Powers - Cleltenham offers

This fact, or what you think will happen Irish?

FACT, on the racing post site.

Doubt it would apply to the likes of myself , on line anyway , maybe if it was in the offices it would be OK .  I backed a few antepost with them consistent with "offers" . Via telephone I learnt that I was excluded from that sort of "offer" . Just like no BOG .

Worth a look though if it works for you .

Wow, that's a serious concession. Arkle field will be small.

I think Douvan will win, but Lami Serge seems the likely benefactor if he doesn't. I will be loading up the car with as many people as I can find in two weeks!!

Very good concession. Cheltenham really is a punters paradise as far as bookies offers are concerned. I would be pretty certain, someone will go evens on UDS and quite confident Faugheen will be 2s at some stage early Tuesday morning. This offer is a real belter to get the ball rolling in the bookie war.

Plenty of shops about Kelly. If you wanted a couple of grand on a yoke in the Supreme, it wouldn't take long to get on. And a 33% chance of money back. Or 55% in Arkle. Worth the petrol money imo.

PADDY POWER have taken their traditional Cheltenham Festival day one offer even further this year by offering money back on all losing bets if either short-priced favourites Douvan or Un De Sceaux win their respective races.

Douvan is currently the firm's 7-4 favourite for the opening Sky Bet Supreme Novices' Hurdle, while stablemate Un De Sceaux is 4-7 for the Racing Post-sponsored Arkle. The firm are offering money back as a free bet on all bets up to £50/€50 per customer per race.

Paddy Power said: "The Tuesday of the festival is already the scariest day for us with Willie-mageddon on the cards and these unbelievable offers just make it a little bit worse."

Ruby Walsh, rider of both hotpots said: "They're both rock solid and two of my best for the week, maybe they're trying to put people off backing but I wouldn't put you off, and if I was a bookie there's not a sniff I'd be taking them on like this. Paddy must hate money - I hope he's cleaned out!"

Should either or both of the offers come in, it will complete a bookie-bashing four-in-a-row. Last year Paddy Power refunded losing bets on the second, third and fourth placed horses in the Supreme Novices' Hurdle, in 2013 they offered money back all losers if Hurricane Fly won the Champion Hurdle and in 2012 offered the same when Sprinter Sacre won the Arkle.

Opening post isn't accurate.

Major difference between money back and a free bet (with no stake included).

Ruby giving the usual spiel,I wonder what WPM thinks of the relationship,treats it a p1sstake I presume.

What has Ruby left 2/3 years at the top?There won't be many put up with his smart alec comments then. He's tolerated by many while they use him for the one thing he's exceptional at. He doesn't seem to see the bigger picture or fails to recognise his limitations out of the saddle.

If he does as intimated start training flat horses,he will be odds on to bankrupt himself and a couple of more. His previous financial investments were hardly well timed or judged.

Just heard it 'free bet' aright. Big difference.

Sorry about that, did not read it properly but still decent (not as good as other years) if you fancy something outside the fav's.

Guaranteed loads of people will fall for the money back bit only to find out its a free bet, major difference, Ruby getting the cash in from anywhere

PP advertise like this purposely,in their shops they will have up Money Refunded and then in the bottom corner in tiny writing as a free bet. There shouldn't be any room for ambiguity and it should be clearly stated that stake isn't included.

The industry is a disgrace really-no regulation. They feign interest in looking out for problem gamblers yet simultaneously open until now 9 0' clock where the only thing people are betting on are greyhound bags (150% O/R),US racing and virtuals (ie open for problem gamblers only)

Where was this advertised ?  I looked up their site , but no mention of it ( unless of course I am filtered out as a "mark" ) . If it applies in the shops there could be a bit of travelling involved !  Free bet money back is OK if you know what you are doing .

They will have to widen the doors.

How will we figure out the implications of money back as a free bet Kelly,any advice for us mere mortals?

money back as a free bet is the scam.if u have 50 on a loser on a yoke in uds race.uds wins.u get a free 50 bet.u back an even money shot.it wins.u get 50   square one.a pure con.free publicity for pp.and lessens their liability on the wpm tsunami..  well thought out.ruby has them well advised.

ALL the top bookies do this money back as free bet  in their specials, nothing new here. Kelly THE RACING POST has this on there front page[go to R.P SITE.

Paddy Power said: "The Tuesday of the festival is already the scariest day for us with Willie-mageddon on the cards and these unbelievable offers just make it a little bit worse."

Can anyone confirm if the offer will be available in shops?

Its still a great offer.

Ruby Walsh future will be in broadcasting,he is the best analyst there is.

How apt, a forumite posts named send in the clowns then Wildman posts straight after. If you fancy taking on the fav in the opener surely it is worth having some of your bet on with PP

you dont  ever get your 50 back wmf.you get to use it to bet with...if you use it to back a winner you get winnings without your 50 back..big diff than money back

Presumably you bet on other things.

All your other bets are hardly going to be winners.

Its not nearly as good as money back but the Arkle is a small field.

its well thought out by pp

But it is so early in the festival it is as good as money back.

It would be great if racing personalities like Ruby Walsh would spend a little time on the media drawing attention to the ever-increasing gambling addiction problem in this country.

Why ?

Its hardly his business.

Agree with Kavvie that it is well thought out by them,they surely won't be going highest on the two hotpots and an absolute beano for them if they are beat,seem to be trying to get money on the field to me.
Still not a bad offer if you were against the two,the non stake return won,t be that bad if your free bet is half decent odds ie say 5/1

I was thinking of taking myself along to one or days of the festival as have never been, ticket prices are serious if i was to bring herself but also the absolute hassle is a major put off, thinking of heading to a meet mates in London for a few jars and and a few bets.

My comment is wishful, wildman, but personalities like Ruby have great influence with the betting public; that's why he does what he does for PP. I wasn't criticising him.

If Mullins "fab four" win on the 1st day how far would PPs shares go down? Suppose if results were favourable for the rest of the meeting it would be too bad,no knowledge really on this but maybe 5%?.That bet will be so popular.
Think that offer is very clever from them though they won't want the 2nd favs, they will certainly be bricking it if WPM has 3 up going into the mares.

Ambiguity or scams aside,anyone that fancies Lami Serge or Jollyallan say and backs them elsewhere should be deposited out on Lambay Island for 6 months to have a little chat with themselves...

pa, it's all about the long-term calculation for PP. They wont lose out on these offers.

Yes Reb,it seems here to me they are trying to make some book out of on the face of it. an impossible one.
Know you are passionate about gambling addiction,think a high proportion of that nowadays is on the electronic side,ie arcade,slots etc. Not a bad idea of a thread if facts concerning how these operate on returns,compulsion and so on work,the bookies are screaming to get a person on them.

What do people expect to get when they have a bet...Spoils are offering a trip to New York for Patricks Day for everyone who backs a loser in the Supreme but you have to be available to go and Ladcrokes are giving a free trip to Aintree for the Friday of the festival and an evening out with the "minger" of your choice.I wonder how many of ye remember Kilmartins or Fines from years gone by.The only thing on offer was TB or some guy having a slash up against your leg.

Can anybody actually clarify what a free bet means.If you have the free bet on an even money winner do you get back €100 (which I would have thought) or €50 as seems to be implied here?

It is interesting that nobody on the thread has actually given much thought as to the best way to get money from it.

Wait until its NRNB.
Possibly wait until 5 day decs to utilise your funds to the best.No point in having funds tied up in non runners/unlikely runners.
As the refund applies to the win part of each way bets concentrate most of your funds on the Arkle as if you horse is placed you get the place part and the refund of the win.The Arkle at 1/4 the odds has a lovely shape anyway.
Three or four win only against the field might be the way to play the Supreme Novices.
Take care with Powers prices as they may well keep them tight.
Don't forget day of the race with guaranteed prices could be a big help.

Plenty of legwork and a few accomplices looks the order of the day!

Hopefully they will lose plenty in the short term Reb. The Arkle might not have even 8 runners ,so a e/way bet before the final Decs might be in order on what you fancy.

tolmi you get your  original 50 back if your "free" bet is on an ev money shot and it wins.as pa says the bigger priced winner you back the less affect it has on your take out.ie if you hit a 12/1 winner with it you will in effect get 11/1

@Tolmi, i might be a bit of a thicko but the conditions doesn't say either online or shops for definite,not sure how a free bet can be credited in a shop,i suppose on production of losing slip behind the counter,it doesn't seem to be feasible for staff to be able to have the power for that though seldom use a shop not been in the situation with a free bet before.
I'd be cautious with a shop til clarified on what i read of conditions there.

I wasn't implying you were pa!

As for the offer it turns out stake is not refundable with winnings per the conditions on their website.I think money back is false advertising in this instance.

it is false advertising.money back it sure aint.its the use of 50 to bet.(provided douvain or uds win)  im uneasy with ruby working for them etc whats going on.strange..

I know you weren't Tolmi,that was at myself as i don't know the workings nowadays of a betting shop,ie whether a shop can credit you a free bet,i tend to doubt that which led me it may be online only and you would be walking into it in more ways than one.Sure there was a thread a while back concerning them where it was a bit ambiguous as well.
Don't mean to muddy the waters but would certainly clarify that.

Nice way of hooking a few students on the beer for the week, certainly. I've seen others mention here that they are at saturation point in Ireland & the UK. If the number of likes they have on FB is reflective of every one of those people having an online account, than whatever fears Reb has are well-grounded.

There might be a sportsman/ role model issue with Ruby if it were any other sport. Racing/betting are so intrinsically linked that his gallery doesn't care, and we all know the man himself doesn't.

I remember him being downright rude to Nick luck on the morning line about 5 years ago, worst case I' seen of its kind. I don't watch that show but I gather he has been in similar form there, recently.

trying to break into flat racing in Ireland is a mugs game, maybe even for someone with Ruby's profile, plenty will have a wry smile to themselves if it goes tits up, including myself probably, for all he's the best there will ever be.

dj , re "using"the free bet , depends on your betting preferences .  If I have a free bet I am looking for a loser at a good price .  So if I have a 50 free bet I will probably back a horse at say 12/1 , lay back 46 at 12/1 ( or lower preferably) keeping 48 up my sleeve if it wins .  Either way there is 46 "profit" , and the bigger the price the horse you back the more margin there is .

No point backing an even money shot with your 50 unless you are a punter ( and it wins) . I prefer guaranteed money back as near to 50 as possible .

I say it is impossible because if it were possible then Willie Mullins would be doing it.

Also, Ruby would be underestimating the psychological effect of having to build up from the middle of the pack to where the top lads are having been at the top of his original career basically the whole way through.

How many lads have two great careers?

That is before even getting to the personality issues.

kelly im sorry but unless you do it ir you wont be getting to lay a 12/1 shot at 12/1 on here.more likely at least 14/1 possibly 16/1 and commission after..

I don't think a career in broadcasting would be sufficient to satisfy Ruby's ego,might earn 150 k per year. A broadcasting career is obviously much more sought after in Football where they can earn 50/60 k per week with Sky.

I am not sure about the brilliance of his analysis either if the rumours about Ted jnr are accurate.

When he was injured he did some analysis for RTE he seemed a natural.

His in running comments were stunningly accurate.

Young Ted was always going to be hard to place.

What are the rumours lads or are they that bad that even a vague outline would lead to trouble?

TODAY in PP faugheen and King Palace to win 14/1 ,small value if you fancy both

Kavvie , can be done with a bit of vigilance and an educated guess re market moves . In running would be the last resort for me . Occasionally too you can lay at less than you back it , but would be trickier in circumstances associated with the PP offer as they will tighten down their prices on "offer" races .

Whatever way you look at it , its a freebie and only a greedy person would be unlikely to benefit from the offer and subsequent activity .

Checked it out on RP site the offer , and it appears to be in the shops as well as on line , so maybe its worth a bit of travel .

What happens if Un De sceaux does not run ?  Ante post presumably would be quids in .

after nrnb itl be r4 i presume?  as you say if your backing anything else except the two favs you gotta go to pp..and to lessen the effect of the not moeny back,your better off back an outsider in one of the handicaps..

Take out U,D.S. it must be one of the poorest Arkles in years,.. only a fall can stop U.d.S.

One of the best aspects of the PP offer is that you have 7 days grace with your free bet as I read it .

What happens with ante post bets with pp if Douvan or UDS dont run? Is it just tough luck if you lose? Assuming thats the case you're as well off to wait for the overnights

Def better to wait. The price war on the day, means most will be at least as big if not bigger. Ideal scenario for those taking advantage of the offer, is if Diuvan and UDS are hammered into on the day. I would however expect them both to drift.

Money back as a free bet is a con. Your money is gone and you have to back a even money winner to get it back.

The advertising standards board or whoever is in charge should certainly not allow this to be carried in papers etc unless it is very clearly stated that the money is back as a free bet. It is a complete con otherwise.

Already we are seeing it being retweeted and discussed as cash back, which works very well for Powers.

In addition you are taking the ante post risk as unlike many firms they are not non runner no bet and if your horse does not run, it is a loser no matter what happens Douvan and Un De Sceaux.

I think laddies are giving daily specials on Cheltenham [for 15mins only] today between 2.10 and 2.25  Silviniaco Conti  6/1 for the gold cup

In all fairness.....credit where its due....its a good offer .....theres no two ways about it.....
There is no need to be caught by non runners as you can afford to wait until they go non runner no bet....if you wait until monday lunchtime you can avail of Best Odds Guaranteed....
For casual punters its a cracking incentive and for bigger players it will be some way manageable also....

That pretty much sums up the offer Paulie,I rather have it then not, ..The ladbrokes offer is for e25 only, if you know the ladbrokes staff you can asked them what time the offer is;they can found out on the Monitor.

It's factually wrong and the advertising is misleading, which is the issue I would have.

To be fair though, I admit that the offers for the last number of years would have me and people for me going to upwards of a dozen shops to take advantage of the offers and doing the same shops again if there are different staff on. It paid off last year but went nowhere the year before when Grandouet fell.

It will appeal to the general punter and will probably attract many new accounts, but it should be stated what it is, or at least appear somewhere on the face of the promotion rather than hidden in T&Cs

I was in a shop earlier striking a golf bet, and to be fair when they were plugging the offer from the voice over, he did mention very clearly and definitively that it was a free bet concession.

how does free bet work in shops? can u just have £50 anything?

Think you can , sendin . That is provided they will lay you .  If you want 50 on a 20/1 shot I will nearly guarantee you will be offered most of it at SP .  The offer extends for 7 days though , so anyone "travelling around "shops would be advised to make their stakes as small as practical in case the free bet option comes up .  Most shops for instance would lay you a tenner at 20/1 whereas 50 would require reference and inevitable restructuring of the bet .

Nearer the day might be the best option for reasons already posted by several .

PP shops I bet in Kelly, 4 out of 5 of them the staff don't give a toss and/or are too thick to notice what you're doing. I have never been not allowed have 50 on a 20-1 shot in them 4. They wont be frequent visits, but there are very few occasions where the bet has had to be rang in.

PP online is a joke. Its a waste of time continuing to open different accounts. But to be fair, in shops, they take a bet. Though their pricing is getting even less competitive.

Boyles must run up a hell of a phone bill.....they nearly have to make a call just to let you into the feckin shop!!

callit , looks like you are in a good place re getting on , wouldn't work that way up here . Depends largely on staff here , most are clued in , possibly because they came from takeover of local bookie where they were circumspect re laying .

We can only play the cards the way we are dealt them !

Was in laddies today at 2.20 THEY WHERE OFFERING Faugheen at 2/1 for the C/HURDLE , ONLY FOR A SHORT TIME. Yesterday  Silviniaco Conti  6/1 for the gold cup, ..seems Lads are  putting up daily specials if any one is interested[ but only for 15mins or so.

Most of their offers are only to E25 though,if you ran like feck you might get another E25 on or a heart attack.

I got on e50 Pa i had a friend in the shop who only bets football.

the two pp shops in ennis and the one in shannon are good for taking a bet.the managers in both ennis shops are very sound and friendly.they are high turnover shops though and prob have free rein to take bigger bets than smaller shops id say.its frustrating when you want a lumpy bet and try on line only to get it cut to near nothing.go into one of the shops 5 min later and get on without a problem.i suppose pp is a successful business so they must know what they are doing.?

I am surprised they can read your dockets kavvie.

i try to disguise my writing clown!!