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The most recent visit to the famed "lunar landscape" mountaintop finish of Mont Ventoux was in the penultimate stage (20) of the 2009 edition, where the
Spanish rider Juan Manuel Garate won the best win of his career, over the significantly shorter trip of 167kms. The riders will be riding the longest distance of any stage this year at 242kms, and therefore they'll be riding 75kms more than in 2009. This increased distance of the stage is however diluted by the four cat climbs along the course before the HC cat of Mont Ventoux itself, with the cat 3s of 2009 becoming the easier cat 4s this year.
I think most people would like to see the group of principals stay together up to the start of the 1582m vertical burn from Bedoin, and I think this will be the likely scenario since most will know that the climb itself is the showdown. Nevertheless, breakaways will form and will want to go the long haul, however I think we'll see the contending teams keep them to a safe gap. In 2009, by Bedoin, three riders came from a very early sixteen rider group, and they had less than five minutes to the main contenders, but won by less than 40secs. Aware of the necessary time gap and average speed calculations; Saxo, Sky, Belkin, and Movistar -- the teams holding the peloton -- will keep a breakaway in their sights, especially since to go too early with their own attacks would be foolhardy and add an element of chaos which would make their strategy and tactics far too difficult to handle once the riders come upon Bedoin.
And so the breakaways will form regardless, perhaps finally Euskatel-Euskadi will make their long-awaited showing, but whomever it will be, they will dare to dream such glorious dreams of winning at this historic place, where the forecast is for hot and sunny conditions but feeling much hotter on the mountain, and some light winds. But surely such dreams come from the folktales of our childhood years, inspired by simple stories with big themes, such as in Cinderella where unjust oppression leads to a triumphant reward. And, for me, the reward will be deserving of Nairo Quintana, the man from Boyaca,
Colombia. He is the only rider, apart from Froome, who has shown true climbing form, but more than Froome, he has shown an effortless climbing style which can not only win him the stage, but can ask serious questions of the GC contenders ahead of him. Moreover, the altitude, which becomes a factor on this stage for riders, is actually an advantage for him, since he comes from elevation and his body is naturally developed to cope with the slightly thinner air and hot, dry atmosphere.
I think we all witnessed his promise in the Pyrenees, but the challenge will be for him to measure this promise in a stage-winning manner. And that's where
Valverde is so important to his success now that he is no longer challenging for the podium in Paris. If the Spanish veteran can impart the necessary wisdom acquired from eleven years as a champion pro, and indeed become a calming and trusted influence on the inexperienced but very promising young rider, then we might be fortunate to witness a drama with Quintana presenting himself as a modern cycling hero from very humble beginnings. If the Cinderella story is to be repeated in this context than it will start here on this mythical mountain in world cycling.
Nairo Quintana opened-up as the second favourite to Froome, with 4/1 being the best odds available from the Books.
Good luck to all,
SP
Spanish rider Juan Manuel Garate won the best win of his career, over the significantly shorter trip of 167kms. The riders will be riding the longest distance of any stage this year at 242kms, and therefore they'll be riding 75kms more than in 2009. This increased distance of the stage is however diluted by the four cat climbs along the course before the HC cat of Mont Ventoux itself, with the cat 3s of 2009 becoming the easier cat 4s this year.
I think most people would like to see the group of principals stay together up to the start of the 1582m vertical burn from Bedoin, and I think this will be the likely scenario since most will know that the climb itself is the showdown. Nevertheless, breakaways will form and will want to go the long haul, however I think we'll see the contending teams keep them to a safe gap. In 2009, by Bedoin, three riders came from a very early sixteen rider group, and they had less than five minutes to the main contenders, but won by less than 40secs. Aware of the necessary time gap and average speed calculations; Saxo, Sky, Belkin, and Movistar -- the teams holding the peloton -- will keep a breakaway in their sights, especially since to go too early with their own attacks would be foolhardy and add an element of chaos which would make their strategy and tactics far too difficult to handle once the riders come upon Bedoin.
And so the breakaways will form regardless, perhaps finally Euskatel-Euskadi will make their long-awaited showing, but whomever it will be, they will dare to dream such glorious dreams of winning at this historic place, where the forecast is for hot and sunny conditions but feeling much hotter on the mountain, and some light winds. But surely such dreams come from the folktales of our childhood years, inspired by simple stories with big themes, such as in Cinderella where unjust oppression leads to a triumphant reward. And, for me, the reward will be deserving of Nairo Quintana, the man from Boyaca,
Colombia. He is the only rider, apart from Froome, who has shown true climbing form, but more than Froome, he has shown an effortless climbing style which can not only win him the stage, but can ask serious questions of the GC contenders ahead of him. Moreover, the altitude, which becomes a factor on this stage for riders, is actually an advantage for him, since he comes from elevation and his body is naturally developed to cope with the slightly thinner air and hot, dry atmosphere.
I think we all witnessed his promise in the Pyrenees, but the challenge will be for him to measure this promise in a stage-winning manner. And that's where
Valverde is so important to his success now that he is no longer challenging for the podium in Paris. If the Spanish veteran can impart the necessary wisdom acquired from eleven years as a champion pro, and indeed become a calming and trusted influence on the inexperienced but very promising young rider, then we might be fortunate to witness a drama with Quintana presenting himself as a modern cycling hero from very humble beginnings. If the Cinderella story is to be repeated in this context than it will start here on this mythical mountain in world cycling.
Nairo Quintana opened-up as the second favourite to Froome, with 4/1 being the best odds available from the Books.
Good luck to all,
SP
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Yes i'm not sure either that Valverde would ride for Quintana either, but he was talking to him a lot during the stage today, and i think he will be giving Quintana some good advice, coaching him along, and telling him stuff like when best to attack etc. But yes i don't think valverde is the type of rider to bury himself for the benefit of someone else.
And before the tour started Purito would have been my pick for this stage too Clay, but i just don't think he is in top form at the minute, and anything below his best and he will be struggling when the chips are down up here. If he is in good nick and has been holding a bit back, he could well make me look silly tomorrow as he is well capable of winning this at his best.
And before the tour started Purito would have been my pick for this stage too Clay, but i just don't think he is in top form at the minute, and anything below his best and he will be struggling when the chips are down up here. If he is in good nick and has been holding a bit back, he could well make me look silly tomorrow as he is well capable of winning this at his best.
Not a free ride BB, absolutely no chance in hell of that. what i'm saying is if there are still a small group together going in to the last km, and that they are both in it. That Bertie would likely be happy for Kreuziger to take the stage, as he is looking at the **** picture. It would work well for him, as he will be expecting a lot of work from Kreuziger and Rodgers later in the week to help break froome.
If Froome had a brain - we know he doesn't - he would simply mark his contenders going up the Ventoux, confident he will put some more time into them in the TT. But we know Froome and it could be death or glory with him.
Does anyone else think Movistar will pay back Belkin big time on Ventoux - with them going at it hard from the word go on the climb with Costa burying himself and then a Valverde attack and then Quintana....there is no way Movistar are going to let this lie with Belkin
Does anyone else think Movistar will pay back Belkin big time on Ventoux - with them going at it hard from the word go on the climb with Costa burying himself and then a Valverde attack and then Quintana....there is no way Movistar are going to let this lie with Belkin
I meant free ride on the last k, AC will need Kreuziger to bury himself till the last 100m fighting for every second he can get (gaining or limiting the loss)
We will see BB. i just think if a small group all together marking each other through the final km, that he won't mind Kreuziger kicking for the win knowing he is finishing with all his rivals. I'm not saying it's that likely but at 66/1 i'll have a little interest. like i said Froome will in all probabilty win it. Who is your fancy for tmw then??
I know what your saying Clay, but Froome's natural instinct is to attack and try to win every stage. Now thats probably not the most intelligent way to ride but it does make him exciting to watch, he is a proper throw back to days gone by. He just wants to ride for himself and do the best he can on each stage.
I do feel the way tomorrows stage is shaped, bringing it all down to that final climb, that it may turn in to a slight anti-climax. That all the main contenders could just mark each other and that we will have a group of 10 or so finishing together??
I know what your saying Clay, but Froome's natural instinct is to attack and try to win every stage. Now thats probably not the most intelligent way to ride but it does make him exciting to watch, he is a proper throw back to days gone by. He just wants to ride for himself and do the best he can on each stage.
I do feel the way tomorrows stage is shaped, bringing it all down to that final climb, that it may turn in to a slight anti-climax. That all the main contenders could just mark each other and that we will have a group of 10 or so finishing together??
The Ventoux climb of 2009 still scars me!!! What a bore fest that turn into be
Froome to win at a canter, 3.6 is actually tempting. I expect 'Bertie' to be better but still no match for Froome.
Will take Froome vs Quintana in the stage head-to-head market, hopefully the liquidity increases before the start of the stage.
Will take Froome vs Quintana in the stage head-to-head market, hopefully the liquidity increases before the start of the stage.
Quintana is the only one I wouldn't bet Froome h2h
Valverde as 3rd fav @13 is a miracle for me, much overrated. I'm not gonna pick someone for the win here
Valverde as 3rd fav @13 is a miracle for me, much overrated. I'm not gonna pick someone for the win here
should be good stage,froome for me ,will want to hammer home the message,will back pinot also
Thank you Happybacker -- I really appreciate your kind words. You are right, I would love to see Quintana do really well tomorrow. Not only for my money, I almost don't want to bet on him in the stage, so have put up some bids and if I don't get matched I won't be too disapoointed to not have any bets like bb66. It's just that the sport will gain so much from seeing such a humble, loyal, and genuine person do really well on debut. I understand where the Froome favouritism comes from -- he has that solid kick we often witnessed with Contador and that will be his weapon. No doubt he deserves favouritism for this.
Also, with Kreuziger, the steady gradient really suits him I think, unlike in the Alps where there's the steep inside graadient on the switchbacks, here it's steady and he rides a little like Evans in being able to keep a steady and even pace which really works for him. I agree that if he is in the mainselection he should be trading much shorter than 66/1 so perhaps you might look to put some bids in -- I certainly will. However, in 2009 he did weaken a little, or more accurately, he didn't have the dash for the line like Froome will have. I'm not sure Bertie would be left with Kreuziger by the finale, but by then he won't be trading at 66/1. Good observation of an overpriced pick.
Clay -- I'll admit I don't really know Valverde from a personal perspective -- I guess I'm just a romatic to think that such things may exist. However, I think he would do himself a disservice to not become Quintana's mentor.
Dope -- I realize you like to oppose me just for the sake of it -- no sweat -- but do consider that liquidity in those markets aren't always plentiful and you may get stuck. Perhaps I might suggest that a Quintana lay is a much better option for your level of opposition, since you have such an opinion of him against Froome. At least then you not only get Froome, but anyone in the break. Anyway, best of luck with that project.
Cheers,
SP
Also, with Kreuziger, the steady gradient really suits him I think, unlike in the Alps where there's the steep inside graadient on the switchbacks, here it's steady and he rides a little like Evans in being able to keep a steady and even pace which really works for him. I agree that if he is in the mainselection he should be trading much shorter than 66/1 so perhaps you might look to put some bids in -- I certainly will. However, in 2009 he did weaken a little, or more accurately, he didn't have the dash for the line like Froome will have. I'm not sure Bertie would be left with Kreuziger by the finale, but by then he won't be trading at 66/1. Good observation of an overpriced pick.
Clay -- I'll admit I don't really know Valverde from a personal perspective -- I guess I'm just a romatic to think that such things may exist. However, I think he would do himself a disservice to not become Quintana's mentor.
Dope -- I realize you like to oppose me just for the sake of it -- no sweat -- but do consider that liquidity in those markets aren't always plentiful and you may get stuck. Perhaps I might suggest that a Quintana lay is a much better option for your level of opposition, since you have such an opinion of him against Froome. At least then you not only get Froome, but anyone in the break. Anyway, best of luck with that project.
Cheers,
SP
think the GC guys might allow some lower ranked guys to get away so gonna have a few quid on Mikel Nieve and Romain Bardet, we all know the French will be at it today
Going for Pinot again, @ 46 this time, as kept his powder dry yesterday so got to assume that today's the day with the summit finish in his favour..hopefully the race will live up to the hype on this iconic stage..gl all
Have added a few quid on Mollema at 70's and 80's, has given me a good run for my money so far, is obviously in great form, and if all the favs do mark each other, he is one who does have a kick in the finish.
For those that have bet Pinot, he was taking tablets all day yesterday for a stomach bug, so would think he would probably save himself for the alps, perhaps the Alpe d'Huez stage.
For those that have bet Pinot, he was taking tablets all day yesterday for a stomach bug, so would think he would probably save himself for the alps, perhaps the Alpe d'Huez stage.
Seems about right to me BB?? available 100/1 bookies and 200+ on here. On last seasons Giro form you would have said that is massive but he has had crashes and illnesses this year and just isn't in the same form, has struggled when things have really gone off on the climbs (finished 39th over 8 mins back on stage 8). The pedigree is there and if he is feeling good today he could well figure but there are plenty who appeal more on current form.
I can't see him winning under any circumstances, neither from the GC group of course, nor doing a 200+k escape with his handicap which made him trailing at the back of the peloton all along so far
Hesjedal was in the break for a while on stage 9, part of Garmins plan to make it a hard stage which paid off with Martin winning. And i wouldn't be surprised if Garmin have plans for today and that Hesjedal will again try to do something for Dan Martin.
Well there off!! So good luck all, hope it's a classic and not an anti-climax!
Gilbert and Westra first to break, good to see Gilbert doing something at last in this tour!
Gilbert and Westra first to break, good to see Gilbert doing something at last in this tour!
Don't know if there is any live coverage yet, but the best place for links to live is steephill.tv
I'm just following it on the race tracker on letour.fr at the minute.
I'm just following it on the race tracker on letour.fr at the minute.
ok thx,guess it will be on soon,its such a classic stage,whirly froome and skytrain want to be part of its history
Poels, Chavanel, Riblon, Losada, El Fares, Fedrigo, Irizar, Roy, Impey, Sagan in the break soon to be joined by Rolland and Burghardt as they've almost bridged.
Rolland rightly favourite now as the break has 7mins at the moment. Poels, Chavanel, Riblon, Losada, Roy can also climb well, don't know Irizar or El Fares well enough to comment and then there is Sagan - be very surprised, and impressed, if he won.
Rolland rightly favourite now as the break has 7mins at the moment. Poels, Chavanel, Riblon, Losada, Roy can also climb well, don't know Irizar or El Fares well enough to comment and then there is Sagan - be very surprised, and impressed, if he won.
Rolland still not caught the break yet, and very little chance they will stay away all the way up Ventoux. The 2/1 price in places for Rolland now is a joke!
I have taken a bit of Roy at the prices, he put in a really impressive time trial a few days ago. Could be the sleeper with some good form.
The short price Rolland layers may be reaching for the cigar already...
Can't see any of the GC contenders putting time into froome today, really a question of whether he marks them or puts time into them imo. Prob the latter. Hopefully another ridiculous performance like AX3
1230 start on Eurosport for live pics, should be plenty of live streams by then
Doesnt look like they want to give the break a sniff, nearly 4 minutes...
The big thing today for me again is to see how Froome's team cope.
How long he has Porte with him will be the making of this stage for me, should he pop pretty early then Froome must surely calculate who to let up the road, he cannot and will not chase everyone.
Quintana can be afforded a minute or so and he is my big fave for this stage should Porte go early, unless he is attacking up to Valverde.
The big thing today for me again is to see how Froome's team cope.
How long he has Porte with him will be the making of this stage for me, should he pop pretty early then Froome must surely calculate who to let up the road, he cannot and will not chase everyone.
Quintana can be afforded a minute or so and he is my big fave for this stage should Porte go early, unless he is attacking up to Valverde.
Quintana all the way for me. I think this stage suits him perfectly. For me it was just a matter of making sure the breakaway wasn't going to spoil the party.
Is it me but both ITV4 and Eurosport seem to be having so many breaks. Thought with two channels live you wouldnt miss much.
if Froome and Quintana are leading to line I suppose Froome will leave the win to Quintana
That's me finished with the Tour. I'm expected to believe Froome can finish within a few seconds of the World Time Trial champion on a 30km time trial and also treat Mont Ventoux like a flat stage. Sky are intense in covering all the angles and I feel sure one of them is being several steps in front of the testers.
That was like Riis Hautacam 1996, repeated attacks, no sign of any tiredness. Brailsford said that repeated attacks on climbs are a sign of doping. Hopefully some journo has the balls to call him out on that. Ridiculous
red & white it is more likely that he is protected by the UCI. they protected LA and tried to supress Contador's positive. bilharzia treatments also gives him a readymade excuse for massive fluctuations in his blood passport. He is riding like he is either protected and has carte blanche or else he is on a substance which is undetectible or not yet banned imo. He is an idiot really. Could have won this tour in a less emphatic way and avoided half the suspicion.
Froome ,tremendous Ride ,Quintana great performance ,they think its all over ,they are probably right 
Froome looks like he could go round again. Porte playing the good day bad day trick.Juiced up for sure.
Perhaps we will have a more complete story in a year or two.
All that was missing on that stage was the laughter track 
you have to remember he was as strong a climber already last year, but wasn't allowed to show, he could have taken 2' out of Wiggins easily on the mountain top finishes
Froome didnt exactly scoot up the mountain a country mile ahead of everyone...
Ten dam, Mollema and Fugslang were less than 2 minutes off him, J C Pearaud was only just over 2 minutes behind!! Not exactly earth shattering..
Some trolls about...
Ten dam, Mollema and Fugslang were less than 2 minutes off him, J C Pearaud was only just over 2 minutes behind!! Not exactly earth shattering..
Some trolls about...
all of the top finishers are doped, they have to be to keep up. Nothing has changed, McQ and Verdruggen are still in control of testing. Look at the ascent times v previous tours if you want to compare, don't compare with other finishers. we are back at 2000 ascent levels out of nowhere this year
Oleg Tinkov @olegtinkov 20m
Armstrong have had same dominance as Froome.And later i seen him crying to Oprah.I am too adult to believe in fairytales.#Tdf #SaxoTinkoff№1
Armstrong have had same dominance as Froome.And later i seen him crying to Oprah.I am too adult to believe in fairytales.#Tdf #SaxoTinkoff№1
Froome's performance has taken The Clinic down once again
either he's clean or confident he won't be caught - doesn't seem to mind drawing attention to himself he could easily have stayed with Contador today and still won the Tour comfortably.
I looked in on the Clinic once, it was just awash with idiots and trolls.
A pretty grim place.
I know they all sit like Flavour Flav timing his ascents...
So.... how did his time up compare with Armstrong?
A pretty grim place.
I know they all sit like Flavour Flav timing his ascents...
So.... how did his time up compare with Armstrong?
I think he was 5 seconds slow than Pantani but don't quote me on it
no mayo has the record at 45.47, pantani was 46.00. Froome was about 49.00
-MONT VENTOUX (last 15.65 km [from St. Esteve], 8.74 %, 1368 m)
----TOP 50 LIST
-1. Lance Armstrong _____ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Andy Schleck ________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-3. Alberto Contador ____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-4. Lance Armstrong _____ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-5. Marco Pantani _______ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-6. Lance Armstrong _____ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Frank Schleck _______ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-8. Roman Kreuziger _____ CZE | 49:05 | 2009
-9. Franco Pellizotti ___ ITA | 49:15 | 2009
10. Vincenzo Nibali _____ ITA | 49:17 | 2009
11. Bradley Wiggins _____ GBR | 49:22 | 2009
12. Joseba Beloki _______ ESP | 49:26 | 2000
13. Jan Ullrich _________ GER | 49:30 | 2000
14. Raimondas Rumsas ____ LTU | 49:49 | 2002
15. Roberto Heras _______ ESP | 49:49 | 2000
16. Ivan Basso __________ ITA | 49:52 | 2002
17. Jurgen van den Broeck BEL | 49:58 | 2009
18. Andreaas Klöden _____ GER | 50:01 | 2009
19. Francisco Mancebo ___ ESP | 50:04 | 2002
20. Joseba Beloki _______ ESP | 50:18 | 2002
21. Richard Virenque ____ FRA | 50:18 | 2000
22. Francisco Mancebo ___ ESP | 50:24 | 2000
23. Manuel Beltran ______ ESP | 50:30 | 2000
24. Christophe Moreau ___ FRA | 50:32 | 2000
25. Santiago Botero _____ COL | 50:34 | 2000
26. Kurt van de Wouwer __ BEL | 50:37 | 2000
27. Levi Leipheimer _____ USA | 50:38 | 2002
28. Christophe Le Mevel _ FRA | 50:45 | 2009
29. Christian Vandevelde_ USA | 50:53 | 2009
30. Jose Azevedo ________ POR | 50:58 | 2002
-MONT VENTOUX (last 15.65 km [from St. Esteve], 8.74 %, 1368 m)
----TOP 50 LIST
-1. Lance Armstrong _____ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Andy Schleck ________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-3. Alberto Contador ____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-4. Lance Armstrong _____ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-5. Marco Pantani _______ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-6. Lance Armstrong _____ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Frank Schleck _______ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-8. Roman Kreuziger _____ CZE | 49:05 | 2009
-9. Franco Pellizotti ___ ITA | 49:15 | 2009
10. Vincenzo Nibali _____ ITA | 49:17 | 2009
11. Bradley Wiggins _____ GBR | 49:22 | 2009
12. Joseba Beloki _______ ESP | 49:26 | 2000
13. Jan Ullrich _________ GER | 49:30 | 2000
14. Raimondas Rumsas ____ LTU | 49:49 | 2002
15. Roberto Heras _______ ESP | 49:49 | 2000
16. Ivan Basso __________ ITA | 49:52 | 2002
17. Jurgen van den Broeck BEL | 49:58 | 2009
18. Andreaas Klöden _____ GER | 50:01 | 2009
19. Francisco Mancebo ___ ESP | 50:04 | 2002
20. Joseba Beloki _______ ESP | 50:18 | 2002
21. Richard Virenque ____ FRA | 50:18 | 2000
22. Francisco Mancebo ___ ESP | 50:24 | 2000
23. Manuel Beltran ______ ESP | 50:30 | 2000
24. Christophe Moreau ___ FRA | 50:32 | 2000
25. Santiago Botero _____ COL | 50:34 | 2000
26. Kurt van de Wouwer __ BEL | 50:37 | 2000
27. Levi Leipheimer _____ USA | 50:38 | 2002
28. Christophe Le Mevel _ FRA | 50:45 | 2009
29. Christian Vandevelde_ USA | 50:53 | 2009
30. Jose Azevedo ________ POR | 50:58 | 2002
vetooo @ammattipyoraily 2m
#TDF: Mont Ventoux (last 15.65 km, 8.74 %, 1368 m): Chris Froome: 48 min 35 sec (+/- 5 sec). What do you think? Is it close or not?
#TDF: Mont Ventoux (last 15.65 km, 8.74 %, 1368 m): Chris Froome: 48 min 35 sec (+/- 5 sec). What do you think? Is it close or not?
Interesting how if you speak your mind you're regarded by some as a troll. That's been the UCI attitude for years ;-)
Happybacker -- well done on reading the race. Might not have been the best value for you, but nevertheless Froome the clear winner. And your observation of Pinot in the form of a warning to an earlier poster was spot on -- knocked up badly nearly 20mins behind and clearly out-of-sorts. Also, Hejsedal, another not in the best of health and could've really been double that price.
Thoroughly enjoyable race -- perhaps surprising to have seen Quintana go so early again, I guess Valverde may not be the best influence, as Clay inferred.
Cheers,
SP
Thoroughly enjoyable race -- perhaps surprising to have seen Quintana go so early again, I guess Valverde may not be the best influence, as Clay inferred.
Cheers,
SP
rider from lucrative untapped territory/market, mediocre record, debilitating disease cured then overnight transformation to domination of both climbs and time trials, same jump in ascent rates. Same old story, same scumbags running the sport. you'd have to either be extremely naive not to suspect him or else you haven't been following cycling for more than 3 years max. The parallels are ridiculous.
Since McQuaid became president of UCI his stated ambition from day 1 has been to grow and globalise the sport into new territories. LA grew it hugely in the US and now we're seeing it grown in the UK and Africa too. Farcical
Since McQuaid became president of UCI his stated ambition from day 1 has been to grow and globalise the sport into new territories. LA grew it hugely in the US and now we're seeing it grown in the UK and Africa too. Farcical
We all knew the Armstrong cat would come out the bag sooner or later.
If there is any evidence to be pinned on Froome I'm all ears, I have not heard anything worth listening to yet.
These last 3 Tour winners (Should Froome win) are ones I believe in for the first time in all the Tours I have watched from the Indurain years, If I am proved wrong in a few years time then more fool me.
If there is any evidence to be pinned on Froome I'm all ears, I have not heard anything worth listening to yet.
These last 3 Tour winners (Should Froome win) are ones I believe in for the first time in all the Tours I have watched from the Indurain years, If I am proved wrong in a few years time then more fool me.
Fed you will not get a positive test against Froome from the UCI if that's the evidence you are looking for. You are extremely naive not to suspect IMO.
I did not say I am waiting for a test off the UCI, they are a stinking organisation, you do not need to persuade me of that.
But it is all too big not to come out eventually, Micheal Rodgers or any ex rider, the Rabobank doctor, a coach from within. If any of these or someone else with credibility from within can pin something on him I'd love to hear, and I am no Sky fanboy...
There is only so much you can listen to from 'Forum detectives' who have an agenda.
Perhaps I will be proved wrong in believing in Cadel, Brad and Chris.
Who do you believe is clean Lurka?
But it is all too big not to come out eventually, Micheal Rodgers or any ex rider, the Rabobank doctor, a coach from within. If any of these or someone else with credibility from within can pin something on him I'd love to hear, and I am no Sky fanboy...
There is only so much you can listen to from 'Forum detectives' who have an agenda.
Perhaps I will be proved wrong in believing in Cadel, Brad and Chris.
Who do you believe is clean Lurka?
i don't think any of the top riders are clean. doping has been part of the sport for 100 years and is impossible to stamp out.
We have been pretty well conditioned to be very suspicious through the years, you have to be.
Time will tell though.
Time will tell though.
Just look at the names surrounding Froome and Wiggins on that list ^
mayo's record time of 45.47 was set on a 56 minute time trial. pantani's 46.00 was set on a 220km stage which was flat til Ventoux and it wasn't a mountain top finish (there was a descent then flat after Ventoux until finish) so you can't compare those two stages with today.
Yes, I hope time will tell too but if doped hopefully we won't have to wait 13 years like in LA case.
mayo's record time of 45.47 was set on a 56 minute time trial. pantani's 46.00 was set on a 220km stage which was flat til Ventoux and it wasn't a mountain top finish (there was a descent then flat after Ventoux until finish) so you can't compare those two stages with today.
Yes, I hope time will tell too but if doped hopefully we won't have to wait 13 years like in LA case.
I reckon if an insider is to squeal (assuming they are doped) it might well be wiggins. I don't think he is that mentally stable and is the type of guy that it wouldn't sit well with, would eat away at him over time. Rogers is a career doper and omerta merchant IMO.
As was said the wind was beneficial today though, on another day the placings on todays stage would be the same and the times nigh on 5 minutes slower.
I am off out on my bike now it has cooled down. Later.
I am off out on my bike now it has cooled down. Later.
Tin foil hat brigade in the thread, sure there are better conspiracy theories out there for you boys.
What a great ride from Froome, great to see.
What a great ride from Froome, great to see.
Whatever about the wind (ITV were claiming it was a head wind all day btw ) the pace for the first 3 hours was extrodinary at 47 kph.This on a very long stage before tacking the mountain ,which is done in a time only dopers could dream of ?
Where did I leave my tin foil hat ?
Where did I leave my tin foil hat ?
Only minutes after the dominant display of climbing from Chris Froome on Mont Ventoux the Saxo-Tinkoff directeur sportif Fabrizio Guidi stated that the winner of the 100th Tour de France had yet to be decided.
“There are still opportunities in this race and we're highly motivated,” said the Italian. “Froome shouldn't rest assure of the overall win just yet.”
Many other have seen the performances of the yellow jersey in stage 15 and felt demoralised. Nairo Quintana, for example, was closest to the stage winner on Mont Ventoux but he shook his head at the very sight of Froome riding the trainer after winning the stage, increasing his advantage on second overall (Bauke Mollema), and collecting his eighth yellow jersey. “I'm exhausted,” said the Colombian, “and all I want to do is rest.”
“There are still opportunities in this race and we're highly motivated,” said the Italian. “Froome shouldn't rest assure of the overall win just yet.”
Many other have seen the performances of the yellow jersey in stage 15 and felt demoralised. Nairo Quintana, for example, was closest to the stage winner on Mont Ventoux but he shook his head at the very sight of Froome riding the trainer after winning the stage, increasing his advantage on second overall (Bauke Mollema), and collecting his eighth yellow jersey. “I'm exhausted,” said the Colombian, “and all I want to do is rest.”
I can explain:
tail wind; better road surfaces; better bikes, nutrition, training, dedication, and PR to put out the story.
tail wind; better road surfaces; better bikes, nutrition, training, dedication, and PR to put out the story.
Been out most of the afternoon, but all i can say is hilarious most of the posts on here, so funny.
Was anybody expecting Froome to be beat on this seasons form?? No!
Go back to the start of the tour, like i and a lot of other people said, Froome will walk this because all his serious rivals are totally out of form. I mentioned there will be shocks on the podium (Mollema) because contador, Valverde,Rodriguez, etc, just aren't riding that well this year,
I really don't know what people expected, you have a rider at the top of his game, primed to the minute, riding against rivals who have had better days and are not at their best for sure this year.
I am totally bemused by the shock and negative reactions regarding Froome???
Please tell me on this seasons form who you thought was going to be close to Froome?? The only other tour rider who has showed consistent form all year is Porte, and he was never going to be close to Froome, we know that by a mile from their training figures who is the best there!
A lot of people will always believe in conspiracys and the like, but to me the results here bear out what has happened all year.
I know what i know and i am very sure on how clean these results are. The bitterness being spouted, is the reason i moved back to the UK from France this year.
Was anybody expecting Froome to be beat on this seasons form?? No!
Go back to the start of the tour, like i and a lot of other people said, Froome will walk this because all his serious rivals are totally out of form. I mentioned there will be shocks on the podium (Mollema) because contador, Valverde,Rodriguez, etc, just aren't riding that well this year,
I really don't know what people expected, you have a rider at the top of his game, primed to the minute, riding against rivals who have had better days and are not at their best for sure this year.
I am totally bemused by the shock and negative reactions regarding Froome???
Please tell me on this seasons form who you thought was going to be close to Froome?? The only other tour rider who has showed consistent form all year is Porte, and he was never going to be close to Froome, we know that by a mile from their training figures who is the best there!
A lot of people will always believe in conspiracys and the like, but to me the results here bear out what has happened all year.
I know what i know and i am very sure on how clean these results are. The bitterness being spouted, is the reason i moved back to the UK from France this year.
Irish celtic have you ever done any serious exercise?? Warming down is just as important, if not more, than warming up! So whatever you think Quintana said is well wide of the mark, because i can guarantee almost all the riders warmed down in some way after that stage, they don't just walk off to the bar!
HB - u are so so naive. Bet you were a massive Armstrong fan as well and a denier too
The way the piece is written infers something. Quintana shakes his head and admits he is completely exhausted as Froome pedals away happily on his training bike.No prizes for guessing what Quintana is thinking.
It just seems abnormal,and when things have looked abnormal in the past...well we all know the story.
It just seems abnormal,and when things have looked abnormal in the past...well we all know the story.
Well said Happybacker, completely with you, the reaction is disappointing.
ClayDavis you're a child, "Contador this, Contador that, he'll stuff Froome, he's improving, blah blah blah"... Contador loses... "CHEATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT"
ClayDavis you're a child, "Contador this, Contador that, he'll stuff Froome, he's improving, blah blah blah"... Contador loses... "CHEATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT"
HB you are deluded and you are ignoring the ascent times/rates of Froome in comparison to know rampant EPO/Blood dopers. he might be in better 'form' as you call it in comparison to his rivals but you shouldn't be comparing him to them, compare him to previous times if you feel that. Explain that? And his all year round form without any dips is completely abnormal as well. Even LA never showed that.
Brailsford 2012: Climbing speeds are down, peleton is cleaner. Multiple attacks on mountain stages are a sign of doping. You can't attack from far out on mountain stages anymore. (paraphrasing).
Brailsford 2013: Clean performances will eventually beat the times of previous dopers. 1-2 days later Froome ascends AX3, 1-2 weeks later he ascends Ventoux at the same rate as rampant EPO/Blood dopers.
You have to be a complete and utter mug to believe this blatant horseh1t.
Brailsford 2012: Climbing speeds are down, peleton is cleaner. Multiple attacks on mountain stages are a sign of doping. You can't attack from far out on mountain stages anymore. (paraphrasing).
Brailsford 2013: Clean performances will eventually beat the times of previous dopers. 1-2 days later Froome ascends AX3, 1-2 weeks later he ascends Ventoux at the same rate as rampant EPO/Blood dopers.
You have to be a complete and utter mug to believe this blatant horseh1t.
Headline from Dutch paper today 'Froome Alien on Ventoux'. He has gone way over the top and people are no longer going to keep quiet about it.
I really didn't see myself winning this stage today. I thought I’d have to surrender the stage to Quintana in the final. My main objective was to get more of a buffer on the GC. But I didn't see myself winning that stage today – I really cant believe it," Froome said at the finish
NONSENSE
NONSENSE
Yes Lurka i was a fan of Armstrong to a degree, but things were different then. The whole field and i mean everyone, was doping so it was a level playing field, he wasn't gaining an advantage, because they were all at it. Thats just how it was back then. I was never one to stick up for Armstrong, there was no need, everyone knew he was doping, they all were.
Where as now cycling is the most tested sport in the world, the technology now has revolutionized the sport!
I know you don't believe sky's training methods, and super technological advances in equipment make anything but marginal gains. Which is true on flat stages, but in the mountains these marginal gains become huge gains. That is what we are seeing here, apart from an obviously very talented rider, the team that has changed the sport. If you watched a Sky training camp, and then went to see a Europcar training camp for example, you would see the huge difference, there is no comparison.
Where as now cycling is the most tested sport in the world, the technology now has revolutionized the sport!
I know you don't believe sky's training methods, and super technological advances in equipment make anything but marginal gains. Which is true on flat stages, but in the mountains these marginal gains become huge gains. That is what we are seeing here, apart from an obviously very talented rider, the team that has changed the sport. If you watched a Sky training camp, and then went to see a Europcar training camp for example, you would see the huge difference, there is no comparison.
I suspose you could claim a level playing field in the Armstrong era if you argue that
- anybody can have the sports governing body onside when they make a mistake (i.e push things to far) with their doping regime
- anybody can pay the best doping doc in the business £100k a year on an exclusive retainer
- like all pharmaceuticals - different individuals respond to different extents - but that's no different to inherant talent right ?
- anybody can have the sports governing body onside when they make a mistake (i.e push things to far) with their doping regime
- anybody can pay the best doping doc in the business £100k a year on an exclusive retainer
- like all pharmaceuticals - different individuals respond to different extents - but that's no different to inherant talent right ?
So many are seeing things that are not there.
I'm all ears to proper evidence, not heard anything yet.
Greg Henderson Twitter-
Greg Henderson @Greghenderson1 17h
Tailwind up the whole climb helped my watts per kilo guys so don't go getting too impressed by my time up Ventoux.
Froome said after the stage Quintana lost his wheel with no real increase in the pace, he was cooked.
Quintana had after all been on the attack from 15k's out...
Strangely Armstrong in a roundabout way made me chuck cycling myself for a good few years, I never liked him and would refuse to spin up hills like he did preferring to 'Ulrich' it and grind up in a gear that I had no right grinding with my fitness levels.
And yes, I was suspicious of these two way back.
I'm all ears to proper evidence, not heard anything yet.
Greg Henderson Twitter-
Greg Henderson @Greghenderson1 17h
Tailwind up the whole climb helped my watts per kilo guys so don't go getting too impressed by my time up Ventoux.
Froome said after the stage Quintana lost his wheel with no real increase in the pace, he was cooked.
Quintana had after all been on the attack from 15k's out...
Strangely Armstrong in a roundabout way made me chuck cycling myself for a good few years, I never liked him and would refuse to spin up hills like he did preferring to 'Ulrich' it and grind up in a gear that I had no right grinding with my fitness levels.
And yes, I was suspicious of these two way back.
There's always the possibilty that Sky with their weakened team had recruited (paid) Quintana to go up the road and stay there about 15 secs up and wait for Froome so the 2 could both work together to their mutual advantage. Similar dodgy alliance with Contador (Saxo-Tinkoff) and the Spanish rider from Euskatel-Euskadi after Contador had been dropped by Froome.
These TDF favours are traditioinally repaid at the Worlds or when next year's contracts come round.
These TDF favours are traditioinally repaid at the Worlds or when next year's contracts come round.
The Henderson tweet was sarcastic, there is no way there was a tailwind all the way up the climb. Liggett constantly referred to a headwind and said there was a tailwind only for the last few km. The climb is not straight and the weather verifies that it was a headwind/crosswind for the majority of the climb. The climb was not straight, so how could there be a tailwind all the way up it? There are numerous switchbacks.
HB if you think LA had a level playing field you are deluded. He had exclusive access to the best Ferrari programmes and had the UCI behind him. He even had Tyler popped when he felt he was a threat.
And will you please address/explain the massive contradictions in Brailsford's comments that I have highlighted above. He is making it up as he goes along because he knows what is coming next.
HB if you think LA had a level playing field you are deluded. He had exclusive access to the best Ferrari programmes and had the UCI behind him. He even had Tyler popped when he felt he was a threat.
And will you please address/explain the massive contradictions in Brailsford's comments that I have highlighted above. He is making it up as he goes along because he knows what is coming next.
Henderson finished 32.46 mins down on Froome, 146th out of 181 riders. '...don't go getting too impressed by my time up Ventoux'.
If you can't detect the hint of sarcasm in his tweet then good luck to you.
If you can't detect the hint of sarcasm in his tweet then good luck to you.
had to laugh at the itv comms..."and dont forget Froome was born at 6000ft in Nairobi"
I spent time in Nairobi. So have a few million locals. I've also flown at 30,000 feet.
I watched the highlights of Mont Ventoux again last night.
Froome three times sprinted away from Quintana on 10 degree slopes after 210 kms of cycling.
I watched the highlights of Mont Ventoux again last night.
Froome three times sprinted away from Quintana on 10 degree slopes after 210 kms of cycling.
Mountain High by Daniel Friebe and Pete Goding has 10.1 average from 8km to 9km; 11.2 from 21km to finish from Bedoin, and 12% ramps in km 7 and km 21
on Mont Ventoux
on Mont Ventoux
Jul 15, 2013 -- 3:41PM, kincsem wrote:
I spent time in Nairobi. So have a few million locals. I've also flown at 30,000 feet. I watched the highlights of Mont Ventoux again last night.Froome three times sprinted away from Quintana on 10 degree slopes after 210 kms of cycling.
Hadn't noticed this thread.
If you read what Quintana said after the stage he mentioned that Froome would gift him the stage if Quintana worked with him to get more time on the other GC contenders. Quintana commented that he thought Froome was taking him as a lot stronger than he actually was, so bluffed for a few KM's before dropping.
The most interesting thing for me at the end of the race was J-Rod taking about 30 seconds(?) on Froome at the end of the climb. Makes me wonder what he could have done if he had reached Nieve earlier instead of sitting on the Ten Dam group.
Purito came out of nowhere, must have been great odds for top3 if you had the fastest pics, but he probably knew he couldn't go for more than 1km.
Do you know who Henderson is?
He has as much chance of finishing in the top 50 up Ventoux as a Euskatel rider has winning Paris Roubaix...
He has as much chance of finishing in the top 50 up Ventoux as a Euskatel rider has winning Paris Roubaix...
Don't know what all the fuss is about. He's done a slower time than the dopers, despite a fast peloton, several team mates dragging him up and Quintana up the road who worked with him. He also had a tailwind. And he needed oxygen at the top.
The remarkable thing was that he left everyone so far behind but if you look at who he beat, a load of old dopers and deadbeats, is it really that surprising? I think not.
Quintana was comfortably second, and it says much about the quality of the rest of this field because he's a rookie and a kid.
This isnt a giant muscleman on a motorbike like Armstrong we're talking about here, but a skinny kid that grew up at altitude (as did Quintana). His performance yesterday was entirely normal.
The remarkable thing was that he left everyone so far behind but if you look at who he beat, a load of old dopers and deadbeats, is it really that surprising? I think not.
Quintana was comfortably second, and it says much about the quality of the rest of this field because he's a rookie and a kid.
This isnt a giant muscleman on a motorbike like Armstrong we're talking about here, but a skinny kid that grew up at altitude (as did Quintana). His performance yesterday was entirely normal.
Fed what is your point? My point was that his tweet was 100% sarcasm but people are taking it as evidence of a tailwind. Completely incorrect.
"This isnt a giant muscleman on a motorbike like Armstrong we're talking about here, but a skinny kid that grew up at altitude (as did Quintana)"
marychain1 - how do u explain this "skinny kid" almost beating Tony Martin (would have beaten him if the wind hadn't got up late on) in a fast, flat TT?
marychain1 - how do u explain this "skinny kid" almost beating Tony Martin (would have beaten him if the wind hadn't got up late on) in a fast, flat TT?
Look, I cannot be bothered. I have better things to do.
Come back when you have some sort of proof, we will all know in 10 years whether we have 'been had'
I do not go to The Clinic to avoid this stuff, not cause my head is in the sand but because I cannot be arsed arguing with people on a computer.
I can do that with my mates down the pub.
Come back when you have some sort of proof, we will all know in 10 years whether we have 'been had'
I do not go to The Clinic to avoid this stuff, not cause my head is in the sand but because I cannot be arsed arguing with people on a computer.
I can do that with my mates down the pub.
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