Irish Sports
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With more free time now after the Euro soccer adventure is more or less over for "home fans" --outside of the support we may give to a Wales team who have survived , looking to the summer's GAA .
The standard of hurling at the top level is probably up there with the best overall most of us have seen . The skill level and the commitment I see in most matches is exceptional , bearing in mind most of the guys do full time jobs as well as play hurling . Hurling I reckon is in a good place , no worries except it would be nice if some of the non premier counties managed to mount better performances ( despite the undoubted effort put in by lots of committed parties ).
Football though is in a different place . Most of matches I have seen in last few months have been pedestrian , skill levels ( other than great hand passing ) pretty poor , wide after wide , keep ball football , packed defences , largely puke football . My own county ( Down , once regarded as doughty and skilful opponents ) are gone , not one player in current squad would have got on our good successful teams of the past , a sad sad state . Other counties with decent past records are in the same boat . Managers come and go , but you cant get blood from a stone , suspect it is the same in other counties . Root and branch surgery needed to develope players from very young , all our good teams through the years had home grown talent , developed in our once excellent nurseries ( grammar / secondary schools ).
But there is also a general malaise abroad in the overall game , more and more every match I see devolves to a basketball type match , and basketball is OK for the Yanks , but it bores the pants off me . Football used to be a game of 50-50 balls , individual battles ( 14 ) all over the field , individual skill in beating your man , and it was worth the entrance money generally . Last match I watched completely was Westmeath vs Kildare on Sunday , with a place in the Leinster final at stake . Both teams were distinctly average , it was a mistake ridden match with the now normal keep ball hand passing tactic in vogue for both teams .
Simple way to change the pattern of play is to limit the hand pass . The first team to exploit the hand pass was the Antrim team of the forties , in a time when the six northern counties were way down the pecking order in national terms . Rightfully the rules were changed a bit and football reverted to more traditional catch and kick , and we had good footballing activity all over the island ( south and then north as it should be) until the mid nineties . Then the "coaches" ( paid ) appeared in numbers and with intent , and tactics became more important than individual skill , largely because you could play a whole match without kicking the ball ( other than kickouts and frees ) and still win .
Is it beyond logic to limit the hand pass to 2 consecutive , it became the rule for a while and was successful , but got ditched for some reason , leaving us with current cr*p . Are there interested parties ?
Any game , gaelic football included , where your first criteria is to deny possession to the opposition limits creativity big time , and games where it is extremely difficult to get the ball off an opponent lends itself to stultifying keep ball play . Hand passing is probably 5 times more accurate than kicked passing , hence the tactic , but also the proposed solution ( unless everyone is happy with current scenario , not evident in attendances though ).
The hand pass was introduced to allow players in possession to "get out of trouble" , but it has become something else . Time to bring back positivity and creativity ( including tackling which has become a lost art due to the hand passing prevalence) . Please , otherwise the game will continue to go down as a spectacle .
The standard of hurling at the top level is probably up there with the best overall most of us have seen . The skill level and the commitment I see in most matches is exceptional , bearing in mind most of the guys do full time jobs as well as play hurling . Hurling I reckon is in a good place , no worries except it would be nice if some of the non premier counties managed to mount better performances ( despite the undoubted effort put in by lots of committed parties ).
Football though is in a different place . Most of matches I have seen in last few months have been pedestrian , skill levels ( other than great hand passing ) pretty poor , wide after wide , keep ball football , packed defences , largely puke football . My own county ( Down , once regarded as doughty and skilful opponents ) are gone , not one player in current squad would have got on our good successful teams of the past , a sad sad state . Other counties with decent past records are in the same boat . Managers come and go , but you cant get blood from a stone , suspect it is the same in other counties . Root and branch surgery needed to develope players from very young , all our good teams through the years had home grown talent , developed in our once excellent nurseries ( grammar / secondary schools ).
But there is also a general malaise abroad in the overall game , more and more every match I see devolves to a basketball type match , and basketball is OK for the Yanks , but it bores the pants off me . Football used to be a game of 50-50 balls , individual battles ( 14 ) all over the field , individual skill in beating your man , and it was worth the entrance money generally . Last match I watched completely was Westmeath vs Kildare on Sunday , with a place in the Leinster final at stake . Both teams were distinctly average , it was a mistake ridden match with the now normal keep ball hand passing tactic in vogue for both teams .
Simple way to change the pattern of play is to limit the hand pass . The first team to exploit the hand pass was the Antrim team of the forties , in a time when the six northern counties were way down the pecking order in national terms . Rightfully the rules were changed a bit and football reverted to more traditional catch and kick , and we had good footballing activity all over the island ( south and then north as it should be) until the mid nineties . Then the "coaches" ( paid ) appeared in numbers and with intent , and tactics became more important than individual skill , largely because you could play a whole match without kicking the ball ( other than kickouts and frees ) and still win .
Is it beyond logic to limit the hand pass to 2 consecutive , it became the rule for a while and was successful , but got ditched for some reason , leaving us with current cr*p . Are there interested parties ?
Any game , gaelic football included , where your first criteria is to deny possession to the opposition limits creativity big time , and games where it is extremely difficult to get the ball off an opponent lends itself to stultifying keep ball play . Hand passing is probably 5 times more accurate than kicked passing , hence the tactic , but also the proposed solution ( unless everyone is happy with current scenario , not evident in attendances though ).
The hand pass was introduced to allow players in possession to "get out of trouble" , but it has become something else . Time to bring back positivity and creativity ( including tackling which has become a lost art due to the hand passing prevalence) . Please , otherwise the game will continue to go down as a spectacle .
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I know a number of Intercounty footballers and Hurlers. To listen to them talk about training and tactics would leave you in no doubt that Hurling is in the dark ages and a good decade behind football. If any decent Football manager like McGuinness decided to take over one of the top 5 or 6 hurling sides he would win numerous all Irelands with them. Waterford are seen a revolutionary FFS
 with their tactics and that says it all. |
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Also their is a huge gulf in fitness between hurling and football. A top Intercounty hurler whom i saw playing football a few weeks ago, was fit to drop with tiredness after 30 mins
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The footballers are generally as fit as fleas these days , particularly if your criteria is an ability to run for a long time . I always viewed marathon runners though as people who could not run fast but could run slow for a long time . I know I would rather watch a 100 metre final than a marathon final .
In the past a lot of hurlers did not need to be as fit as their footballing counterparts , our hurlers ( Down , not the worst once upon a time) famously trained occasionally in their jeans , couldn't be bothered to change . They also were in the 3 breakfasts syndrome on the way to a match . Cant believe the current top county hurlers are not fit for purpose . The difference between hurling and football is that the ball does the travelling in hurling , skill is in getting it around quickly and scoring more than the opposition . Exciting . Can you imagine hurling devolving to a game where you just kept the ball away from your opponents ? The rules in hurling do not need any modification in my opinion . Neutral sports fans from outside our island love it , not that it gets marketed properly and it is too difficult a game for other than those born to it , so difficult to spread . |
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Gaelic Football is the biggest heap of shiite that we have to endure nowadays.
It could be a good game but the rules make it complete and utter garbage. One hand pass should be the max, only once should you be allowed move the ball backwards, and no way should you be allowed throw the ball over the bar |
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the world according to mincie
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Some good points by Kelly,.. As a Dub i love to see us win the all iRELAND Hurling final before i pass on, i was at the all ireland final in 1961 when Tipp bt the Dubs by a point[ the last time Dublin played in the Final],.. Hurling is a much better game to watch , I was at a sports quiz about 25years ago and one of the questions was who captain Dublin the last time they won the all ireland hurling final in 1938,i hadn;t a clue and when the answer came Mick Daniels a elderly stood up and gave the crowd a wave, a nice moment
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Thank God they were unable to take the muscle out of Hurling, Gaelic Football is a womans game that should have a rule opposite to rugby that the ball must be passed forward. How ugly is it to see a free being kicked 40 yards back. Hows the game to improve when you have a half wit Joe Brolly analyzing
matches on one channel and the instigator of negative football Jimmy McGuinness on the other. |
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The sort of gaelic football I grew up with , banjakst , was certainly not a womans game . In those days Sigerson football among the universities was tougher than inter county matches , for instance up to the 60's nobody had ever been sent off in a Sigerson match .
Current stuff has taken proper tackling out of the game , largely because most of the passing is sideways via hand passes . Most of the positive attacking in matches I saw over the weekend involved hand passing between two or three players running alongside each other , hard to defend against properly done , but not football as I knew it . Kickouts should have to travel a minimum of 30 yards , from the 21 to the fifty , restoring traditional mid fielding . Otherwise a hop ball on the 21 . Under age adjustment if necessary . The basic skills of gaelic football are fine . I would scrub the foot lift rule as it tends only to slow down the game and makes for easy fouling , a la most of the "sliding tackles " in soccer which are only an excuse to try and damage an opponents legs after having "touched" the ball in the attempt . |
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Kelly - I myself grew up playing senor football in Co Meath in the late 80s and 90s when football was tough. I'm proud to say ive a senor county medal and enjoyed every minute I played. The Meath team of that time would never have won anything under the rules of today. I dislike todays game as I believe the physical element of game is important. It's a great leveler. As I stated I'm delighted they didn't take it out of hurling. In a day and age where the must popular thing on telly is cage fighting (which disgusts me) I find it ironic that physicality is not permitted in the football. My opinion. The current Dublin side are fantastic footballers and must be commended. The rest are chasing shadows.
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Banjakst , you must have played with and against most of that excellent Meath squad in Sean Boylan's great run from that era . Lots of brilliant players , and tough to boot , 4 of the team I managed would have been in opposition to your lads over that period , and there is nothing like feedback from those who have been in the heat of battles .
They came back up a couple of years ago ( for a charity game) , played ( with a few "guests" the ( whole ) starting Down team from 1991 in Newry . Re run ( nearly) of the 91 final . Great night , raised a lot of money , Colm O'Rourke acted as manager that night as Sean Boylan could't make it . Great craic post match ( fittingly a draw ) , Down people were especially pleased that so many of the Meath lads made the effort to travel and tog out . Its what GAA and some other sports is all aboout . No quarter was given or asked in those days , plenty of skill factor too as well as the physicality that most of the Meath team took in their stride. Down were no shrinking violets either , our first division league football was among the best in the island then, Burren in the 80's being the leader in that respect . Times change though , for both counties , not as bad for you , but our lot are dire in my book . |
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Kelly - Some great stories of that Meath team and I know they are held in great respect by their fellow players of that era. Back then it was easier to beat the Dubs because you only had to get under their skin and rise 'em to throw them off their game. The Dubs thought everyone else as culshees back then. But with so many of them living outside Dublin they can't think like that anymore.
I remember a famous incident when an excited Dublin sub did his warm up entered the game brushed up against as Meath players as he could and said "Jeysus there's a horid smell of cowsh11t lads" A minute later the play was down the other side of the field and the legendary Mick Lyons stood over this Dublin sub who was lying on the ground and said "Hey ****Y you won't smell anything know" (broken nose). The teams of that era Meath Dublin Cork and indeed your own Down often meet up at Golf Classic's or other events and remember fondly those titanic battles when football was football. The teams of today won't meet up in the future have have the same respect for each other. |
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The teams of today will be meeting up saying " do you remember the day in Croke Park where I hand passed the ball 846 times and threw two balls over the bar and fukked one in the net with the palm of my hand as well ".
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I have yet to meet anyone who likes the way football is played at the moment . On the basis of that , why don't those in charge try to change things for the better ? If you keep your head in the sand , eventually you die .
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Soccer has the offside rule ( an artificial rule introduced way back) which is one of the few ways the ball changes hands possession wise . Rugby league has the rule of 6 , then you have to "play the ball" with a good chance the opposition will get it . Rugby union has become mired in recycling , I hear commentators glorying in 28 recycles to make 5 yards of ground , Eton wall game eat your heart out , game needs to revert to evasion rather than collision. Aussie rules have a caught in possession rule . Time to think back outside the box in gaelic football .
The game that has reinvented itself is cricket . The traditionalists bemoaned the move away from Test cricket , even though the evidence was that spectators had neither the time , inclination , or money to sit for 5 days watching ( often) the equivalent of paint drying . Some great matches still , but compared to the excitement now generated in one day matches and T20 matches the tests are dull , and the public has voted for the change big time . Not suggesting gaelic football changes the format , just the way teams play ( or are encouraged to play )to make the game entertaining again . None of the people at the helm in GAA are stupid , but surely they must listen to the feedback from the terraces . |
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Some good stuff here, but the debate has been simmering for years and and anti hand pass brigade, myself included have clearly lost.
I walked out of Croke park a number of years ago at half time, Dublin V Donegal.. I havent gone back for a football match and don't go to any football games at any level.. I am an avid hurling fan, i coach a good bit, i love the game, however, to say all is well is not the case imho and many others. How many counties compete at the top.The game has not spread or expanded as it deserves.I could raise many issues and provide some answers and logic or otherwise. It is the loss of physicality in the game, the amount of short passing(with the hurl) and the absolute death of the clash and ground hurling and wristy hurlers that concerns me.. Yes fitness and speed has improved and the game is still a spectacle but we are quickly losing some beautiful skills and facets of the game and it will not be for the long term good of the game but to its detriment. Can we please start with 2x2 side by side in the middle of pitch for the throw in.. What is this scrummaging we continually see. It is not hurling and it sets a bad tone for the game all over the pitch.. Referees need to get a grip... I want to see men standing shoulder to shoulder, pulling on the ball, and i want to see a lad whip a moving ball along the turf a distance and at a rate of knots.. Davy Fitz i am no supporter of what you produce.. Can we have our game back instead of this diluted tippy tappy shi te.... |
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Peckerdunne , unfortunately I cant see hurling expanding much , its too difficult a game to teach most. unless they start when just out of the cradle . Plus sustaining hurling and football interest in duality mode is beyond most county boards ken . Still a great game for the counties who prosper and there are a huge number of armchair supporters out there .
Cork vs Dublin last night was a cracking match , plenty of open play and scores ( lots of them long range points which always rise the faithful ). |
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The Cork v Dublin game was awful.Full of errors. Cork hurling is in serious trouble and Dublin have been slipping back for a while.
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they will have to get rid of the back door/qualifiers before things improve.the quality and intensity is gone until the quarter finals in hurling and football is gone too serious and handpass orientated. people are copping on to this and crowds have dropped. what benefit was it to laois and offaly hurling last evening ? none .instead the club hurling was held up in both countys while they were still "in" the championship..
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Crowds have not dropped.
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You can all have your own views on the state of Cork or Dublin hurling , but fact remains , last nights game was value for money , nobody left the ground wishing they hadn't paid in .
That both sides scored freely without many wides indicates to me a fair degree of skill , a heck of a lot better than watching soccer players failing to score nightly . As far as I know ( without researching it ) , the crowds at hurling have stayed steady , football dropping off for good reason ( boring play ) . |
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gant 19k at a munster semi final clare and waterford?if it was winner take all they would have been 35k at it.today in croker?20k max?fact is if kk lose they will still be fav for all ireland..and will galway have a wild celebration for beating them?i think not."championship" is diluted til august .an unintended consequence of the advocates of the backdoor system.when introduced in 1998 it was intended to help the weak.its had the opposite effect..
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A national sport or national pastime is a sport or game that is considered to be an intrinsic part of the culture of a nation and should never be decided on a Knockout basis, the backdoor system gave a chance to players who were in week counties a 2nd chance to play in our national sport,
The old joke what the difference between Sligo and Neil diamond ? Neil Diamond played in CROKE Park more times then Sligo. |
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it basically gives weaker countys a second chance to be beaten..and it gives stronger ones a second chance if they have a bad day..
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As a hurlig fanatic, Hurling crowds are superb but gaa football crowds have fallen i think this is simply down to the style of play now,
Yesterday evening Sligo were at home to Leitrim in a local derby, the loser is out match so it basically throws Kavvie's theory firmly out the window that the crowds will come back when it becomes knockout. I heard a lot of people say that the GAA Football shoud not have taken on the Euros, i think looking at the crowds around that train of thought is impossible to argue with. People have been watching the raw of emotion of Ireland v Italy the drama of Ireland v France then they are supposed to go and watch Westmeath v Kilare plodding around the field hand passing to each other with 15 men behind the ball, i don't think so. Look at the crowd https://twitter.com/sligogaa/status/749282630168875008 |
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Rocketfingers,,,,,,,I hope the day comes when your league gets a 5 figure crowd again.....worrying times.
Richie Sadlier was bang on the money tonight, get the FAI to appoint Brian Kerr to set up a proper youth system........the days of blaming the GAA and John Delaney's salary don't wash anymore. |
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Surely 6 or 7 of them Sligo footballers would walk on to the Sligo Rovers team.
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and tell me us rocket what will happen sligo now?get massacred in next round if they meet a half decent team?while all the club players(whats left of them) train incessantly with no games while the county are still in it..
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Now we can see just how bad Cork are and their style is a failure of the short game. Also shows how Dublin have gone backwards yet again.You need more than well built men at this game.
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The two games last night were turgid filth. More of the same today most likely. Hopefully not.
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Another awful contest in the Connacht football final.
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Don't think any of the top teams will be worried by what they saw today in Galway vs Roscommon match . And some will have to sit through another 70 minutes of pretty banal football .
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just home from clare v laois footbsll qualifier played in rotten conditions..v exciting right to the end
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Put on the Rossies game because as i had a financial interest in it, fell aslep, terrible stuff.
I will say this we may see some better games when the quarters start but shown up badly compared to the hurling or the soccer. |
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Soccer over now for a few weeks.
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Thank god. Horrible competition, horrible football.
Bring on Tipp v Cats |
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I agree, but poor Rocketfingers probably enjoyed that soccer match.
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the soccer was awful putrid stuff.the team that won it played 7 games at the tournament and won 1 on the field of play in normal time..some set up eh
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Even die hard soccer fans are glad the euros are over.
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