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dj876
04 May 15 11:16
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Date Joined: 01 Jul 10
| Topic/replies: 6,249 | Blogger: dj876's blog
Publicly criticised by Gordon Elliot after taking a wide course at Cheltenham.

WPM stalled in mid-flow in the aftermath of Don Poli,WPM "Brian thought he was never travelling but I don't know........" I believe he was thinking Brian should have made more use of him.

His interview with Tracy Piggott after Petiite Parisienne's victory was beyond strange,he was like a lost boy in contrast to a previously articulate young man.

I am a fan but can't dispute he has ridden poorly this season, he is really good friends with Robbie Mac and has had a few serious recent injuries which are some mitigation.

No one riding better than Paul Townend (including Ruby) in the UK/Ireland brimming with confidence.

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Replies: 60
By:
newapproach
When: 04 May 15 11:33
The horrific injury he had last year surely has to excuse the disappointing season he has had this year. I thought he was riding OK before cheltenham but the faster tempo and the need to make quicker decisions highlighted his lack of confidence. The interview with Piggott was no surprise consdiering the lack of confidence he has shown in the saddle last few months and was just a reflection in his interview style. The fact he had picked the wrong horse on a couple of occasions probably added to this.

It was bad form of Elliot to criticise his ride at cheltenham. He was a jockey himself and aware of the effects a fall and injury like that can have on a jockey. They are all part of the one operation and any criticisms should have been made in private.
By:
dj876
When: 04 May 15 11:46
Riding ok before Cheltenham?

Have a look at his rides at Punchestown on New Year's eve,he managed to get Petite parisienne beaten by Chattam house rules in a maiden and his ride on as de ferbet in the opener that day was as bad.

It's a cut throat business,you can't use an injury from last year to mitigate for performance this year.Connections would give you some leeway maybe 6-8 weeks.

Do you believe his position is secure?
By:
newapproach
When: 04 May 15 11:55
You can't just pick out a couple of bad rides and say that he was riding badly all year. He gave plenty of horses good rides during the winter also - dedigout on thyestes day, road to riches in the lexus was a brilliant ride etc.

His job probably isn't secure unfortunately but it should be. When they gave him the job, I presume one of the reasons he was chosen is because of his youth and the fact that he could be in the job for 15, 20 years god willing. He should be given 5 years at least.

I have no doubt he will come back to be as good as ever, he just needs his employers to show the same sort of faith in him and he should be OK.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 04 May 15 15:32
I did not hear the Elliott interview but if he criticised him publicly he should be ashamed of himself. Cooper is young and has to be given a chance. There is no substitute for experience and its ridiculous at this stage to expect him to measure up to the APs BGs and RWs in that regard. With so many horses in different stables it can be very difficult to pick the best one in a race. I have never been a big supporter of owner jockeys and with Giggi having many good horses capable of competing at grade one level I believe they would be much better off using stable jockeys. However for his age and experience I reckon BC is fine.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 04 May 15 15:32
I did not hear the Elliott interview but if he criticised him publicly he should be ashamed of himself. Cooper is young and has to be given a chance. There is no substitute for experience and its ridiculous at this stage to expect him to measure up to the APs BGs and RWs in that regard. With so many horses in different stables it can be very difficult to pick the best one in a race. I have never been a big supporter of owner jockeys and with Giggi having many good horses capable of competing at grade one level I believe they would be much better off using stable jockeys. However for his age and experience I reckon BC is fine.
By:
tocky junior
When: 04 May 15 22:32
Being blamed for not being
By:
tocky junior
When: 04 May 15 22:32
Being blamed for not being
By:
tocky junior
When: 04 May 15 22:33
positive enuf on don cosack at chil....mccoy backed up this argument when he fired himat everything
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 04 May 15 23:00
Big fan of Coops, will be one of the best in the biz and a jock i picked out from early doors.
By:
TellTheKing
When: 04 May 15 23:25
Cooper had his licence about three years before he was any use as a rider.

Most jockeys go through fallow periods where their confidence can take a hit. Cooper was the beneficiary when the pressure started to mount up on Davy and he has established himself as one of the top riders around. However, he has been very hit and miss for large parts of the season. The story goes that his bottle is questionable since coming back and it’s badly affecting his riding. It’s well known that the faith in camp isn’t strong these days and there has been some public utterances on same as mentioned above.

He would be the first jockey in history to regain his bottle so it’s up in the air. It’s easy to say that Giggy should stand by him but there’s no room for weakness at the level they play at especially with Rich Ricci’s firepower.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 04 May 15 23:47
Maybe to the naked eye not to the trained one.
By:
callitasucit
When: 05 May 15 01:24
Have to say TTK, I thought BJGs bottle was gone prior to his move to Hendos. Maybe it wasn't the bottle, but he certainly had a wobbly patch.

From a Giggy point of view, I would give BC the benefit of the doubt at the moment. The reward from same could certainly outweigh any risk involved. They would be sick to give him away, and see him rediscover his undoubted class.

I for one hope he has a cracking 2015/16 season.
By:
TellTheKing
When: 05 May 15 09:40
I think it was more a case of Geraghy's enthusiasm waning for a while after the Moscow / KK glory days Callit. He has admitted as much himself in the past. He got the mojo back in time for the Spring Festivals in '08. I think the ride where he almost stole a Grade 1 on Punjabi cemented the link with Nicky.

There's no doubt that Cooper looked an immense talent prior to this season. He had probably surpassed Townend as a chase rider. However, if he doesn't get back to where he was then Giggy may be throwing him the parachute. As evidenced previously, they aren't a very sentimental bunch. Eddie wouldn't be long throwing him under the bus particularly if he had back-up from the trainers.
By:
neill d
When: 05 May 15 10:23
If Townend doesn't at least get the option of a McManus or Gigginstown job, it will be a travesty.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 May 15 10:29
Not sure I agree with that, TTK.

I don't know what went on with Davy Russell, but in Coopers case I think they would be more likely to put their hands around his young shoulders and help him through this spell.  They are sound men and will give him time.
By:
TellTheKing
When: 05 May 15 10:47
Well Ozy if it were me I would give him a chance (say the rest of 2015) in order to get his head right and get back on form. The operation he's working for may not be so forgiving.

There's a dearth in top riding talent these days, especially now that Davy Condon is gone. Even look at yesterday where Elliot used an amateur (as fine a rider as Bon O' Neill is) on three of his. There wasn't a handful of alternative riders there. An on-form Cooper would be most welcome in Irish racing.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 May 15 11:00
In the right situation, I would be confident that they can and will be plenty forgiving.  Let's hope he responds.
By:
workrider
When: 05 May 15 16:05
Having watched Cooper most days he's been riding since he came back from injury , I'd say he's one of the best there is , his presentation of a horse at a fence is second to none imo , yes recently his form has dipped ,but not because he has lost his bottle ,btw TTK I'd side with Callit re BJG ..Cooper has still got the skills to remain at the top and hopefully things will turn right for the lad ..People forget he lost his mentor a short while ago ..If anyone wants to they can pm me and I'll explain a little more ..No gossips please...
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 May 15 17:09
Kindly keep such private and personal information private...don't be advertising for lads to PM you to 'hear all about it!'

FFS....You are worse than a washer woman!!
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 May 15 17:16
Are you sure there isn't a streak of a gawd dang QQuuuuaaar in you?
By:
workrider
When: 05 May 15 17:18
Poor Ozy , really hurting by my reference to , Gossips ....Laugh
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 May 15 17:20
Laugh
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 May 15 17:38
My sympathy is always with the jockey.

This poor fellow got a shocking injury in Cheltenham,he almost lost his leg.
He is not the same since,there is a nervousness that is getting transferred down the reins,this has been exacerbated by the dreadful injuries suffered by his pal Robbie McNamara.

Its possible he will get his old self back but unlikely.
Its also why I think they are underpaid.
By:
workrider
When: 05 May 15 17:55
PM'd you Wildmanfromborneo..
By:
dj876
When: 05 May 15 18:03
3 winners from last his 70 rides is a shocking return with the horses he's riding.

Anyone that thinks he is currently riding ok or just below par isn't watching the racing.

Anyone that believes in any professional sport that you should be allowed leeway of 5 years isn't living in the real world.

Bryan Cooper seems a very decent skin and is more intelligent than the average jockey which is probably another reason for his nervousness.

No one is doubting how good he was or criticising him from a personal point of view but it's as clear as day what's going on.
By:
TellTheKing
When: 05 May 15 18:50
I think your above post has caught succinctly the situation DJ.

No one wants to see him lose his role but if he doesn’t regain his confidence then it will have serious repercussions for his retainer. I’ll admit that I didn’t even notice it myself until the turn of the year as he had been fine at Leopardstown and beforehand (Don Cossack, Road To Riches, Clarcam, Don Poli and Valseur Lido all won big chases under him). He had appeared to come back strong from the injury. However, there has been any number of questionable rides in the past few months.

Whether it’s a delayed response from the injury (the worst of it’s type the Turf Club doctor had seen) or personal matters it’s something he will need to address and quickly.
By:
newapproach
When: 05 May 15 19:54
When you appoint a young athlete to any sporting position, It is assumed that there will be mistakes @ the beginning and lessons learned quickly as a result. 5 years is not unreasonable for any 21 year old going into such a position. No employer worth their salt would sack such a talented young athlete just because they are going through a rocky few months. Gigginstown are a shrewd operation, they let an excellent jockey go in Russell because they recognised the youth and talent of Cooper and what an asset that would be in the future. They should not be so foolish to sack him just because he is going through a couple of months of poor form. They also know bar townend, there is no jockey around that is anywhere near as good as he is at his best.

The two rides you mention at punchestown were indeed very poor. But there were a lot of good rides given throughout the winter right up until Cheltenham. All the good novice hurdlers and chasers were brought to the cotswolds having won throughout the winter and were at the heads of the markets. Cheltenham and Punchestown were indeed disasterous,but he deserves a chance to regain his confidence and show what a good rider he is.
By:
newapproach
When: 05 May 15 19:55
'no young jockey bar townend ' I meant above
By:
Racingqueen
When: 05 May 15 21:10
3 winners from last his 70 rides is a shocking return with the horses he's riding.

Anyone that thinks he is currently riding ok or just below par isn't watching the racing.



How many winners you think he should have had? I cant see many mounts that should have won. More than his fair share of dogs too like Rocky Wednesday and Fort Smith.....Don Poli ran stink but cant see how jockey can be blamed for that. Rest simply werent good enough.....Tiger Roll, Lieutenant Colonel needs a bog, Savello etc...

Elliot is a gob5hite who is only too happy to blame jocks....has criticised Andrew Lynch before and Nico de Boinvill at Chelts previews. He is a massively over rated trainer. Mullins comments didnt even hint at criticism of the jock, just that the reason for the poor run wasn't yet known.

Simple truth is whoever is advising Gigginstown on their purchases is no Harold Kirk thats for sure
By:
mitch leary
When: 05 May 15 21:58
If everyone had the money kirk has at his disposal it would be easy. We don't get to see the duds he buys cos if they're no good they don't make the track. It's a conveyor belt at Mullins.
I'm surprised at Elliott blaming jockeys. Although a decent pilot He wasn't beyond making mistakes when he was riding.
By:
mincer11
When: 05 May 15 22:25
Cooper isn't that well liked by his peers and that makes life more difficult than it should be for him.
By:
callitasucit
When: 05 May 15 23:27
I was surprised at Elliot publicly slating BC, but anyone can say anything when angry in the heat of the moment. Saying he is a massively over rated trainer is just pure bollox.

He has made his way from scratch, he had no silver spoon, and has more than earned his position in Irish racing and beyond. Is a thoroughly decent sort, and to quote more than one of his stable staff..."the best I have ever worked for".
By:
newapproach
When: 06 May 15 07:12
I was surprised at Elliott also callit and  think he is an excellent trainer but I don't think you can put it down to heat of the moment, he made the criticism after thunder zone won at cork a week later. Agree with everything you said as regards him as a trainer though.
By:
Racingqueen
When: 06 May 15 08:43
i agree he is a decent trainer. I was talking out of my hole
By:
dj876
When: 03 Jul 15 19:58
Cooper still riding devoid of any confidence even in the lower leagues of summer jumping, can only win on steering jobs (sometimes).

Terrible decision by Gigginstown to replace Russell with him. Bottle is gone,too many injuries to himself and close pals.

He was completely outridden on Disputed by Jack Kennedy last week, nailed by a short head and also by Bryan Hayes (ffs) to somehow get Cecil Corbett (bit quirky) beaten. Top jockeys will get these home and should make the difference rather than being a liability.

22nd June -Disputed beaten a sh (matched 1.03 IR). Absolutely 100% outridden by crack claimer

20th June - Cooper goes for a run up the inside,loses lengths and failes to get the frustrating Vercintorix home

20th June - Cecil Cprbett best horse in the race by at least 7lbs, Cooper goes for home early and somehow gets it beat. Completely outridden by Bryan Hayes. (1.03 IR)

19th June - Devils Bride,another howler by Cooper (1.04 IR)

17TH June - Tempo Mac (1.32 IR) Left too much to do on well handicapped horse

6th June - Is love alive only needed to get over the last but Cooper riding with no confidence (1.18 IR)

The game changer crucial mistake at the last,here's a horse where the disparity between Russell and Cooper should be perspicuous to all. Have a look at this lads fluent jumping under Russell at Punchestown and compare it to its two subsequent runs under Cooper.
By:
mincer11
When: 03 Jul 15 21:17
A big problem for Cooper is that there are some very tasty jockeys coming up behind him, namely Mullins Kennedy and to a lesser extent Dempsey.
You would have to fear for him if he doesnt buck up his ideas, as the current situation will not be tolerated for much longer.
By:
dj876
When: 03 Jul 15 21:38
Davy Mullins and Jack Kennedy still a bit young or inexperienced for the retainer yet surely for all they're both immensely capable.

Cooper's probably fortunate in a way as there isn't many top jockeys available and Townend will surely hold out at this stage.

I get the distinct impression that WPM is very doubtful about Cooper.I wonder could a scenario arise where Ruby rides the WPM Giggy horses but this would completely undermine Cooper.

He still has every chance of turning it around as will be on the best horses in plenty of races, he seems a likeable chap and more intelligent than your average jockey but it doesn't make pretty viewing currently.
By:
workrider
When: 03 Jul 15 22:40
The guy is going through a tough time, I have no doubt he'll turn it around , after he came back from injury this year there was nobody better at presenting a horse at a fence than him, and I mean NOBODY ,he has the class that always rises to the top. People righting him off are been premature, Davy had a patch when he couldn't buy a winner,the same people turning the knife seem to have forgotten that.
By:
irish_guy_13
When: 03 Jul 15 22:40
Dessie passing away, horror fall, lots of stuff to deal with, he's only a chap..... in a results based business it's hard to give him time, but i'm sure he'll be fine.
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