What a vile outfit .......

Big Ben an average QB and Steelers an anti-football team, don`t make me laugh!

And you backed them!

FFS what would your comments have been like if you had backed Denver?

Truly outstanding 2nd half performance by the Steelers and their offence in particular. Big Ben, Wallace and Mildenhall spectacular. The score doesn`t do their supriority justice.

arrested development seething

Big Ben average...major lol...would be interested to see his list of better QB's.

Not seething in the slightest, though thanks for your concern. As requested imvho here is the list:

Brady, Peyton, Brett, Brees, Turner, McNabb, Kurt, Rodgers, Palmer, Rivers, Flacco, Hasselbeck, Eli, Cutler, Romo. That's about half the league who are more talented QB's.

The big lad looked half decent last night against a Denver D that had a total meltdown in the second half. Its still worth noting that he lost the ball giving denver the lead and threw it away in the red zone allowing Denver a chance they never should have had to get back in the game. As ever though the D (which scored and created most of their points again) got him out of jail. Average is what he is so it is appropriate that I make him about 16th at best of the current starters in the NFL.

How long you been following the NFL?

I`m not being funny but you are just making a fool of yourself now.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

Check it.

Ben Roethlisberger is for real, baby.

Turner? Which QB is that
You clearly don't have any idea, Ben is having his best season, on pace for over 4000yds and over 25 TDS - that is elite and more than most of the QBs you have listed will achieve in any year of their career

M.Turner is a RB lol. But I agree Big Ben isnt a great QB, dont get me wrong he is good but not great

Oh dear...im not even going to debate this one. What a chopper.

Actually, no, i cant hep myself...did this poster really sugest that McNabb (career is pretty much over - so were able to digest his career) is a better QB than the two time champ BB (career far from over).

Wow...just wow...someone punch this guy.

Thought if I threw a names out there it might prompt some debate!
ace, your lack of class is there for all to see, advocating violence cos you lack the wit to actually engage in the debate. Incidentally your logic that he's a great QB because he won two superbowls is specious in the extreme, Trent Dilfer won more than Dan Marino, Warren Moon and many other greats after all. I do think McNabb is a better player than him yes, good but not great, like BB in ways but more talented.

I have slight issue with forgetting the sophmore kid - Matt Ryans' name, sorry bout that.

orioles - I believe someone once said - 'there are lies, damned lies and then ...... ' I forget the rest, but thanks for your input although I just cant have him as anything more than a decent but not great player myself. He basically did his best to lose the 2005 superbowl for most of the game, yet ended up winning which he seems to do a lot in fairness, maybe that's what makes him great.

Thoughtful responses, not the ' I'm right and you're an idiot' type retorts are welcome.

Thought if I threw a names out there it might prompt some debate!
ace, your lack of class is there for all to see, advocating violence cos you lack the wit to actually engage in the debate. Incidentally your logic that he's a great QB because he won two superbowls is specious in the extreme, Trent Dilfer won more than Dan Marino, Warren Moon and many other greats after all. I do think McNabb is a better player than him yes, good but not great, like BB in ways but more talented.

I have slight issue with forgetting the sophmore kid - Matt Ryans' name, sorry bout that.

orioles - I believe someone once said - 'there are lies, damned lies and then ...... ' I forget the rest, but thanks for your input although I just cant have him as anything more than a decent but not great player myself. He basically did his best to lose the 2005 superbowl for most of the game, yet ended up winning which he seems to do a lot in fairness, maybe that's what makes him great.

Thoughtful responses, not the ' I'm right and you're an idiot' type retorts are welcome.

I agree that having a ring doesn't mean your a better QB than ones without. I just don't think you can look at Big Bens numbers this year and have half of that lot ahead of him.
In his first season he took the team to the AFC championship game and in his second season he won the superbowl, true he has bad games in that spell, but he was still learning. I think we all agree it takes at least 2 seasons for a young QB to handle the NFL properly.
Without any doubt in my mind, the best QB is peyton - and his first season the team finished 3-13 (although he did personally set a number of impressive rookie qb records)

He has 2 rings, that has to demand some respect. A team cannot make it to the superbowl and win, just on the back of defence twice. His number this season - projected 4500yds and 28TDs but him in an elite class. Surely you can't argue that?

turner ..lol

arrested,

you hang in there mate. laughing at you cos you called ryan turner even after you acknowledged the mistake is a bit cheap.
now on the subject of who the best qb's are -

its the most subjective call in football - receivers can make or break a qb. the ol is two or three or five times as important to a qb as his receivers so go figure how you rate qb's.

rice/taylor, montana/young, the 89-91 49er OL. who gets the credit? hell i'll even throw in the offensive co-ordinator

for me the most you can say about any qb is how well they marshall their teams offence (including the running game) by working with the coach's about what is achievable, by adapting their passing play to the time their OL gives them and the routes their receiving corps are adept at running.

how subjective is that???????

if arrested has rothlisberger as 16th thats fine by me. a little low in my opinion but thats his opinion.

what i would say is that rothlisberger wins games. he may win them ugly but he wins them. for the stat boys thats an underrated consideration. for me its like a hitters average with runners in scoring position. you can say that its incidental or you can say its a measure of clutchiness.

could we agree that rohlisberger sometimes looks ugly but he is pretty clutch?

on the other hand i can't agree with any of the comments italicised below....

oaf/flounder/drunken are disrespectful to a professional athlete.
anti-football????? what does that mean? what do they deserve to happen to them?
you can't fall into a big TD pass. you always have to throw the thing.
if his team is good enough with him as qb he will win another one. if its isn't he won't. end of. not sure its about justice. although i will admit to thinking the opposite about john elway for a while (ie this guy deserves one when the afc kept getting bashed in superbowls but i was wrong - he didn't deserve one he had to win one and he did)



the big oaf usually manages to flounder around like a drunken beached whale for just long enough to complete one big hail mary

but they are just a horrible, anti-football team and I look forward to them getting what they deserve one of these days

I'm sure BB will fall into a big TD pass

if there is justice in the world he will never win another ring.

Thanks Floz, some interesting points well made there, paticularly about the subjectiveness of rating QB's. I'm not a stats buff, I just watch the game, I've been following it avidly for the last 4 seasons or so, and I form my opinions mainly on what I see live.

To contextualize, those comments you took issue with were meant to be facetious not malicious so dont take them too serious like ! I had just watched a half of football where the Steelers offence did nothing at all, I'm not sure they even made it into Denver territory once and yet they managed to go in leading 7-3, as they do ! As a fan of more attacking Saints or Cards type football I find it frustrating to watch Pittsburgh at times and felt like a bit of a rant on the subject.

Those peripheral elements are all relevant, Floz, but executing, even in favourable situations, is still difficult. Your point about being 'clutch' is even more important; the ability to perform when you absolutely need to, is a quality that only truly top rank pro sportsmen and women have. Even with quality receivers and an O line that protects you, you might have three seconds to look, check down and find the player, much less throw to them, and that may be after having changed the call that came in from the coaches in a space of about 10 - 15 seconds!

-------------------------------

This is the sort of thing a QB needs to do ...

Calling his own plays from a no-huddle offense late in the first half, Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger dissected the soft part of the Vikings' Tampa 2 defense with two completions for 62 yards and a touchdown during an 18-second span.

"It was all Ben," said rookie receiver Mike Wallace, a third-round pick from Mississippi. "He was calling all the shots."

After Vikings defenders Tyrell Johnson and E.J. Henderson dropped two errant throws earlier in the drive, Roethlisberger called the same deep-middle pass to Wallace twice in three snaps. He had avoided the deep middle before that because the linebackers were dropping so deep in the Tampa 2 scheme.

"They were getting really deep," Roethlisberger said. "We were trying to *****and dunk them, but a couple of their linemen batted down a bunch of balls. So right before the half, we decided we wanted to take a chance and get Mike behind the linebackers. Hines (Ward) did a good job of attracting the linebacker (Henderson). I got it over his head, and Mike did the rest."

Wallace and Ward lined up to the right in the slot. On both passes to Wallace, Roethlisberger threw the ball perfectly over the linebackers and in front of the safeties. The first went for 22 yards to the Vikings' 40-yard line. After spiking the ball, Roethlisberger came back to the same play for a 40-yard touchdown.

c&p

----------------------------------------

Only quality QBs do that.

Football lends itself to statistical analysis because it is comprised of elements which, in their turn, are objectively measurable. That makes it possible to draw at least basic conclusions about ability. HOF arguments abound of course, but if Roethlisberger continues as he is, he'll make it and that doesn't happen just because you have a couple of decent wideouts and a shrewd coach. If anything, wouldn't that play against BR in Pittsburgh?

imo ;)

The only logical conclusion is that you were terrified of losing your bet on the Steelers as they approached half time and, like most punters, started hurling abuse at Pittsburgh and Big Ben in sheer frustration.

In the second half, like mightymac states, they were brilliant, but you still can`t praise them and you put the Steeler`s offensive "blitzkrieg" down to bad defending by Denver. What a load of Poppycock!!!!!!!!

One thing that I`ve learned in life is that when someone forms an opinion of you, it`s a waste of time and effort trying to convince them otherwise.

arresteddevelopment clearly doesn`t like Rothlisberger and I`m certainly not going to waste any time trying to convince him otherwise.

If he says Ben is the 16th best QB in the NFL then it must be so. :(

captain- only had a wee cash punt for an interest as I thought ok corrals -2.5 @ 10-11 looked a fair price, so I was hardly terrified at losing ! They played well in the second half but Ben still turned it over twice costing them 10 or 14 points in the process, I still think he gets away with a lot of errors because of the quality of the defence. He is admittedly very good at times but also ridiculously inconsistent and streaky and just cant be classed as even close to 'elite' as they like to say.

Better QB's like Brees and Warner dont have the luxury of going a whole half without completing any passes cos they will be double digits down if they dont produce consistent offense. Ben on the other hand can be all over the place and still end up winning games, check his stats from Superbowl XL if you want a prime example. Steelers can win games like that by 11 points despite being dominated in most every aspect of the game, (yes I am a little bitter about that game ! paticularly the umpiring) and I think its more in spite of Roethlisberger than because of him.

^easymoney is my forum alter ego btw!

He was the youngest QB in SB history in SB XL (iirc), playing in a run heavy offense. Beating him with that stick is unfair imo.

I'm not trumpeting Roethlisberger as a 'great', but he's moving in the right direction for HOF (with a long way to go, true) and, if you're talking about betting on a football game, Roethlisberger under centre has to be a positive factor for the team he's on in this form.

I would tend to agree with my learned friend Orioles.

No one is trying to say that he is a Joe Montana, John Elway or Dan Marino but he is well above average and apart from Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner and Tom Brady, I can`t think of a current player that I`d rather have at QB in my team.

Never in the history of the game have I ever seen a QB that is more difficult to tackle and bring to ground than Big Ben. Time after time it looks like they have him and he just brushes them aside and makes a short pass to Ward et al. A stone wall Hall Of Famer, I`m sorry to say Mr arresteddevelopment. :)

arresteddevelopment - Surely mate your alter ego (easymoney) should be a big Rothlisberger fan, lol, or whats the point?

You know, good cop, bad cop, thing ;(

;)

Unless you are a brother barrister, Captain, you MUST address me as 'Sir' :)

I do beg your pardon Sir Orioles, please forgive an old fool :p

;)

Last night showed what two poor QB's look like. How anyone can slate Big Ben is beyond me, I think the three receivers he's got this season will really help Roelisberger establish himself as top 5 material.

How much is AD going to have on the Bengals tonight :) The Steelers are up against an accurate QB and won't be getting the usual cheap free points and field position from defensive plays. Looks 50/50 to me but if AD thinks this vile outfit with their numpty QB are so bad, this should be a massive bet.

I'm no fan of the Steelers, but this thread is hilarious.

thought this was a thread about the jets

Easy mistake to make casemoney, there are a number of vile outfits around to be fair. Had a tiny tickle at match odds of 11-4 Howie the Rookie, which looks fair value but I suspect the Steelers will grind it out in the end, it is what they do after all.

Nice to see the Cincy pass rushers finishing the hits on BR so far, not getting away with trying to waddle around through weak tackles for 8 + seconds until the wideout eventually gets open as is so often the case. Troy a massive loss obviously.

Polamolu loss is massive against such an accurate QB, I think the Steelers are being overbet here

Palmer's been off a bit today, missed Caldwell and Ocho over the middle, and didn't spot Caldwell wide open stood in the EZ.

Okay if Benjamin drives the 66 yards here to win the game I may have to move him up my list past Cutler and Rodgers to 14th, lol !

ttt. a taste of their own medicine tonight.

A bitter bitter man you are.

LOL Ace, just read your Maroney thread.....

I deal in the currencey of facts sparkygayle. Maroney is a chump who is dragging down a great team. Two time champ Ben is a QB elevating a already solid team.

I think even the original poster has accepted how much of a mug he was now.