Irish Sports
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28 Jan 16
21:52
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Date Joined:
30 Nov 10
Just for DJ876.
I've noticed that over the last year the shows for Irish racing have been coming in later and later.
This seems deliberate and is a way of stopping lads getting on first show and seeing the market.
I was in Thurles for the two days,crowds were poor but was in the ring for the Thurles Handicap Hurdle on Wednesday.
Charles Byrnes had just won the maiden hurdle with Oscar Lantern so all eyes were on his runner Cyprian Prince.
It opened 2/1 that didnt last long but its next price 7/4 did,admittedly there didnt seem to be much betting going on.
Bit by bit the 7/4 seemed to disappear without bets being struck,it contracted to 13/8.
I saw and heard some big bets struck at that price,it then went 6/4 and tumbled to 11/8 and then 5/4,my point is it didnt take some massive fall from say 2/1 to 5/4,this was gradual.
11/10 came and went as did the evens,it finally finished at 9/10 with some showing evens.
Imagine my surprise when none of this activity was reflected in the betting shops,they managed to have its opening show 9/10.
Today was a horrible day,was walking through the betting ring for the last,not surprised to see them bet 5 the field as I thought it was an impossible race.
According to Irish Racing Results Milanesque opened 3/1 went to 100/30 and back to 3/1.
Milanesque is also an example of whats wrong with Novice Chases
I've noticed that over the last year the shows for Irish racing have been coming in later and later.
This seems deliberate and is a way of stopping lads getting on first show and seeing the market.
I was in Thurles for the two days,crowds were poor but was in the ring for the Thurles Handicap Hurdle on Wednesday.
Charles Byrnes had just won the maiden hurdle with Oscar Lantern so all eyes were on his runner Cyprian Prince.
It opened 2/1 that didnt last long but its next price 7/4 did,admittedly there didnt seem to be much betting going on.
Bit by bit the 7/4 seemed to disappear without bets being struck,it contracted to 13/8.
I saw and heard some big bets struck at that price,it then went 6/4 and tumbled to 11/8 and then 5/4,my point is it didnt take some massive fall from say 2/1 to 5/4,this was gradual.
11/10 came and went as did the evens,it finally finished at 9/10 with some showing evens.
Imagine my surprise when none of this activity was reflected in the betting shops,they managed to have its opening show 9/10.
Today was a horrible day,was walking through the betting ring for the last,not surprised to see them bet 5 the field as I thought it was an impossible race.
According to Irish Racing Results Milanesque opened 3/1 went to 100/30 and back to 3/1.
Milanesque is also an example of whats wrong with Novice Chases
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Replies: 23
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Nothing was backed in the shops,it was all on the daq with Cyrian Prince.
Both exchanges "bots" work in tandem to a large extent. When i posted first on the juv hur thread, it was availble at 3.5,what happened very quickly was a 5k lump going in to back at a tick below betfair,that dragged betfair down,it was relentess as new 5k,s kept appearing when filled. Both exchanges had very similar amounts matched in the race,unusual for the daq as the market is made up from odds instead of matched. Someone had a 6 figure loss as they were prepared to take any price. |
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Who owns Daq
Was this their way of shortening the price. It can't for obvious reasons have been the trainer. |
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I'm missing the obvious reasons??Why not..
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No,doubt it was anything to do with price shortening,very rare to see anything like that there for so extreme.
Could be wrong but thought it was the actions of an indivual and a punter at that. Only conjecture and no naming of names but a well known one was pulling strings before changeover and i've no idea is he still involved. |
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Tolmi.
Solwhit in Fairyhouse. They often used agents in the past,could be one of them. |
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On reflection that's too amateurish for them,they would never put up chunks like that.
Big sums scare layers which seems the point of this exercise. |
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That could be the reason the plunge was on the daq with the price here following. I don't think the daq have the same Memorandum of Understanding as here.
In any event there is no issue with a trainer backing his horse.Its laying is the issue. As pa lapsy has said its all conjecture but the placing of a continuous stream of 5k bets would surely narrow it down to a handful of possibilities. |
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Were the 5k bets matched fast?
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Fair point Tolmi,they are scrupulous about client confidentiality.
That trainer has consistently claimed to have no knowledge of exchanges never mind accounts. Two possibilities in my opinion,a new way of shortening horse or an old agent,my money would be on the former. |
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Yes Cloone River,they were all a tick or two lower than betfair,all happened in the last 10-12 minutes,they were getting matched by the daq bot as they were lower than bf.
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Why would anyone wanting to shorten it place a large number (and large denomination) bets on an exchange?
Surely in Thurles on a Wednesday backing it on track would reduce the SP quicker?I think plenty of the bets placed were matched. I can't see why anyone would want to shorten it that badly anyway.Its not as if anyone was backing it at SP. |
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I may be out of my depth here but how do you know its a Daq robot,would it not be more likely a Betfair robot.
The Thurles layers are on Daq,could they not have been the ones laying hence the price shortening. It seems to me rather than put money through the ring you can effectively treat the robotic on course layers as their foot soldiers by placing some cheese on a string. |
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There are very few layers on there Wildman,when a suspension occurs you see the naked truth and it isn't pretty, it is safe enough for me to say most transactions are bot ones and not an actual layer.
The daq "bets" are flung back on betfair by themselves at a tick or two better price and imo that is the way the daq operates. |
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I'd imagine any bot was simultaneously laying on the daq and backing here thus arbing on the couple of ticks differential.
The pattern of the bets would indicate it was an individual backing it rather than a few laying off.I doubt any layer on track who laid a big bet at 6\4 or bigger would be laying off at evens. |
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The layers are tracking the exchange prices,they could be going 11/10 on seeing the chunk at odds on they robotically shorten the horse and may snaffle some of the money trying to get on,that's what I mean by the cheese on the string.
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I believe/think it was an individual as well who wanted on, it was the only time "lumps" could be got on.
As said on the juv thread they/him wanted 10k at 1.9 on daq, bf if i remember rightly were approx 1.94. It seemed to have been a gamble on the daq only to me,the rest books and bf collapsed on the strength of it. |
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I'm afraid you have lost me wildman.
Obviously they'll shorten it if they are bigger than the exchange price but the rest of your theory I can't follow.I can see why it might on an occasion suit a ring layer to lay on an exchange but surely not to the extent that this was laid. |
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Should it ever have been a 9/10 shot?what price was it in runing?
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Certainly not on form,tbf it looked the winner before 3 out and even again just before turning in.
Stewards reported it blew hard after. The raise in trip in hindsight very probably caused the gamble to come unstuck,get the feeling a few furlongs less and possibly could have collected. |
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Never like horses going from chaseing back to hurdles.Did it trade short in runing palapsy?
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1.9 also is the lowest it went i/r CR,so not that low.
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Thanks palapsy.The i/r price explains alot.
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I,m not much wiser CR but what harm.
Just a very simple example of what i mean by the daq bot Wildman. Say on the back side of betfair is like so, £200 @ 1.94,£400 @ 1.93, £400 @ 1.92, £500 @ 1.91. 10K man putting it in at 1.9 on daq will nearly always certainly get matched to the tune of £1500 on bf,s 1.91+, these disappear because the daq bot is arbing and has taken these(blink of an eye). Anything 1.91+ put up on betfair is also taken,this was the ploy the whole way down from approx 3.0 with Cyrian. |