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I'm not by any means saying that Ryan Moore is not a world-class jockey, he clearly is, but its normally the prerogative of Coolmore to have the best jockey.
I don't think Moore has ridden well this season and has cost them in the biggest races.
I thought he was poor on USAR in the Derby and should've made more use of him, being beaten by on Orderofstgeorge in the leger doesn't matter so much.
However, the one that I thing really counts against him is the ride he gave The Gurkha at Royal Ascot, TG wins that race and he is champion miler now. As it stands, it looks like he won't race again and the winner of the QE2 will pick up that title unless it is a bunch finish. That's a major black mark against Moore given how long Coolmore have wanted a champion miler by Galileo.
First jockeys in Ballydoyle have gone for less.
Is there anyone better than Moore riding in the UK or Ireland at the minute, I don't think so but I could see Oisin Murphy or Colin Keane riding first in Rosegreen in the relatively near future. Murphy is a phenomenal communicator for a flat jockey and could take some of the weight off AOB in that regard the way Murtagh did.
Moore has forged a reputation as a world-class jock and rightly so, his elevation seems to have come after his exploits in America, Japan and Australia in particular. I think these are a little overblown as the strong pace and fast ground a jockey typically gets in Japan means races work out neater often. In Australia and America he has been on to my mind superior horses.
These races often bare no resemblance in nature to the tactical group 1 races we have in Europe and I think he has been found wanting on a few occasions this season. A motivated Dettori is better and more versatile than Moore for me. I think he is a top-class rider (very good) in a job that should be an elite level talent (Murtagh, Kinnane or prime Fallon.)
I can only conclude that there is no elite level. talent available.
I don't think Moore has ridden well this season and has cost them in the biggest races.
I thought he was poor on USAR in the Derby and should've made more use of him, being beaten by on Orderofstgeorge in the leger doesn't matter so much.
However, the one that I thing really counts against him is the ride he gave The Gurkha at Royal Ascot, TG wins that race and he is champion miler now. As it stands, it looks like he won't race again and the winner of the QE2 will pick up that title unless it is a bunch finish. That's a major black mark against Moore given how long Coolmore have wanted a champion miler by Galileo.
First jockeys in Ballydoyle have gone for less.
Is there anyone better than Moore riding in the UK or Ireland at the minute, I don't think so but I could see Oisin Murphy or Colin Keane riding first in Rosegreen in the relatively near future. Murphy is a phenomenal communicator for a flat jockey and could take some of the weight off AOB in that regard the way Murtagh did.
Moore has forged a reputation as a world-class jock and rightly so, his elevation seems to have come after his exploits in America, Japan and Australia in particular. I think these are a little overblown as the strong pace and fast ground a jockey typically gets in Japan means races work out neater often. In Australia and America he has been on to my mind superior horses.
These races often bare no resemblance in nature to the tactical group 1 races we have in Europe and I think he has been found wanting on a few occasions this season. A motivated Dettori is better and more versatile than Moore for me. I think he is a top-class rider (very good) in a job that should be an elite level talent (Murtagh, Kinnane or prime Fallon.)
I can only conclude that there is no elite level. talent available.
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Ryan is prone to making mistakes on the big stage ,some of his rides at R.A. for instance the ride he gave T.G as you rightly highlighted and many more at Ascot over the years ,as good as he is @ Goodwood he has made some terrible bloomers there as well . When riding here he invaribly gets one wrong at the worst possible time , hes a very good jockey make no mistake ,but great ?. Watched Keane @ Naas today , and his ability to be in the right place at the right time was appearent , today he showed tactical ability that some were unable to watch , it was obvious from the first race that the going on the inside was worse than in the middle of the track , ok the first winner came up the rails but that was only a 5 runner race . Colin noted the going and kept his winners off the rails while others stayed inside only to find their mounts labouring .He has a good head on young shoulders ,and yes the possibility that Coolmore will come acalling is a valid one...
"Is there anyone better than Moore riding in the UK or Ireland at the minute"
"A motivated Dettori is better and more versatile than Moore for me"
You have answered your own question!
"A motivated Dettori is better and more versatile than Moore for me"
You have answered your own question!
Going to contradict myself here !! Moores rides on a number of occasions this season have been poor, namely rides in epsom oaks & derby, The Gurkha & Alice Springs in Royal Ascot. Also think he was poor on st george in the gold cup, but am in a minority in that regard.
But now for the contradiction. For those major mistakes still think he's the best around / available at the moment. Can see your reasoning re Colin Keane but he's not ready for a role like Coolmore yet. Also Smullen is an obvious contender but he is loyal too DK
But now for the contradiction. For those major mistakes still think he's the best around / available at the moment. Can see your reasoning re Colin Keane but he's not ready for a role like Coolmore yet. Also Smullen is an obvious contender but he is loyal too DK
I've contradicted myself as well with the Dettori comment! Hadn't realised The Gurkha had been retired Workrider.
Saw someone on the forum mention that the standard of flat jock in the UK is particularly poor, his reasoning for this was how well comparatively female jocks and claimers are doing these days. Doyle has just gone now, and I wouldn't see much special in Hanagan either. Always felt a focussed Jamie spencer could have a later career renaissance a bit like Richard Hughes, that looks doubtful now.
There has been a huge gap in the ranks after the Murtagh, Fallon, Kinane ,Dettori era. Smullen is closer to their age and has come through, then their is Moore and nobody around his age at his level. Buick and DeSousa have certain qualities, Buick still has the job and a bit of scope for improvement so we'll see.
The good news is that the guys coming up look pretty serious, the likes of Keane and Murphy.
It's funny, the last few years, you'd watch a Champion Hurdle, go through the top jocks riding in it with chances and you'd say 80% of them just won't f*ck up. You can't say that on the flat.
Saw someone on the forum mention that the standard of flat jock in the UK is particularly poor, his reasoning for this was how well comparatively female jocks and claimers are doing these days. Doyle has just gone now, and I wouldn't see much special in Hanagan either. Always felt a focussed Jamie spencer could have a later career renaissance a bit like Richard Hughes, that looks doubtful now.
There has been a huge gap in the ranks after the Murtagh, Fallon, Kinane ,Dettori era. Smullen is closer to their age and has come through, then their is Moore and nobody around his age at his level. Buick and DeSousa have certain qualities, Buick still has the job and a bit of scope for improvement so we'll see.
The good news is that the guys coming up look pretty serious, the likes of Keane and Murphy.
It's funny, the last few years, you'd watch a Champion Hurdle, go through the top jocks riding in it with chances and you'd say 80% of them just won't f*ck up. You can't say that on the flat.
Atzeni is probably the guy with the best CV, most natural talent and least number of convictions against him! he's still very young as well and seems to be clever as he extricated himself from the crappier Qatar Racing seamlessly. Could be next Godolphin stable jock.
pat smullen would be the coolmore jockey years ago but he said no
You cannot mention Moore without referencing what a miserable sod he is post race and in an era where the sound its counts enormously he's a disaster.
If you have an obvious disdain for the press - it's said he's not bad company otherwise, which I doubt - it's inevitable he'll suffer from negative press and most people lose confidence when this happens. One could argue that's what we witnessed this year: call it the Wayne Rooney syndrome
If you have an obvious disdain for the press - it's said he's not bad company otherwise, which I doubt - it's inevitable he'll suffer from negative press and most people lose confidence when this happens. One could argue that's what we witnessed this year: call it the Wayne Rooney syndrome
Us Army Ranger is a dog- His Mother was quirky, she won 1 race under an inspired ride by Johnny Murtagh.The Ryan Moore Ballydoyle partnership is now starting to follow the same pattern as Murtagh and Kinane,
As for the O Brien kids shaking their heads in the parade ring after the US Army Ranger ride letting everybody at Leopardstown know who was to blame PMSL
As for the O Brien kids shaking their heads in the parade ring after the US Army Ranger ride letting everybody at Leopardstown know who was to blame PMSL
Heisenberg, Monach, whosaidwhat, It nice to see some posters on the Irish forum, Moore is going no where for the time being, Donnacha O'Brien is well in to his apprenticeship and his big bro Joseph has gone on record saying Donnacha is a better jockey then he was,i know that doesn,t mean he will get the top job ; but with back up like Heffo and others its Business as usual for Coolmore, in the long term Oisin Murphy would be my choice if Donnacha is not good enough.
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