doing this? What was involved ?

updating of daily poker room records  , league ,results etc
updating website with results
Basic admin task - minimum wage

acting as part time barman/bouncer/cleaner/plumber and general dogsbody
Again minimum wage. Any monkey could do it.

providing over £9k of interest free
Dont think this qualifies as a work related task. Did you get repaid?

working out rotas for dealers
paying all staff
Yet again basic minimum wage stuff. 

propping and starting cash tables to generate rake 
Presumably, as you were being paid to do this, you were playing with club money and all profits made were returned to the club? 

Club photographer (providing equipment as well)
i.e. pointing a digital camera at someone and pressing a button. Real tough job!

Dealing when needed
£8 an hour before tax plus tips. So whilst you were doing this you were actually being overpaid.

all hours to cover between 7pm - 4am on a weekday and 12noon-4 am sat/sun (not all those hours obviously)

bear in mind that there were non - managerial staff employed in receipt of £8 per hour who worked no later than 11pm and dealers employed who could average £12 per hour on cash and guaranteed £8 per hour anyway

So I would say your worth to the club was around £250 PER WEEK (before tax obviously).
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 2:21 PM BST
so what you are suggesting is that despite paying receptionists £8 per hour who` duties were mainly

answering telephones
signing in members
sending out e mails
various other admin

you propose to pay your 2nd in command and in a managerial position  £4.46 per hour (£250 / average working week of 56 hours)

is there any wonder you are in the position you are in if that is your business acumen
Report canaryboy October 18, 2010 2:23 PM BST
working out rotas for dealers
paying all staff
Yet again basic minimum wage stuff


no chance LOL
Report DuffsDefenceLeague October 18, 2010 3:15 PM BST
I think you're confusing working week with hours spent at the club.

As DUFFS has previously stated you were ineffectual as a manager. You've now listed various duties to justify the fact that you think you were worth £650 tax free per week. 90% of these duties fall within the scope of what someone earning minimum wage would do.

As '2nd in command' you should have been more active in promoting the business and pulling in the punters.  It's no good continually just answering the bits you want to answer. If you want to start slinging mud be prepared for some to be slung back at you.

You've admitted that you lost a breach of contract case because you didn't return details of customer base/equipment to somebody you had signed an agreement with. You then set up a rival company in your wifes name to steal their business (sound familiar?)

p.s. I've put DUFFS in bold blocks so you grasp the concept that this is not Tony - he's already posted his comments and does not have time to frequent forums telling tales.

p.p.s. - Good luck with the tax man
Report dibble October 18, 2010 3:24 PM BST
i don't think that duffsdefenceleague really understands employment law very well lol
Report DuffsDefenceLeague October 18, 2010 3:36 PM BST
Not quite sure what you mean dibble. Which part of employment law are you refering to please ?
Report chipfire227 October 18, 2010 3:55 PM BST
i think you  mean  ineffective.
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 4:03 PM BST
DuffsDefenceLeague Joined: 08 Oct 10
Replies: 11 18 Oct 10 15:15   
I think you're confusing working week with hours spent at the club. not confusing but thats pretty much how people in the real world work - IE they get paid for the time they spend there

As DUFFS has previously stated you were ineffectual as a manager. You've now listed various duties to justify the fact that you think you were worth £650 tax free per week. 90% of these duties fall within the scope of what someone earning minimum wage would do.as a few have pointed out people earning min wage are not expected to do these duties , an if i was inneffectual as a manager why wasnt i sacked - how come i have only been inneffectual since the club closed and blame is needed to try and deflect from his failings and if i was so bad why was the position of manager at another club even considered

As '2nd in command' you should have been more active in promoting the business and pulling in the punters.  It's no good continually just answering the bits you want to answer. If you want to start slinging mud be prepared for some to be slung back at you. i havent actually slung any mud yet  , would you like me to start letting everyone know the information i have ? and if the best you can do is inform everyone of details of a previous business from 5 years ago then i pity you

You've admitted that you lost a breach of contract case because you didn't return details of customer base/equipment to somebody you had signed an agreement with. You then set up a rival company in your wifes name to steal their business (sound familiar?)not actually true (once again) i lost the breach because i couldent afford a decent defence and they wiped the floor with me , however they knew i would go bankrupt and their actions were done more as a threat  to future franchisees that any benefit they would gain from me , as regards the new club then it has only been set up after Duffs went bust so not really the same is it

p.s. I've put DUFFS in bold blocks so you grasp the concept that this is not Tony - he's already posted his comments and does not have time to frequent forums telling tales.pretty informed about me if it isnt DUFFS , care to reveal yourself then ?

p.p.s. - Good luck with the tax man  Thanks but not needed , wish Tony the same good luck and also extend it to cover his impending dealings with the police , fraud squad ,insolvency practice and others chasing him
Report BlufDaddy October 18, 2010 4:08 PM BST
Since DDL is making allegations of tax evasion and claiming not to be Duffs, I'm interested in a couple of the legal points of what are being said on here.  I have no legal training of qualifications but I believe Dibble does and can comment?

Firstly, was Carl an employee of the club or were the services of Carl's company contracted to perform management duties?  If Carl was an employee and he was being paid cash in hand on a free of tax basis then can the club demonstrate that they made all tax and NI payments on Carl's behalf?

Secondly, has DDL revealed any privvy knowledge about Carl's contract in this thread in breach of the Data Protection Act?  If he isn't Duffs, how has he come about this knowledge?

I'm not interested in taking sides but given the nature of some of the allegations, it seems to me that both should request the thread be deleted and not comment any further.
Report akabula October 18, 2010 4:09 PM BST
Unbelievable - arguments against Mandylou are basically that he was ineffective and overpaid - so why was nothing done about it or was this just decided after the business was closed. If I had been sitting with my boss defending my poor performance by blaming it on my staff the first question he would have asked was "what have you done about it"
Report DuffsDefenceLeague October 18, 2010 4:15 PM BST
The business isn't closed. The Waterlooville branch is shut.

And please check back and see who actually first started slinging mud on a public forum - it certainly wasn't Tony.
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 4:22 PM BST
i am a bit unsure why the worry

surely if I am so useless at my job and a massive drain
the club is in the wrong place
competition from local casinos and big slick is a big factor
club overheads are massive
not enough punters

compared with
lovely ,fun cardrooms at basingstoke and stubbington
superior staff at both locations
no overheads at both locations

Then the new club isnt going to much competition is it ?
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 4:49 PM BST
couple of good questions there Bluff - over to DDL
Report dibble October 18, 2010 5:18 PM BST
hey bluf.

I've some basic legal training but nothing too sophisticated. I believe that IR35 is the key piece of legislation/HMRC Guidance and suspect that the outcome of any review would be very clear. I won't bore the forum with the detail but I'm sure you're familiar with it.

that's basically what I was referring to
Report DuffsDefenceLeague October 18, 2010 5:21 PM BST
Carl, Tony has already explained why he stuck with you. It was out of a sense of loyalty and he was aware that you had relocated your family down. This is more than most employers would do and I think you should thank him for that.

Unfortunately things didn't work out and you have chosen the Betfair forum to air your dirty washing.
Report BlufDaddy October 18, 2010 5:31 PM BST
Yeah, IR35 refers to contractors.  In terms of the tax liability in this thread, I believe it's an important distinction whether Carl was an employee of the club or "Carl Ltd" was contracted by the club.

Not that I'm trying to muddy the waters but if the club was paying Carl cash in hand rather than "Carl Ltd" then they may not want to be too vocal on the tax issue.
Report DuffsDefenceLeague October 18, 2010 5:36 PM BST
I think Mandylou has already clarified in this thread that he was responsible for  "complete accounting and cash handling for the whole club"
Report BlufDaddy October 18, 2010 5:47 PM BST
Whoever employed him (or his services) was responsible for the terms of his contract with the club, and therefore whether he was an employee or a contractor.
Report dibble October 18, 2010 6:10 PM BST
it does bluf but ir35 covers that situation too. just running a ltd company and having a business to business contract gives no explicit protection from being assessed as an employee by the HMRC. I'm very clear on this as it's something I deal with day to day for my own business and my employees.

the issue is that companies will try and avoid their paye and employers NI by claiming all their workers are contractors. the revenue will basically ignore any contracts (even with ltd companies) and look instead at the nature of the work that's being done and the contract (whether or not it's a contract for services from a company or an explicit employment contract).
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 6:18 PM BST
DuffsDefenceLeague Joined: 08 Oct 10
Replies: 14 18 Oct 10 17:36   
I think Mandylou has already clarified in this thread that he was responsible for  "complete accounting and cash handling for the whole club"

as in counting previous nights takings , making sure they tallied
taking all money from competitons in the poker room and accounting for that

all being done before being handed over to Tony

i also then physically counted out the cash and put it into wage envelopes after receiving instructions of every employees wages that was due
Report BlufDaddy October 18, 2010 6:26 PM BST
Ah ok dibs, that's the point I was getting at - in the absence of a contract the employer claims the individual was a contractor whereas the employee claims they were an employee paid on a "free of tax" basis.

I employee freelancers from time to time but always do so on a fixed fee contractor basis, so they just give me an invoice and I pay it.  They're responsible for their own tax
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 6:29 PM BST
i would love to be a fly on the wall should Tony ever decide to contact the taxman about financial affairs resulting from duffs full house
Report dibble October 18, 2010 6:37 PM BST
that's fine bluf: essentially if you do that, you've got an output driven contract which is essentially a clear non-employment situation. I'm assuming you're paying for something delivered as opposed to having them just turn up and work (ie time and materials)?

if you decide to pay them time & materials (or time hire) then you're going to be caught by ir35 and need to understand its implications as you draw up your contract with your contractors.
Report dibble October 18, 2010 6:42 PM BST
one too many "essentially"s there Plain
Report DaVinci I October 18, 2010 6:55 PM BST
Kind of confused by this thread to be honest.

Business goes wrong no-one is happy - Unfortunate but Standard.

I'm sure the Tax Man doesn't read this Forum, but if he did he'd be all over both of you like a ton of bricks - No Question. Why continue? Are you waiting for someone to flag it to the Inland Revenue?

The really sad thing from what I have read is someone has nicked the Charity Money and whoever has done that deserves all the Karma which is coming their way.

I wish you both all the best with your new ventures.
Report joffy October 18, 2010 7:06 PM BST
HM Revenue and Customs would reach a verdict of employed here without a shadow of doubt.
Report dibble October 18, 2010 7:08 PM BST
completely agree Joffy
Report Soap October 18, 2010 7:29 PM BST
Bluff make sure your contracts are less than 13 weeks ongoing - new ridic laws coming out.

Plus bluff is correct - if anyone was getting cash in hand then employer benefits as much as employee NI wise.
Report SirFresh October 18, 2010 7:59 PM BST
What is duffs getting sent down for? (as mandy alluded to earlier in the thread)

I don't really care, I'm just nosey Grin
Report jamesbeckton. October 18, 2010 10:25 PM BST
Club photographer (providing equipment as well)
i.e. pointing a digital camera at someone and pressing a button. Real tough job!


lol. Just slightly naive!
Report Mel Baker's Paddling Pool October 18, 2010 11:07 PM BST
DaVinci I Joined: 26 Oct 04
Replies: 627 18 Oct 10 18:55 
I'm sure the Tax Man doesn't read this Forum

I wouldn't be so sure imo
Report Mandylou October 18, 2010 11:14 PM BST
SirFresh Joined: 12 Oct 10
Replies: 32 18 Oct 10 19:59   
What is duffs getting sent down for? (as mandy alluded to earlier in the thread)

I don't really care, I'm just nosey
 

if you know me e mail me
Report chipfire227 October 18, 2010 11:41 PM BST
mel baker's paddling pool is a great user name imho.
Report Mel Baker's Paddling Pool October 19, 2010 12:33 AM BST
thanks, I thought so too tbh
Report McCoy Carp October 19, 2010 10:42 AM BST
What still doesn't add up here is that it is admitted on both sides that the club was in the wrong place and yet the bar take was £5000 a week? Then you would of had machine money, food money etc. The overheads must have been very high in order not to make things pay? Don't know how many pubs/clubs on Hayling Island but I would think only two (one's a carvery) would take that kind of bar money a week. You must of been free trade. I just can't see how you couldn't make this pay?
Report Mandylou October 19, 2010 11:10 AM BST
i never said the club was in the wrong place- that was tony
sure it could do with a bit more footfall on the high street to generate passing trade  but we had a good build up of customers and members . obviously prime places such as the grosvenor in gun wharfe would be ideal but rent down there is astronomical as im sure you can imagine 
the bar take over the last 10/11 month was above 5k anyway although that included food as well but not machines which obviously was a decent lump as well

The reason it didnt work was the fact that Tony had various loans out , that when he did his initial projections of rapid growth (bar,poker and affilliate side) would have maybe been sustainable
the fact that the projections were way out and no cash pot in reserve or plan B meant that the loans didnt get paid ,this resulted in one of the people successfully pettioning for bankruptcy when it wasnt paid
the fact that Tony had all the clubs licences, leases etc in his name meant that the receiver viewed them as a possible assett and seized them - meaning the club had to close
it was a personal bankruptcy not the club`s
Report McCoy Carp October 19, 2010 11:37 AM BST
Think you mentioned earlier about having an investor and going to re-open. Is this going to happen? Do you need to bother too much about the poker and just have it as a social/sports club?
Report Mandylou October 19, 2010 11:54 AM BST
there is an investor yes and applications are in for licences etc
the plan is to re open similar to what was before with the Bar and other new ideas we have
Report McCoy Carp October 19, 2010 12:35 PM BST
Good luck. Will have to try and get over sometime.
Report Mr Myxlplyx October 19, 2010 12:54 PM BST
frightening thing is...

Mel Baker USED to have an Olympic Sized pool in his garden until the tax man caught up with him Sad

and anyone who wants a shot of my foot spa just give me a shoutCry
Report chipfire227 October 19, 2010 4:17 PM BST
presumably this is mel baker the rotund, ruddy cheeked, monmore greyhound trainer ?
Report Mel Baker's Paddling Pool October 19, 2010 4:44 PM BST
BlushBlush
Report The Leopard October 20, 2010 7:07 PM BST
Nope....nothing new...
Report Horace plays Poker October 22, 2010 6:15 PM BST
Just goes to show you cannot always trust "popular" forumites.

I learnt.
Report dibble October 22, 2010 6:39 PM BST
from whom about what?
Report Horace plays Poker October 22, 2010 6:56 PM BST
Teeth
rakeback deal
Apr paid
still owed May / June
emails ignored
Report Horace plays Poker October 22, 2010 6:59 PM BST
my mistake paid March
owes Apr / May and maybe June can't remember when i stopped donating to him.
Report dibble October 22, 2010 7:31 PM BST
Sad
Report canaryboy October 22, 2010 7:45 PM BST
maybe he was behind on BNP subs
Report The Klup October 22, 2010 7:54 PM BST
horace - how much are you suggesting that teeth owes you?
Report Waheyyyy October 22, 2010 9:06 PM BST
and are you still playing earning him money? [;)]
Report Hull city October 22, 2010 9:24 PM BST
this cant be right Sad - must be an oversight

teeths a good egg - right???!!!
Report Waheyyyy October 22, 2010 9:25 PM BST
I thought so, really don;t think he'd rip anyone off.

Not seen him post on here for ages though. Hope he's ok.

You got his number Klup / know where he is?
Report The Klup October 22, 2010 9:34 PM BST
I dont want to appear to get involved, but my view is that there is nothing in this. I am under the impression that teeth has sold his interest off and is no longer practising. 

I have his number - he was aware of Horace's announcement from months ago (in this forum) and teeth responded back then after i nudged him about the post.

The only reason i asked what horace was claiming - was to see if it was a few bucks, so i could ship it to him to close this case. I like teeth and dont want to see such comments posted chucked around about especially when its a good egg we're talking about.
Report Mandylou October 22, 2010 9:40 PM BST
LOL tell him to join my club
Report Waheyyyy October 22, 2010 9:41 PM BST
Should Horace not have been given the details of whoever Teeth sold his interests to?

Or doesn't it work like that? (I don't know)
Report Dooberama October 22, 2010 9:53 PM BST
Mandylou Joined: 07 Mar 03
Replies: 609 22 Oct 10 21:40   


LOL tell him to join my club
 

You stealing punters from the BNP now?  Bad enough when you were nicking Tony's! Mischief

And waheyyy has hit the nail on the head.  If he has sold up, then it is no longer anything to do with him.  I am pretty sure Horace was told this before.
Report SirFresh October 22, 2010 10:36 PM BST
canary owes me £2.50 from 4 years ago
Report chipfire227 October 22, 2010 10:56 PM BST
klup, my window cleaner, who used to be sponsored by betfair, owes me 4k.

can you square it up cos despite him being a virulent racist they reckon he is a good egg and i  could do with the coin.

i take cheques. Laugh

oh  and could you send  me 100 bucks for the footie shirts from the giveaway betfair have welched on ?

cheers bud, anytime monday is fine.
Report Horace plays Poker October 22, 2010 11:06 PM BST
Klup

can i have your email address?  i'll email you.
Report Systems October 23, 2010 10:11 AM BST
Everyone needs to get a grip and focus on the real story - builder is owed £5!
Report Horace plays Poker October 23, 2010 4:37 PM BST
Mandylou Joined: 07 Mar 03
Replies: 609 22 Oct 10 21:40   


LOL tell him to join my club 

You stealing punters from the BNP now?  Bad enough when you were nicking Tony's!

And waheyyy has hit the nail on the head.  If he has sold up, then it is no longer anything to do with him.  I am pretty sure Horace was told this before.

My contract was direct with Teeth on his say so.  He just ignores my emails - like I said I learned - won't get stung twice.
Report Dealem.... October 23, 2010 7:33 PM BST
If you are using the paul@rakebackpro one, that may have been closed as condition of the sale. i know it was supposed to be closed at some point but wasn't given a date.

I am sure Teeth will give you a contact email address for you to chase up but at a stab i would try "info@rakebackpro.co.uk" or look on the site for contact details.

Explain everything and see what happens.
Report Horace plays Poker October 24, 2010 1:34 PM BST
I have other email addresses - but don't really want to go further on the forum with the details.  What I have said is enough.  I am happy to forward the details by email to one of his friends.  I think I have said enough.
Report Dealem.... October 24, 2010 2:00 PM BST
haha, you are making it sound like an FBI investigation, and it was YOU that brought it to the forum with accusations about his integrity. Paul won't be robbing anyone, this repeated mixup will be due to incorrect sign up procedure or with the master affiliate PAS.

As mentioned earlier he DID tell you he had sold the sites on along with the responsibility in a previous thread but i am sure he still offered help then. I find it hard to believe you have tried that hard to make contact with the correct people regarding your cake.

Of course, it should be running smoothly, but it isn't, from the start it appears. Sign up with another affily, someone like Kulp would be a good choice since you seem to prefer forum contact instead of traditional means, start over and then chase up your monies and wipe your mouth.

Paul is a good guy...
Report The Klup October 24, 2010 2:04 PM BST
^^^^ This!!!


As mentioned earlier he DID tell you he had sold the sites on along with the responsibility in a previous thread but i am sure he still offered help then. I find it hard to believe you have tried that hard to make contact with the correct people regarding your cake.


^^^^
Totally this
Report Dealem.... October 24, 2010 2:13 PM BST
Apart from all of that...
When i see new posts on this thread, open it up and they aren't about the thread title, I am most disappointed lol
Report Horace plays Poker October 24, 2010 3:00 PM BST
FBI?  All I was saying was that I contacted his other email address and did not get a response.  I didnt want to go into too much detail as he said this was seperate to his site and between me and him.  There is another ignored thread.

this is what I await a response to: and I have chased.



Hi

Payment of £x sent which represents all to 03/31/2010. The payment for April and May i cannot work out yet as i am unable to get the stats for it, however, once i have spoken with Martin the guy who now owns the sites i will get it sorted and put you in touch with him too.

Best

Paul
Report oldie October 24, 2010 3:38 PM BST
very sad thread . both were good friends to many on here.
Report ABU AL-HASAN AL-MAWARDI October 26, 2010 9:05 PM BST
Duffs has always been a self obsessed egotistical t0sser. Wearing clothes with your own name on just proves what a ego maniac you are and I am glad you are in the mess you are in. Feel sorry for all others you have taken down with you but hopefully they will bounce back.

I am sure Carl will do a much better job being a nice honest person and a hard worker at that. I wish you all the best in the future mate.

Duffs, suck on my balls I thank you and good night.
Report Mr Snap October 26, 2010 11:55 PM BST
Duffs has always been a self obsessed egotistical t0sser. Wearing clothes with your own name on just proves what a ego maniac you are

Jesus makes you wonder what I am then!!!

Did I ever tell you about the time???

for the record never had anything but good old fashioned decency and friendship from Duffs, same from Carl and both their good ladies

Shame its come to this but more of a shame is the people not involved taking cheap shots
Report ABU AL-HASAN AL-MAWARDI October 27, 2010 10:26 AM BST
Duffs is vile! His business goes t1ts up so looks for someone to blame so blames Carl for being overpaid and underworked lol. Blame should always fall at the top Duffs you idiot.

Its not good enough that you lie to Carl and he sells his business but then you dont get your own way so you start threatening him with the tax man and stuff, you dirty horrible rat. Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and think of what you have become.

DDL is 100% duffs, its not the first time duffs has had a forum account and posted in 3rd person. Grow some balls and just admit it is you. Stick to running home games you absolute joke
Report engy-carlisle October 27, 2010 12:49 PM BST
hiya punterz :)
Report ABU AL-HASAN AL-MAWARDI October 27, 2010 12:50 PM BST
Afraid not guess again
Report ABU AL-HASAN AL-MAWARDI October 27, 2010 12:52 PM BST
Speaking of punterz Duffs also lied through his teeth to try and steal money from punterz. Was given £10k loan to be paid by the end of the month then went on the missing list, eventually got in touch when punterz posted on here and exposed him and duffs ego was being bruised so he managed to pay it back.

This should have set the alarm bells ringing for mandylou before he decided to move down south.
Report ukgatsby. November 20, 2010 11:51 PM GMT
Log back into here for first time in yonks to find out where next forum game is going to be and see all this kicking off.

Forget the libel and the law imo. Sainsburys Car Park is your friend Happy
Report Dooberama September 19, 2011 8:35 PM BST
For those who may be interested

http://www.duffscardroom.co.uk/slough-card-room/


WELCOME TO DUFFS CARD ROOM SLOUGH

It is with great regret we have to announce that Duffs in Slough is now shut.



We have worked tirelessly at the pub to get it as busy as possible and as friendly as possible and this was being achieved.



We have spent a lot of money into getting the club set up and in the initial month was losing a lot of money. We spent money on advertising and equipment and have lost money on guarantees but persevered and everything was then ticking along nicely.



We also spent a lot of time in the initial months getting new members and getting the word out there and then last month it really started getting busier. The beginning of this month had been excellent but now we find ourselves kicked out by the pub owners.



We have been kicked out because Karl Lorenzo who is an exceptionally good friend of the pub owner Michelle, has gone behind the scenes and offered her £2,000 per month to hire the room and take over the poker. As she knows him very well (as they had been good friends for several years), she has agreed to this and even though we have looked after the room and managed to get over 100 players in every week we find ourselves kicked out. The irony in this is that it was Karl who initially approached us 4 or 5 months ago and asked if we would set up poker in there as the pub was dying and needed extra income bought in otherwise they would lose the pub.



We did this and get everything going nicely with never a complaint from our members or neighbours and then Karl steps in and steals the club from behind our backs and they accept his offer with total disregard for everyone who works there and the time, effort and money that we have invested. Needless to say we will be looking at taking action for breach of contract.
Report Mandylou September 20, 2011 10:15 AM BST
We find this totally disgusting and underhand that someone can just come in and steal our club and we are powerless to stop it. We totally supported Karl in the beginning months and now find that all he has done on a continual basis is cause friction between the managers and spread gossip amongst the members and have no doubt will continue to do so.

Quite a few people have lost their jobs over this, one of which has just had a baby son and another who moved all the way to Slough from Bournemouth for the job and various other dealers and we deeply feel for them unlike the owners of the pub who have sold us out for their own personal gain to someone who has no chance of ever keeping up with the payment of £2,000 as the poker cannot in anyway make that sort of money.

We are now desperately looking for another venue in the surrounding area so we can offer our members an alternative place to enjoy a game of poker. If anyone has or knows of a venue that would be suitable we would be more than interested in talking.

All of the money taken for the leagues and jackpots will be put aside and put into place for a new venue when we find one which we don’t expect will take too long.

We really do hope that you can be patient with us whilst we source another venue and if Karl Lorenzo does open up at The Victoria we hope that you will stay away as he is the whole reason behind the closure of Duffs Slough.

In the meantime we would like to thank you for all your support and are still open inReadingand always will be so hope to see you there.


Look up irony in the dictionary Tony
so another club goes titz up with money outstanding in wages and unpaid prizes to players and once again its all someone elses fault
Report Helmuthian Folds September 20, 2011 12:30 PM BST
Sorry kirk still not got my own picture! [;)][;)]

Report Daryl Revok September 20, 2011 2:00 PM BST
Is the Phoenix still going strong?
Report Mandylou September 20, 2011 2:34 PM BST
yes all going well , bar picking up after a bit of a slow start but poker started off strong and carried on
Report Daryl Revok September 20, 2011 2:48 PM BST
Fair play, wd.
Report Waheyyyy September 20, 2011 5:23 PM BST
HF Laugh I never did get round to doing my bath of popcorn pic with a mankini on lol.

Alreet Carl, hope all's well mate Cool
Report Mandylou September 20, 2011 7:20 PM BST
all is good mate thanks
Ditto
Report Dooberama September 21, 2011 12:49 AM BST
gl Carl
Report joinedtodaytotakethepiss September 21, 2011 1:54 PM BST
Well, well.  What have we here ?
Report joinedtodaytotakethepiss September 21, 2011 2:21 PM BST
Is the Phoenix club a limited company?  Has it filed a tax return yet ?  Did it make a profit ?  How can I invest ?
Report Mandylou September 21, 2011 2:23 PM BST
the phoneix club is a private members club and no thanks it isnt looking for investors
Report joinedtodaytotakethepiss September 21, 2011 2:25 PM BST
I'd rather speak to the organ grinder than the monkey.  If it's profitable then I'm going to make an offer.
Report joinedtodaytotakethepiss September 21, 2011 2:27 PM BST
Why does this Doobs fella keep bringing old posts back ?  Is he a sh1t stirrer ?
Report Mandylou September 21, 2011 2:31 PM BST
well unfortunately the organ grinder doesent use the forum so only the monkey is available
as in previous post - the club isnt looking for offers
re Doobs - you will have to ask him that
Report joinedtodaytotakethepiss September 21, 2011 2:47 PM BST
I'd like to invest £30,000 but I want 10% of the company. That's valuing a  business at £300k which hasn't posted a profit.
Report Mandylou September 21, 2011 2:59 PM BST
ok send me your name and other business which you have invested and helped and i will pass it on
Report Mandylou September 22, 2011 9:24 AM BST
this is the other side of the coin from the owners of the pub

Dear all

We were not going to dignify with a response to the comments made by Duffs on facebook or their web page, The partners of the Victoria do not want to get into a mud slinging match however we feel like we need to address a few of the sob stories that Duffs have made.

Once upon a time ……………..

Duffs have only made you aware of the money they have lost they have not commented on the money we have lost or the time and effort we put in getting the room ready nor the parties we turned away while we were waiting for Duffs to close down in Bournemouth. He has also gracefully told all the customer cost of the furniture forgetting to tell he had this already from the Bournemouth club that was getting closed down

They are acting very surprised that this has happened !!!!

Duffs has also omitted to inform its customers that not 5 weeks ago Tony was going to try and sell Slough Poker room and its data to Karl – ( please feel free to email us and we and can show the full email stating this) it was only when Tony came into the club and had to work a couple of days that he decided to give it a go

Duffs were informed of the offer and as The Victoria has Four Partners and Michelle been a personal friend of Karl’s she did not take a vote in this matter - Tony and Ben were informed of this. Tony has proceeded to tell you all that the offer that was made cannot be sustained by playing poker - again we can show anybody who is remotely interested an email from Duffs offering us the same. This is not a personal matter it is business.

We can confirm that Duffs were giving every opportunity to talk to us, Tony came over to Slough room and spoke to Michelle for over 3 hours on Wednesday night. to try and convince her that Duffs were only making £2000 a month - it would only be possible for them to contribute to the electric. Tony offered a token gesture !!!

We are aware that all the customer were happy and yes we have had no problem with our neighbours – it’s the internal politics that we were not happy with.

Now to get onto sob story of lost jobs on Wednesday Tony was more than happy to offer someone else up for Bens job if this was to save his position in the pub, Tony also informed her that his staff were more than capable of locking up at night and he was loyal and trusted everyone in his team – lol I don’t think so - a few loyal customers will remember Mr Duffield asked Ben to leave a few weeks back two weeks before his baby was due – he barred Ben from all his clubs ( yip all two of them) he was more than happy to show the partners at the Victoria where Ben had been taking money from him yip loyal to the last, Ben lol thank you for your offer on Monday We will keep that to show Mr Duffield how loyal you really are as for the dealer who move to be here, the owner and his manager delighted to inform us that they thought he was a thief then asked us to allow him to lock up our premises. ?????? Are we mad !!!

Duffs were asking the Victoria to make a loss so they could continue to make their profit, we did not sell Duffs out, we offered them a business deal and Tony did not want to take it until the final hour when they offered the same as Karl after saying a number of times that this could not be done !!

Contract ???? is that the same contact they had when Duffs were going to sell us out 5 weeks ago.

We feel that Duffs had total disregard for our licence and our premises, we would also like to point out when Duffs came to The Victoria they had 3 poker rooms he now has one. Now that should say something !!!!!!! some should read Readings ex partner rants about Tony.

If Duffs feel like they had not done something wrong why did they take all their furniture at 2am this morning ?? also they were given the opportunity to continue until the first week in October this would of given them enough time complete the games that were advertised and time to discuss the league with their valued customers instead of steeling away during the night.

As we have stated in our little rant we have emails to back-up everything that we are saying and if anyone had not got anything to do one bleak and rainy day please feel free to ask to see all the emails

We would like to thank Duffs for saving our pub from going bust – this is why we ran at a loss for two months.

We are really sorry if you feel you need to take a side, we would love to see you all back at the Victoria.

Take care,

The Victoria
Report Helmuthian Folds September 22, 2011 11:32 AM BST
Very very sad. SadSadSad
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