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I ma well be taking through my hat here but I was quite stunned yesterday when Gordon Elliot revealed he "had only started weighing horses this year". And this from a young, top, hugely successful Trainer.
It confirms a suspicion that the training of NH horses is largely in the Dark Ages when it comes to a scientific approach and eking out of marginal gains. If Elliot hasn't got, what I would assume to best practices in place, I guess we can assume the Trainers lower down the pecking order, are even more agricultural in their approach.
I assume every technical aid going is used by the top Flat trainers, from Heart Rate Monitoring to blood tests to weighing to God knows what. Now I know there is a lot more money in the Fat game, but nonetheless. It doesn't get much simpler than weighing a horse.
Am not trying to detract from their ability to judge a horse, their irreplaceable instinct and feel etc, but when so much is made of say a 7lb swing on raceday, surely such a tiny amount of weight pales into significance with the kilo's that a horse may have gained or lost in the run up. Plus the breakdown of that weight gain, in terms of muscle/fat etc.
Or is just a simple as feed them as high quality stuff (be it natural or pharmaceutical!) as you can (and what of the degree of analysis being carried out here), keep them happy and healthy and gallop da sh1te out of them, tapering off close to race day?
It confirms a suspicion that the training of NH horses is largely in the Dark Ages when it comes to a scientific approach and eking out of marginal gains. If Elliot hasn't got, what I would assume to best practices in place, I guess we can assume the Trainers lower down the pecking order, are even more agricultural in their approach.
I assume every technical aid going is used by the top Flat trainers, from Heart Rate Monitoring to blood tests to weighing to God knows what. Now I know there is a lot more money in the Fat game, but nonetheless. It doesn't get much simpler than weighing a horse.
Am not trying to detract from their ability to judge a horse, their irreplaceable instinct and feel etc, but when so much is made of say a 7lb swing on raceday, surely such a tiny amount of weight pales into significance with the kilo's that a horse may have gained or lost in the run up. Plus the breakdown of that weight gain, in terms of muscle/fat etc.
Or is just a simple as feed them as high quality stuff (be it natural or pharmaceutical!) as you can (and what of the degree of analysis being carried out here), keep them happy and healthy and gallop da sh1te out of them, tapering off close to race day?
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That is more or less what I've been saying. GE got up off his ass and did something. I dont know Colm Murphy's personal situation and I dont wish to be unfair to him but he had a champion hurdler ten years ago and a champion chaser six years ago and now he's given up the game. Obviously for most of the remainder science would not be their strongest subject.
I doubt all flat racing yards have scales Ozy, indeed few of them would be the answer, a very good and thought provoking thread I might add,I am of the same opinion as yourself,having trained greyhounds I know the importance of weight in a finely tuned animal, when getting one ready for a gamble having it spot on to the pound was essential . Guy Harwood was the first to weigh them I believe, not sure if Vincent did,anyway back to NH racing,Gordon has moved into new premises recently and I'm sure a weighing scales was one of the first things to arrive.A smashing point you raised re 5lb 3lb allowence,how many trainers know their animal proper racing weight I wonder.
The fact that the most successful trainer ( Vincent) weighed his horses shows the worth of the practice . Amazed than Gordon Elliott only started it this year . Has had a good year too .
Tony,
THAT Theatre Territory runs at Uttoxeter at 12.30 2moro
THAT Theatre Territory runs at Uttoxeter at 12.30 2moro
Think I remember reading that it was Henry Cecil that famously didn't weigh horses.
I wonder is it anything to do with the fact that older geldings are liable to put on weight anyway as they grow older and stronger. You'd hear trainers saying it about 8 and 9 year olds even, coming in bigger and stronger after the summer.
I wonder is it anything to do with the fact that older geldings are liable to put on weight anyway as they grow older and stronger. You'd hear trainers saying it about 8 and 9 year olds even, coming in bigger and stronger after the summer.
WPM doesn't weigh them as far as I know. Doesn't have a swimming pool either.No assistant trainer.No pupil assistants. Old school
Patrick and David Casey are his assistants. But hopefully Willie still makes the important decisions!
i know some trainers weigh their strings ..im surprised they all dont..as wr said very good thread with a great talking point
Any trainer who does not weigh his horses should have his/her licence withdrawn
A little over the top Arkle,but a fair point all the same, in this day and age guessing a horses right weight is akin to not having a mobile phone.
Whilst we are on the subject, I have many innovations that I would introduce, should I take up Training including;
* Your hoss, if running in the 2.30 will train at 2.30 for a couple of weeks preceding the race
* Your hoss, will be excused the parade ring early and rather than being ridden to the start, will be lead to the start in order to conserve vital energy
* Your hoss, will be clad in carbon fibre horseshoes and use carbon a fibre bit to reduce weight carried.
I have dozens of such innovations but I don't want to give everything away at this point.
* Your hoss, if running in the 2.30 will train at 2.30 for a couple of weeks preceding the race
* Your hoss, will be excused the parade ring early and rather than being ridden to the start, will be lead to the start in order to conserve vital energy
* Your hoss, will be clad in carbon fibre horseshoes and use carbon a fibre bit to reduce weight carried.
I have dozens of such innovations but I don't want to give everything away at this point.
Wonks, please don't go passing all these tips onto Gordon, I wouldn't have put them up here had I known that you two guys were close, cheers.
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