mrkangaroo

Around two weeks ago probably the best hu sng player on betfair 'Jay Pognon' lost in similar circumstances. Brand new account 'stratomas' sat in $2,500 and $5,000 hu sng. From Italy. Win virtually every showdown. The first game I watched when 'sansone' lead out virtually 2000 *****all in into 300 chip pot with 78 v 44 on A64 flop was very unusual. I have a feeling we may hear a lot more on this.

Yah look at this hand, looks pretty dodgy/awful:

***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 631376044 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $2,500 Buy-in + $10 Entry Fee, Level:3 Blinds(25/50-(no ante)) - Thursday, January 07, 15:12:54 GMT 2010
$2,500+$10 NL Hold'em #3680748
Table 1 2-max (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of active players : 2
Seat 1: MrKangaroo ( 1,940 )
Seat 2: sansone ( 2,060 )
Tourney Level:3 Blinds(25/50-(no ante))
MrKangaroo posts small blind [25]
sansone posts big blind [50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MrKangaroo [ 4h, 4d ]
MrKangaroo calls [25]
sansone raises to [150]
MrKangaroo calls [100]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, 6h, Ah ]
sansone goes all-in
sansone bets [1,910]
MrKangaroo calls [1,790]
MrKangaroo goes all-in
Returning uncalled bet [120] to sansone
** Showdown **
MrKangaroo shows [ 4h, 4d ]
sansone shows [ 8s, 7s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
** Hand Conclusion **
sansone wins 3,880 from main pot with a straight, Eight to Four
************ Game 631376044 ends ************

two awful players going at it. should be enjoyable.

hes italian, that says it all, it may look dodgy to you but its standard play for an italian because they are ALL FVCKING STUPID

it was a bluff with outs, standard

In fairness, that does look pretty dodgy :0

Why on earth would someone do that at those stakes, unless by error?

Isn't sansone a blast from the recent past? Didn't he used to be a high stakes sports better who used to always play high stakes cash here? Maybe I have the name wrong?

Semi bluff 1910 to win a pot that small with a gutshot and backdoor? Just at a glance I estimate that if he gets called 1 in 5 he's losing on that move and I would expect him to be called at least 1/5 with an ace? Need to do the math but it looks pretty bad to me. But then maybe Im missing something - in which case a lot of this depends on why he read Mr Kanga wrong.

Agree with winkelholland. Weird thing if, if he was a superuser and could see oppos cards he'd never make the move would he? Unless he knew the turn was coming - that really would be scary. That didn't even happen on UB!

What was the final result after their games? Kangaroo down $15k or did he get any back?

I doubt very much that this has anything to do with Betfair. Just a bad read and a very bad play that he got lucky with.

You cannot make any judgements on one hand like this taken out of context.

Apparently they played a series of games so in the context of the other games th hand may make more sense!

Perhaps he lost (or won) 100k or something on his sportsbetting. Who knows what makes people do silly things, and in this case I reallly cant see how it could ever be a winning play unless hes expecting not to be called enough times to justify it. I need to do the maths but as agressive a player as I am,I could see myself making that play. Maybe thats where Im going wrong ;-) !

Good point though Helmuthian Folds - you cant base everything on maths. There are other mitigting circumstances that need to be taken into account

I cannot see a single circumstance where that would be anything remotely approaching a +ev play, regardless of what had gone on previously!

But playing 1000 random players over 1000 games - this has to be a donk play

I agree it looks like a typical italian/greek play but without the rest of the story we are just guessing!

Well actually Chop Im not sure.If a player tends to make a continuation bet every flop, which often happens heads up, assuming that they hit the flop 30% of the time - and are only strong enough to call an all in half of this, then this could possibly be closer to EV than we realise. If Im missing something please let me know!

Jamming his 1900 stack into a 300 pot with a gutshot?

No way is that ever +EV.

Depends how many times he gets called on that move! Im not justifying it, its not my kind of play especially on that flop.

And yes, I think its a lot more likely that he is a donk thank anything else. VUL Kanga, what can I say.

lol it is as close to ev as i am to lands end

Fair enough guys. It cant be anywhere near +EV - but the main point in all of this is that I doubt very much its anything to do with Betfair. Just another horrific play reqarded as we see time and time again.

Thought so, he is the fella I was thinking of.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?4533526

Date: Saturday, August 01, 01:17:06 ET 2009
Type: Tournament
Game: Hold'em NL
Table: London 55
Blinds: $50/100

Table info:
Dealer, Seat 1:sansone ($4,719.10)
Seat 2:HERO ($19,698)

Crazy italian sports bettor with a seemingly massive bank for a long time, but not around so much now. Not sure about the table selection

I just don't think this hand is that dodgy, you see similar at $5/$10 up short handed quite often. He doesn't put you on an ace, and even if you had one do you call? even knowing the overbet is nuts or air. If you have limp/called a monster like KK or QQ, you aren't ever calling.

And if he does get called, this hand is great advertising.

Soap reporting from St Ives! ;-)

yh he ended up either 15 or 17.5k down - he didnt win one game, lost one 5k game and deffo 4 but maybe 5 2.5k games - someone else played sansone 2.5k game after kang and sansone lost that, last game i see him play and only game i see him lose

The blogs back

http://kangapoker.blogspot.com/

Do you think P is right.....?

the hand with the K5 he makes a move and gets lucky imo. the check raise on the turn is a strong move in heads up play and kanga knows this. ok he hit a 3 outer on the river to suck out but doesnt seem to suspicious.

the 78 move is a bit more strange shall we say. it is possible he is just an over aggresive donkey on a huge heater though ofc. the push into a pot size as kanga rightly says he is only going to get called as a huge dog but there is the argument that if kang had an ace would he check call with it? what is the range for calling a push on that flop??? would you call with anything but a set or AK/AQ??

you see dwan, blom etc making these moves and they are geniuses ofc. when an unknown does them they are a donkey or a super user lol. Kang is no doubt the best heads up player on here and imo should be looking to keep play this guy. over a sample size of 5 or 6 games luck plays a big part but if you can get him to keep playing then you have to beat the short term luck factor.

What about computer hacked...?

Arbboy runs bad and accuses ysoserious of **ing.

MrKangaroo runs bad over 6 games and accuses random Italian of **ing.

The difference please?

Ariston the 78 hand was an open shove which is nothing like shoving when checked to you. Or do you mean preflop? Durr/Blom overbet shove on the river not the flop. A new post is on the blog now and there are some stats there.

One of the diff is in all the hands arbboy moaned about ysoseriouse was making ev shoves or ev calls, their might have only been one r 2 where he made -ev plays but i cant remember one at the mo.Kang however seems to feel the games were played almost perfect by his opponant bar a few crazy plays where he got their very time.Kang dropped a bundle to this guy, so it mayb hes searching for the reason why, but this has happened a few times to kang now where new account appears mashes him and is never seen again.mayb he is paranoid but mayb hes not, i think hes right to bring it to the attention of others playing sim stakes.

The difference is arbboys complaints are totally unfounded as has been proven here by everyone posting hand histories. Here we have a case of a so called italian donk going missing for several years coming back and playing entirely differently. Previously in the past he would lose every game virtually, now suddenly he plays perfect poker? Added to this who was 'stratomas' who came from nowhere several weeks ago and also registered for $2500 and $5000 games taking jaypognon for $15,000 or so. If it is the same person then pokerst@rs or fulltiltpoker would instantly refund the money back to kanga taking it from the sansone account.

Ariston says keep playing the same person but the problem is they hardly ever appear. Generally they win lots of money lose one game and then dissapear. Personally if I played at a site for the first time and won tens of thousands in a few hours I would be back a lot more often. The amount of times this has happened now is ridiculous.

The only people who have all the information are betfair themselves, but do they have a member of staff there who can properly study the information? All these apparently so called italian sports bettors who donk off on poker, how many of them are actually losing players?

Giorgio56 was always on the tables at betfair making so much with apparently bad plays. This was before sharkscope and once sharkscope was introduced he played a lot less. Anyone sharkscoping Giorgio56 will see that he shows as being $94,173 down. Yet he dumped off to accounts that he/his friends own the following:

Pllncino 48 -$52,826
sparalesto1 21 -$22,610
80daniel 5 -$12,550
soleny 15 -$10,489

The reason we can safely assume these monies were dumped off are because of the following:

Versus Pllncino he played 48 lost 48
Versus sparalesto1 he played 22 and lost 22
Versus 80daniel he played 5 and lost 5
Versus soleny he played 15 and lost 15

For several years many people complained yet he still played here. Pre sharkscope the amount he won was ridiculous.

Giorgio56 282 -$334 $847 -29% -$94,173 LLLLLLLL 66 Betfair

Here we have a player who plays absolutely awful yet is still in profit considering what he has dumped off. Before sharkscope he was definitely in profit over $100,000.

^^^^^ good post.

If that 78 push is +ev under normal circumstances, I'll give up playing. It was mentioned that a massive overbet like that can be air or nuts. Well if that's the case, it should get called approx half of the time, which means it is a hugely losing play. Added to the fact that any decent player, certainly Mr Kangeroo, would have notes on all players ever played at that level, meaning a calling range would be much wider. Very rare to get donks at that level imo.

Still looks very dodgy to me.

To open shove virtually 1800 into a 300 pot so light makes no sense unless an utter donk. If you want to set up an opponent by pretending to play bad and then playing tigher surely you would not have automuck on. If you were to shove all in and show when your opponent folded then perhaps it is not such an ugly move. So we give the benefit of the doubt and say it was an absolute donk play, so how does such a poor player go on to win 6/6 games.Hitting when needing to, holding when needing to hold. Checking when good, betting when opponent has nothing. 200 hands is a fair amount when considering almost everyone was perfect. Only one overbet all in which happened to hit, only one turn check raise which happened to hit.

ok as an training once i played a close friend and top player (top 10 in europe at the time) heads up for ten games.

rules where as follows

both hands were dealt face up

before each hand was dealt i told him what my betting pattern was going to be (in effect deciding how to play each hand blind before cards were dealt).

he had to play his hand as if it was a normal game and he didnt know my hand obviously.

i won 8 out of ten games with sheer aggresion. in many of the games when he had the button i would state- i am either raising if u limp or 3betting pre then moving in on the flop.

some of the hands i say i am limping and then floating the flop etc. basically ever hand i had a predetermined plan for every hand. and it did cover every street and was dependant on what he did (ie if u call me on the flop i will bet the turn as well but if u reraise me on the flop i will only proceed if i have a draw/middle pair then im pushing on you)

6 games in nowhere near enough of a sample size to cry foul though. I got lucky and beat kang a few weeks ago a few games on the bounce and he is a far better heads up player than me. did he cry foul then? It is a lot of money lost in a short space of time but there doesnt always have to be a reason you lose- sometimes the other player runs like god.

without seeing all the hand histories with both sets of holecards exposed (which is impossible and can never happen ofc) it is impossible to say if his opponent is a genius or a lucky donk. Even seeing the hands it would need a lot more games to look at to say anything.

Looking at kanga's blog, he's only posted 2 hands so nothing conclusive, end of.

However, BF is clearly a complete joke and with other sites having been outed, no one would be surprised to discover in x days, months or yrs that superusers or similar exist on the site.

if it was a super user why would he go allin on the flop with just a gutshot?

he would check call then get it allin on the turn as no way is kanga folding a set of 4s there. nobody would be so daft. he made a big move and got lucky in my eyes

a superuser for me could play without getting detected if had any sense. there is no way anyone would do this and make it so obvious especially if they have players willing to play them for 2500 5000 a time.

the beauty of poker is that over a very small sample, as is the case here, a very bad player can, and sometimes will, beat a very good player.

the italian could be a multi millionaire mafia boss for all we know sitting down with what amounts to loose change for him and having a bit of fun.

to suggest betfair poker is rigged on the basis of the 2 hands posted is straying into x-files territory imho.

if someone could see the hole cards and the cards still to come they would be making themselves very hard to detect.

Totally agree with chipfire227, i think he is a rich fish and playing for fun which makes him even more dangerous loool

It was also the comments on kanga's blog about every hand being played perfectly.

TheEagle beat him and he was **ing.

Sansome beat him and he was **ing.

Giorgio beat him and he was **ing.

Anyone spotting a pattern here?

Anyone who starts beating him either gets accused of **ing or is subject to streams of table abuse from him and his cronies.

TheEagle does not lose though?

Any idiot can win 6 HU on the trot, even I have managed 8. I suspect there would not be as much of a problem here if he had been playing $250 or $500 HU.

Ariston:"Kang is no doubt the best heads up player on here"

Do you really mean that? It just isn't the case from my experience.

Tuna Canoe 08 Jan 19:03
TheEagle beat him and he was **ing.

Sansome beat him and he was **ing.

Giorgio beat him and he was **ing.

Anyone spotting a pattern here?

Anyone who starts beating him either gets accused of **ing or is subject to streams of table abuse from him and his cronies.

This man chats sense sansone has played betfair for years and years and used to spew money all over the place gets lucky in a few hu sng now hes a **?lmfao maybe he can just afford to** 2.5k up the wall where as kanga loses and thinks hes been **ed lololol.the money clearly means more to him the the italian spew monkey.

He is actually a winner over both 'the eagle' and 'giorgio56'.

Here's one for you guy's Mrkangaroo was down minus $10k+ on sharkscope not so long ago then he played Befair's Imper1um and won 6 out of 6 heads up PLO STT for $15k to put him in the black, anything dodgy here?? is MrKangaroo a superuser?? or is Mrkangaroo a sore loser because he lost to a rich Italian fish with alot more money than him??

this seems a good example of people drawing a conclusion without enough information.

I would however exempt from this criticism the poster "aristonandon"who seems to know what he is talking about

I am now no. 1 follower of :

http://kangapoker.blogspot.com/

What no stats...?

I hope he goes broke. Smug, smack talking wnker.

just read the kang blog - I watched these games as I have watched similar games in past of high stakes sng on bf - (I dont hang around for these games :-) Just happen to be playing when games are on, kang, puntz etc have always been on my watch list) They are funny games these because it does seem as if opp can see both sets of cards - has an answer for everything and is one step ahead. You could say that it is just one player totally outplaying another but when you actually see these games you do not get that oppinion. It always seems like the Italian or whoever it is always is one step ahead - software hacking is a real possibility as if you have the knowledge you can hack anything. Recent hacks on accounts on ft have been seen, one recently was a red pros wife who lost 30k from hacked account. The prob is we can discuss this all day long but will never have a definitive answer - I would if I was Kang is just not play these names when they appear - however I also understand the greed that pushes you to play for these stakes against anyone who appears :-)

From chit chat :

HU4ROLLZ? 22 Jul 12:48


No it's not russian roulette.

Basically, it's called 'fk the chav'. When you are driving with a few mates, wind down the windows and hurl abuse at the chavs on the road - the nastier the better. What makes this game different than your usual Sunday drive is that you do it in populated areas so there is a possibility they can catch up with you.

Watching their reactions to being called [b]burberry cnts or anol astronauts etc etc is priceless.

The best places are near traffic lights (100-200m away), after football matches and near pubs.

I haven't been caught yet but the fkers have tried. Help me! If you already play this on your own they you need help.
[/b]

And you are not a 'smack talker'...?

that's the worst you could find. That is me describing a funny game which I have played once.

Kangaroo rubs you down after big pots and talks like an a$$hole to fish. There is a huge difference, especially as this is a poker forum.

Lol,

1: Kang rubs people down in order to tilt them, and goad them into losing more money.
2: You drive round in a cheap car on a Sunday with your window down shouting.

Forgive me i think I no who is the most socially inept here.

As for is that the worst you can find its pretty fookign embarrassing imo. What else do you do may i ask ?

who said I drive a cheap car? You're totally right - that post shows I am a sad person with no life because I wound down a window, shouted something at some chavs and posted about it. Kangaroo's chat (for the few times I've heard it) does not tilt me, it just shows he is a prck. Pull your nuts out mate.

The post to me suggests thats you and your mates have thought about this game quite a lot. Looks like a lot of planning has gone into it.

As a tip have you ever thought about doing it near one of them cheap discount designer outlets, the fun you should get their must be immense.

I did it once, thought it was funny, posted about it. I think I got one or two laughs and some putdowns, no big deal. This is a poker forum and I was expressing my view as to his attitude on the table. You are sticking up for him with no idea about what he said. I do appreciate your concern for him and the chavs of the world (who I abused once). Gl at the tables.

oh btw have you eve heard of hyperbole? I think the title was something like 'help, I play this too much' or something like that. Exaggeration for effect? Thanks for finding it though sherlock.

thread isnt about kangas chat- he has made plenty money by being abusive and tilting people, if they fall for it then its their own faults.


thread is about an alleged **/superuser type thing. still nobody wanted to answer as to why a superuser would open push with a just a gutshot into a set. if the player could see both sets of holecards why would he shove when he knows hes getting called. if he "knows" what card is coming next again why would he shove and arise suspicion. surely he would just check call then shove turn. if you think anyone is going to fold a set in a heads up game just because the gutshot str8 has arrived then your wrong. the other hand with the k5 is a rly standard play in heads up games, he has represented a hand on the turn and got lucky on the river..... its hardly like thats never happened before. kanga seems to say that he flatted the check raise because the guy had to fire the river if the king doesnt come- i dont agree at all. if i make a move like that on the turn in a heads up game and get flat called i dont always push the river and follow it through, sometimes i do of course but more often than not ive made a move been caught with fingers in till so give up on the river (although if i make that move on the turn i will usually have a couple of overs at least so the king should definately be a scare card).

this guy is definately just a lucky aggresive rich bloke who has ran like a god for 6 games. It happens. I beat someone 9 games in a row 2 weeks ago and hit everything. Made some good hero calls and hit some miracles when i made moves and got looked up. I didnt get accused of being a superuser though- i just called a lucky cnut

explain how if you slowroll someone and they leave, he has tilted them into making a 'mistake' and play badly against him. Especially in a heads up sitngo lmao

maybe not everyone leaves?

by that I mean, if they leave they don't play bad. Alternatively, if it is in a sitngo, the format is such that skill is hardly necessary (note these sitngo kings' stats). In fact being on titl loosens your calling range which is better than folding in turbos most of the time, especially with what I know of their pushing ranges.

dibble, of course, another a little exaggeration on my part. If that is part of the game, (it is) then of course he is entitled to do it. Still doesnt make him less of a prck.

Updated...

http://kangapoker.blogspot.com/

HU4ROLLZ? = builder86....right...?

it's not easy being chessey 09 Jan 02:53
Here's one for you guy's Mrkangaroo was down minus $10k+ on sharkscope not so long ago then he played Befair's Imper1um and won 6 out of 6 heads up PLO STT for $15k to put him in the black, anything dodgy here?? is MrKangaroo a superuser?? or is Mrkangaroo a sore loser because he lost to a rich Italian fish with alot more money than him??

I believe it was 4-2 not 6-0. Wannacookie aka homeboy8 aka lisa8 stick to your $10 games donk.