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workrider
13 Aug 14 11:07
Joined:
Date Joined: 29 Jun 02
| Topic/replies: 39,250 | Blogger: workrider's blog
Reading today's   R/Post and by God did I have a laugh ..They are blaming everyone bar themselves ...Everyone knows young people have lost interest in racing , many find the jargon alone difficult ...The youth of today want instant gratification , no long hours burning the oil trying to find out if x is off today etc , studying the form is a thing of the past with most punters , videos the new form book in many cases ...Football would be gaining rapidly on racing for a share of the market ...So the fact that you can enter one of their shops and get wall to wall coverage of cartoon racing , cartoon football , cartoon motor racing etc ..Oh I almost forgot , the FOBTS , every shop in the UK has at least four of these ..Lets try and place a bet with these giants of the industry .Member of staff asks you to hold on a moment , ringing of phone  ..Excuse me but can I speak to a trader please , I have a punter here wishing to have £20 e/w on a 7/1 , oh sorry to have disturbed you of course I'll explain to him its a trading decision..I'm really sorry to have to inform you I am unable to take that bet , its a trading decision ..Good bye...We've all experienced that at one time or another , have we not ...So with all those cartoons fobts etc , how would a punter have any money left in the first place...Get your house in order before crying foul ...
Pause Switch to Standard View ......Badbrookes and falling profits...
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Report Ozymandius August 14, 2014 4:07 PM BST
If you cant follow dj's argument because it is 'over your head', then that makes two of 'ye'...at least you are prepared to admit your ignorance rather than slur the guy who does get it and is making an effort to explain it to you.
Report pa lapsy August 14, 2014 4:10 PM BST
My ignorance might be my lack of accountancy expertise,your ignorance is well shown up on your 15.43 post.
Report Ozymandius August 14, 2014 4:18 PM BST
What exactly is 'ignorant' about my post?

Borneo's views are dated. Do you disagree?  Why is pointing this out 'ignorant'?

Tolmi makes a similar point when he says; Don't underestimate Ladbrokes is a statement that could only come from someone of your generation wildman. Is that also 'ignorant'?

DJ describes Borneo's views as 'archaic', 'frankly obsolescent' and that he  'lacks awareness'.  Is this also 'ignorant' iyo?
Report Ozymandius August 14, 2014 4:23 PM BST
Here you go, Pa;

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-read-a-business-balance-sheet.html

Not that will help, Borneo, he cannot c& p links. Plain   Very up to speed otherwise of course.
Report pa lapsy August 14, 2014 4:24 PM BST
You came onto the thread to score points,that's all,nothing whatsoever concerning the topic in question. You can call it what you want.
No intention of going around in circles with you and not fair on the people who have given very valid views on the subject matter,so cheerio now.
Report Ozymandius August 14, 2014 4:30 PM BST
Cheerio Pa.

I fully agree with the view of all posters on this topic with the exception of one.  Therefore i saw no need to contribute towards what was an emerging consensus.

I got involved because as usual Borneo resorted to 'playing the man rather than the ball'.  DJ is one of the more informed and intelligent posters we have and it is not right to see him being hounded.  If Borneo was half as perceptive as you seem to think he is , he would choose to learn from DJ rather than blindly knocking him.

If you understod balance sheets then presumably you would be able to deduce that for yourself instead of sticking your tribal oar in.
Report Distant View August 14, 2014 4:40 PM BST
The Interim results for the Half Year ended 30 June is a 41 page document and on course is mentioned once in the entire pdf. This refers to the exceptional gain of £0.3m from the sale of on course pitches.

What they are doing on course makes next to no difference to the overall profits and it was the bigger picture that I would have thought was the reason for this thread. Obviously individual personal experience at the track is different, but in terms of how Ladbrokes is performing, it is as closely to completely irrelevant as it can be.

Digital revenue being down from 10.8m to 3.0m is incredible but there seems to be a marketing spend of 31% of net revenue, which is extraordinarily high. This looks to be simply down to the fact that they have finally accepted that they are light years behind competitors now and have to spend to compete. Their banking page on the website was not working for an extended period during the World Cup, which tyells you all you need to know about them.

There is no real benefit to me in going through the full report, unless I want to invest at these 12.2 P/E levels, but all the information is readily in the investor centre and outlines just what a challenge they have.
Report Kelly August 14, 2014 5:34 PM BST
Tolmi , reference my earlier post , the last 10 times I have been in that shop there has been NOBODY else in the shop at the same time .  Used to be a busy shop in the old days before bookies were common on the high street .  Barney bought the shop to keep Sean Graham out .

Only reason for keeping it open presumably is licence consideration .  They have another big shop 40 yards away which used to be the biggest in the whole of Ireland turnover wise .

Probably does turnover more than 50k , and anyway who cares , but could not possibly generate any profit given overheads , and no FOBT punters either . What it does show is that Barney sold well !
Report kingrat August 14, 2014 7:06 PM BST
arguing the toss with wildman?

  " is like trying to picking up mercury with a fork."

            david lloyd george  WinkLaugh
Report wildmanfromborneo August 14, 2014 9:37 PM BST
" try using a spoon "

I put up general points on Ladbrokes,I agreed with Tolmi when he pointed out in reasonable terms I was behind the times.

Distant View also expressed his view in a fair and reasonable manner and is correct.

DJ876 just came on with his blinkered verbose way to score points,there is a difference too in that I know both Tolmi and Distant View are interested in racing.

Where I differ is this idea that you cannot broaden the discussion,their on course operation is now huge in Ireland that affects me and other racegoers,it also affects all who back on Irish racing.

Has no one noticed how late the opening shows are in Ireland,this is a deliberate ploy to stop the correct opening shows going through the offices.
They have managed this by changing the means of compiling the SP,they now only use a small sample,they also know who is in that sample.

Ladbrokes bet in Dundalk,its the weakest betting ring in Ireland as do Paddy Power,they are there solely to manipulate the SP.

My other point about their shops giving the worst value is borne out by the fact not one arber operates out of Ladbrokes,they all are in Boyles or Powers.

They may be going through a hard time now but again I say don't underestimate them,they have the backing of a certain group of money men who will turn it around.
Report kingrat August 14, 2014 10:58 PM BST
a great reponse by eamo tbf!

but u are not in his league and are talking ****!

LaughLaughLaugh
Report wildmanfromborneo August 14, 2014 11:26 PM BST
Would I want to be in his league.

Caused the civil war in the twenties
Caused the economic war in the thirties.
Was pro German in the forties.
Responsible for stagnation and emigration in the fifties.
Refused to retire and was a useless president in the sixties.

I won't even mention the Irish Press shares
Report Kelly August 15, 2014 12:49 AM BST
What affects punters the length and breadth of this island are the prices offered on course by the bookies , ultimately that controls the eventual SP . There are no rules or regulations about prices offered or returned  , nominally it is a free market situation , but effectively it is a show run by the bookies for the bookies .  Therein lies the problem .

The bookies are quite unashamed about returning SP's 15 to 50 % overround , Dundalk is one of the worst , I never would back a horse at SP in Dundalk .

Until there is LEGISLATION the bookies will continue to control the prices unashamedly in their favour .

With current computing availability Betfair have shown there can be instant SP's at the off .  There is nothing to stop a similar operation on course , all the bookies operate on odds boards controlled by computer . Collection of the last bets laid on each horse in a race would be a relatively simple matter , in the old days ( and maybe still ) the SP's were arrived at by referencing a selection of the on course bookies .

If I was the Minister of Finance ( or whoever has ultimate responsibility for bookies jurisdiction wise ) I would have the following rules in place for an on course bookie

1.  All odds would be displayed for each horse in a race , and the betting percentage would also have to be displayed . Up to an agreed figure ( say 115% ) no odds for a race could be displayed unless the 115% was attained .

2.  At the odds displayed any horse would have to be laid up to a certain figure ( as in Australia ) -- eliminating knock backs and scrubbing .  That would only apply to the "first in queue" .

3.  SP's would be returned on basis of last bets taken  , with reference to as many bookies as could be hooked into a system .  However rules 1 and 2 should take care of SP's being fair .

I can see any bookie readers of this post cringing  , and "loss of a living" etc cries .  The truth however about the ring is that an awful lot of bets are taken on course and the liabilty transferred to the Betfair markets with inherent profitability . Which makes me always smile when I hear a bookie complaining about arbers , the bookies are the biggest arbers in the racing business .  Nothing new in that , several of my friends were bookies in the old days , they openly talked about backing for the "book" . One big firm had "morning runners " going about nicking prices before arbers were being pilloried by the bookies .

There are few new tricks , most of practices are the result of logical thought . But if some of what I have posted were in place the markets would be more vibrant as the punters would recognise they were getting a fairer deal all around . That would suit the bookies too . You cant make a living standing there scratching your you know whats , you need turnover .  Ask JP , he was as good at generating turnover as there was , because he knew value and he was civil with it . And he didn't close accounts .
Report wildmanfromborneo August 15, 2014 8:56 AM BST
Agree with you about bookies being the biggest arbers of the lot.

A punter I know had fifty quid on a horse in Mallow,looked at his ticket whilst walking away wrong horse returned explained the situation bookie refused to change the ticket,the price hadn't changed in the interim,racing board official got involved took him to one side and told him ticket can't be changed as they had had the lot back on the purple.

Neither horse won.

Kelly your rules sound great but are hardly practical,how would these rules be enforced and how would you stop them going broke.
It would be heaven for a corpulent gentleman.

JP was civil as a bookmaker but if he ever went after a horse you backed you knew your fate,ask Timmy OToole.
Report Ozymandius August 15, 2014 9:22 AM BST
It's news to us all the Dunphy was 'pro German in the 40's'.  Did they have much of a team back then?
Report Kelly August 15, 2014 11:06 AM BST
Wildman , technology would ensure the rules re percentages  , each horse would have to be priced up before the odds registered for display .  Simple programming .

Regarding layability , that would always be subject to personal relationships between punter and bookie , as at present . Odds laid would be a matter of record ( computer) , change of odds would be OK as long as it met the percentage criteria .  Agree it may never happen , because it would be fairer for the punter , and the bookies dont want to give up anything which costs them potentially .

However I suspect that the laws of diminishing returns may play a part in the bookies viewpoints , surely they are not all arbers  , there must be some among them who are basically layers ?
Report wildmanfromborneo August 15, 2014 11:17 AM BST
I think punters never have had it so good,betting is now tax free,we now can see every race.
Report kavvie August 15, 2014 11:17 AM BST
they are a sorry mess.kilrush two shops 30 yards from each other? whats that about?ballinasloe and athlone two huge shops on main streets always empty,while pp ones nearby full of people..one in ennis always empty...people realise that the prices in there are a joke and have voted with their feet..no harm really.a rancid crowd.
Report Kelly August 15, 2014 11:27 AM BST
Not sure how many shops Lads have in the whole of Ireland , obviously in North they bought 46 shops from BJ , and they have some others as well . Added to their considerable presence in the south , they must have a rake of shops island wide .  Think at some stage they were envisaging control .  Reckoned without the native cunning though , pipe dream now unless there is a seed change in attitude .

There is no buzz in any of their shops that we watched grow and prosper in the 40 years from mid sixties to 2005 approx .  Exchanges and betting interests have changed , but there is still a bit of buzz in the pp shops which are after all operating in the same environment .  PP are trying though .

Was in a shop in Dingle last month , no bet , just professional curiosity .  Independent I assume . They had some decent "offers" , and there were a good few punters ( English mainly juged quickly on accents ) , there is business out there if you really want it .
Report kavvie August 15, 2014 11:29 AM BST
lad i know had an indo in newmarket on fergus in clare.good buzz.always a  good few in there.good offers at times..as you say its there if u want it
Report Kelly August 15, 2014 11:38 AM BST
There is a different breed out there nowadays compared with days of yore .  Most of that is the result of technology and the fact that the bean counters are in charge , not the layers / gamblers .

Sometimes wonder what the scene will be like in 10 years time .
Report wildmanfromborneo August 15, 2014 11:40 AM BST
Kelly they bought them thinking the FOBTs would be allowed,a gamble that lost

Kavvie you have inadvertently hit on Ladbrokes main marketing feature,I presume you can remember what the Newmarket On Ferguson layer called himself.
Report workrider August 15, 2014 11:48 AM BST
OLD BEAN was it not ...
Report wildmanfromborneo August 15, 2014 11:54 AM BST
Yes but I think his shop name was Badblokes,he just put an L where you had an R.
Report wildmanfromborneo August 15, 2014 12:03 PM BST
The good buzz and the good offers Kavvie mentions are no more as its closed down,does that not tell you something.
Report workrider August 15, 2014 12:20 PM BST
Some intriguing points you make there Kelly  , if only they could be brought to fruition.. Sadly for us this wont happen any time soon Wildmanfromborneo touched on something re the delayed shows in shops , it came to my attention last Thurs at Leopardstown , having seen a show on the bookies boards just before entering the pp shop , if you look out the door you can see the bookies prices , yet there was no show in the shop , less than 20yds away ..Strange or what ..Getting back to the main topic and the demise of Badbrokes , before feeling sorry for them , lets have a little look at them , they have their own exchange ..They help , I'm been sarcastic here , with the sp , they now have massive representation on course ..So to all intents and purposes if this was a game of poker they hold a winning hand ..Yet all they do is bleat about how the markets etc are not in their favor , amazing when you think about it ...DG 876 hit the nail on the head without realizing it , he castigates people on here me included for not been aware of value , Badbrokes leave a sour taste in the mouth when it comes to value , its nonexistent with them and that is the simple truth ..Its not about spreadsheets etc , its simply about giving value , they don't ...Some on here might find it hard to believe but I once had a little business , worked hard at it and enjoy the thrust of battle ..Then it got harder and harder to make ends meets , bigger and better company's started to hassle for my part of the pie , the fact they were able to give better value than me I reluctantly had to cease trading ...The moral of the story is ..VALUE is king...
Report RoyalAcademy August 15, 2014 12:34 PM BST
The Phoenix always seemed to have the inside line on Ladbroke's Irish business. From memory, there was a considerable amount of internal bloodletting with control of Ireland moving back to UK? If they think a pretty face is all that's needed (no offence intended) then they are deluded.

Taking on Peerless PP from abroad wouldn't be the cleverest strategy. If you assume the majority of your customers are "tick" and offer them a service accordingly, you die.
Report kavvie August 15, 2014 12:43 PM BST
no lads..badblokes was diff guy.and i think the reason he closed wasnt to do with the betting end of it.dont think he had time for it!!
Report kavvie August 15, 2014 12:46 PM BST
lets bet is the name of the shop...run by the fearless oldbean!!
Report kingrat August 15, 2014 4:10 PM BST
i am shocked at u wildman.i thought eamo was "the big cheese","the man" and u noddingly appoved of this geezer.the furgal living and comely maidens that kept their knickers on.
i suppose i could argue the toss about u rewriting history but we would take up to many bytes on the thread and leave no space for kelly's post.Laugh
Report Send.in.the.clowns August 17, 2014 9:09 AM BST
had a ruck in the ladbrokes "terrapin" shop on walkinstown roundabout once (if anyone has not had the pleasure, Its a real joy to behold)

Asked for 100win 50place a horse, told "we dont take place bets" - "you do if the stake is less than win, says me" - she rings the "area manager" who confirms they cannot take the place bet!!

I cross it out and put 50win 50ew instead, she says that if fine to take :)

Ran like a hairy goat. but sums up the brains they have in the shops.
Report wildmanfromborneo August 17, 2014 11:49 AM BST
How big is Newmarket on Fergus ?

I was there many years ago collecting a horse from Pat Hannon and it was a village,yet it had two betting shops Badblokes and Letsbet and now has a Ladbrokes,is it all Bonnie and Clyde Limerick money.
Report Kelly August 17, 2014 12:01 PM BST
If you are trying to get bets on it is generally better to go to the females in most offices .  Particularly if they are engaged in conversation about last night trysts etc with their female compadres .  Some of the guys are clued in , but few of the females .  The clued in females stand out a mile , and timing your approach becomes vital if you want to avoid them .
Report huddys August 17, 2014 1:18 PM BST
Use to do the pick 6 with them when the pick 6 bet was only on every sunday,one sunday the staff were able to take the bet,next week they didn't know how to process the bet,because it had to go through the tote system in the shop,and the odd time they would put the bet through as a placepot,in the end I gave up going down to the shop to do the bet,never bet with lads with the exception of doing a golfer if they are top price with them,
Report kavvie August 17, 2014 1:20 PM BST
wild man theres one shop only in newmaket on fergus  its letsbet.the one that closed was actually called "badblokes"!!
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 3:25 PM BST
I have read near enough the whole thread and i am very well placed to comment.

I cant say too much but i have done some course work and other for them over a good period.

I know some of laddies compilers and senior policy makers.

There are some good points on some posts here along with some naieve ones also on the same post.

When i look to invest in a company the balance sheet is not the main factor at all.

Policy strategy and the physcology of the MD and his board are vital, and how they see time and transition along with property and Gov policy and the youth and the tekkies.

All these and other factors are relevant.

They had a accountancy style tradition for a hell of along time. They have a particular type of Dna passed down.

Owning or renting, fast or slow. I could go on in greater detail for a time.

Ladbrokes matter.........Ladbrokes position in the market is STRONGEST and will remain so.

I can tell you, dont get on the wrong side of them.

They have without doubt the best marked card in the business...

...........SP RULES............SP ALWAYS RULED.............LADBROKES RULE THAT......FACT..


However FOBT ONE   equates to 30k a year profit sterling avr.

The laddies breakdown used run something like this...

Horse racing and dogs 78% sports 22%

Now FOBT s have turned that on its head...

Tekkie is a huge area of costly investment, rapidly changing, and to some extent, still in its infancy.


All i can say is that Wildman has the insight and craft to deduce............Grin
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 3:29 PM BST
LOL.................REALLY HARD


Getting bets on with the girls......................means you have no ground at all to stand onLaugh

Getting paid is where my concerns would be.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 3:30 PM BST
How old are you Pecker Dunne as a matter of interest?
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 3:32 PM BST
i think you know i am not 21 Oz.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 3:35 PM BST
That wasn't what i was implying.  Quite the contrary in fact.

In other beaking news, Sony no longer have the portable music business by the balls because of the Walkman.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 3:46 PM BST
Oz

That wasn't what i was implying either. Quite the contrary in fact.

In other breaking news, Kilkenny hurlers are not the force of old but have reached yet another all ireland final.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 3:51 PM BST
Good analogy, if Kilkenny were a PLC their share price would also be in decline.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 3:55 PM BST
yes thats the debate, glad you got it in the end.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:02 PM BST
good luck catching that falling knife.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:05 PM BST
what goes up.................
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:08 PM BST
Coral..............non league

will hill.i know these closely too. They will never overtake Laddies.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:08 PM BST
You seem shrewd, Pecker.

If you have any other pearls of investment advice, do share.

So far we have;

* Don't worry about balance sheets, and
* What goes up...
Report kavvie August 17, 2014 4:14 PM BST
pecker heres what i think of ladbrokes shops in ireland.clueless staff.bad/joke morning prices.empty shops,never take a decent bet.,,and u seem to think its all sweetness and light?!!?am i missing something?
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:15 PM BST
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/winning-betting-war-ladbrokes-william-1250...
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:15 PM BST
Educate me some wiseguy.

Who is the industry market leader?
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:17 PM BST
Has the debate suddenly changed?
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:17 PM BST
PRIME RETAIL LOCATION................

Who comes first...................


LADDIES DO..........................
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:18 PM BST
See thread title.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:22 PM BST
Kavvie, no ,not at all.

I totally agree.

I never touched on customer service or trading principles.

All i am saying is falling profits on the balance sheet mean SFA.

I dont need yahoo or some other finance guru telling me what he wants me to believe when i already know from many years first hand.
Report kavvie August 17, 2014 4:23 PM BST
were talking about an outfit that perceived as a joke by punters?what has location to do with it?the ladbrokes life ads?a  sad joke also..
Report pa lapsy August 17, 2014 4:23 PM BST
Can't believe you are sticking up for them Pecker,they sponsor a few races fair enough but what they offer their Irish customer they should be ran out of the country and the sooner the better with the prices they give.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:26 PM BST
One person uses so many words to say absolutely nothing of consequence.

The other person with respect, clearly does not understand.
Report kavvie August 17, 2014 4:27 PM BST
me not understand?..if you go to a restaurant and get a bad meal u dont go back.same thing to me..what do i not undrstand?
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:29 PM BST
P.A

I HATE THEM WITH EVERY DROP OF BLOOD IN ME.


I am merely debating the facts or perception with regard loss of profits.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:30 PM BST
This is a masterclass in debating, Pecker.  Do carry on.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:32 PM BST
Sorry Kavie,

its all about location and  prime retail estate also cash flow and timeing.
Report pa lapsy August 17, 2014 4:34 PM BST
I beg your pardon Pecker,picked you up wrong, that's a different matter in regards perception with profit loss, no accountant but after reading their half yearly report it seemed to me to be a fair downturn on the previous half.
Thanks to Distant View for his point earlier in the thread.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:35 PM BST
Oz, it appears you just have a negative outlook and like to attack because you cant mount a defence because you have none without referring to others for information in order to form a false deluded opinion.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:35 PM BST
So its a real estate play?

Who knew?  All these fools investing in their digital platform when they should have focused on their real estate.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:37 PM BST
PA.........thats grand..

I do have accountancy exams behind me and have some understanding.

I don't claim to be shrewd or otherwise.
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:40 PM BST
One company spent a fortune a few years back just. Then ripped it all out and started again.

Not to mention the rock and all sorts of other issue.
Report dj876 August 17, 2014 4:44 PM BST
What goes up..?

Nokia,Dell,General Motors,lehaman brothers,Enron,INM.

Peckerdunne,
It's hard to know where to start because your posts are littered with factual errors and lack any substantial detail or content under the veneer of being bound to confidentiality. Your proclamation of value investing over growth investing is about the only thing you have got right but there are far superior investments with P/E multiples of 12 available than a company who has no digital platform in an industry that is dominated by online revenues.

"Tekkie is a huge area of costly investment, rapidly changing, and to some extent, still in its infancy."

The above statement is astonishing and reveals a distinct lack of awareness,the online market has almost completely evolved and is so competitive that it is almost impossible to penetrate the home markets. I would not be investing in this industry at all at the moment due to increased legislation and potentially an increasing array of taxation measures.  They're online operating profit is €3m (Distant View correctly points out that this is exaggerated by recent investment) their position is virtually unrecoverable due to the shambles they have made of their mobile applications and website.

"When i look to invest in a company the balance sheet is not the main factor at all.
Policy strategy and the physcology of the MD and his board are vital, and how they see time and transition along with property and Gov policy and the youth and the tekkies."

Obviously investing should not be based exclusively on fundamentals but it would be folly to make an investment without carrying out a detailed cash flow discounting model. I can't wait to hear what you find so attractive about the current board of laddies and their coherent strategic plan?

You're completely overestimating the importance of retail bookmaking and ignoring how far their online presence is behind that of their competitors. They have a mountain to climb to even challenge their online competitors at this advanced stage. The ubiquitous and pervasiveness concept of profitable retail bookmaking is in terminal decline .
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:44 PM BST
Anyway I am off to invest in Barnes & Noble booksellers.  A market leader with fantastic prime real estate. This online milarkey is all a fad.

Laters, Pecker!
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:45 PM BST
Oz

it appears i know little about hurling also, but i will enjoy counting the money..

then i will invest in some company with retail premises in the ars e end of nowhere
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:53 PM BST
No flies on Pecker!
Report peckerdunne August 17, 2014 4:53 PM BST
DJ

Thanks for supporting my point so eloquently.

I would not be risk taking with you.

You have a bias that will hinder you.
Report Ozymandius August 17, 2014 4:55 PM BST
Laugh

Reminiscent of Borneo at times.
Report wildmanfromborneo August 18, 2014 9:31 AM BST
Good to see others see through the verbose boring DJ876 and his wannabe friend Ozymandius,he is seen as Kingrats replacement.

Dj876 is probably a good accountant with John Lennon type glasses,needs security so not self employed,works for the government or some EU funded organisation.

His life is so ordered that any move off topic however slight is met with consternation and an inability to cope.

Ray Davies had him in mind when he wrote A Well Respected Man.
Report Ozymandius August 18, 2014 10:50 AM BST
More playing of the man rather than the ball.

I don't consider dj verbose or boring;  he uses technical terms which may be beyond you.  His writing is succinct, accurate and concerned with the debate at hand.  Always relevant, always interesting.

DCF's and PEG ratios etc are not the traditional staples of the practising accountant, being concerned more with valuation than recording.  He may have an accounting qualification but I suspect he has broader responsibilities.

If he is a public servant, then fantastic.  we are lucky to have him working for us.  I suspect a man of his ability will not find the rewards of the public sector attractive when compared to his worth in the private sector.

This notion of him as ordered or risk adverse as a negative is a complete nonsense.  All modern punters are concerned with risk assesment and use of all available tools accordingly.  The fact that he doesn't go 'all in' every month or so should mark him down as competent, not the reverse.

In summary, an educated, intelligent, perceptive, well-informed, articulate and capable contributor and gambler.
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 11:11 AM BST
OZ

The chap obviously has capabilities. It is a shame he takes them for granted.

The chap is blinded. As i said he has a bias.

"Tekkie is a huge area of costly investment, rapidly changing, and to some extent, still in its infancy."

His response refers to market conditions which i never mentioned. His bias has blinded him.

His desire to get his tuppence in has has led him to answer a different topic all together.

Peckerdunne,
It's hard to know where to start because your posts are littered with factual errors and lack any substantial detail or content under the veneer of being bound to confidentiality

He has not been able to pin point my factual errors as yet.

He then makes a leap of faith to state some veneer of being bound to confidentiality.

So he can read and write, he can copy and paste but he cant get past his bias. He could'nt forecast christmas without checking with daddy first.
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 11:20 AM BST
. Your proclamation of value investing over growth investing is about the only thing you have got right but there are far superior investments with P/E multiples of 12 available than a company who has no digital platform in an industry that is dominated by online revenues.

His bias has blinded him again. I think he is bred to feel superior or to attempt to make others feel inferior.

However his above statement has no relevance to the matter of Laddies profit margin and no one claimed them to be a good investment.He chooses to digress because of his bias.
Report wildmanfromborneo August 18, 2014 11:23 AM BST
He may be educated,he may be intelligent,he may be perceptive,he maybe well informed,he may be articulate,he may be a capable contributor but he is not or never was a gambler.

He is a risk averse numbers man with no soul,no joy just a monotonous drone with a short fuse.

Ozymandius he will be delighted with your description of him whether its enough to get him on your team is another matter
Report Ozymandius August 18, 2014 11:24 AM BST
Pecker, I have no idea what points you are trying to make about Ladbrokes at this stage.  Exactly what topic do you think you are addressing?

Everyone who responds to you, you suggest don't get it or or are biased. Don't get what exactly? And biased against what exactly?

You used to work for them (no idea when) and respect their market position and power, is that it in a nutshell?

Do you think they will come good again and are a good investment?
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 11:34 AM BST
The above statement is astonishing and reveals a distinct lack of awareness,the online market has almost completely evolved and is so competitive that it is almost impossible to penetrate the home markets. I would not be investing in this industry at all at the moment due to increased legislation and potentially an increasing array of taxation measures.  They're online operating profit is €3m (Distant View correctly points out that this is exaggerated by recent investment) their position is virtually unrecoverable due to the shambles they have made of their mobile applications and website.

So now he is trying to rehash my earlier points regarding taxation and and legislation, which he must have missed due to a bias and then use that to further his point, which does not deal with the topic. He chooses to meander from this to that in an attempt to distract from his bias.

As regards unrecoverable positions. He clearly does not understand the industry. It is a joke of a statement.
Report Ozymandius August 18, 2014 11:39 AM BST
Any old g0b**** can be a 'gambler'.  With 95% or so losing money it is hardly a badge of honour.

Its abut being a 'successful gambler'....that is what should garner respect.  I would have thought being au fait with numbers and being risk aware were key components to successful gambling.
Report Ozymandius August 18, 2014 11:42 AM BST
Pecker,any chance of addressing the questions in my post of 11.24?
Report wildmanfromborneo August 18, 2014 11:56 AM BST
You should enjoy betting,you should enjoy gambling DJ876 is formulaic mentally twisted,crammed with rules and unsuccessful.

He has given some wishy washy write ups ( King George a prime example ) lots of words no commitment all had great chances when finally nailed down he tipped two horses naturally both lost.
His tipping record here is way the worst but he thinks its good more of his blindness,normally I wouldn't mention that but he first launched an unprovoked attack on Workrider followed by another snide attack on Richters,he then made false allegations against me and in true style when the relevant thread reemerged it was DJ876 who had made the alleged allegations.
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 11:57 AM BST
Oz

Do i have to spoon feed you.

The late 90s started a transition period for more than one reason as i have pointed out earlier.

Big money was spent on bet capture and other systems that cost a fortune but then had to be ripped out as pointed out earlier.

I have mentioned tax, gov policy, the rock, changing product and customer base.

Laddies will bounce back. Laddies have control. I am not a fan of them and reccommend nothing.

If people think it is a slippery slope to no where, they will be wrong.

I fail to see how can comment when you have contributed nothing what so ever other than trite.

I paint a picture but you and buddy could'nt frame a postcard.
Report Ozymandius August 18, 2014 11:59 AM BST
I don't know why I bother!  Pecker is clearly an incoherent, rambling tool!
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 12:01 PM BST
The ubiquitous and pervasiveness concept of profitable retail bookmaking is in terminal decline .

He really enlightened everyone with this groundbreaking news.
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 12:04 PM BST
Oz

I know why you bother.

It is a shame all you can do is condemn.
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 12:09 PM BST
Joined: 01 Jul 11 | Topic/replies: 10,528 | Blogger: Ozymandius's blog
It's ironic that you repeatedly point out that djs mind is 'stilted'.  Rich coming from a man who thinks and behaves it is still 1958.

As usual he is owning you in a factual debate and your attempts at obsfucation are laughable.
Rate reply:
| report block user


This was the first post you made on this thread and you have continued in this vein.

You cant argue with a fool my Da use to say.
Report workrider August 18, 2014 12:28 PM BST
Norman must think he's in the chipper , he's getting battered that much...Laugh
Report Ozymandius August 18, 2014 12:58 PM BST
I think there may be drink involved here.  It would explain the lack of coherency.
Report Tolmi August 18, 2014 2:05 PM BST
Pecker,

I am intrigued by your comment "Laddies have control"

Control of what?

And what benefit do they derive from this control?
Report wildmanfromborneo August 18, 2014 2:08 PM BST
The SP for one,they decide it now.
Report kavvie August 18, 2014 2:10 PM BST
an inflated opinion of his own intelligence im thinking...laddies are primarily a turf accountant.at this business(shop and internet) they are a shambles.what else is there to know?
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 2:34 PM BST
Kavvie

Why be insulting.There are many people on here with more intelligence than myself.

If you actually read the thread you would see that i have already stated what is in your post.

Intelligence is fine but it has to used well.
Report peckerdunne August 18, 2014 2:37 PM BST
They have not been known as the magic sign for nothing.

I am tired of the idiots now.
Report Tolmi August 18, 2014 2:42 PM BST
I understand the point about the SP but that derives benefit to the rest of the industry also even if they can manipulate it to suit themselves better than the rest.However the control of SP will not benefit the margin by much more than .1/.2 % if that.

I am at a loss to understand the rationale behind that thinking that somehow Laddies are in control of the whole situation and somehow their former glory days will shortly be on the way back.

They are playing catch up in a fast moving environment and the bedrock of their shop profitability, the FOBTs, are vulnerable to a change of government in the UK and to the rightful ire they are attracting.Add in the possibility of tax hikes,the growing issue of public awareness of problem gambling, and legislation in the form of the Betting Amendment Act and Gambling Control Bill here,Point of Consumption Tax in the UK and the whole issue of cash transactions and money laundering at EU level and I think control of SP's or anything else for that matter will not be of much use to them.
Report Kelly August 18, 2014 11:30 PM BST
The FOBT's are keeping a lot of the shops in UK solvent ( just about in poor locations ) . There are far too many bookies shops for the number of punters who want to bet in shops these days . Reckon there will be 30% less shops in 5 years time . The fact that Ladbrokes have probably the biggest number of shops means they are going to have to divest themselves of quite a few .  Particularly if a new government takes note of the opposition to FOBT's  prevalent in the media recently ( and over the last few years ) .

Dont know the relevant figures , but once upon a time 90% of all bookies turnover came from the high street shops ( except special circumstance bookies ) . I have no idea of the relevant figures these days , but with on line and exchange possibilities there must be a severe downturn in high street bookie shop betting compared with days of yore .  And the trend is going to be further downward in the shops , the only debate will be the market share .

Ladcrooks are not the only ones affected  , but nothing I have seen recently about their operation convinces me they have any answers , or any will towards possible rectification . Working SP nowadays must be hard work to stay aware most of the day . Used to be interesting when there was a bit of buzz and craic about , but increasingly that seems to be devoid .
Report Kelly August 19, 2014 10:40 AM BST
As an aside , just checked the betting on the purple site for tonights Sligo racing . The sum total matched just now on ALL the races is £51 .  There are 4 or 5 races where there is not a penny matched .
Report pa lapsy August 19, 2014 10:50 AM BST
The daqs "robot" is probably still in bed, around or slightly over £100 matched on here in most races, rotten card overall,but the beauty of it is it leaves the books with no guiding hand in having to compile their own book.
Report Kelly August 19, 2014 10:54 AM BST
No great activity on here either ,pa , but some movement .  Nothing doing at all over there .  Agree it is an uninspiring card .
Report peckerdunne May 15, 2021 1:23 PM BST
Owners of bookies Ladbrokes and Coral made £1.5m profit per day last year as online business booms March 2020
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