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ko2
13 Jun 15 15:28
Joined:
Date Joined: 01 Jan 00
| Topic/replies: 695 | Blogger: ko2's blog
they seem to be gone at the game.  they have no confidence whatsoever in any of the kids they have pricing up events , if you are lucky and they take a ton off you at say 6s next thing they cut it to 9/2,  , it seems to be one bet and thjey cut the price , ,

wouldnt even bother tryng to get on the night before with them as they wont take anything.

presume everyone else struggling to get on any sort of decent bet with them and the other chains?
Pause Switch to Standard View Powers slide downhill continues
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Report Eddie Batt June 13, 2015 3:54 PM BST
In my opinion the decline is in their customer service -I had a dispute/ query with them a couple of years ago regarding a horse racing bet-shop manager couldn't get his head around it he gave me a number to call,customer services guy couldn't understand it and put me on to a second customer service guy.He didn't know how to deal with the query but made up for his lack of knowledge with intimidation and aggression.
Back in the 80's it wasn't unusual to read critical stories about the big English bookmakers in the Irish media-Paddy Power were set up to take them on in terms  of customer service.For years they were excellent but if you have a dispute with them you are odds against to get a decision in your favour.Like the banks in the greedy years the more they have the more they want.
Report kavvie June 13, 2015 10:07 PM BST
they seem to be gone very bad in the last few months.i have defended them here in the past but now they seem to take offence to anyone winning a few quid..
Report mincer11 June 13, 2015 11:39 PM BST
It's not so much a downhill slide , it's more of a general tightening of their business model. More and more they squeeze the life out of any punter with even the semblance of a chance of winning . Their morning prices are a joke nowadays or should I say their early ones . Betting to 3% a runner and putting the prices up 24 hours beforehand are the latest manouevres, whilst another beauty is not taking the shows from the tracks until as late as possible , as they want to be able to lay their own prices as long as possible .
What they are targeting now are small recreational punters who aren't price sensitive and will bet on almost anything . It would be amazing to see what percentage of the social welfare in this country finishes up over the counter with these crowd. The one thing that I must commend them on is their Gam Care Awareness policy, I'm not sure how much you have to lose exactly before they notify the authorities , but it's more than 1.7 million , because that's what the guy in Carlow lost and they never opened their mouth about that chap, and for an organisation who like the limelight , they seemed strangely subdued when that case was hitting the headlines .
Report Kelly June 14, 2015 1:34 AM BST
Think they have gone the way of most of the other bookies , viz thou shalt not win . If you do spot a decent price with them it invariably disappears before you can blink , presumably because some shrewdie has pressed the max bet button before you .

Used to lay a decent bet years ago , cut that to a non serious amount , now they wont lay anything to lose more than 20 quid or so . Guess they have become as risk averse as the other high street bean counters masquerading as layers .

Presumably some can get on in the shops before the exposure percolates through , but that presupposes a presence in the shops .  Who wants to stand in a bookies these days for more than a few minutes , there is no craic ( fewer punters) and there is bombardment with numpty offers on events you wouldn't bet on if you had any savvy .
Report insideinfo June 14, 2015 9:31 AM BST
they are a joke alrite! must have done a cull this wk as an account i was using was limited to practically nothing (ie max bet 1.84 on 7/1 overnight) im actually puzzled as the account is winning very little if anything.only thing i can think of is i had 3 winners in a yankee recently and the last horse went from 14/1 to 4/1 and got beaten.i guess the thought of someone even getting close to a touch is too much for them.
Report Gallistic June 14, 2015 12:25 PM BST
Powers are very very bad but Boyles are out on their own when it comes to woeful "bookmaking", take less than 10 cents on some bets at overnight prices.
Report callitasucit June 14, 2015 9:18 PM BST
Inside, I don't think the winners count as much as an individual continually getting over the odds, or value, in comparison to SP.

I opened a Sporting Bet account awhile back. Had 4 bets on horses, one on golf outright market. One horse returned an e.w dividend, the rest were out with washing, golfer missed cut. Well in the negative.

But 3 of the 4 horses started at less than 40% of the price taken. Account was done with straight away.

If a lad backed 30 winners out of 40 over 3 days, but took any old price, and was continuously backing favs, he would more than likely be persevered with. Peter O Hehir for example!!
Report The Gotchee June 14, 2015 9:25 PM BST
Tin roofer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Report jimeen June 14, 2015 9:39 PM BST
The gotchee, from what i've seen of your knowledge and opinion, you neednt be worried about being restricted any time soon.
Report paddletoe June 15, 2015 8:53 AM BST
Anyone know what kind of software they use when limiting accounts? My last new account with them was limited before I even had a single bet. Previous to that they carried out a night of long knives against every single account associated with members of my family. Okay I was using these other accounts but it was a very sophisticated shut out. The way that they did it was to combine and link liabilities to all the different accounts.
Report neill d June 15, 2015 4:12 PM BST
If you're using the same laptop from the same place, maybe it is an IP thing?
Report Kelly June 15, 2015 10:46 PM BST
Paddletoe , a friend / acquaintance of mine did some work for some of the bookies a while ago( including PP I think ) .  Not sure exactly what their spec was , but this guy runs a very professional outfit in software terms , and I reckon it is hard to be a step ahead of them now . Only way to beat the bookies nowadays is via the shops , cash only , sub floor limits .

If you are backing winners regularly , or shorteners  , up goes the drawbridge . They would also be able to cross check accounts , particularly if bets were coming in for the same horse in a limited time frame .

A lot of my accounts ( I have none except in my own name) were limited or closed within about a week some years ago , too big a coincidence for there not to be collusion / swopping info etc .
Report ko2 June 16, 2015 8:20 AM BST
online its long been impossible to keep an account unfactored with them, they are simply terrible, i was referring to the shops now going the same way, even new guys putting bets on are finding it tough, still the odd shop where the manager turns a blind eye but not too many.

early prices are a thing of the past for a lot of punters now unless you go around the shops with small money or pay someone to do it,  a lot of the time its a case of waiting til 10 mins before race and hoping price is stil lthere on betfair or if not consider alternative selection.

on  side not funny these tipsters claiming 30/40 pc roi on advised prices, its just ridiculous as no one can get on, think a l,ot of them have set up subscription services as they cant get on anywhere so might as well make a few quid that way, its easy pick out bookies ricks but not easy to take advantage of it.
Report kavvie June 16, 2015 9:31 AM BST
ive had accounts with the lot of them.im now effectively locked out of them all,and its not that ive been overly successful.my only options from now on is either betfair(low liquidity during morning so if theres a mover you got no chance of the best price here)  or cash over the counter.my nearest shop(tullys) are usually bottom price on oddschecker so do i drive the 25 min  to nearest pp or boils?  thems the choices...your stomach would turn to see them grinning bookies reps in royal ascot this morn on the morning line.
Report ko2 June 16, 2015 10:02 AM BST
not good at all kavvie especially if you are relying on it for your income,can make money on here but on certain types of horses you have no chance at all of getting on as the price will be long gone while there would only have been buttons available here in early trading
Report reb June 16, 2015 3:45 PM BST
Richard Oakley, who wrote the article (below), is looking for successful online gamblers to get in touch with him as he will be writing a follow up article further revealing the reality of online gambling and how bookmakers differentiate between customers :

https://webmail.eircom.net/service/home/~/08032015.pdf?auth=co&loc=en_GB&id=179720&part=2


I thought it was a excellent article and got in touch with Richard subsequently. He assures me that all communication with him will be confidential.

From his twitter account, yesterday :

Are you an online gambler? Are you successful and have your bets been limited? If so, please contact me. richard.oakley@the-times.ie
Report ilikewavingatbuses June 16, 2015 4:09 PM BST
This is the place for him then, 90% of forum users can't get a bet  on because theyre so prolific.
Report reb June 16, 2015 4:34 PM BST
wavingatbuses, I'm sure there are all sorts of people who will read this thread. What we all have in common is that we like a bet online.

If you, or anyone else reading this, have found that your online gambling has been restricted because of your success, I would urge you to get in touch with Richard Oakley (he's the editor of the Sunday Times in Ireland).

All of this is part of a process designed to educate about the nature of modern-day bookmaking. Ultimately, that will help all of us to make more informed decisions regarding our betting activity.
Report Anywherebutcheltenham June 16, 2015 9:27 PM BST
They're offering worse prices in shops now than online. Looking at the more fancied
golfers in the US open, they were offering Matsuyama 33/1 in shop, 35/1 online,
Furyk 35/1 in shop, 40/1 online. They aren't running any special offers on it either.

They should change their name to Scabby Powers
Report kavvie June 16, 2015 9:41 PM BST
ilwb u miss the point...they restrict you even if you had 6 losing bets in a row,if you take a price that beats the sp...dont think anyone is claiming to be backing lots of winners etc.i think its showing a bit if intelligence bet wise that gets you restricted.
Report ko2 June 17, 2015 12:15 PM BST
you would think at big meeting like ascot they would be willing to take punters on but this isnt the case , zero faith in their so called odds compilers/traders,

they wouldnt even take 500 on an odds on shot in copa america the other day .

dont do horses but for anyone who bets football pinnacle sports are great , take big bets , dont limit you if you win and normally very competitive prices
Report kavvie June 17, 2015 1:07 PM BST
do they do rugby bets ko2?
Report ko2 June 17, 2015 1:35 PM BST
there rugby service wouldnt be brilliant ,. they do bet on it but limits not that high, say tomorrows league match between cas and st helens they are 1.95 both sides on handicap 5.5 . maxbet is 325 if you want another 325 the line will probably go 1.89 and then another 325 it might go 1.84. at least they properly trade the markets
Report ko2 June 17, 2015 1:37 PM BST
their rugby service even..
Report kavvie June 17, 2015 1:49 PM BST
fair enough 325 would suit me grand.better than 3.25 ive been offered of late!!!!
Report ko2 June 17, 2015 2:30 PM BST
meant to say the day of the game the limits will increase a fair bit,just checked  this weeks nrl games no problem getting 3 grand on handicaps  if you wanted it
Report tony57 June 17, 2015 5:22 PM BST
there's a rumour that pp..are trying to buy ladcrooks??? 1.6 billion..hedge fund also involved, just a rumour but guy who told me works in the city ...
Report ko2 June 17, 2015 7:06 PM BST
they wouldnt be able to buy ladbrokes in ireland anyway due competition aithority i would say..

why are they advertising  ew 6 places in certain races at ascot , they wont lay ew with standard terms so really a pointless offer, sounds great but no chance of them laying a bet
Report BigRob1 June 20, 2015 12:45 AM BST
The customer service over the phone or direct in shops if you have a problem now has gone to the dogs, the staff just don't seem to give a fook any more .
I've noticed lately from going back to old shops that most shop staff have been  around for years and just seem like they don't want to be there anymore .

Maybe they have the same attitude as punters the company's not the same as it was before hence the uninterested attitude.

I don't know if anyone remembers Tom the manager from the Tallaght shop from around 1998 , he was what PP was all about back then ,
a gent who looked after the punter  but also loved his job ,was happy to see the punter win but also if there was a dispute would settle it with bit of common sense .
Report reb June 20, 2015 11:30 AM BST
"Powers slide downhill continues"

Share Price:  7/12/00     2.75euro

             14/10/08    11.70euro

             21/07/11    34.37euro

             19/06/15    78.00euro


From a Director's/Shareholder's perspective that's not a downhill slide !
Report Send.in.the.clowns June 20, 2015 12:29 PM BST
Indeed reb, the harsh realities are no one wants to play bookmaker anymore- why bother?

If you have the financial marketing clout of PPs simply get floods of new accounts, limit anyone with any sort of a clue and watch the mugs do their brains..... simples.

The fact is anyone limited falls a mile outside the punter they aim at anyhow- I still think you can get a few quid in shops if you are hard nosed enough. but nowhere near as much
Report ko2 June 20, 2015 1:07 PM BST
there slide downhill continues was a refernece to their usefullness to even average punters ,  before they used to be half reasonable as in they would lay an average bet, now they are pathetic, as are most firms by the way.

most people are too thick to see the way powers operate these days,
Report reb June 20, 2015 1:54 PM BST
I know what you meant, ko2, by your thread title and I agree with your criticism of PP and the bookmaking business generally.

Bookmaking has changed irrevocably in the past 20 years with the advent of the internet. The industry now has the technical ability to recognise and restrict/close accounts that show even an inclination towards winning and are acting accordingly. By means of this same technology,however, they could,at the very least,easily provide customers with information that will help them to "bet responsibly" and continue to "have fun" betting.

EVERY online customer should be able to readily view their account with the following stats displayed prominently :

Total number of bets since account opened

Total amount staked since account opened

Total returns since account opened
Report kavvie June 20, 2015 2:19 PM BST
i guess you cant blame them for adopting the model they have.after all the share price tells all you need to know.and go into any pp in any provincial town and observe whats happening.them are the people they want..
Report reb June 30, 2015 1:04 PM BST
Re my post at 15.45 on 16th June above, Richard Oakley is still looking for forumites to contact him,in confidence, regarding their stories of restrictions being placed on their online betting accounts by bookmakers. He is writing an article detailing the reality of modern-day online gambling.

He has had contact from just three people so far. His email address is richard.oakley@the-times.ie
His work phone number is 01 4792451.
Report Send.in.the.clowns June 30, 2015 2:36 PM BST
I just rung him, heard a hare bell in the background. He must get in ok
Report pa lapsy July 1, 2015 10:47 AM BST
Reb, i know he wouldn't be the editor for nothing but for an article like that he would want a fair grasp of betting, it could be a mundane piece unless so.
Report pa lapsy July 1, 2015 11:10 AM BST
Surely a form of "restriction" also applies to the bookies "alternative" namely here, you have an "allowance" of £1000,if you are profitable on here that is used up quite quickly.
The restriction works under the guise of "premium charge" where is is alleged the customer isn't "generating" enough commission. After your 1k allowance is used you are on 20%(or 22% commission therefore in most cases making the account unworkable and hence redundant. Winning the paltry amount of 5euro a day over the course of 5 years can qualify.
Report reb July 2, 2015 11:11 AM BST
pa, there are many journalists/editors within the racing and other media who have more than "a fair grasp of betting" but who wouldn't even consider writing the kind of, tell-it-as-it-is, article that Richard Oakley is currently trying to put together with our help. I think you may know the reason for that.
Report callitasucit July 2, 2015 1:28 PM BST
http://twitter.com/paddypower/status/6165261904476685312

Very goodLaugh
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