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21 Mar 18 21:33
Date Joined: 24 Feb 09
| Topic/replies: 432 | Blogger: CALLING CARD's blog
Auction nest Wednesday at  Naas Racecourse
A few nuggets among them
Jimeen et al
MAYBE we can put up some valuations and see how accurately we can predict the market
i predict a total sale of 450K
Pause Switch to Standard View david powers pitches
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Report foxy March 21, 2018 8:37 PM GMT
What about Cheltenham and york ?
Report CALLING CARD March 21, 2018 8:38 PM GMT
Presume they will sell in the UK
Report foxy March 21, 2018 8:54 PM GMT
I would have thought the Cheltenham one would interest many Irish books .
Report jimeen March 22, 2018 8:21 AM GMT
My prediction and I’m no judge of this kind of stuff, is that leopardstown will make more than all the rest of them put together. If there is such a thing as a valuable pitch in Ireland, this is the one.
My guesses would be
Leopardstown  400
Curragh          100
Galway  75
Listowel 25
Navan  0-5
Naas 15
Gowran 5-10
Roscommon 0-5
Fairyhouse 0-5
Tramore 0
Punchestown 35-40
Ballinrobe and Clonmel not worth a jellytot
Report foxy March 22, 2018 8:56 AM GMT

i have no idea about the value of pitches over there but from what i have seen with the exception of leopardstown biz is very poor {not been to galway } the amounts you put next to each track i dont understand for example leopardstown 400 and gowran 5-10 what are they please ?
Report jimeen March 22, 2018 9:16 AM GMT
The amounts are my guesses as to what they might fetch at this auction, in other words I am guessing that leopardstown makes 400 grand and gowran makes something between 5 and 10 grand.
Report foxy March 22, 2018 9:34 AM GMT
thanks jimeen its what i thought you meant but was not sure.

whilst i thought leopardstown seemed pretty good thats seems a lot,
Report jimeen March 22, 2018 10:18 AM GMT
It’s a flagship pitch foxy , it may not be for sale ever again. It’s a bit like a painting, there are people who will give millions for them , and have them handing up on the wall at home. The real value they get out of them is the ability to tell their friends who painted it and how much it cost .
The same will apply here, whoever buys it will want to be sticking their chest out and telling anyone who will listen that they own number 1 in leopardstown
Report foxy March 22, 2018 10:29 AM GMT
understood jimeen Laugh400 would get them an awful lot at places like royal ascot,cartmel and york.
Report CALLING CARD March 22, 2018 7:42 PM GMT
thanks for posting an honest view
i agree Leopardstown is a trophy pitch and might even attract UK buyers ,
The Curragh is a tricky one as there is no guarantee that the ring will go back in as it was , he had number 1 but if there is a redraw there are 15 with same seniority , i therefore valued it a bit less
Navan been a NUMBER 1 Corner pitch i reckon could make 20 and Naas roughly the same
Ptown is another hard one to value and might attract an English player but outside the festival is dead
Brobe Clonmel and Tramore are not worth a lucky bag indeed
be interesting surely
i think the lesser pitches will make more than they are worth
Report foxy March 22, 2018 7:52 PM GMT
Is there a site where you can view ring lists ?
Report CALLING CARD March 22, 2018 7:55 PM GMT
under corporate
Report foxy March 22, 2018 8:17 PM GMT
Thank you
Report foxy March 22, 2018 8:29 PM GMT
Blimey it’s much more complicated than in the uk.
Report neill d March 23, 2018 12:12 AM GMT
Doesn't sound like the worst investment in the world to me at 400k, its the best track in Ireland by a mile and has all of the serious races. Massive cachet as well as mentioned. Anybody would be proud to have it.   

I remember reading about JP's property fella Brooks. I'm sure the guy has a very diversified portfolio or whatever (no expert here), but I'm nearly sure I read the only serious property investments he made were in London, Paris and New York, on the best streets and avenues. Would it follow the if you'd the borrowing power or buying power to have pitches at Leopardstown, Ascot, Newmarket, York and Cheltenham, you can't help but make money over time unless you behave stupidly?

here's a curveball, Is there a scenario foreseeable where the government sub is pulled, RUK drive ATR off the scene and HRI get done up on the next TV deal making a load of the smaller tracks nonviable ultimately forcing closures. Its only TV money keeping them going really.

Could we have a Hong Kong like scenario where we only have the big tracks like the Curragh and Leopardstown as well as your Galways and Killarney for the piss up crowd? Could this happen? Would it be better? Have 4 or 5 good tracks with proper facilities that racing could draw in the transient casual sports fan and the corporate crowd to a greater extent.

I have to say, I much prefer the look and production values of good UK racing. Everything we do looks 2 bob even though we've the best horses, trainers, jockeys and staff. 60,000 at Cheltenham on Gold Cup Friday, it looked important; the facilities and TV production were in line with the importance of the event. The Curragh looks like a field, as does Punchestown. It makes what is happening on the track look 2 bob. That's a problem.
Report workrider March 23, 2018 8:51 AM GMT
Neill, The window in one of the stands has been broke for the last 3yrs and nothing done about it either at Punchestown, the little press box were I stand still has my tea cups from last years festival still proudly on display...
Report foxy March 23, 2018 9:56 AM GMT
be careful what you wish for.
Report RoyalAcademy March 23, 2018 11:46 AM GMT
interesting points neill.

There is simply no joined up thinking about the game in general here. Compare the cost of the Curragh redevelopment yet it looks as if a bookies pitch there is of questionable value. Are we simply building a more comfortable club for the luvvies?

The AIR is an entirely independent body and within that they have members who do not grant access to their finances. I wonder why? The last in-house report on the state of the racecourses told us "we're doing very well thank you" and it is still run by a dinosaur of the old Racing Board and how many centuries ago was that in situ? The deal with RUK is reportedly worth €40m annually and yet you get pictures from racecourses that are completely sub-standard. Unless something unforeseen happens, its hard to see that munificence continuing for much longer with the risk of "irrelevance" attaching to Irish Racing now that its sleeping with a channel branded "RacingUK".

One of the more remarkable utterances in recent times was Dermot Cantillon's plea for a Group One to be awarded to Naas as a progressive and metropolitan track and he felt the need to air this view in public as obviously nothing was possible behind the scenes. This is a guy who has held all the right positions in Irish Racing (HRI. Tote, ITBA etc.), has married into bloodstock royalty (and Turf Club lineage) yet the show is so sclerotic that nothing can be achieved by the progressives. (Last year's ICW tells you all you need to know on that front.)

To address your points: the industry will always be funded by the exchequer-its inevitable with so many rural jobs at stake, is how the spin would go. But have we far too many racecourses and too much racing? If it is a sport run for the enthusiast we clearly do. If it is an industry that keeps trainers in business and injects cash into small economies then it can be justified in a roundabout way with Finance satisfied that betting tax largely pays for the subvention in any event.

Finally, our own version of racing oligarchs, whilst dominating plenty to their own hobby and enjoyment, manage to hoover up most of the grant and this seems acceptable to most whilst the romance is virtually entirely dead. A son of a former Taoiseach is now being projected as "the little man" - plus ca change.
Report neill d March 23, 2018 9:18 PM GMT
Super stuff Royal Academy, realistically, I would agree with all of it.  The Presenting Percy stuff even got me and that is the state we are in. It was just nice to see colours not part of one of the big ranches, and with my sporting hat on, I think Davy is a genius. I also found the way PP was campaigned interesting. It was beautiful training.

The idea of Naas getting a group 1, just sums up everything that is wrong with Irish racing in the sense of it being run for those operating within it.

Its frustrating because Irish racing is a brilliant product in a sporting sense, better than anywhere else in the world in a sporting sense. Whatever about quiet ones and hooking horses. I think one can assume a basic competence about 90% of Irish horse people, that they are operating to a basic plan and they know what they are doing. There  is a post from a poster called Domino about a potential touch in Wolverhampton, its something that I don't think would happen here, because the people involved here are more skilled and know better.

Jamie Moore getting done the other day, because he is bang average and hadn't the skill to accomplish what he was trying to do. There are probably 100 lads in Ireland that could've done that job! The stuff at the gates notwithstanding, the horse people here are brilliant.
Report neill d March 23, 2018 9:57 PM GMT
Workrider, as a guy that goes, would you think 4 or 5 premium tracks with the ability to watch the racing in comfort would outweigh the plusses of the rich variety of courses we enjoy at the moment? I could see the pluses. I'm local and wouldn't go near Limerick racecourse, soulless; Mallow, no interest, Junction, middle of nowhere. I've been to Thurles and enjoyed it for its character, but its on the way out.
Report workrider March 23, 2018 11:00 PM GMT
Sadly Neill d , I love the old style courses, I was in Limerick twice this week, Navan today,Thurles tomorrow , and Naas Sun God willing, most courses have only a handful of people most days, There will come a time when people will say enough is enough, hopefully its not anytime soon. Irish racing has always been about the small guy taken on the big fella, that's why you have so many trainers who are struggling but wont give in, its simply in their blood. I would hate to see us end up like the U.S. Months on end of the same horses running over the same distance on the same course, hardly something to get excited about, I agree with R.A. on most of his points though,self same people getting more of the pie, as I have alluded to many times before, the Curragh will be a white Elephant paid for by the taxpayer to be enjoyed by the chosen few,and finally owned by them!...
Report olddesperado March 23, 2018 11:43 PM GMT
Outside of the middle of the summer most courses can only take a meeting four or five times a year.

If there were less courses and races then it would churn up even more.
Report foxy March 24, 2018 7:59 AM GMT

not over keen on cork and limerick myself but your comments on thurles been on the way out are way out.
Report neill d March 24, 2018 9:33 AM GMT
Sorry foxy, I meant the age of the patrons who are going there, I should've clarified.
Report workrider March 24, 2018 10:04 AM GMT
Report foxy March 24, 2018 10:10 AM GMT
thanxforthat neill i was planning on been here a bit longer yet.
Report foxy March 24, 2018 10:22 AM GMT
Age is not exclusive to thurles neill if you brought your thurles regulars over to ludlow and plonked them in members the average age would drop dramatically.
Report workrider March 24, 2018 10:47 AM GMT
Laugh Foxy, but the drive from Cheltenham to Ludlow is simply stunning...
Report foxy March 24, 2018 7:26 PM GMT
i prefer the drive from galway to killarney workrider.
Report workrider March 24, 2018 8:50 PM GMT
Going to Cheltenham on the 15th April for a week , doing the 2 days there and going to Exeter on 17th and Bath on the Fri night, you around or are you working the flat that week ?
Report foxy March 25, 2018 9:25 AM BST
not working but going to the craven meeting workrider ,exeter is not a good viewing track however there are some steps by the last fence which is worth watching a couple of races from,bath is a great town well worth the visit although its quite a way from the racecourse.
Report workrider March 25, 2018 11:13 AM BST
I have been to both already Foxy, couldn't believe the poor viewing at Exeter though, no doubt we'll meet up later on in the season, I'll be making a few more trips, take care...
Report foxy March 25, 2018 12:32 PM BST
punchestown workrider enjoy your trip over here.
Report ribero1 March 28, 2018 10:09 PM BST
Any news?
Report CALLING CARD March 28, 2018 10:52 PM BST
fairyhouse 2250 b keenan
gowran 21000 dara fitz
leopardstown 240000 david mcmanus
curragh 120000 starsports
galway 100000 david mcmanus
roscommon 7000 dara fitz
listowel 36000 ron wadey
naas 43000 b graham
navan 23000 d o hare
tramore 500 dara fitz
punchestown 27000 pinnacle
clonmel and b robe no bid
Report olddesperado March 29, 2018 6:06 AM BST
Pretty good guessing jimeen.

Close enough on quiet a few.
Report ribero1 March 29, 2018 9:08 AM BST
Cheers,never been to Ireland but amazing that a guy like Power could actually have pitches which were absolutely worthless,even really poor pitches in the UK fetch a couple of hundred normally.
Fairyhouse must be surprisingly poor?
Report observerirl March 29, 2018 2:25 PM BST
The Fairyhouse ring has changed utterly last 20 years. That rails pitch looks the loneliest bleakest spot on the racecourse & totally isolated. Very surprised to see Starsports acquiring Curragh for that amount. In general UK firms have'nt lasted too long and that was in better times.
Report ribero1 March 29, 2018 3:25 PM BST
yes,someone just told me they've paid far too much for it,there's a redraw apparently?
Report foxy March 29, 2018 5:55 PM BST
One of the problems ribero is you pay for the season up front if that was the case over here nobody would pay for say 200 for 65 at Newcastle which would be fine for 3 days but when you have to pull it up for the whole season it’s not so appealing.

Can’t comment on Galway as I have not been to the festival but I am surprised at what some of the pitches have brought.
Report ribero1 March 29, 2018 7:16 PM BST
Thanks Foxy,yes just spoke to Paul about it,he said the very same thing,people turn up every day midweek over here with £100 pitches,the irish system obviously discourages that.
Report foxy March 29, 2018 7:18 PM BST
Absolutely ribero makes a huge difference to numbers, no wonder clonmel never sold .
Report foxy April 5, 2018 12:56 PM BST
Anybody with any guesses or opinions what his uk pitches will fetch

Royal ascot rails 13
York rails 7
Festival rails 15
Report tony57 April 5, 2018 1:07 PM BST
goodnews for punters that STARSPORTS are in ireland..they take a bet .
Report ribero1 April 5, 2018 2:10 PM BST
When are they for sale foxy?
Report foxy April 5, 2018 2:28 PM BST
a week on monday ribero.
Report ribero1 April 5, 2018 3:36 PM BST
Thanks Foxy,somebody said its at Canary Wharf?He's also got a decent number on the Rowley.
Report ribero1 April 5, 2018 3:42 PM BST
Re what they're worth,don't know too much about Ascot,does it get you into an area anywhere? doubt there will be much change out of 200 for York (whoever buys it will presumably use it go around the corner with the Two Percenters),Cheltenham I would guess about 120.
Report foxy April 5, 2018 3:56 PM BST
the values at cheltenham are going through the roof ribero that might bring more,royal ascot gets you a move up but i dont think its gets you in a knew area,theres another one ascot off rails 14,pick 20 is up for £24,000
Report RAMSGATE April 5, 2018 11:17 PM BST
Hello, any have a full list of pitches sold on the uk auction or know where to find the details, regards
Report foxy April 6, 2018 10:00 AM BST
good morning ramsgate

there is a site called the agt however to get on the past or current auction page you need to be registered with them.
Report roadrunner46 September 26, 2018 8:23 PM BST
why would anyone be interested in the price of pitches, beggars belief
Report foxy October 20, 2018 6:22 PM BST
Somebody spending 2.5 million might have an interest in the price of pitches
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