The Disqualification Of Sadlers Risk

Is that an an agreement or a disagreement ?

Disagreement wildman. You simply cannot have horses carrying the wrong weight. Instant disqualification is the only answer. Otherwise you are opening a huge can of worms. The game has enough problems, none being rectified. Highly unlikely Sadler's Risk would have won carrying the correct weight. An extra 4lbs i think. Clerk of scales AND jockey error.

The Young Master was disqualified after winning a race in Wincanton as he wasn't qualified to run in the race but the bets on the day stood.

Sadlers Risk weighed out and in the same so no problem there,accept he wouldn't have won with the correct weight but they should have disqualified the horse later.
All who backed Sadlers Risk couldn't win from the start,that has to be unfair.

IMO all bets on saddles risk shud have been void and a rule 4 put in place nearly sure the likes of PP refunded but the on course punters screwed over again

He had to be disqualified on the day. You say he weighed out and in at the same weight but the problem is that punters weren't aware that this weight was actually four pounds less than what it was meant to be.

The Young Master scenario totally different in that "the correct weight was carried" even though he was not qualified for that race. Anyone who backed Sadler's Risk should have stakes refunded. If certain bookies want to pay out as a winner, fine. How often does this happen?

Maybe Chapman was spot on when he muted that his run should have been voided on the day .Basically treating him as a non runner. As you say Wildman if you cant win you cant loose. On another topic arising from racing at Punchestown on Wednesday it was more than a little sickening to see a person recently banned from racing in this country openly strutting about the enclosures. This fellow has brought the industry into ill repute due to his actions fuelled by pure greed with no regard for damage caused by his actions. Has to get 10 out of 10 for pure neck to be fair.

Elaboration please....

Should be obvious enough. No great need to name names .

Fenton?

Thread will probably disappear soon in any case.

No

Must be John Hughes

Another.

Sorry I meant other than Fenton.

It is a poor show that a disqualified person is not ejected from the racecourse. Fenton is allowed to attend until 1st March 2015.

Would be very surprised if the ex vet was there.

Apparently he has taken it very bad and is housebound,also knows he is public enemy no one in the eyes of the Turf Club.

In the Sadlers Risk case the inquiry was called a long time after the race and plenty were already paid out but the few that backed the original second had thrown their dockets away.

Must have been suffering a little touch of  "cabin fever" on Wednesday then.

Time for revenge Paddy.....Karma is a funny thing.

I cannot abide this kind of old bollloxx talk.....this no need to name names horses pisss....
Philip Fenton is not banned at the moment .....and one thing is absolutely certain......the vet was not there.....who the fukk is it so ?......

And another thing .....how the fukk could saddlers risk hold the race.....he carried the wrong weight.....end of story.....and if he did carry the correct lead.....he would not have won.....
Another kilnaskully special from Dan......

Only other person I can think off that was recently diqualified (depends what you call recent) is Eddie Ahern

He never had a chance of holding the race.Disqualification with SR being treated as a non runner would have been the correct treatment for betting purposes.
The whole concept of double result is alien to what bookmaking should be about...betting on the result of an event.It would be infinitely preferable if they actually laid a bet instead of using double result as a publicity tool to keep the race by race mug punter feeling happier.

And apply 20 cents rule 4 in this instance on all winning bets?

I was done for a fairly decent amount on an exchange with unrequited at Wexford last summer, slightly different circumstances but the same outcome. You just have to take it on the chin and it generally evens itself out over a large sample size.

I think SR should be a non runner for betting purposes.Anyone who backed him cannot win so they shouldn't lose either.A rule 4 would then be made to winning bets.

More than slightly different really as unrequited carried the proper racing weight but Colin Keane failed to weigh in. Saddler's risk would not have won if he carried the right weight and it must have initially being a sweet moment for Andrew Lynch with a decent ride to pip Johnathan Burke.

These instances are rare enough and can't see the rules changing.

Dunquib won the Punchestown bumper and was subsequently disqualified.
He wouldn't have won without the little help but the punters on the day still got paid.
I know its unsatisfactory but what happened was patently unfair,this was obviously a case for letting the result stand and referring it to the Turf Club.

You can't keep having this unseen obstacle in racing,it sours the punters.

Dunguib would have won the Punchestown bumper with a trailer filled with cement blocks tied onto his tail. Notwithstanding, it has nothing to do with the Saddlers Risk case.

It's really simple what should have happened i.e. SR disqualified with a Rule 4. This should apply to all situations where there is a weight discrepancy (over the allowed guidelines). The recriminations afterwards can then begin with blame, and possible sanctions, being apportioned based on the facts as they stand. That SR would most likely not have won if he carried the correct weight is moot in any event. You must legislate in advance for these issues.

I think the punters would be much more sour if they are aware that they can be at a loss in the event that their selection is beaten by a horse who carried an incorrect weight (be it 3/1 or 33/1).

I'd accept that TellTheKing.

One thing is certain what happened was wrong,the time delay was wrong and there would have been chaos if the favourite or a fancied horse had got the race.

On course bookies no longer pay out on lost dockets for the obvious reasons.

There is an error above - obviously i think SR should have been made a NR with the Rule 4 and not DQ'd.

The time delay was very unfortunate and the whole thing poorly handled on course. Under the rules a disqualification was inevitable and it should have been resolved much sooner. Once it became apparent that it was the fault of the clerk then a Turf Club referral was automatic so there was no need for a full-on investigation on the day.

It's never happened me but i'd be surprised if I couldn't get paid out on course on a docket I lost. The first step would be to notify the bookie as soon as possible. I would think the bet would be easily identifiable on the printout. If I was advised that it had already been claimed, depending on the bookie and the time delay, I may approach the HRI on course betting official.

The winning docket is clearly identifiable and can be cashed by the holder whenever he so chooses.
The new rule apparently is the holder of the docket gets paid,bookies will hide behind that to evade payment.

Surely you don't expect a bookie to pay out twice?

Once would do me.

What should happen in this instance is.....firstly the horse should be treated as a runner and certainly disqualified.....
He was given the opportunity to run.....the opportunity to carry the correct weight.....what more does he want.....
It is surely a prerequisite that the jockey knows what weight his mount has to carry......and as for that idiot Kevin Ryan saying its nobodys fault.....what a load of bawloxx.....it was that gormless tool Lynch's fault.......of course the moron was asleep when he was being weighed out.....eleven stone..eleven 4..eleven 8....sure what harm is the clowns attitude.....whatever you say clerk....because I don't know and I don't care either.....
A 30 day ban for Lynch might see him more alert the next day.....and a good kick up the hole as well....

As far as I'm aware they are weighed out in kilograms so it's a bit unfair to say lynch should have known the weight. Unless he knows the exact conversion rate at the top of his head.

Paulie calls jockeys rodents,castigates them for not being good dinner guests only likes the ones that give him information.

The Clerk of the Scales has only one function to weigh them out and in,that's it yet in paulieshate filled world this gentleman is blameless its all the fault of the brave one,again no mention of the trainer or the valet two more blameless individuals.

Correct me if I'm wrong is it not the jockeys valet that gets the weights and saddle set for the weights

The trainer or rep are usually not far away and will collect saddle from jockey who is weighed out by clerk.

Plkey  Paulie , lambasting jockeys again I see , yet not a whimper from him when Dodgy Davy rides a stinker , draw your own conclusions...

Ozy no doubt you and Toby have seen Pikey  Paulies comments re mr Lynch , as the saying goes silence is golden in this case from the both of ye ...

How the fukk can they be weighed out in kilograms.....what a load of cobblers....
This is no different from somebody going into a shop and buying an item for 2 euro......they promptly hand in a 20 euro note....and the shopkeeper hands them back 8 euro.....and the customer looks at the money in his hand and then walks away.....
Ok the shopkeeper is at fault for issuing the wrong change....but the gormless customer is a bigger clown for not opening his mouth....

The weighing out procedure is as follows.....the trainer or his representative [in this case it was Henry himself] will walk into the weighing room and take a number

cloth.....the valet will have prepared the saddle and weight cloth to something near the allotted weight...the jockey will bring saddle and stand on the electronic

scales which show the weight in KG....the clerk of the scales will check the colours worn by the jockey and the number cloth the trainer is holding against his race

card and then inform the jockey whether he has to add or take weight out of his saddle cloth...2lb is also allowed for the back protector so if you are allotted 11st

you can show 11st.2lb something i've never been happy with tbh....once the Clerk of the scales is happy the jockey will pass the saddle to the trainer.

Very rare for the Clerk of the scales to get it wrong tbf....i can't think of another instance.


I find it hilarious that Kevin O'Ryan...someone who knows how to weigh out is being criticised by someone who constantly demonstrates that he knows fck all about anything.

If ever the mantle of Gormless Tool was ever earned by anyone surely that person must be our Paulie.....

Henry De Bromhead said that he was beside Andrew when they were weighing out. Therefore, that's 3 people that are potentially culpable.

All of the above is circumstantial though. If a horse weighs out wrong, regardless of the reason why, they should be made a NR as opposed to DQ'd if for no reason other than integrity. As Kevin Blake wrote recently, there is the potential for skullduggery if you know a horse has been weighed out wrong and cannot possibly win. To take it a step further a horse could be laid on the exchanges with a few small back bets chanced with the bookies. In the event the horse crosses the line in front there would be a small window for the backers to collect before the layers get their dough after the jockey weighs in wrong.

There is no doubt the horse had to be disqualified.

The smiley face leaves you down JR.....that's more like wonkys level......

You should try one Paulie...you wouldn't come across as quite so bitter.

Not being in agreement with a jobsworth like yourself JR.....hardly qualifies as being bitter......

You're obviously not familiar with the weighing out procedure Paulie.

Based on the current rules he had to be DQ'd. I don't agree with them though.

No fair minded person who backed He'llberemembered would dispute that there should have been a Rule 4 with SR stakes refunded. They would accept the situation because its a safe guard if the shoe is ever on the other foot.

What decade are you living in btw Paulie.....did Metrication only happen to other people.

Well it hasn't happened in Irish racing yet JR.....when a horse is given a penalty for winning a race.....is it done in metric?....

When the horses saddle next gets to the weighing scales the penalty it will calculated in KG....it isn't really that difficult Paulie..millions of people have grasped the concept.

The only reason that horses receive penalty's in pounds is to concur with the rating system btw.

when the horse saddle next gets to the weighing scales the penalty it will calculated in KG..JR Im having difficulty grasping that particular statement.....wonder could you explain to me what language that is?....

You seem to be having difficulty in grasping anything about this case but it doesn't seem to bother you.

JR.....please explain what language you are using.....its alien to me.....

Reduced to pulling somebody up on typo's....oh dear Paulie...for some strange reason i was expecting more...woeful effort..please try harder.

Typo my hole.....the sentence makes no sense whatsoever.....now off with ya .....ya jobsworth ya....

Don't get yourself so upset Paulie....losing an argument you never had any chance of wining certainly isn't 'alien' to you.

Pikey Paulie , owned again I see , the word jobsworth must come up a lot in your little chats with Dodgy  Davy ..I.E my jobs worth more than that lay surely Pikey Paulie...

Wonks....stick to other threads with smileys and the Rovers ones also.....you are out of your depth where a bit of intellectual muscle is required.....
And another thing.....please stop sending me that picture of yourself with that thing in your hand.....once was more than enough to see it.....impressive and all as it is.....im not that interested.....maybe one of your dole scrounging mates might appreciate it....but I don't....

Pikey Paulie , bet you have it hanging in the caravan , J.R. has you by the short and curlies mate , has you eating out of his hand ...
You coughing the gotchee money  for the charity..

I rang them up and sent in mine.....I said theres another 150 due....but the dole office wont be open til Monday.....they said no problem.....so theres no rush with yours.....

Dodgy Davy give you the nod ?

100% jockeys are weighed out in pounds...it is displayed in no of pounds for everyone to see...11 stone is 154lb....so if that
is ur weigh on the race card ur jockey needs to be showin 156lb(+2 for bp) at the scales...no  metric weights in irish
racing. Lynch weigh was 11-4 so show 160...but weighed out at 156 so carried 4lb light.

FFS Tocky!...Paulie wouldn't have known whether it was pounds, kilo's or bags of sugar.

What i'm looking forward to finding out is whether The clerk of the scales asked Andrew to take weight out....couldn't see Andrew's valet being that far out although i

suppose it's possible that he [the valet] might have thought the allocated weight was indeed 11st also.....very unlikely though.

Bags of sugar , J.R.show  him a little mercy please ...

Jockey presented himself at the scales at the wrong weight...clerk of scales just did nt cop it...its clerks only job...vallet has abt 50 other things to do but does send out jock at correct weight but has no responabilty other than that...its down to jock & clerk
to insure everything is in order

I realise he's not culpable but the Valet must have sent him out a long way off though Tocky...the initial mistake

must have been with him...and the COTS failed to cop it even though the horses allotted weight would have been

written down in front off him... Ion Hamilton is a very capable clerk of the scales tbf hard to see how he made the mistake.

ya this is true...cos made the mistake he has put his hands up and admited this...he might be suspended...its been takin very serious
by turf club

Yet PIKEY PAULIE blames LYNCH on everything ..The man is a gobshyte of the highest order ...

I think Andrew's only obligation was to inform the cots of his allotted weight when he arrives at the scales

although in truth not many jockeys bother as the cots just reads what's in front of him....weight...colours...race card number.