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anyone see him losing like 15k to sansone so far - he still playing - italian user - this has happened in past with punterz and new accounts - anyway thought id share the entertainment
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Around two weeks ago probably the best hu sng player on betfair 'Jay Pognon' lost in similar circumstances. Brand new account 'stratomas' sat in $2,500 and $5,000 hu sng. From Italy. Win virtually every showdown. The first game I watched when 'sansone' lead out virtually 2000 *****all in into 300 chip pot with 78 v 44 on A64 flop was very unusual. I have a feeling we may hear a lot more on this.
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Yah look at this hand, looks pretty dodgy/awful:
***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 631376044 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $2,500 Buy-in + $10 Entry Fee, Level:3 Blinds(25/50-(no ante)) - Thursday, January 07, 15:12:54 GMT 2010 $2,500+$10 NL Hold'em #3680748 Table 1 2-max (Real Money) Seat 1 is the button Total number of active players : 2 Seat 1: MrKangaroo ( 1,940 ) Seat 2: sansone ( 2,060 ) Tourney Level:3 Blinds(25/50-(no ante)) MrKangaroo posts small blind [25] sansone posts big blind [50] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to MrKangaroo [ 4h, 4d ] MrKangaroo calls [25] sansone raises to [150] MrKangaroo calls [100] ** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, 6h, Ah ] sansone goes all-in sansone bets [1,910] MrKangaroo calls [1,790] MrKangaroo goes all-in Returning uncalled bet [120] to sansone ** Showdown ** MrKangaroo shows [ 4h, 4d ] sansone shows [ 8s, 7s ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ] ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] ** Hand Conclusion ** sansone wins 3,880 from main pot with a straight, Eight to Four ************ Game 631376044 ends ************ |
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two awful players going at it. should be enjoyable.
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hes italian, that says it all, it may look dodgy to you but its standard play for an italian because they are ALL FVCKING STUPID
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it was a bluff with outs, standard
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In fairness, that does look pretty dodgy :0
Why on earth would someone do that at those stakes, unless by error? |
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Isn't sansone a blast from the recent past? Didn't he used to be a high stakes sports better who used to always play high stakes cash here? Maybe I have the name wrong?
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Semi bluff 1910 to win a pot that small with a gutshot and backdoor? Just at a glance I estimate that if he gets called 1 in 5 he's losing on that move and I would expect him to be called at least 1/5 with an ace? Need to do the math but it looks pretty bad to me. But then maybe Im missing something - in which case a lot of this depends on why he read Mr Kanga wrong.
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Agree with winkelholland. Weird thing if, if he was a superuser and could see oppos cards he'd never make the move would he? Unless he knew the turn was coming - that really would be scary. That didn't even happen on UB!
What was the final result after their games? Kangaroo down $15k or did he get any back? |
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I doubt very much that this has anything to do with Betfair. Just a bad read and a very bad play that he got lucky with.
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You cannot make any judgements on one hand like this taken out of context.
Apparently they played a series of games so in the context of the other games th hand may make more sense! |
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Perhaps he lost (or won) 100k or something on his sportsbetting. Who knows what makes people do silly things, and in this case I reallly cant see how it could ever be a winning play unless hes expecting not to be called enough times to justify it. I need to do the maths but as agressive a player as I am,I could see myself making that play. Maybe thats where Im going wrong ;-) !
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Good point though Helmuthian Folds - you cant base everything on maths. There are other mitigting circumstances that need to be taken into account
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I cannot see a single circumstance where that would be anything remotely approaching a +ev play, regardless of what had gone on previously!
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But playing 1000 random players over 1000 games - this has to be a donk play
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I agree it looks like a typical italian/greek play but without the rest of the story we are just guessing!
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Well actually Chop Im not sure.If a player tends to make a continuation bet every flop, which often happens heads up, assuming that they hit the flop 30% of the time - and are only strong enough to call an all in half of this, then this could possibly be closer to EV than we realise. If Im missing something please let me know!
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Jamming his 1900 stack into a 300 pot with a gutshot?
No way is that ever +EV. |
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Depends how many times he gets called on that move! Im not justifying it, its not my kind of play especially on that flop.
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And yes, I think its a lot more likely that he is a donk thank anything else. VUL Kanga, what can I say.
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lol it is as close to ev as i am to lands end
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Fair enough guys. It cant be anywhere near +EV - but the main point in all of this is that I doubt very much its anything to do with Betfair. Just another horrific play reqarded as we see time and time again.
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Thought so, he is the fella I was thinking of.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?4533526 Date: Saturday, August 01, 01:17:06 ET 2009 Type: Tournament Game: Hold'em NL Table: London 55 Blinds: $50/100 Table info: Dealer, Seat 1:sansone ($4,719.10) Seat 2:HERO ($19,698) Crazy italian sports bettor with a seemingly massive bank for a long time, but not around so much now. Not sure about the table selection I just don't think this hand is that dodgy, you see similar at $5/$10 up short handed quite often. He doesn't put you on an ace, and even if you had one do you call? even knowing the overbet is nuts or air. If you have limp/called a monster like KK or QQ, you aren't ever calling. And if he does get called, this hand is great advertising. |
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Soap reporting from St Ives! ;-)
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yh he ended up either 15 or 17.5k down - he didnt win one game, lost one 5k game and deffo 4 but maybe 5 2.5k games - someone else played sansone 2.5k game after kang and sansone lost that, last game i see him play and only game i see him lose
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The blogs back
http://kangapoker.blogspot.com/ |
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Do you think P is right.....?
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the hand with the K5 he makes a move and gets lucky imo. the check raise on the turn is a strong move in heads up play and kanga knows this. ok he hit a 3 outer on the river to suck out but doesnt seem to suspicious.
the 78 move is a bit more strange shall we say. it is possible he is just an over aggresive donkey on a huge heater though ofc. the push into a pot size as kanga rightly says he is only going to get called as a huge dog but there is the argument that if kang had an ace would he check call with it? what is the range for calling a push on that flop??? would you call with anything but a set or AK/AQ?? you see dwan, blom etc making these moves and they are geniuses ofc. when an unknown does them they are a donkey or a super user lol. Kang is no doubt the best heads up player on here and imo should be looking to keep play this guy. over a sample size of 5 or 6 games luck plays a big part but if you can get him to keep playing then you have to beat the short term luck factor. |
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What about computer hacked...?
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Arbboy runs bad and accuses ysoserious of **ing.
MrKangaroo runs bad over 6 games and accuses random Italian of **ing. The difference please? |
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Ariston the 78 hand was an open shove which is nothing like shoving when checked to you. Or do you mean preflop? Durr/Blom overbet shove on the river not the flop. A new post is on the blog now and there are some stats there.
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One of the diff is in all the hands arbboy moaned about ysoseriouse was making ev shoves or ev calls, their might have only been one r 2 where he made -ev plays but i cant remember one at the mo.Kang however seems to feel the games were played almost perfect by his opponant bar a few crazy plays where he got their very time.Kang dropped a bundle to this guy, so it mayb hes searching for the reason why, but this has happened a few times to kang now where new account appears mashes him and is never seen again.mayb he is paranoid but mayb hes not, i think hes right to bring it to the attention of others playing sim stakes.
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The difference is arbboys complaints are totally unfounded as has been proven here by everyone posting hand histories. Here we have a case of a so called italian donk going missing for several years coming back and playing entirely differently. Previously in the past he would lose every game virtually, now suddenly he plays perfect poker? Added to this who was 'stratomas' who came from nowhere several weeks ago and also registered for $2500 and $5000 games taking jaypognon for $15,000 or so. If it is the same person then pokerst@rs or fulltiltpoker would instantly refund the money back to kanga taking it from the sansone account.
Ariston says keep playing the same person but the problem is they hardly ever appear. Generally they win lots of money lose one game and then dissapear. Personally if I played at a site for the first time and won tens of thousands in a few hours I would be back a lot more often. The amount of times this has happened now is ridiculous. The only people who have all the information are betfair themselves, but do they have a member of staff there who can properly study the information? All these apparently so called italian sports bettors who donk off on poker, how many of them are actually losing players? Giorgio56 was always on the tables at betfair making so much with apparently bad plays. This was before sharkscope and once sharkscope was introduced he played a lot less. Anyone sharkscoping Giorgio56 will see that he shows as being $94,173 down. Yet he dumped off to accounts that he/his friends own the following: Pllncino 48 -$52,826 sparalesto1 21 -$22,610 80daniel 5 -$12,550 soleny 15 -$10,489 The reason we can safely assume these monies were dumped off are because of the following: Versus Pllncino he played 48 lost 48 Versus sparalesto1 he played 22 and lost 22 Versus 80daniel he played 5 and lost 5 Versus soleny he played 15 and lost 15 For several years many people complained yet he still played here. Pre sharkscope the amount he won was ridiculous. Giorgio56 282 -$334 $847 -29% -$94,173 LLLLLLLL 66 Betfair Here we have a player who plays absolutely awful yet is still in profit considering what he has dumped off. Before sharkscope he was definitely in profit over $100,000. |
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^^^^^ good post.
If that 78 push is +ev under normal circumstances, I'll give up playing. It was mentioned that a massive overbet like that can be air or nuts. Well if that's the case, it should get called approx half of the time, which means it is a hugely losing play. Added to the fact that any decent player, certainly Mr Kangeroo, would have notes on all players ever played at that level, meaning a calling range would be much wider. Very rare to get donks at that level imo. Still looks very dodgy to me. |
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To open shove virtually 1800 into a 300 pot so light makes no sense unless an utter donk. If you want to set up an opponent by pretending to play bad and then playing tigher surely you would not have automuck on. If you were to shove all in and show when your opponent folded then perhaps it is not such an ugly move. So we give the benefit of the doubt and say it was an absolute donk play, so how does such a poor player go on to win 6/6 games.Hitting when needing to, holding when needing to hold. Checking when good, betting when opponent has nothing. 200 hands is a fair amount when considering almost everyone was perfect. Only one overbet all in which happened to hit, only one turn check raise which happened to hit.
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ok as an training once i played a close friend and top player (top 10 in europe at the time) heads up for ten games.
rules where as follows both hands were dealt face up before each hand was dealt i told him what my betting pattern was going to be (in effect deciding how to play each hand blind before cards were dealt). he had to play his hand as if it was a normal game and he didnt know my hand obviously. i won 8 out of ten games with sheer aggresion. in many of the games when he had the button i would state- i am either raising if u limp or 3betting pre then moving in on the flop. some of the hands i say i am limping and then floating the flop etc. basically ever hand i had a predetermined plan for every hand. and it did cover every street and was dependant on what he did (ie if u call me on the flop i will bet the turn as well but if u reraise me on the flop i will only proceed if i have a draw/middle pair then im pushing on you) 6 games in nowhere near enough of a sample size to cry foul though. I got lucky and beat kang a few weeks ago a few games on the bounce and he is a far better heads up player than me. did he cry foul then? It is a lot of money lost in a short space of time but there doesnt always have to be a reason you lose- sometimes the other player runs like god. without seeing all the hand histories with both sets of holecards exposed (which is impossible and can never happen ofc) it is impossible to say if his opponent is a genius or a lucky donk. Even seeing the hands it would need a lot more games to look at to say anything. |
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Looking at kanga's blog, he's only posted 2 hands so nothing conclusive, end of.
However, BF is clearly a complete joke and with other sites having been outed, no one would be surprised to discover in x days, months or yrs that superusers or similar exist on the site. |
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if it was a super user why would he go allin on the flop with just a gutshot?
he would check call then get it allin on the turn as no way is kanga folding a set of 4s there. nobody would be so daft. he made a big move and got lucky in my eyes a superuser for me could play without getting detected if had any sense. there is no way anyone would do this and make it so obvious especially if they have players willing to play them for 2500 5000 a time. |
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the beauty of poker is that over a very small sample, as is the case here, a very bad player can, and sometimes will, beat a very good player.
the italian could be a multi millionaire mafia boss for all we know sitting down with what amounts to loose change for him and having a bit of fun. to suggest betfair poker is rigged on the basis of the 2 hands posted is straying into x-files territory imho. if someone could see the hole cards and the cards still to come they would be making themselves very hard to detect. |
