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dj876
04 May 15 11:16
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Date Joined: 01 Jul 10
| Topic/replies: 6,249 | Blogger: dj876's blog
Publicly criticised by Gordon Elliot after taking a wide course at Cheltenham.

WPM stalled in mid-flow in the aftermath of Don Poli,WPM "Brian thought he was never travelling but I don't know........" I believe he was thinking Brian should have made more use of him.

His interview with Tracy Piggott after Petiite Parisienne's victory was beyond strange,he was like a lost boy in contrast to a previously articulate young man.

I am a fan but can't dispute he has ridden poorly this season, he is really good friends with Robbie Mac and has had a few serious recent injuries which are some mitigation.

No one riding better than Paul Townend (including Ruby) in the UK/Ireland brimming with confidence.
Pause Switch to Standard View Brian Cooper and Gigginstown
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Report newapproach May 4, 2015 11:33 AM BST
The horrific injury he had last year surely has to excuse the disappointing season he has had this year. I thought he was riding OK before cheltenham but the faster tempo and the need to make quicker decisions highlighted his lack of confidence. The interview with Piggott was no surprise consdiering the lack of confidence he has shown in the saddle last few months and was just a reflection in his interview style. The fact he had picked the wrong horse on a couple of occasions probably added to this.

It was bad form of Elliot to criticise his ride at cheltenham. He was a jockey himself and aware of the effects a fall and injury like that can have on a jockey. They are all part of the one operation and any criticisms should have been made in private.
Report dj876 May 4, 2015 11:46 AM BST
Riding ok before Cheltenham?

Have a look at his rides at Punchestown on New Year's eve,he managed to get Petite parisienne beaten by Chattam house rules in a maiden and his ride on as de ferbet in the opener that day was as bad.

It's a cut throat business,you can't use an injury from last year to mitigate for performance this year.Connections would give you some leeway maybe 6-8 weeks.

Do you believe his position is secure?
Report newapproach May 4, 2015 11:55 AM BST
You can't just pick out a couple of bad rides and say that he was riding badly all year. He gave plenty of horses good rides during the winter also - dedigout on thyestes day, road to riches in the lexus was a brilliant ride etc.

His job probably isn't secure unfortunately but it should be. When they gave him the job, I presume one of the reasons he was chosen is because of his youth and the fact that he could be in the job for 15, 20 years god willing. He should be given 5 years at least.

I have no doubt he will come back to be as good as ever, he just needs his employers to show the same sort of faith in him and he should be OK.
Report Arklearkle May 4, 2015 3:32 PM BST
I did not hear the Elliott interview but if he criticised him publicly he should be ashamed of himself. Cooper is young and has to be given a chance. There is no substitute for experience and its ridiculous at this stage to expect him to measure up to the APs BGs and RWs in that regard. With so many horses in different stables it can be very difficult to pick the best one in a race. I have never been a big supporter of owner jockeys and with Giggi having many good horses capable of competing at grade one level I believe they would be much better off using stable jockeys. However for his age and experience I reckon BC is fine.
Report Arklearkle May 4, 2015 3:32 PM BST
I did not hear the Elliott interview but if he criticised him publicly he should be ashamed of himself. Cooper is young and has to be given a chance. There is no substitute for experience and its ridiculous at this stage to expect him to measure up to the APs BGs and RWs in that regard. With so many horses in different stables it can be very difficult to pick the best one in a race. I have never been a big supporter of owner jockeys and with Giggi having many good horses capable of competing at grade one level I believe they would be much better off using stable jockeys. However for his age and experience I reckon BC is fine.
Report tocky junior May 4, 2015 10:32 PM BST
Being blamed for not being
Report tocky junior May 4, 2015 10:32 PM BST
Being blamed for not being
Report tocky junior May 4, 2015 10:33 PM BST
positive enuf on don cosack at chil....mccoy backed up this argument when he fired himat everything
Report Rocketfingers May 4, 2015 11:00 PM BST
Big fan of Coops, will be one of the best in the biz and a jock i picked out from early doors.
Report TellTheKing May 4, 2015 11:25 PM BST
Cooper had his licence about three years before he was any use as a rider.

Most jockeys go through fallow periods where their confidence can take a hit. Cooper was the beneficiary when the pressure started to mount up on Davy and he has established himself as one of the top riders around. However, he has been very hit and miss for large parts of the season. The story goes that his bottle is questionable since coming back and it’s badly affecting his riding. It’s well known that the faith in camp isn’t strong these days and there has been some public utterances on same as mentioned above.

He would be the first jockey in history to regain his bottle so it’s up in the air. It’s easy to say that Giggy should stand by him but there’s no room for weakness at the level they play at especially with Rich Ricci’s firepower.
Report Rocketfingers May 4, 2015 11:47 PM BST
Maybe to the naked eye not to the trained one.
Report callitasucit May 5, 2015 1:24 AM BST
Have to say TTK, I thought BJGs bottle was gone prior to his move to Hendos. Maybe it wasn't the bottle, but he certainly had a wobbly patch.

From a Giggy point of view, I would give BC the benefit of the doubt at the moment. The reward from same could certainly outweigh any risk involved. They would be sick to give him away, and see him rediscover his undoubted class.

I for one hope he has a cracking 2015/16 season.
Report TellTheKing May 5, 2015 9:40 AM BST
I think it was more a case of Geraghy's enthusiasm waning for a while after the Moscow / KK glory days Callit. He has admitted as much himself in the past. He got the mojo back in time for the Spring Festivals in '08. I think the ride where he almost stole a Grade 1 on Punjabi cemented the link with Nicky.

There's no doubt that Cooper looked an immense talent prior to this season. He had probably surpassed Townend as a chase rider. However, if he doesn't get back to where he was then Giggy may be throwing him the parachute. As evidenced previously, they aren't a very sentimental bunch. Eddie wouldn't be long throwing him under the bus particularly if he had back-up from the trainers.
Report neill d May 5, 2015 10:23 AM BST
If Townend doesn't at least get the option of a McManus or Gigginstown job, it will be a travesty.
Report Ozymandius May 5, 2015 10:29 AM BST
Not sure I agree with that, TTK.

I don't know what went on with Davy Russell, but in Coopers case I think they would be more likely to put their hands around his young shoulders and help him through this spell.  They are sound men and will give him time.
Report TellTheKing May 5, 2015 10:47 AM BST
Well Ozy if it were me I would give him a chance (say the rest of 2015) in order to get his head right and get back on form. The operation he's working for may not be so forgiving.

There's a dearth in top riding talent these days, especially now that Davy Condon is gone. Even look at yesterday where Elliot used an amateur (as fine a rider as Bon O' Neill is) on three of his. There wasn't a handful of alternative riders there. An on-form Cooper would be most welcome in Irish racing.
Report Ozymandius May 5, 2015 11:00 AM BST
In the right situation, I would be confident that they can and will be plenty forgiving.  Let's hope he responds.
Report workrider May 5, 2015 4:05 PM BST
Having watched Cooper most days he's been riding since he came back from injury , I'd say he's one of the best there is , his presentation of a horse at a fence is second to none imo , yes recently his form has dipped ,but not because he has lost his bottle ,btw TTK I'd side with Callit re BJG ..Cooper has still got the skills to remain at the top and hopefully things will turn right for the lad ..People forget he lost his mentor a short while ago ..If anyone wants to they can pm me and I'll explain a little more ..No gossips please...
Report Ozymandius May 5, 2015 5:09 PM BST
Kindly keep such private and personal information private...don't be advertising for lads to PM you to 'hear all about it!'

FFS....You are worse than a washer woman!!
Report Ozymandius May 5, 2015 5:16 PM BST
Are you sure there isn't a streak of a gawd dang QQuuuuaaar in you?
Report workrider May 5, 2015 5:18 PM BST
Poor Ozy , really hurting by my reference to , Gossips ....Laugh
Report Ozymandius May 5, 2015 5:20 PM BST
Laugh
Report wildmanfromborneo May 5, 2015 5:38 PM BST
My sympathy is always with the jockey.

This poor fellow got a shocking injury in Cheltenham,he almost lost his leg.
He is not the same since,there is a nervousness that is getting transferred down the reins,this has been exacerbated by the dreadful injuries suffered by his pal Robbie McNamara.

Its possible he will get his old self back but unlikely.
Its also why I think they are underpaid.
Report workrider May 5, 2015 5:55 PM BST
PM'd you Wildmanfromborneo..
Report dj876 May 5, 2015 6:03 PM BST
3 winners from last his 70 rides is a shocking return with the horses he's riding.

Anyone that thinks he is currently riding ok or just below par isn't watching the racing.

Anyone that believes in any professional sport that you should be allowed leeway of 5 years isn't living in the real world.

Bryan Cooper seems a very decent skin and is more intelligent than the average jockey which is probably another reason for his nervousness.

No one is doubting how good he was or criticising him from a personal point of view but it's as clear as day what's going on.
Report TellTheKing May 5, 2015 6:50 PM BST
I think your above post has caught succinctly the situation DJ.

No one wants to see him lose his role but if he doesn’t regain his confidence then it will have serious repercussions for his retainer. I’ll admit that I didn’t even notice it myself until the turn of the year as he had been fine at Leopardstown and beforehand (Don Cossack, Road To Riches, Clarcam, Don Poli and Valseur Lido all won big chases under him). He had appeared to come back strong from the injury. However, there has been any number of questionable rides in the past few months.

Whether it’s a delayed response from the injury (the worst of it’s type the Turf Club doctor had seen) or personal matters it’s something he will need to address and quickly.
Report newapproach May 5, 2015 7:54 PM BST
When you appoint a young athlete to any sporting position, It is assumed that there will be mistakes @ the beginning and lessons learned quickly as a result. 5 years is not unreasonable for any 21 year old going into such a position. No employer worth their salt would sack such a talented young athlete just because they are going through a rocky few months. Gigginstown are a shrewd operation, they let an excellent jockey go in Russell because they recognised the youth and talent of Cooper and what an asset that would be in the future. They should not be so foolish to sack him just because he is going through a couple of months of poor form. They also know bar townend, there is no jockey around that is anywhere near as good as he is at his best.

The two rides you mention at punchestown were indeed very poor. But there were a lot of good rides given throughout the winter right up until Cheltenham. All the good novice hurdlers and chasers were brought to the cotswolds having won throughout the winter and were at the heads of the markets. Cheltenham and Punchestown were indeed disasterous,but he deserves a chance to regain his confidence and show what a good rider he is.
Report newapproach May 5, 2015 7:55 PM BST
'no young jockey bar townend ' I meant above
Report Racingqueen May 5, 2015 9:10 PM BST
3 winners from last his 70 rides is a shocking return with the horses he's riding.

Anyone that thinks he is currently riding ok or just below par isn't watching the racing.



How many winners you think he should have had? I cant see many mounts that should have won. More than his fair share of dogs too like Rocky Wednesday and Fort Smith.....Don Poli ran stink but cant see how jockey can be blamed for that. Rest simply werent good enough.....Tiger Roll, Lieutenant Colonel needs a bog, Savello etc...

Elliot is a gob5hite who is only too happy to blame jocks....has criticised Andrew Lynch before and Nico de Boinvill at Chelts previews. He is a massively over rated trainer. Mullins comments didnt even hint at criticism of the jock, just that the reason for the poor run wasn't yet known.

Simple truth is whoever is advising Gigginstown on their purchases is no Harold Kirk thats for sure
Report mitch leary May 5, 2015 9:58 PM BST
If everyone had the money kirk has at his disposal it would be easy. We don't get to see the duds he buys cos if they're no good they don't make the track. It's a conveyor belt at Mullins.
I'm surprised at Elliott blaming jockeys. Although a decent pilot He wasn't beyond making mistakes when he was riding.
Report mincer11 May 5, 2015 10:25 PM BST
Cooper isn't that well liked by his peers and that makes life more difficult than it should be for him.
Report callitasucit May 5, 2015 11:27 PM BST
I was surprised at Elliot publicly slating BC, but anyone can say anything when angry in the heat of the moment. Saying he is a massively over rated trainer is just pure bollox.

He has made his way from scratch, he had no silver spoon, and has more than earned his position in Irish racing and beyond. Is a thoroughly decent sort, and to quote more than one of his stable staff..."the best I have ever worked for".
Report newapproach May 6, 2015 7:12 AM BST
I was surprised at Elliott also callit and  think he is an excellent trainer but I don't think you can put it down to heat of the moment, he made the criticism after thunder zone won at cork a week later. Agree with everything you said as regards him as a trainer though.
Report Racingqueen May 6, 2015 8:43 AM BST
i agree he is a decent trainer. I was talking out of my hole
Report dj876 July 3, 2015 7:58 PM BST
Cooper still riding devoid of any confidence even in the lower leagues of summer jumping, can only win on steering jobs (sometimes).

Terrible decision by Gigginstown to replace Russell with him. Bottle is gone,too many injuries to himself and close pals.

He was completely outridden on Disputed by Jack Kennedy last week, nailed by a short head and also by Bryan Hayes (ffs) to somehow get Cecil Corbett (bit quirky) beaten. Top jockeys will get these home and should make the difference rather than being a liability.

22nd June -Disputed beaten a sh (matched 1.03 IR). Absolutely 100% outridden by crack claimer

20th June - Cooper goes for a run up the inside,loses lengths and failes to get the frustrating Vercintorix home

20th June - Cecil Cprbett best horse in the race by at least 7lbs, Cooper goes for home early and somehow gets it beat. Completely outridden by Bryan Hayes. (1.03 IR)

19th June - Devils Bride,another howler by Cooper (1.04 IR)

17TH June - Tempo Mac (1.32 IR) Left too much to do on well handicapped horse

6th June - Is love alive only needed to get over the last but Cooper riding with no confidence (1.18 IR)

The game changer crucial mistake at the last,here's a horse where the disparity between Russell and Cooper should be perspicuous to all. Have a look at this lads fluent jumping under Russell at Punchestown and compare it to its two subsequent runs under Cooper.
Report mincer11 July 3, 2015 9:17 PM BST
A big problem for Cooper is that there are some very tasty jockeys coming up behind him, namely Mullins Kennedy and to a lesser extent Dempsey.
You would have to fear for him if he doesnt buck up his ideas, as the current situation will not be tolerated for much longer.
Report dj876 July 3, 2015 9:38 PM BST
Davy Mullins and Jack Kennedy still a bit young or inexperienced for the retainer yet surely for all they're both immensely capable.

Cooper's probably fortunate in a way as there isn't many top jockeys available and Townend will surely hold out at this stage.

I get the distinct impression that WPM is very doubtful about Cooper.I wonder could a scenario arise where Ruby rides the WPM Giggy horses but this would completely undermine Cooper.

He still has every chance of turning it around as will be on the best horses in plenty of races, he seems a likeable chap and more intelligent than your average jockey but it doesn't make pretty viewing currently.
Report workrider July 3, 2015 10:40 PM BST
The guy is going through a tough time, I have no doubt he'll turn it around , after he came back from injury this year there was nobody better at presenting a horse at a fence than him, and I mean NOBODY ,he has the class that always rises to the top. People righting him off are been premature, Davy had a patch when he couldn't buy a winner,the same people turning the knife seem to have forgotten that.
Report irish_guy_13 July 3, 2015 10:40 PM BST
Dessie passing away, horror fall, lots of stuff to deal with, he's only a chap..... in a results based business it's hard to give him time, but i'm sure he'll be fine.
Report dj876 July 3, 2015 11:02 PM BST
Who has written him off ?

Is it not appropriate to discuss his current standard of riding?

Most contributions on this thread have commented on how he seems like a decent chap,so I would say the posts are objective and fair.
Report irish_guy_13 July 3, 2015 11:05 PM BST
The tone  by some is very negative.
Report mincer11 July 3, 2015 11:29 PM BST
Wonky is a good un, telling us that he was better than anybody at presenting horses at a fence, he was in his hole. Did you ever hear of Ruby Walsh ?, or Geraghty for that matter. If he lives to be 1000, Cooper wouldn't hold their coats.
Report workrider July 4, 2015 12:13 AM BST
Mayfield , I've seen the best from Ruby Barry etc over the years , but Cooper had horses jumping magnificently ,his presentation of a horse into a fence was a joy to watch . Ye seem eager to find fault with the lad, the fact he replaced your breadwinner wouldn't have anything to do with it i suppose.
Report Santry July 4, 2015 10:50 AM BST
Bryan Cooper is clearly going through a bad patch at present. I think he is a better Chase jockey than hurdles jockey. Seems to present horses better at fences than hurdles. Always seems to ride horses wide of the field in hurdle races. Is this because he fears getting injured if he falls in a bunch of horses?.
If you look at The Game Changers 3 runs over fences it tells the story of where Cooper is at present. This horse seems to really enjoy jumping fences. On his 1st run Davy Russell seemed to sense this and let him do his own thing up front and the horse was brilliant. 2nd time Cooper back on and while he let the horse at it seemed to have less trust and wanted more control and while the horse won he was less impressive. Last night seemed to be a case of a jockey with low confidence somehow getting the best horse beaten.
All jockeys go through a bad patch. Cooper has a high profile and as a result we are talking about him.Before Barry Geraghty got the Henderson job his confidence was low and he looked washed up. Things got better for Barry and hopefully will for Bryan Cooper.
The next NH season will tell us a lot about Cooper. A good season and its onwards and upwards. A bad season and he will be a journeyman.
Report The Gotchee July 4, 2015 11:39 AM BST
Form is temporary class is permanent and there is no doubt Brian Cooper will be back to his brilliant best.
What you have got to remember that he is only a lad of 21/22 ? He rides the Giggy horses for an enumerable amount of average trainers and it is not always fault when he picks the wrong one in a big race.
The idiots who come on here and praise the likes of Jack Kennedy as the next coming have the attention span of a goldfish.
Although Jack Kennedy is a good young claimer he has ridden 6 winners, five of which were favourites.
Report wildmanfromborneo July 4, 2015 12:47 PM BST
Strangely enough I have to again disagree with The Gotchee although this is based on a gut feeling.

I was thinking about backing a Gordon Elliott trained horse and found myself delighted that Kennedy was riding rather than Cooper.
Elliott must have learned plenty off Martin Pipe,he is getting yokes that cost little or nothing to win race after race,becoming a great great trainer.
Report workrider July 4, 2015 1:45 PM BST
It was only yesterday people on here where shouting the praises of one JJ Burke , now hardly a whisper.
Report mincer11 July 4, 2015 6:01 PM BST
Gobshee, Jack Kennedy has ridden 10 winners in less than 3 months riding, you absolute tool.
Form is temporary, class is permanent, what a stupid cliche that is. Typical of a clown that knows nothing.
Wonky, As for JJ Burke, it wouldnt be his time of year, but from what i see of him he is excellent, there isnt one race where you could say he lost where he should have won, Cooper has about a dozen of those this year alone.
Report The Gotchee July 4, 2015 9:15 PM BST
Mincer, Jimeen, Donegal publican, robo, etc. He has ridden 6 winners under NH rules. If you want to add in his flat stuff and pony racing  he has ridden a palpable few more. However, this thread is all about NH rides!
Obviously you suffered from a lack of oxygen at birth so that can be taken in to account with your stupid reply.
Report mincer11 July 4, 2015 9:28 PM BST
Gobshee, and thank fukk theres only one of you. He is riding with less than 2 months, and has ridden 7 winners over jumps and 4 on the flat, nobody was even mentioning pony racing.
By the way what does horses being favourites have anything to do with a jockey getting them over the line?, should he win the race twice or what ?. Brian Cooper rode a raging hot favourite last night and he threw away the race,i'd say Cooper rides more favourites than most and doesnt win on many either.
Report workrider July 4, 2015 9:29 PM BST
Laugh Lack of Oxygen at birth .
Report mincer11 July 4, 2015 9:42 PM BST
There may well be a lack of oxygen going to my brain wonky, thank god you will never have such a problem. When the oxygen does finally reach your head, it certainly will have plenty of room to float around.
In the thickness stakes, it would be  some buckle between yourself and the gobber, a hard enough one to call.
Id say you'd be alot cuter though wonks, you seem to be able to play the system very well, and the daughter would be looking after you as well out of her earnings!!
No wonder you can be lobbing hundreds into betfair whenever you like, the wildman is right, you do have an idyllic lifestyle.
Report workrider July 4, 2015 9:50 PM BST
Mayfield, delighted you see the funny side of it , you must have great craic with Davy when he tells you which ones to lay , its no wonder you can laugh at us poor fools...Devil. I have a feeling by your commentsthat a visit to the ladies of the night are part and parcel of your lifestyle , someone who knows you well told me you're so ugly  you were turned down twice when you applied for the part of ELEPHANT MAN..Laugh
Report The Gotchee July 5, 2015 8:01 AM BST
Funnily enough workrider, I was talking to a chap who lives near mincer. He told me that mincer was so ugly when he was young his mother had shutters on his pram.
Report workrider July 5, 2015 10:05 AM BST
Laugh
Report mincer11 July 5, 2015 11:28 AM BST
Ye would make a good old comedy act wonks, yerself and the gobber. It could well be the three stooges but you'd struggle to get another member to really match ye.
Report joevalue147 August 25, 2015 10:14 PM BST
Did As Der Ferbet get up?  Didn't look good. Sad
Report pa lapsy August 25, 2015 10:55 PM BST
I thought he was a goner as well but he was grand,got up when the screens were going round him.
Report Catch Me ifyoucan January 24, 2018 8:41 PM GMT
workrider • July 3, 2015 10:40 PM BST
The guy is going through a tough time, I have no doubt he'll turn it around , after he came back from injury this year there was nobody better at presenting a horse at a fence than him, and I mean NOBODY ,he has the class that always rises to the top. People righting him off are been premature, Davy had a patch when he couldn't buy a winner,the same people turning the knife seem to have forgotten that.


fyi
Report roadrunner46 April 13, 2019 6:56 PM BST
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