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Vubiant
02 Mar 16 16:33
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Date Joined: 02 Aug 04
| Topic/replies: 7,198 | Blogger: Vubiant's blog
Noticed a few interesting items while scanning through the counts.
* Some TDs got elected with as little as 8.8% and even  6.6% (!! )of the 1st preference vote. Zappone was the 6.6 candidate - Dermody  was 3% or 2000 votes ahead of her but lost out.
* Many candidates got more than 11%  first preferences -some as high as 14.37 ,14.87, 14.91 yet lost out.
*Most constituencies had  3,4 or 5 independents clustered at the bottom getting derisory votes ...we saw totals like 59,37 and even 27 ffs ! In one case 6 Inds didn't get even 1000 votes between them. This whole independent thing is a bloody nuisance. How is there a logic to having multiple independents in a constituency anyway ? They're supposed to be elected to 'serve' the constituency but what if they don't have the same policies or priorities ? That would seem to negate the whole exercise.                                               
*Another point that puzzles me about PR is that a tranche of votes up around count 10 or 11 can have  the same value as first preferences.
Similarly, second preferences for eliminated candidates who received derisory totals have the same unit value as second preferences from the surplus of a popular candidate. That seems wrong to me. I reckon there should be a lesser proportional value for lower preferences.

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Replies: 10
By:
Racingqueen
When: 02 Mar 16 17:35
PR voting is an absolute joke. People harp on about FPTP and how it affected UKIP in the British elections but similar was seen here with Renua and the GP getting similar % yet Renua end up with nothing.

Some of those independent candidates were a disgrace. Many would have question marks over their mental health if you read their "manifestos".

Its serious time minimum standards were brought into independent candidates and maximum No. of independent allowed per constituency. In fact, I would ban independents and only allow parties to partake in Parliament 

The simple truth is there is way too many TDs. In the uk, an average member of parliament represents 75,000ish people. In Ireland 3 people represent 45,000(24,000 of whom bothered to take the heroin needle out in order to vote) in Dublin Central. Its a trough and theres plenty of pigs only willing to put themselves forward.
By:
Fayzer
When: 02 Mar 16 18:25
Fianna Fail promised to get rid of Irish Water in there Manifesto and hey presto people voted them back into a position of strength.

I am not happy that they didnt spend longer in limbo in light of the mess we had to deal with, which no matter what way anyone attempts to spin they presided over.

I am not happy about Fine Gael as I feel they have made a complete dogs bo77ocks of so many things in a 5 year period which should have been a penalty kick to get themselves re - elected (Who's whinging now)

I am not happy about the further strengthening of the anti-capitalist looney left which as a private sector worker worries me greatly.

In essence I am totally disillusioned with this country and the people who run it.
By:
workrider
When: 02 Mar 16 19:00
There is a need for Independents imo, Dublin could do with a lot more , for years we in Dublin have been held to ransom by partys more concerned with farmers rights than anything else .  Having also worked for the Dept of Agri for a time , and seeing first hand how this group run the Country almost on their own. They are never satisfied with their lot , if its not milk qoutas its area aid . Hopefully the Indepndents will cause a shift in Government thinking.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 03 Mar 16 10:43
Fine Gael.
They should have gone to the country in November,ran a poor campaign yet their vote management was sensational.
Carlow Kilkenny,Clare,Dun Laoghaire and Lucinda Creightons constituency were prime examples.
They got no reward for their Dail reforms indeed lost a seat to Kenny not appointing his own to the Senate,his appointee the appalling Katherine Zapone used her high profile to beat a genuine FG Ann Marie Dermody by a handful of votes
They should try and form a minority government.

Fianna Fáil.
I knew they were back when the whoopin and hollering started again,men who had remained silent suddenly found their tongues.
The promise to abolish Irish water is old style FF opportunism.
Deserved longer in the doldrums.

Labour
I genuinely think they put the country first.
The snag for them is they are not a party of the working class,they are the quintessential champagne socialists.
Extraordinarily enough it was the strong advocates of " marriage equality " that lost their seats.

Sinn Fein.
How many seats would they have got if Adams wasn't leader,he is toxic.
He is also useless and too old.
For those who dislike PR this is where it works,in seat after seat the Sinn Fein candidate remained stuck and eventually lost.
Wexford,Dublin Bay South and Longford Westmeath are typical.
If Pearse Doherty becomes leader this party will surge,I don't rate Mary Lou.

Social Democrats.
Their three deputies topped the polls but they are disperate,Steven Donnelly has differing views to Roisin Shortall.

Independents.
Lowry topped the poll in Tipperary,Fine Gael have failed to take him on for years this time they got their reward,no seats in a five seater.
The Healy Rae vote in Kerry is a phenomenon I don't get,when watching them you think its Oliver Callan skitting.
By:
Tolmi
When: 03 Mar 16 13:23
In fairness to wildman while I wouldn't agree with many of his views he does have an ability to appraise many situations fairly and accurately.His summation of the election results is one which I would broadly concur with(except the minority government bit)

I think Vubiant's analysis of the % first preference gained is far too simplistic as it takes no account of either the number of seats in a constituency or the number of candidates seeking election.It is only natural that a lower % first preferences in a 20 candidate 5 seater will get a candidate elected than in a small field 3 seater.

I can only assume workrider that your time in the Dept clouded your judgement with your comments.I am not from a farming background but it is obvious that the day of the farmer running the country is gone for years.There is no doubt but that the farming lobby groups were extremely effective but this money is EU rather than national funds.If they were running the country the recovery would be far broader based than the Dublin centered recovery that we have.It would be interesting to hear your friend wildman's view on your comments.

Ironically it is ex public sector workers like yourself that were the main long term beneficiaries of the boom.Bertie Ahern' use of benchmarking bought elections.The use of the short term tax receipts from the building boom to boost public sector wages by large percentages has resulted in a public sector wage bill which is far too high and a knock on effect on public sector pensions for which the country will be paying back for for generations to come.
By:
Racingqueen
When: 03 Mar 16 13:32
Great post Wildman. The Healy Rae vote is easily understandable. They do great work for their constituents. People may call this parish pump but thats what happens in constituency elections. The cabinet decides national policies so why should TDs like the Healy-Raes waste their time on it under the current system.

Good point about the social democrats. Gary Gannon who nearly got elected in Dublin Central would be more in line with SF than Donnelly.

Totally agree about Mary Lou. She would be no improvement. Doherty is an absolute must if they have any hope of gaining voters.
No matter who leads them at the moment though they are not transfer friendly enough.

One point that hasn't been discussed is the media. I think the media have been an absolute disgrace. They seem more interested in tripping up candidates than allowing proper political discourse. The Irish Times and the Independent were an absolute disgrace.
Hard left politicians get way too much airtime in the hope they say something controversial.
By:
DeargDubh
When: 03 Mar 16 18:55
The term parish pump is over used. TD's are supposed to look after the interests of their particular constituencies. I would assume that is why the electorate is split into constituencies. As bad as rural Ireland is now I can only imagine the neglect that would ensue if why hadn't local TD's.
By:
DeargDubh
When: 03 Mar 16 18:56
My apologies, that should read 'if we hadn't local TD's'
By:
RoyalAcademy
When: 04 Mar 16 12:32
For me, the purpose of a GE should be to elect representatives capable of acting in the national good for all. As I said in my deleted post what's the point of County Councillors otherwise?

My part of the constituency suffers from a lack of direct political representation and probably always will due to geographic circumstances but there has been plenty of public-purse spending on schools and health infrastructure without "cap in hand" begging. I think this is a telling example of why so many "me feiners" are wrong. Thousands on the streets for local hospital closures, for example, when world class services might be an inconvenient trip away. I personally find the thought of using a TD for personal favours objectionable and its not what the Dail should be about.

This leaves the question of how many TD's do we need?

Start with need and usefulness and consider how many we would need for proper public accountability, something those in the famous "inner circle" seem never have to fear.

Some of the tasks that could be set them-these should be all cross-party/independent reps; every Minister and department held to account every day of every year:

Budgetary and fiscal competency: abolish the economic council and appoint the brightest and best we have on a year-round basis

Sports body: overview of bodies such as Olympic Council (Hickey's dictatorship), GAA, FAI (how badly needed is that?), Lottery, ad hoc committees on children in sport, horse racing and the spending of €65m in public funds, current debate on concussion......the list is endless

Charity Supervision: after the Frank Flannery two fingers and the scandal of Rehab how many more charities need accountability and being called to account? As I understand it, the "hard" questions come from Revenue in setting up charities and getting the "CHY" reference number; thereafter it's a dawdle from lack of supervision

Foreign Affairs: where would you start? from nuclear non-proliferation to refugees to Brexit to countless matters of public importance

Gambling Commission: gambling is out of control in Ireland with PP way ahead of the curve. Read about the recent fines for PP in the UK for allowing, even encouraging problem gamblers and you will see how many unaccounted-for problems we have here: Gorey post office double theft anyone? (no-one ever even asked the question of pukey poor I suspect)

Quango control: every so often we discover that this body and that body receive a generous few hundred grand from the public purse and we are LUCKY is this is looked at once in every 10 years by the Comptroller And Auditor General......a task for a dail sub-committee to keep many busy

Health: keep the department, HSE and minister accountable every day. This HSE org seems unreformable so give it 5/10 more TD's to assist/monitor the cabinet minister. Give each one a responsibility for individual aspects of primary care, HR etc.

Education, schools, religious orders, universities...................billions spent from the public purse and one Minister who usually is not even asked to annual conferences.....make these Unions ACCOUNTABLE for their actions on a regular basis so that the public at large knows all the agendas, hidden or otherwise.

Arts, culture and history: a little pre-planning from this committee would have possibly staved off attempted the hijacking of 1916 by all and sundry. Committees will encourage public debate.

Legislation and dail procedure: proper debates, no guillotining, standards in public office, votes for cabinet posts based on experience, education and overall suitability......Mary Loo as defence minister, for example.

Defence and security: how many TD's would be busy tracking the Gardaí's efforts (or apparent lack or failure) to shut down smuggling, racketeering, inner city mobs, Garda intransigence, whistleblower protection............

Add your own committee of choice........................

There's a serious and intelligent use of national parliamentarians without asking them to fix your jacks
By:
Arklearkle
When: 04 Mar 16 14:06
We are supposed to elect people to legislate not to look after parish pumps - thats what local politicians are for. FG and Lab ran bad campaigns but had put the country first - five years ago no one would lend us money and if it hadnt been handled well we would have ended up like Greece. The people here wouldnt know austerity if it bit them on the arse. The way hes behaving youd think Michael Martin had won the Euromillions when in effect he has presided over FFs 2nd worst result since the 1920s. We have ended up with a ragbag of TDs which obviously reflect the electorate which is worrying. Perhaps Dev got it right all those years back when he tried to change the voting system and if he had succeeded we wouldnt have the current mess. The Irish media is a disgrace and gives all the lefties a disproportionate amount of coverage.
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