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What a disaster.
Finally Munster produce a halfback/midfield playmaker who you would pay to watch, who can marry a solid kicking and defensive game with a running game with natural wit and imagination. And they f**k it up by preferring Ian Keatley, who is not fit to lace JJ's boots.
Northampton's gain is Munster and Ireland's loss.
P.S. I wouldn't normally bother with this rugby discussion on here, but when reading the Indo and Irish Times online I am always struck by the fact that the rugby articles are typically the 'most read'. Which surprises me. Perhaps people are more interested in rugby than I thought.
Finally Munster produce a halfback/midfield playmaker who you would pay to watch, who can marry a solid kicking and defensive game with a running game with natural wit and imagination. And they f**k it up by preferring Ian Keatley, who is not fit to lace JJ's boots.
Northampton's gain is Munster and Ireland's loss.
P.S. I wouldn't normally bother with this rugby discussion on here, but when reading the Indo and Irish Times online I am always struck by the fact that the rugby articles are typically the 'most read'. Which surprises me. Perhaps people are more interested in rugby than I thought.
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You'd like to think he would be back (Don't want another Geordan Murphy situation). There is no way in with Ireland in the near future so I'd say that effected his decision. Hopefully he gets game time at Fly-half there but Meyler looks pretty entrenched to me.
Meant to be signing some one-paced Aussie utility back to replace him (trying to recreate Halstead). Munster need two fly-halfs anyway so I really don't this. Stadium debt is killing Munster.
I like Keats as a player so I hope the crowd don't turn on him.
Top 3 in his age group, Munster don't get these. Madness that Mulian... (sic) is on 300k and JJ is leaving.
Meant to be signing some one-paced Aussie utility back to replace him (trying to recreate Halstead). Munster need two fly-halfs anyway so I really don't this. Stadium debt is killing Munster.
I like Keats as a player so I hope the crowd don't turn on him.
Top 3 in his age group, Munster don't get these. Madness that Mulian... (sic) is on 300k and JJ is leaving.
Geordan Murphy situation in the sense that the fans are likely to take to him over there and he might be reluctant to come out of it. Salary cap is on the way out I'd say despite what the players are saying.
Why is there no way in with Ireland in the near future? I would say he is right on the brink...if only Munster would pick him.
Sexton has concussion issues, Jackson going backwards and Madigan not entirely convincing, the odd spark of brilliance aside.
Sexton has concussion issues, Jackson going backwards and Madigan not entirely convincing, the odd spark of brilliance aside.
Maybe at centre, but I wouldn't think he has the size for that internationally. I'd be astounded if either Sexton or Madigan doesn't start at the World Cup and in the next two Six Nations.
Isn't Keatley being picked in Irish A teams ahead of him. If Schmidt wanted him, wouldn't he have given the directive to put him in at Munster.
Schmidt is a great coach, but he is extremely pragmatic. If you are going to be any way maverick, you'd better be exceptional, I presume that is why he has reportedly been harsh on Zebo (despite starting the last 5) and will soon drop him. I don't think he'd trust a fella like Hanrahan in the pivotal position until he gets the game time, he'll be watched though I'm sure.
Isn't Keatley being picked in Irish A teams ahead of him. If Schmidt wanted him, wouldn't he have given the directive to put him in at Munster.
Schmidt is a great coach, but he is extremely pragmatic. If you are going to be any way maverick, you'd better be exceptional, I presume that is why he has reportedly been harsh on Zebo (despite starting the last 5) and will soon drop him. I don't think he'd trust a fella like Hanrahan in the pivotal position until he gets the game time, he'll be watched though I'm sure.
That's the issue , Neill, a decidely average player, Ian Keatley, who excels in no aspect of the game, is getting the game time that Hanrahan needs.
As regards Schmidt not trusting mavericks, I agree, but Madigan is twice the maverick Hanrahan is, yet you see him getting the nod. Not to mention JJ's kickig from hand is streets ahead of Madigans.
This boils down to Foley's negative, old fashioned basic approach; he doesnt' want to trust a player with the ability to play.
As regards Schmidt not trusting mavericks, I agree, but Madigan is twice the maverick Hanrahan is, yet you see him getting the nod. Not to mention JJ's kickig from hand is streets ahead of Madigans.
This boils down to Foley's negative, old fashioned basic approach; he doesnt' want to trust a player with the ability to play.
It is a massive cluster**** no doubt.
Keatley is very similar to a younger O'Gara and will improve a bit yet but no doubting Hanrahan has way more innate talent and PACE!!
Madigan is the maverick he knows would be my best explanation, more proven as well and older. I would have seen Hanrahan making the break Mads has at around the same time in his career.
One thing, if Foley gives Hanrahan a run at 10 now, he really deserves a slap. He has to stand by Keatley now.
Keatley is very similar to a younger O'Gara and will improve a bit yet but no doubting Hanrahan has way more innate talent and PACE!!
Madigan is the maverick he knows would be my best explanation, more proven as well and older. I would have seen Hanrahan making the break Mads has at around the same time in his career.
One thing, if Foley gives Hanrahan a run at 10 now, he really deserves a slap. He has to stand by Keatley now.
Similar to O'Gara in that he passes and kicks quiet nicely but is a little pedestrian.
Madigans kicking out of hand is an issue for sure. He is never going to contest Sexton on that score, in fact, it is hard for anyone to contest Sexton on anything, maybe clutch goal-kicking situations.
Madigans kicking out of hand is an issue for sure. He is never going to contest Sexton on that score, in fact, it is hard for anyone to contest Sexton on anything, maybe clutch goal-kicking situations.
Hanrahan is one of the better players in the Munster squad , can change a game occasionally , but difficult in these days of blanket defence .
In the old days , essentially the forwards played the forwards , the backs the backs . So the tackling match ups were fairly even . Nowadays the skilful out half / centre/winger is likely to find a 20 stoner bearing down on him regularly , up and unders have become the fashion, great territory for those on the field wanting to hurt / intimidate players with more skill than they have themselves .
Concussion has become a big subject of late , cant say I am surprised . Coaches have also become more "professional " , short hand for identifying and nullifying opposition danger men . The situation is not going to get any better given current rules / interpretation , anyone who thinks there is a magic wand about is seriously deluded .
Have few views myself on Hanrahan , playing for Munster at present is not the same as it was in the "glory "days ( which may not return despite heroic efforts from some players and most supporters ) . These days you need a Toulon type pack and a Johnny Wilkinson metronome kicker to flourish , skilful players like Hanrahan have become marginalised in the "modern " game .
Occasionally there is a good open game full of skill , but increasingly it is the power game which triumphs , and playing for penalties has become the winning mantra .
And the breakfast food / prescribed "medication" is a story waiting to happen . Statistics seldom lie when viewed objectively and properly .
I like rugby , always have , it was always suited to the Irish as a sport , and we have played our part in putting it on a wider world stage . The authorites need to restore the game though to a level where "ordinary sized" players can still walk onto a field with something to contribute and a bit of hope for a good game . I am not sure that we in Ireland have the collective will to turn our rugby players into juggernauts as needed in the modern winning game ( at top level anyway , "club " rugby may still survive hopefully for those of normal physique ) .
In the old days , essentially the forwards played the forwards , the backs the backs . So the tackling match ups were fairly even . Nowadays the skilful out half / centre/winger is likely to find a 20 stoner bearing down on him regularly , up and unders have become the fashion, great territory for those on the field wanting to hurt / intimidate players with more skill than they have themselves .
Concussion has become a big subject of late , cant say I am surprised . Coaches have also become more "professional " , short hand for identifying and nullifying opposition danger men . The situation is not going to get any better given current rules / interpretation , anyone who thinks there is a magic wand about is seriously deluded .
Have few views myself on Hanrahan , playing for Munster at present is not the same as it was in the "glory "days ( which may not return despite heroic efforts from some players and most supporters ) . These days you need a Toulon type pack and a Johnny Wilkinson metronome kicker to flourish , skilful players like Hanrahan have become marginalised in the "modern " game .
Occasionally there is a good open game full of skill , but increasingly it is the power game which triumphs , and playing for penalties has become the winning mantra .
And the breakfast food / prescribed "medication" is a story waiting to happen . Statistics seldom lie when viewed objectively and properly .
I like rugby , always have , it was always suited to the Irish as a sport , and we have played our part in putting it on a wider world stage . The authorites need to restore the game though to a level where "ordinary sized" players can still walk onto a field with something to contribute and a bit of hope for a good game . I am not sure that we in Ireland have the collective will to turn our rugby players into juggernauts as needed in the modern winning game ( at top level anyway , "club " rugby may still survive hopefully for those of normal physique ) .
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/youve-got-to-admire-his-balls-ronan-ogara-on-jj-hanrahans-northampton-move-30893291.html
Hoi O'Gara, get off my **** cloud!!
Hoi O'Gara, get off my **** cloud!!
Statistics seldom lie when viewed objectively and properly
tell us more about these stats.
tell us more about these stats.
what size would describe Eoin Reddan as, or Madigan or BOD for that matter...these are not big men!
skilful players like Hanrahan have become marginalised in the "modern " game
Hanrahan grew up in Castleisand and has a kickig game to match any 10. you think they ever pass the ball in Casteliland?
Hanrahan grew up in Castleisand and has a kickig game to match any 10. you think they ever pass the ball in Casteliland?
And why do you have to bring everything back to the old days?
actually, upon reflection, please don't bother to respond to any of the above points, kelly, thanks.
Injury stats , OZ , but you know that .
Did not see BOD interviews / articles recently , but according to reportage he expressed himself as somewhat relieved to have "escaped" in decent shape . And thats our best player of the last 20 years probably .
There is always a place for a small will of the wisp player around the base of the scrum where quick hands play a part , but scrum halves essentially are there to get the ball as far away from the forwards and as quickly as possible , otherwise the inevitable mauls and rucks ensue . Stringer , Reddan , Marshall are smallish when viewed alongside team mates . Murray is good in that he is intelligent and big for a scrum half , and can draw a bit of attention from Sexton who is always going to be targetted by the opposition , inevitable result of Sexton being very good .
Ireland's best players in the professional era to date have all spent lengthy times on the sideline through injury , Ferriss had to pack it in , sport should not always be so combative ( except boxing which belongs in a different category altogether ) . The authorities will eventually have to "soften up " the hits or otherwise few self respecting parents will not encourage their children to concentrate on the sport . Once upon a time gladiators were the sports stars , those that lived anyway . Things have moved on though .
Did not see BOD interviews / articles recently , but according to reportage he expressed himself as somewhat relieved to have "escaped" in decent shape . And thats our best player of the last 20 years probably .
There is always a place for a small will of the wisp player around the base of the scrum where quick hands play a part , but scrum halves essentially are there to get the ball as far away from the forwards and as quickly as possible , otherwise the inevitable mauls and rucks ensue . Stringer , Reddan , Marshall are smallish when viewed alongside team mates . Murray is good in that he is intelligent and big for a scrum half , and can draw a bit of attention from Sexton who is always going to be targetted by the opposition , inevitable result of Sexton being very good .
Ireland's best players in the professional era to date have all spent lengthy times on the sideline through injury , Ferriss had to pack it in , sport should not always be so combative ( except boxing which belongs in a different category altogether ) . The authorities will eventually have to "soften up " the hits or otherwise few self respecting parents will not encourage their children to concentrate on the sport . Once upon a time gladiators were the sports stars , those that lived anyway . Things have moved on though .
21.09 post Ozy leaves me scratching my head . Maybe the question is what is a good Kerry lad doing playing a foreign game ( not my view , but there are those who might opine that ) .
The reason I refer to the old days Ozy is that I think the players then enjoyed the pure rugby game more than the current set of players enjoy their sport . Some may say that is the inevitable result of professionalism , where winning is paramount and the sport secondary . The same comment applies to most sports nowadays , increasingly the pure sporting enjoyment of a game is way down the list compared to a "good result " , "winning ugly" etc .
Even cricket , that most gentlemanly of games through the last century plus , is having to deal with rumbustious behaviour , sledging , and attempted intimidation via fast bowling other than at the stumps . Again the authorities there need to take a look at their game , and return it to a vitually exclusive game of skill which it was largely pre bodyline . Larwood was the best bowler in the world then , took great delight in skittling the stumps at which he led all the statistics , but he was ordered ( by a gentleman , Larwood being a paid "player" ) to bowl body line to thwart the best batsman there ever was ( Bradman ) .
The reason I refer to the old days Ozy is that I think the players then enjoyed the pure rugby game more than the current set of players enjoy their sport . Some may say that is the inevitable result of professionalism , where winning is paramount and the sport secondary . The same comment applies to most sports nowadays , increasingly the pure sporting enjoyment of a game is way down the list compared to a "good result " , "winning ugly" etc .
Even cricket , that most gentlemanly of games through the last century plus , is having to deal with rumbustious behaviour , sledging , and attempted intimidation via fast bowling other than at the stumps . Again the authorities there need to take a look at their game , and return it to a vitually exclusive game of skill which it was largely pre bodyline . Larwood was the best bowler in the world then , took great delight in skittling the stumps at which he led all the statistics , but he was ordered ( by a gentleman , Larwood being a paid "player" ) to bowl body line to thwart the best batsman there ever was ( Bradman ) .
Irish Rugby is humped - if it wasn't for Schmidt and to a lesser extent Pat Lam there would be F all happening in the Ireland scene and god forbid if Schmidt leaves after the WC - cue the tumbleweed
Only ranked 3 in the world!
Incredible talent coming through like Jack Conan, Gary Ringrose etc etc etc. World class talent like Cian Healy and SOB coming back from injury
If you think we are humped at the moment, you haven't been around Irish rugby long.
Incredible talent coming through like Jack Conan, Gary Ringrose etc etc etc. World class talent like Cian Healy and SOB coming back from injury
If you think we are humped at the moment, you haven't been around Irish rugby long.
Ireland are outperforming the sum of the individual provinces which is a traditional barometer for Irish rugby in recent times . The provinces , outside of Connacht who have improved have regressed this year in particular , one glance at the Euro Champs outright market will verify that . Schmidt is very good , and has the respect of all as far as I know .
Ulster have become a side incapable of avoiding basic mistakes , opponents know how to win penalties against them , and even great players like Pienaar are looking ordinary .
Leinster are hit or miss recently , suspect that some of their marquee players dont push to 100% every match , which did not happen often when BOD was around . Plus injuries .
Munster just have not been able to sustain their historically high level of out performing the sum of their parts , part of which was supporter driven , fair play to them .
Ulster have become a side incapable of avoiding basic mistakes , opponents know how to win penalties against them , and even great players like Pienaar are looking ordinary .
Leinster are hit or miss recently , suspect that some of their marquee players dont push to 100% every match , which did not happen often when BOD was around . Plus injuries .
Munster just have not been able to sustain their historically high level of out performing the sum of their parts , part of which was supporter driven , fair play to them .
i cant understand why England are 5.6 to win the World cup and Ireland are 11/1, we surely are there equal, im told by a rugby expert that Ireland have every chance with Schmidt in charge.i will have a humble e20 on ireland at 11/1 on his advice.
England have a pedigree at RWC's, we don't. They are at home, and if they can beat Australia and Wales will avoid SA and AB's until a final on their home patch. Our draw is also peachy, mind you.
The main difference between England and us, is raw power, particularly at scrum time. This is huge in cup rugby, a dominant scrum can milk penalties and keep the scoreboard turning. They also have more powerful runners in midfield and incredible squad depth.
Marty Moore is arguably the most important player in Irish rugby. his return from injury (this week?) and his development over the forthcoming 6 nations will be key to how far we can go in the RWC.
The main difference between England and us, is raw power, particularly at scrum time. This is huge in cup rugby, a dominant scrum can milk penalties and keep the scoreboard turning. They also have more powerful runners in midfield and incredible squad depth.
Marty Moore is arguably the most important player in Irish rugby. his return from injury (this week?) and his development over the forthcoming 6 nations will be key to how far we can go in the RWC.
Its interesting to note Ozy that the SIX NATIONS WINNER BETTING ODDS we are amost equal in the betting with England. I agree with you about our pedigree at RWC's but ireland wont be lacking for support [i belive tickets are hard to come by] but 11/1 is a very good bet .
If you want to play that 11/1, play it each way. A final is achievable, with a tail wind and a whole lot of luck.
England come to us in the 6 Nations.
England come to us in the 6 Nations.
Have not looked at the outright RWC market , but I think 11/1 is a decent price for Ireland , if only to lay back . I do not think for more than a moment that Ireland can win the RWC , but they can / will qualify for knockout stages , at which stage they shoud be less than 11/1 , and tradeable .
I fail to see how some on here do not see the possibilities afforded by Betfair vis a vis backing "improvers" odds wise and then laying back . Applies to horses , and most other sports , and in running on some sports is great ( cricket for instance where the delay between balls allows proper adjustment odds wise usually -- plus 30 million plus markets turnover wise , no problem with liquidity ). And structured stops to play . 17 million to date turnover on Aussies vs India , on at moment , and still 2 days to go . Probable draw , always was when the pitch declared itself flat . Aussies can bat and bowl , Indians can bat , but bowling weak so Aussies will always get a big score , which they did .
I fail to see how some on here do not see the possibilities afforded by Betfair vis a vis backing "improvers" odds wise and then laying back . Applies to horses , and most other sports , and in running on some sports is great ( cricket for instance where the delay between balls allows proper adjustment odds wise usually -- plus 30 million plus markets turnover wise , no problem with liquidity ). And structured stops to play . 17 million to date turnover on Aussies vs India , on at moment , and still 2 days to go . Probable draw , always was when the pitch declared itself flat . Aussies can bat and bowl , Indians can bat , but bowling weak so Aussies will always get a big score , which they did .
oxy....The main difference between England and us, is raw power, particularly at scrum time. This is huge in cup rugby, a dominant scrum can milk penalties and keep the scoreboard turning. They also have more powerful runners in midfield and incredible squad depth...... ..Does this England Advantage not count when playing away?.. i belive that we can beat England home or away Oxy ;my point is we are all most 3times the price to win the world cup.We are well worth a bet at the odds .
Wont lay me Frank , one of the first to close my account . And no shops here to by pass their scrutiny . Must suss it out before Six Nations , that might change odds . Thanks .
I fail to see how some on here do not see the possibilities afforded by Betfair vis a vis backing "improvers" odds wise and then laying back
More home spun that is too painfully obvious to bother committing to print.
Honestly I think Kelly thinks he invented the wheel.
More home spun that is too painfully obvious to bother committing to print.
Honestly I think Kelly thinks he invented the wheel.
Frank, home advantage is typically worth half a point in rugby (betting wise).
The fact that England have several home games in the world cup accumulates this advantage so it explains some of the discrepancy in odds.
My tip for the World Cup is England at 4/1 btw. I think they have an unbelieveable squad to go and play cup rugby with on their own patch. They are a little behind in development and establishing their first chance threequarters and have yet to accumulate the results against the SH that likely RWC winners ideally should, but it feels like a tsunami coming to me, when all fit and they click.
The fact that England have several home games in the world cup accumulates this advantage so it explains some of the discrepancy in odds.
My tip for the World Cup is England at 4/1 btw. I think they have an unbelieveable squad to go and play cup rugby with on their own patch. They are a little behind in development and establishing their first chance threequarters and have yet to accumulate the results against the SH that likely RWC winners ideally should, but it feels like a tsunami coming to me, when all fit and they click.
Ozy , sometimes the most obvious modus operandi does not suggest itself to people . People love to "blow" ( inadvertently maybe) about their tips or winners , the bigger the odds the bigger they feel . The bookies still manage to turn up profits though , which suggests that on average punters are not all shrewd .
Some of the shrewdest judges on here seldom post selections or tips . I suspect part of the reason for that is a desire not to acquaint some of the better known plonkers on here of their viewpoint .
Some of the shrewdest judges on here seldom post selections or tips . I suspect part of the reason for that is a desire not to acquaint some of the better known plonkers on here of their viewpoint .
The thing is Kelly, when you discuss what you do on here with Gents around you at home, men of your own generation, no doubt they look at you wide-eyed. To them terms like arbing and trading are akin to rocket science.
Your audience here is younger and entirely au fait with what you do; it's about as sexy or complicated as window cleaning. I think sometimes you forget which audience you are addressing because you are a master of revealing the painfully obvious as some sort of Golden Goose.
Your audience here is younger and entirely au fait with what you do; it's about as sexy or complicated as window cleaning. I think sometimes you forget which audience you are addressing because you are a master of revealing the painfully obvious as some sort of Golden Goose.
I think is fair to say that Kelly is A Well Respected Man by most of foremites on here Ozy, young and old alike
So what? Are you disputing any specific points that I have made.
Keanu Reeves is a respected Hollywood actor apparently. That doesn't stop me pointing out how crap he is in Point Break.
Keanu Reeves is a respected Hollywood actor apparently. That doesn't stop me pointing out how crap he is in Point Break.
I think people seriously need to " back up the truck " when it comes to JJ Hanrahan ..... It s common knowledge in rugby circles the reason Foley can t pick him at 10 is he cannot control a game ( which again was quite clearly evident when Munster played Glasgow before christmas) and he can t play him at 12 because his defence is dreadful ( again which was quite clear to be seen as Bundi Aki was running through him for Connacht ) ...
In saying all that he quite clearly is a very good footballer but he needs to improve on the above or he ain t going to make it......
In saying all that he quite clearly is a very good footballer but he needs to improve on the above or he ain t going to make it......
Can't agree with that, Dingle.
For one, he hasn't spent enough time at 10, he is only 22, plus he has the kicking game to play territory should he choose.
This 'control a game' phrase is Muster speak for 'does he kick for the corners enough'. The game has moved on, more is required now.
As regards his defence, he is certainly an adequate defender at 10. Bundee Aki will test a lot of people this year.
He won't be coming back to Munster either. Foley's comments were hugely alienating.... we don't leave "its not what WE do". The irony is that Foley himself should have left to coach elsewhere and learn and develop his trade. Insides will now why he was kept close to home.
For one, he hasn't spent enough time at 10, he is only 22, plus he has the kicking game to play territory should he choose.
This 'control a game' phrase is Muster speak for 'does he kick for the corners enough'. The game has moved on, more is required now.
As regards his defence, he is certainly an adequate defender at 10. Bundee Aki will test a lot of people this year.
He won't be coming back to Munster either. Foley's comments were hugely alienating.... we don't leave "its not what WE do". The irony is that Foley himself should have left to coach elsewhere and learn and develop his trade. Insides will now why he was kept close to home.
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