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13 Jun 13 17:56
Date Joined: 07 Sep 10
| Topic/replies: 8,456 | Blogger: ClayDavis's blog
Froome at odds on??? Are u having a giraffe? How long will it be before the Sky team are riding for Richie Porte during the TDF 2013? Cool
Only one race has mattered to Contador all season long and he has been gradually building up to this race, slowly but surely.
His record in Grand Tours is superb. He is a brilliant cyclist. Will be well suited by this year's route.
Smashed Froome to pieces in last year's Vuelta.
3-1 is an outstanding price for Contador.
Odds on after 1st mountain stage and then easily mark his opponents for rest of the race.
Pause Switch to Standard View ***CONTADOR WINS THE TOUR DE FRANCE...
Show More
Report OnTheChase July 6, 2013 9:44 PM BST
Stage 8 thread.  Clay Davis - "Reminded me of Floyd Landis."
Report ClayDavis July 6, 2013 9:55 PM BST
Apologies. I meant Lance Armstrong. Landis is a nobody
Report OnTheChase July 6, 2013 9:59 PM BST
OK.  Lets move on with the rest of the Tour.
Report ClayDavis July 6, 2013 10:26 PM BST
Yes. Let's hope the dopers don't succeed
Report lurka July 6, 2013 10:46 PM BST
Here is a list of top 100 times for taday's climb to give you an idea of the company Froome is in

Her even beat Contadope's 2010 time, from the year he was stripped. And today there was apparently a headwind on the climb today and Porte came over the line grinning and laughing.

Clay Sky are on something new which Bertie and the rest don't have access to. They simply cannot compete, nobody can. No wonder Brailsford said this week that clean performances would eventually surpass doped performances. he knew this was coming. He wants us to believe that the human race has evolved significantly in the last 10 years. Crazy
Report boycie1 July 6, 2013 11:39 PM BST
Amazin they didnt win the TTT considerin the team is hyped up?? Also strange Froome was left with only Porte on the final climb considering "sky are on something new"! Portes form is in the book, Froome has battered Contador all year...Would you expect Ten Dam to take over 30 secs on Contador and Purito before the stage? Are Belkin on drugs too? Bertie has already taken to twitter to say he had a bad day. Im not attackin you for your stats or thoughts as they could well turn out to be true but as a cycling fan i would prefer to appreciate a domininant performance from FROOME today, hats off ****....and Clay its ok to admit you made a mistake, take it on the chin son
Report lurka July 7, 2013 12:19 AM BST
you would prefer to appreciate a performance which beats the times of about 20 known doped performances? Froome's performance today was like Riis hautacam 1996 and you are a bit naive not to question it if you are a real cycling fan.
Report boycie1 July 7, 2013 12:45 AM BST
read what i wrote lurka, i said it could well turn out to be true...but i doubt it...on that point were the boys in 2010 who beat Portes time on drugs as well? Gesink for example?
Report lurka July 7, 2013 1:17 AM BST
I would say anyone in the top 30 on that list is highly suspicious. gesink rode with Rabobank under Sky's old friend Dr Leinders, not in 2010 but I would still say highly likely he was doped
Report boycie1 July 7, 2013 1:26 AM BST
Agreed but even look at Purito, hes did that mountain over a minute quicker in years gone by...anyway lets see what the rest of the tour brings
Report marychain1 July 7, 2013 1:35 AM BST
I have always been vehement that Sky are clean but today's performance was not normal.
Report bb66 July 7, 2013 1:49 AM BST
tbh, I don't see it as as dominant a performance from the whole team as we've seen it previously, only from Froome, Porte and maybe Kennaugh
Report ClayDavis July 7, 2013 8:48 AM BST
I saw Purito interviewed on French TV and he seemed genuinely shocked
Report Happybacker July 7, 2013 4:13 PM BST
I don't know why anyone was shocked or thought yesterdays performance was not normal??
Froome and Porte blasted everyone away just like they have done all year, i don't not what anyone else was expecting?? They have done that in race after race this season. The fact that Ten Dam, Nieve, Anton,Kreuziger, etc were all less than 2 mins down shows how normal it was. An on-form Contador and Rodriguez would have expected to put over a minute in to the likes of Ten Dam and Anton on climb like that, not finish along side them!. It just shows that like we suspected going in to the race, that Contador and Rodriguez just aren't on top of their form.
Report ClayDavis July 7, 2013 7:02 PM BST
Bertie getting stronger and better bit by bit. He will be at full tilt in the Alps and he will eat Froome alive like he did in the Vuelta!! I'm topping up on Bertie Cool
Report chamberlain July 7, 2013 7:15 PM BST
Agree with you or not ClayDavis (and I do not), I have to admire your optimism.
Report lurka July 8, 2013 12:00 AM BST
Happybacker, yesterday was not about how dominant Froome and Porte were, it was about the numbers and Froome's time was the 3rd all time best and the top 30 or more are known or highly suspicious EPO users. there is nothing suspicious about being stronger than the rest on one stage but when you match Armstrong's time (in fact froome was faster over one particular section), then it simply has to be questioned when we are being told that it's a clean new era and that those days are gone. And kreuziger has admitted working with ferrari.

Froome's comment yesterday that cycling has changed he couldn't have done what he did yesterday if cycling hadn't changed is absolute nonsense and doesn't make any sense. If cycling hadn't changed of course he could have done what he did yesterday just like all the others did.
Report ClayDavis July 8, 2013 8:34 AM BST
And Armstrong didn't have to climb the Col de Pailhères chasing a savage Colombian climber before recording his time on Ax 3 Domaines!!!
Report Happybacker July 8, 2013 9:26 AM BST
Lurka there are huge differences between now and the past, that mean times no should always be quicker. For one thing the bikes and yhe kit weigh a fraction of what they used to. You go and feel the weight of a bike now and a bike from 15 years ago and there is such a massive difference. To ride full tilt up a mountain like Froome did virtually timetrialling it, the weight and the mechanics of the bike are so much better now compared to even Armstrongs era,and this is one of the things Froome is talking about when he says cycling has changed. Another thing that has changed is the training methods, Sky have revolutionized this. If you could see the work and the technology that goes in to their training programmes over the winter months, you would understand why they can turn out such good performances. It really is down to the fact that sky havetotally changed the whole kit from what they wear to the bike, to how they train, it is just a very different era!
You wouldn't say that Usain Bolt is much better than Jesse Owens just cos his times are much better, because we all know he has much better kit and is running on much better tracks and has much better training methods than Owens did.
And it is the same for cycling, things have moved on, you can't compare times from past era's with todays.
The most relevant thing is that the likes of Ten Dam, Mollema, Kreuziger, were not that far behind and were in front of Contador and Rodriguez, i think that shows you that they just under performed rather than Froome doing anything out of this world.
Another thing if you want to compare Froome to Armstrong. Froome is a much more natural climber, his weight, his build, being bought up at altitude, this is where Armstrong needed additives to improve his climbing because he wasn't a natural out and out climber.
Report lurka July 8, 2013 8:07 PM BST
Happybacker, if you believe all that marginal gains guff from Sky then there is no convincing you. Armstrong couldn't dope because he had cancer blah blah. there is always something to throw you off otherwise there is only one explanation.

The power estimations for froome take into account the weight of the bike and I don't think the lighter weights over the last 10 years make that much of a difference anyway, it is not just about time/speed but about power and power takes yours and the bike's weight into account. Why weren't riders on lighter bikes doing the same as Froome 2 years ago then? You say mean times should always be quicker? Look at the list and tell me how many in the top 100 are from 2012 or 2011? There are a good few from 2010 but almost every one of them is either a proven doper or highly suspected EPO user. I can't see anyone in the top 100 from 2006-2009 inclusive. Your point that mean times now should always be quicker is not backed up by the facts. Simply put, we have seen a huge jump in the climbing rate by Froome out of nowhere. He may as well have got into a time machine and gone back to 2003.

Sky would have you believe that Europeans don't have a clue how to train or prepare and that everything they do is new, European teams have been cycling for 100 years and are vastly more experienced than the Brits. EPO increases performance 10-15%. Are you saying that marginal gains can make that up?! nonsense IMO.

PDM in the early 1990s came out with all this marginal gains guff before except British people tend not to be aware of that because there was no interest from the general public back then. It is easy for Brailsford to fool the general british public because they've only been following cycling fully for one year. Not saying you are in that bunch tho, of course. We know now what the real reason for PDM's super performances were.

You can believe all that Brailsford says if you want but the man contradicts himself nearly every time he opens his mouth. We have been told for the last few years by all cycling stakeholders that it is a new era post-Lance and that 'Climbing speeds are down, that's how you know that the peleton is cleaner.' Well that all changed in one fell swoop this year.

We are led to believe that Froome is a late bloomer who showed no cycling prowess in his youth because he had a disease called Bilharzia. But he admits that he only contracted it in Nov 2010, so that doesn't wash either. It is a parasitic disease that eats your red blood cells and he has to get treatment for it every year, giving him a readymade explanation for large fluctuations in his blood-passport.

You say Froome is a natural climber. well he couldn't climb at all until 2-3 years ago, so that is simply not true. He was kicked out of the giro for taking a push from a team car before his astonishing rise from virtually nowhere and there is a video of him on his first tour where he was zig-zagging up a climb like he'd never been up a mountain before.

And if you believe Usain Bolt is clean then good luck to you!
Report lurka July 8, 2013 8:10 PM BST
we are not told what this Bilharzia treatment involves, it could involve EPO for all we know, he may even have a TUE for it
Report kincsem July 9, 2013 5:36 PM BST
The Tour is over, this year and every year.
Report Happybacker July 9, 2013 10:27 PM BST
Disagree with almost everything you've put there Lurka but hey the world would be a boring place if we all agreed about everything!
Report Tavaris Jackson July 10, 2013 10:10 AM BST
Look at the list and tell me how many in the top 100 are from 2012 or 2011? There are a good few from 2010 but almost every one of them is either a proven doper or highly suspected EPO user. I can't see anyone in the top 100 from 2006-2009 inclusive.

Ax 3 Domaines
Year     Stage     Category     Start of stage     Distance (km)     Stage winner     Yellow jersey
2013    8    1    Castres    195    Chris Froome    Chris Froome
2010    14    1    Revel    184.5    Christophe Riblon     Andy Schleck
2005    14    1    Agde    220.5    Georg Totschnig    Lance Armstrong
2003    13    1    Toulouse    197.5    Carlos Sastre    Lance Armstrong
2001    12    1    Perpignan    166.5    Félix Cárdenas     François Simon
Report ClayDavis July 10, 2013 4:35 PM BST
Up into 4th place now - great stuff Bertie - will be a straight fight between Bertie and Froome after Ventoux
Report bb66 July 10, 2013 4:37 PM BST
no chance for AC - doped or not
Report lurka July 10, 2013 7:30 PM BST
Sorry yes the stage (AX3 stage) has only been ridden 4 times before, my bad Blush

But that doesn't change the fact that all the 'climbing speeds are down' claims were blown out of the water.

Froome is Indurain plus Pantani rolled into one after today.
Report treetop July 10, 2013 7:58 PM BST
Only a fun bet for me (not a cycling fan normally) but how do you guys rate Daniel Moreno ? I have been recommended a small bet for fun and wonder if he may improve over the last half of the tour.
Report Tavaris Jackson July 10, 2013 9:34 PM BST
Talented rider, great win in the Fleche Wallonne this year but absolutely no chance of a podium here.
Report lurka July 11, 2013 8:43 AM BST
treetop interested to know what bet you are thinking of? or is it a back to lay on the basis that his GC place improves?
Report SwingingPick July 11, 2013 5:00 PM BST
Didn't see Fleche Wallonne this year since no pictures, but definitely agree with Tavaris that he's a talented rider. Got the podium at Criterium du Dauphine as a lead-in so is in better form than his present position on GC, and as a third week GT rider, he can easily improve and get into the top 10, although I'm not sure there'd be much movement in his price if as lurka suspects the bet consideration is for a trade?

Good luck,
Report lurka July 11, 2013 10:39 PM BST
Nice question dodge from Froome when asked about vayer's estimate of 440W for the AX3 Climb only

Froome: I don't think it's possible to do 440W for an entire stage

That's not what you were asked
Report ClayDavis July 12, 2013 4:16 PM BST

No doubt SP will be along later to say there is 'no evidence' to suggest Bertie is improving as the race goes on LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report lurka July 12, 2013 4:41 PM BST
Good day for you Clay. I did expect Froome to give away time at some point (not today tho) as his domination is leading to more and more people starting to ask uncomfortable questions. You never know tho, he only has 6 teammates left!
Report LV July 12, 2013 4:52 PM BST
Guys - i heard a contador interview the other day on spanish radio ( one of their evening - sports bulletins, a good 15 min chat) he said that on the stage to AX3 - Domains, he didnt quite eat and hidrate himself as he would have liked on the run to the last climb and he believed that was the main reason he belived he lost that much time to froome on the ascent to domains, serious dehidration...he said he obviously wouldnt be at his best in the first week of the tour as his whole season was geared to being really strong in the last week - and he said "THIS TOUR IS NO WAY OVER - I WILL GET STRONGER AND I NEVER GIVE UP ANYWAY!"...I Backed him at 50/1 on here straight away on the strength of his confidence in serving it up to froome...and he also said he expected to lose 1.30 mins to froome on the flat TT but serve it up to him on the mountainous TT...Clay, i agree with you & movistar will isolate froome in the alps...froome now HAS to react to kreuziger attacts as well as will blast off looking for stage wins and the alpine stages are gonna be complete anarchy as sky cannot control this race ! buenas tardes !
Report LV July 12, 2013 4:54 PM BST
p.s - he also said he suffered with serious pollen alergy problems all day riding on the stage to AX 3 - domains.
Report SwingingPick July 12, 2013 4:55 PM BST
Settle down Clay, a brilliant move by Bertie's team, no doubt, and the market has responded positively for you. SP.
Report lurka July 12, 2013 5:36 PM BST
isolation is the only way. Wouldn't expect froome to lose time to bertie on MTT
Report Happybacker July 12, 2013 10:02 PM BST
Clay i admire the confidence you have in your conviction and thats  as it should be.

Hats off today to Contador, but don't get too carried away. He is such a very clever rider, possibly one of the cleverest ever, and has an unbelievable knack of knowing when to attack. But i think the fact he has to attack on these straight forward looking stages these days, is an indication he knows he doesn't quite have the legs for the mountains he used to have. He did a very similar thing to Purito at the vuelta and unfortunately for Rodriguez he wasn't as far ahead as Froome is now, and so subsequently lost the lead of the race. But even after that Contador still didn't beat Rodriguez on any of the mountain top finishes! And I don't belive he will beat Froome on any of the mountain stages here. His best chances lie in the TT (can't really see him beating Froome there tho either) and in another surprise stage or 2. I know you think he will break Froome in the alps but the way i see it is, that is where froome will really stretch his lead, after he takes another minute or so on Ventoux on sunday!

But fair play to you Clay, he is putting up a hell of a fight, and even if he isn't in the greatest of form, he's showing he is a true competitor and fighter, and is helping to make this a great tour to watch.
Report bb66 July 12, 2013 11:16 PM BST
agree about the necessity for AC to attack on the flat, but this kind of attack was born in the sharp mind of Riis, not AC
Report SwingingPick July 13, 2013 10:07 AM BST
Contador now has heaped pressure on himself for the mountains, and while he'll get good support from Saxo, Froome has proven he doesn't need Sky to survive, and has dealt with the pressure of being by himself in what should've been a much more hostile group in that stage 9 encounter. I'm still confident of the scenario where Quintana does more than Bertie, but let's observe that the price for Contador hasn't returned to the price he was being offerred at antepost, I think. Market suggesting that mountain form still a big question, and opening the way for layers to re-enter their positions.

To echo Happybacker's view, fair play to Clay, and Contador confirming his remarks in the Spanish radio interview LV furnished this thread.

Report Tavaris Jackson July 13, 2013 1:28 PM BST
When the antepost market was priced up Contador didn't have a 2.45 gap to Froome so obviously the price now wouldn't be the same as then.

Valverde out of the running really hurts Contador's chance now unfortunately.
Report Happybacker July 13, 2013 1:40 PM BST
Yes and no TJ. I see where your coming from but it was Contador and Mollema who made the decision yesterday to really put Valverde out of it. I think the way Contador see's it is now he has got rid of Valverde, he can concentrate his whole effort on beating Froome.
Report Tavaris Jackson July 13, 2013 2:34 PM BST
Saxo's attack yesterday had nothing to do with Valverde. His tour ended when Movistar and Argos couldn't make any inroads into the gap to OPQS and Belkin. When Argos eventually accepted that they couldn't win the stage that was it for Valverde.

Saxo's attack was purely against Froome, had he not been dropped they'd have regrouped and tried again.

It was completely Belkin's doing that Valverde couldn't get back on, they put 7 or 8 on the front when he was off the back and never let up for a second. I think it was bad form to attack a GC rider who has a mechanical issue, especially as it happened in a feed zone and Omega Pharma were already legitimately racing on the front to keep Kittel distanced, they could have sat back for a few minutes to give him the chance to get back in there.

It's a disappointment for the last week of the race I think, the more strong riders with strong teams that were capable of challenging Froome and Sky the better for the race.
Report Happybacker July 13, 2013 2:45 PM BST
To be fair when Saxo attacked, Valverde was still only 2.40 back, and i'm sure the plan was to finish valverde but possibly do it at a time when they may catch froome out. I don't think for one moment they expected to get anything over Froome, it was just an added bonus for them.
And i don't think it effects the race to much anyway, yes it's one less rider but Movistar as a team will still be very active because Quintana desperatley wants the white jersey. And you still have Saxo and Belkin both after the yellow. So not much has changed so far, and does promise to be exciting racing in the alps, providing Froome doesn't take too much out of them on Ventoux and on the TT.
Report bb66 July 13, 2013 9:20 PM BST
MOV will be more dangerous with Quintana in full flight than concentrating on a podium for Valverde, as he is too weak in big mountains
Report ClayDavis July 13, 2013 9:27 PM BST
I agree with bb66....Quintana far more dangerous to Froome than Valerde and Valverde may have held Quintana back whereas he is free to attack now
Report treetop July 13, 2013 10:34 PM BST
Apologies for non reply lurka but my pal just said he was worth a place bet or a daft e/w at 3001 so had a couple of quid on each. No harm but it has given me several days interest wth minimal risk. He seems just off the pace but stranger things have happened in these events. Gd luck all of you.
Report bb66 July 14, 2013 3:47 PM BST
AC will have to attack next SundayLaugh
Report maff July 14, 2013 3:49 PM BST
Report ClayDavis July 14, 2013 4:14 PM BST
Bertie's mistake today was trying to go with Froome. While the others had surrendered well before, Bertie kept fighting. if he had accepted it earler he would have lost about 40/50 secs max.
He is the toughest of the tough.
Even if he finishes 2nd this year he will get the Tour in the stewards room in a few years no doubt
Report GoBallistic July 14, 2013 4:30 PM BST
He sucked wheels all the way up, first Sky then Nieve (who had attacked near the bottom). Then Nieve got fed up and dropped the leech
Report SwingingPick July 14, 2013 5:09 PM BST
Not a bad ride from Bertie, actually. Expected him to fall apart in the manner of Evans, but he did fight on like he said he would. He'll continue to fight bravely -- but do you think that's it now, for his chances getting into yellow, Clay?

Report ClayDavis July 14, 2013 5:18 PM BST
looks like he will finish 2nd SP but he is getting better all the time. Losing the Tour to someone who is Tony Martin and Pantani rolled into one is no shame
Report SwingingPick July 14, 2013 5:47 PM BST
I'm not sure about that, Clay. Quintana took 1min11secs out of Bertie today, and he's only 1min22secs behind overall, now. Asked what he wants more; the YR jersey or a podium position in Paris, and Quintana was quite clear that with all the faith the team has put in him, he'll want both.

2nd place for Bertie in massive danger of being lost I'm afraid, since you'd think that even with an improving Contador, Quintana can take more time out of him over enough suitable stages remaining. And on the other hand, Bertie only took 6secs out of Mollema, and yet is still 11secs behind the Dutch rider.

Report Happybacker July 14, 2013 10:09 PM BST
Clay please be gracious, why can't you accept what was plainly obvious before the tour started?? I and others told you that this year, for whatever reason Contador, Rodriguez, etc weren't riding that well, where as Froome was.
Every time Contador has won the tour he has been dominant all year but this ear he has struggled for top 5 finishes in every race!!

Wise up please mate, Froome is not going to lose this in any stewards room, he is just beating up on a poor field this year. Yes it looked strong on paper but the form told us it wasn't , the facts were there!! And as always the form figures don't lie. The big names can say they are saving themselves for the tour, but we as seasoned followers know that just isn't true. You don't ride yourself in to form on the tour, you come here on form, and then improve on that. Thats what happens year after year, even the years when your Bertie won.

The only rider at the minute in the same form class as Froome is Nibali, we all knew that at the start, and that hasn't changed.
Report ClayDavis July 14, 2013 10:50 PM BST
HB - I make no apologies for my views on Froome's performances. Non whatsoever.
And of Bertie is that bad. Or gone. Finished etc etc then god help the others as he is still lying in 3rd place
Report lurka July 15, 2013 4:44 AM BST
there was no tailwind today. It was a headwind/crosswind if anything. Tailwind is a myth. henderson's tweet saying he had a tailwind all the way up ventoux was sarcastic, probably a dig at the farce we saw today.
Report Happybacker July 15, 2013 8:59 AM BST
Clay I didn't make any mention of Contador being bad or gone or finished??? Just said he is not in form this year and he hasn't been.  The fact he is still 3rd shows what a good competitor he is, that even when not at the top of his game he is still up there. I haven't knocked Contador at all, he's one of the greats and has put in some legendary performances in the past.
He had seasons where he was as dominant as Froome is now. He is by no means old and so may well come good again, and win the tour again in the next year or 2. But he will have to improve his form, because for the last couple of years his climbing hasn't been at the standard it was a few years ago.
Report ClayDavis July 16, 2013 6:31 PM BST
Bertie is back CoolCoolCool And Froome is a big kid!!! "The big bad man nearly fell in front of me and then wouldn't help in the chase back.....booo hoooo booooo hoooooo"
Report buddeliea July 16, 2013 6:36 PM BST
Yeh, dont think Froome won many friends with his comments and actions today.
If Saxo want to take risks trying to gain time, up to them imo.
Froome don't need to get involved in that and don't need to make accusations either.
Report bb66 July 16, 2013 7:27 PM BST
dirty tricks from AC
Report KIMBLE July 16, 2013 8:04 PM BST
pathetic from froome, does he expect an easy time from now on just cuz he has 4 mins lead
Report Happybacker July 16, 2013 8:27 PM BST
Ha Ha you are funny Clay i'll give you that!!
But in no way is Contador back! In years gone by he would have had no trouble in dropping the likes of Mollema/porte/kreuziger etc. As a lot of people pointed out at the start of the tour, Contador had to attack on flat and intermediate stages because he just hasn't got the super mountain legs he used to have. Fact is, that is the last easy stage of the tour, from now until sunday they are all hard stages, and Contador knows he has no chance of making any time in any of them. So today was his last hurrah!

I expect Quintana will attack plenty in the alps, and will really push Froome hard, and may well end up finishing second. Just hope Mollema can hold on for 3rd!
Report buddeliea July 17, 2013 7:09 AM BST
Yeh,Contador aint the force he was in the mountains,thats clear for all to see.

He is however allowed to try and gain time wherever he can and he is a person that will keep fighting,so hats off to him in that regard.
As for Froome, shut up and just get on with it,aside from Quintana hes clearly by far the strongest climber,4 minutes plus ahead of Contador and the rest and still too dense to keep his bike a safe distance behind him!!!
He might be top dog Froome right now,and I respect his ability on a bike, but hes coming across as a bit of a pr&t imo.
Report SwingingPick July 17, 2013 9:23 AM BST
Contador pseudo-attacks a few metres up the road -- looks back to see that no one is going with him -- slows down until the group catches up -- job done -- great pseudo-attack. Laugh

Report Flying_V July 17, 2013 12:24 PM BST
Pseudo-attacker or not...dopeur or not...podium or not....I can't help loving his attitude:

"I have not been able to make differences, but hey, the legs are getting better and I hope I can give some spectacle. I don't know if we'll win or not, but I hope the people behind the TV will enjoy.

Whenever I see that there is a chance, I'll try to do something, either at the beginning or at the end of the race. And we'll see what is the final result in Paris."
Report ClayDavis July 17, 2013 4:28 PM BST
Bertie's back CoolCoolCoolCoolCool
Report geoff m July 17, 2013 4:42 PM BST
Back to what? in 2nd in front of a bunch he would have picked up and carried with a few pumped up steaks.
Report LV July 17, 2013 5:31 PM BST
The anglo saxon press have given contador such a bad press since the clenbuterol positive ...can i remind everybody that at the scientific investigation (with 3 independent medical and scientific advisors to the court of arbitration and sport) it was concluded that the miniscule amount of clenbuterol found in his urine sample could not of been through self doping for these simple reasons :

A/ he didnt test positive the day before or the day after the test for clenbuterol because the amount of clenbuterol found in Contador’s urine sample was found to contain only a minute amount of clenbuterol – 50 picograms, or 0.00005mcg. This concentration does not have  any effect on performance at all.

B/ it is IMPOSSIBLE to self induce and delf dope that miniscule amount - that amount can only be administered through contamination in food or drink or suplements.

C/ it is IMPOSSIBLE to take any meaningful amount of clenbuterol for improved performance and have it out of your system withing 24 hours ..he tested negative the day before and the day after the positive.

d/ The court of arbitration for sport decided that all the evidence overwhelmingly pointed to a positive result through food contamination and agreed with contadors defence - but banned him anyway becuase they made him responsible for having it in his system ...i.e they punished him on a technicality and administerd the rules harshly even though they came to the conclusion that he didnt dope himself !!!!!

now bearing in mind that all of europe has been eating horse meat instead of cow meat for god knows how long - can anybody be 100 per cent sure what you put in your body when you eat ?? even energy bars and vitamin supplemnens have been found to be contaminated with minute amounts of banned substances.

This is without a doubt the harshest ban ever on a cyclist who gave a positive result - dont take my word for it - read the court of arbitration for sport's own report on the case.

Mcquaid and co wanted to show off their muscle in the post armstrong era and prove that they are hunting down dopers left right and centre by pursuing contador till the end ...including banning people for obvious cases of non doping which their own evidence concluded was the case in this positive...absolute madness.
Report lurka July 17, 2013 6:10 PM BST
That's what you get when you eat fandus burgers before a stage. What about the plasticisers found? What about him and chicken rasmussen up the verbier?
Report LV July 17, 2013 6:34 PM BST
you have been reading too many science fiction stories lurka - stick to the evidence and the conclusions the INDEPENDENT ARBITRATION HEARING and its experts came too - i'l paste and copy some of it for you so that you STOP making up stupid things :

Taking into consideration the fair balance and the documentation which dismiss the
possibility that the presence of the prohibited substance is due to voluntary doping
and to the use of vitamin supplements, micro doses or blood transfusions, it is
considered that the ingestion of contaminated meat is the most probable cause for the
adverse analytical finding. In fact, the CNCDD relies on the following elements: few
controls carried out on animals in relation with the total cattle of the European
Union, rendering the European Union’s reports inconclusive; all the tests run on Mr
Contador prior to 21 July 2011 were negative; the very low concentration of
clenbuterol found in Mr Contador’s Sample which prevents the effect of enhancing
ones sports performance.
d) It is obvious that the diet of an athlete contains meat products on a regular basis and
its ingestion within the European Union has to be considered safe. Therefore, it is
possible to think that Mr Contador did not know or suspect, even exercising the
maximum prudence, that he ate meat contaminated with a prohibited substance.
Also, one cannot prevent an athlete to eat meat. The CNCDD relied on the award in CAS 2011/A/2384 UCI v. Alberto Contador Velasco & RFEC - Page 8
CAS 2011/A/2386 WADA v. Alberto Contador Velasco & RFEC
the CAS cases CAS 2009/A/1926 ITF v. Richard Gasquet and CAS 2009/A/1930
WADA v. ITF & Richard Gasquet.
e) Furthermore, the CNCDD insists that the extremely small amount found has not
enhanced the sporting performance, that on previous days the findings in the samples
were negative, that no blood transfusion was traced on the Athlete’s biological
passport and that he underwent dozens of analyses during the season, all of them
with negative findings.
f) All this led the CNCDD of the RFEC to the conclusion that, with a great probability,
the positive test was a consequence of eating contaminated food, and this fact cannot
be considered as a negligent behaviour, due to the facts already explained. Another plausible scenario is that the adverse analytical finding results from a
contamination through a food supplement. Clenbuterol is precisely one of the
substances which can be found in food supplements. Mr Contador admitted that he
used the food supplements of the team. WADA considers that it is not verifiable
whether Mr Contador took other food supplements or that his team’s food
supplements were not proven to be not contaminated. WADA therefore submits that
it is more likely to test positive as the consequence of use of a food supplement
rather than as a consequence of the consumption of ingestion of contaminated meat
in Europe.WADA concludes by stating that Mr Contador did not establish, on a balance of
probability, how the prohibited substance entered his system. Therefore, a two-year
period of ineligibility shall apply to Mr Contador, with all the consequences attached
to such sanction.
In order to corroborate his assertion that he did not undergo a blood transfusion of any kind
at the relevant time, the Athlete voluntarily underwent a polygraph examination on 3 May
2011. In doing so, Mr Contador was asked and answered two series of question as follows:
- “Did you undergo a transfusion on July 20 or July 21, 2010? (No)
- On July 20 or July 21, 2010 did you receive a transfusion? (No)
- Did you submit to a transfusion on July 20 or July 21, 2010? (No)”
- “Did you knowingly ingest clenbuterol on July 20 or July 21, 2010? (No)
- Between July 20 and July 21, 2010 did you deliberately ingest clenbuterol? (No)
- Were you aware that clenbuterol was entering your body, in any way, on July 20 or
July 21, 2010? (No)”
386. Dr Louis Rovner concluded in his expert report, and confirmed during the hearing, that “it
is my professional opinion that Alberto Contador was telling the truth when he answered
the relevant questions above, and, as such, that he did not undergo a transfusion of blood,
plasma, or any other substance on either July 20, 2010 or July 21, 2010”.
387. The polygraph results and video of the polygraph were sent for independent review to Dr
Palmatier, polygraph credibility consultant, who concluded in his expert report, and
confirmed during the hearing by videoconference, that: “After a complete review of all of
the materials supplied, and both a semi-objective and objective assessment of the recorded
physiological data, I concur with Dr Rovner’s findings that Alberto Contador was truthful
when he responded to the relevant questions asked in each of his […] examinations”
Report GoBallistic July 17, 2013 8:05 PM BST
This was without doubt the most lenient ban ever on a cyclist who gave a positive result. Out of competition for 6 months ffs
Report lurka July 18, 2013 10:12 AM BST
LV WTF are you on about? I'm not talking about Clen and I'd agree with you there.

I am talking about 8 times the minimum of plasticisers found which was completely ignored and not dealt with, altho I accept that the test hadn't been validated for use.

But what about his chase up peyresoude in 2007 (sorry i thought this was verbier earlier) with chicken and his ascent of verbier in 2009. They are not normal.

So what part of my post is science fiction? I am not making any of it up, so don't say I have been.

Why can't he reproduce these superhuman performances anymore if he wasn't doping?
Report lurka July 18, 2013 10:17 AM BST
And what about fuentes list of Liberty Seguros riders initials with dosages which, despite all the initials on the list corresponding exactly to riders on the team, the Spanish courts 'cleansed' by ruling that the 'AC' on the list didn't stand for 'Alberto Contador' Crazy

You believe he's been clean all his career? Please give me a LOL by saying yes.
Report lurka July 18, 2013 10:42 AM BST
here's the list for you
Report bb66 July 18, 2013 4:27 PM BST
AC getting stronger day by day, yeahLaugh
Report cnman July 18, 2013 7:21 PM BST
ClayDavis embarrassing himself HTEHB
Report ClayDavis July 18, 2013 7:54 PM BST
I think u will find Bertie is still sitting in second place. Barnie Riis should be sacked!!!
Report cnman July 18, 2013 9:31 PM BST
sorry you're right I misread the title of this thread. I know notice it says ***CONTADOR TO COME SECOND IN THE TOUR DE FRANCE 2013***
Report SwingingPick July 18, 2013 9:35 PM BST
Report ClayDavis July 19, 2013 8:35 AM BST
All joking aside, how bad were Riis' tactics yesterday? Sent Roche and Paulinho up the road and they ended up in no man's land. And then had Bertie and Kruzeger attacked off the Sarenne when Froome still had other Sky riders around him? Madness!!
I genuinely thought Saxo would throw everything at Sky on Alpe d@huez first time around to get Froome isolated and maybe Quintana too. And then have a dash off the top of the Sarenne and see how Froome handled the descent.
Also Bertie lost time yesterday but if he had just ridden normally he would have probably finished with Froome and Porte
Report CJ70 July 19, 2013 9:29 AM BST
Saxo looked like they were working for the stage win for Mick Laugh
Report ClayDavis July 19, 2013 4:13 PM BST
Can someone explain Saxo's tactics? I'm just flabbergasted
Report SwingingPick July 19, 2013 4:44 PM BST
Today a day in defence for Saxo, rode it pretty well actually, preventing Movistar's Quintana from gaining time on Bertie with a late strong attack. Perhaps got a bit lucky with the rain, but Quintana still in the hunt. Bertie the first to cover Purito -- fair play. SP.
Report bb66 July 19, 2013 4:53 PM BST
Saxo defended lead in team classification against Radioshack having 3 men in the escape - big sign giving up all hopes for Contador
Report SwingingPick July 19, 2013 5:00 PM BST
Team classification for Saxo more important than Contador 2nd step in Paris? Confused SP.
Report CJ70 July 19, 2013 5:07 PM BST
Out of the podium candidates Saxo have the weakest contenders. Suicidal to all out attack today and have Bertie and Roman lose more time.

They have to do something early tomorrow or they'll drop time to Quintana and J-Rod on the final climb.
Report geoff m July 20, 2013 4:22 PM BST
clay clearly suffered from a bet placed constantly clouding rational judgement
Report ClayDavis July 20, 2013 4:26 PM BST
Throw the slack in my direction, I deserve it.
I thought Bertie would bounce back in these three weeks. I thought his class and battling qualities would see him through. But his form, as had been shown for quite a while now, had disappeared.
Whatever you see about Bertie he doesn't lack in guts and effort. He is a warrior. Who else could be in such brutal form and come so close to a podium position.
I'm pleased he has pulled out of the Vuelta. Let's hope he finds his fomr as next year's Tour could be special
Report bb66 July 20, 2013 4:27 PM BST
a well deserved podiumHappy
Report SwingingPick July 20, 2013 6:00 PM BST
Never mind Clay, I suspect Bertie did really well by you in the past, for you to have had such loyal faith in him? It's certainly a tough thing to seperate oneself from being a fan, and a punter trying to make a few quid on a sport you are clearly passionate about. I agree with you that Bertie fought hard and didn't disgrace his fine and proud career as a multiple Grand Tour champion, but I would suggest that we have seen his best in past years.

Report bb66 July 20, 2013 7:03 PM BST
I suspect Clay is more a Froome hater than a fan of ACSad
Report SwingingPick July 20, 2013 7:12 PM BST
Is that true, Clay? Confused SP.
Report ClayDavis July 20, 2013 7:39 PM BST
true and false. I'm not Froome's - or Sky for that matter - biggest fan. But i do adore Bertie - still the best I have ever seen. Bertie dancing on his pedals Love
Report CJ70 July 21, 2013 3:58 AM BST
I can't actually believe Bertie isn't doing the Vuelta.

Either there is something wrong with him or he's got a warning that he's likely to be pinged. As the Spanish are lax to say the least when it comes to doping you have to think its the former. A juiced Bertie should be near head to head with Nibali. Vuelta will be poorer for it.
Report kincsem August 2, 2013 11:56 AM BST
Year    Km/h    Winner
2013    39.2    Froome
2012    39.2    Wiggins
2011    38.9    Evans
2010    38.8    Contador [D]
2009    39.4    Contador
2008    39.6    Sastre
2007    38.2    Contador
2006    40.1    Landis [D]
2005    41.2    Armstrong [D]
2004    39.8    Armstrong [D]
2003    39.8    Armstrong [D]
2002    39.2    Armstrong [D]
2001    39.6    Armstrong [D]
2000    38.9    Armstrong [D]
1999    39.7    Armstrong [D]
1998    39.4    Pantani
1997    38.3    Ullrich
1996    38.5    Riis
1995    39.2    Indurain
1994    37.6    Indurain
1993    38.0    Indurain
1992    38.7    Indurain
1991    37.8    Indurain
1990    36.8    Lemond
1989    36.8    Lemond
1988    38.0    Delgado
1987    36.2    Roche
1986    36.2    Lemond
1985    35.4    Hinault
1984    35.2    Fignon
1983    35.3    Fignon
1982    36.6    Hinault
1981    37.0    Hinault
1980    34.9    Zoetmelck
Report bb66 February 23, 2014 9:28 AM GMT
1st win for Contador after 392 days

2013-01-26 Tour de San Luis
2014-02-22 Tour of Algarve stage 4

both really important racesLaugh
Report SwingingPick March 12, 2014 3:14 PM GMT
A race with a lot more importance is the Tirreno-Adriatico and Contador is equal 3rd favourite with Porte. Finished 3rd here last year so that price reflects the final podium place in a way.

Porte is in Italy after Froome pulled out due to a back injury. Porte just missed out on the podium in the Tour Down Under after finding the third step in the National Champs Road Race. More recently was improving his form in Andalusia behind a rampant Valverde, so his 2nd place finish overall holds up quite well against what Valverde has been up to in the Italian Classics.

I would have thought that's worth a lot more than being on equal terms with Contador for the podium.Confused

Porte to beat Bertie in Italy, in short.Laugh
Report SwingingPick March 15, 2014 6:16 PM GMT
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