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Re betting tax , several tweets suggesting punters will revolt and go elsewhere ..Maybe even underground , it begs the question , what value do they put on the betting man and his contribution ..Zilch seems to be the answer ..Punters are not represented in any shape or form , never consulted , expected to put up with low grade tracks , in some cases vile food , or what goes for food , high entrance costs , poor vacillates , etc etc ..Yet the begging bowl is handed out , and guess who's money they want ...As a punter for over 40 yrs I find myself at the end of my tether , fed up to the back teeth ...If the truth be known , without the punter nothing EXISTS anybody who believes otherwise is living in a pink cloud ...Nothing happens without punters money , having been a owner myself I know the high cost involved in having a horse in training ..I went in with my eyes open , at the end of the day there was the possibility of winning a race and with it some cash ...So I went down that path , it was my choice and after the expense of both the cost of purchasing , training , jockeys fee , vets bills , gallop fees , and of course the word that covers a multitude SUNDRIES , I stayed loyal till the cash ran out ..On this new taxation issue I would advise them to think long and hard before asking the PUNTER to pay more for their product , I have a feeling a lot will vote with their feet never to return....
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agree with you totally.im pis$ed off by it all recently.what with heavy restrictions etc its a dying game.this could tip te balance
What is the propasal WR? And how close is it coming to fruition? And is it a tax on all betting, or just the horses?
Kav and WR is there any place i can read about it online?
I think this must be it
http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=4593&cid=5
Blake’s Blog: Change In The Air For Betting Tax?
THERE is a momentum gathering behind the proposal to increase betting tax in Ireland and that this charge should be passed on to the punter. This topic should really should be generating more comment from anyone with an interest in betting.
The newly-formed Alliance For Racing has been proposing an increase in the tax from 1% to 2.5% and last week in the Dáil, the chairman of Horse Racing Ireland, Joe Keeling, called for a tax increase, adding that it should be seen as a duty and not a tax and that the betting customer should pay it.
Such a change would have a very significant impact on the day-to-day dealings of the betting public, bringing an end to what history is likely to view as the greatest-ever period for the Irish betting public, the better part of a decade during which they didn’t have to pay any tax on their stakes or winnings.
I have discussed this issue with many different people from many different interest groups in recent months and the case for increasing betting tax is a compelling one. The Irish are world-class when it comes to horse racing, but our industry is run on a relative shoestring budget that is dictated by the generosity of our Government and the size of which is uncertain from year-to-year.
This is unquestionably an unsatisfactory situation and if the money to finance our industry to an appropriate level can be generated in a fair manner from within the industry, as it is in the vast majority of racing nations, that would only be a good thing.
That said, there aren’t many punters who would be happy to return to the days of paying tax on their bets, be it on stakes or winnings, and convincing them that is a fair solution or even being able to enforce such a tax when tax-free betting remains in Britain would be a serious challenge. The best chance that those proposing such changes would have of getting such agreement/compliance would be to engage with the people they are proposing to tax, the betting public. Unfortunately, the betting public remain the only major interest group in the racing industry that do not have an organisation dedicated to representing their interests and to put forward their views.
The closest thing that the betting public have to official representation in the industry is the Racegoers Consultative Forum (RCF) which was established as a requirement of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001 "for the purpose of consultations relating to the operations of HRI in the context of developments of desired developments in the horseracing industry generally as they affect the racegoer or service or facility user".
The RCF is due to make a submission to the Joint Oireachtas Committee in relation to the Horse Racing Ireland (Amendment) Bill 2014 on September 16th, so it will be very interesting indeed to see if they discuss the many issues relating to the interests of the betting public that the Bill raises or simply stick to the interests of non-betting racegoers. If the latter proves to be the case, the time may have come for something to be done to give the betting public the official representation that it needs and deserves in the industry.
New Track At Ballinrobe An Excellent Addition
Having been impressed with Sligo on my first visit there in a while last week, on Monday I made the not-quite-so-long trip to Ballinrobe for the first time this year, primarily to have a good look at the new track that they opened for the first time last month.
It has very much been a long-term project for the team at Ballinrobe, one that stretches back a decade and involved the moving of an estimated one million tonnes of fill to turn what was part of a golf course into part of a racetrack, but the result will very much change the entire nature of racing at Ballinrobe. What was once a tight track will no longer be a tight track on the occasions when the new extension is used.
There is great width there and, barring a reasonably steep rise at the entrance to the new track, the inclines are steady and inviting. It is an excellent addition to the track and one would hope that their hard work is rewarded by them being given better class of races, as I suspect there won’t be too many trainers who would have a problem with running a decent horse around the new track.
In terms of the overall racing experience at Ballinrobe, in common with the likes of Sligo, Downpatrick and Down Royal, they are really putting in the effort to give their customers a good experience. Everything is clean and new looking, the buildings are spacious with plenty of seating and the viewing from the stand remains as good as ever. The layout of the track is conducive to creating a lively atmosphere and it was well supported on the Monday evening that I attended. The facilities for the professionals were also more than satisfactory, with the jockeys room/sauna being well up to scratch.
In short, it is a lovely place to spend an evening at the races and again, plenty of more high-profile tracks could learn plenty from how these smaller tracks are treating their customers.
Ride Of The Week
It has been discussed in this space before that Joseph O’Brien seems destined to be the most underappreciated rider of his generation due to the fact his father trains most of the winners he rides, but on Saturday he showcased his riding talents with a remarkable display of balance and riding skill on Tapestry in the Darley Irish Oaks.
His mount stumbled coming out of the stalls which led to her saddle slipping right back. Yet, such is the balance that O’Brien possesses, he managed to ride a very strong race from the saddle to finish a close second despite his tack being so compromised. Indeed, such was the poise he showed, very few observers, either amateur or professional noticed anything was amiss at the time.
It is a sad reality that if the likes of Ryan Moore had performed a similar feat in such a high-profile race, the media and public alike would have gone into overdrive in their praise of it. Unfortunately, many seem incapable of looking beyond their own biases and judging talent on its merits.
It Can Be Done – The Second Edition
Frustrated by the stigma attached to betting in mainstream society, as well as the low regard that many hold Irish horse racing in as a betting medium, racing journalist Kevin Blake puts his neck on the line and sets out to knock these two proverbial birds with one literary stone in his book It Can Be Done.
Kevin’s unusual mix of professional experience as both a form analyst and assistant trainer has led to him having many thought-provoking theories on racing which he shares throughout the book. In particular, his controversial and informed views on the value of inside information, his rejection of each-way betting and forthright assessments of the psychological requirements to be a successful punter have provoked much debate and discussion.
All his theories and methodologies are then put to the test as Kevin describes in detail each and every bet (fully verified) he placed during the 2013 Irish flat season and the thinking behind them. Follow him on the high-stakes ups and downs as he goes through both the hottest and coldest runs of form of his betting life in a rollercoaster season that encapsulates the mental challenge that serious betting presents.
Now fully updated with 6,000 words of new content that addresses the most talked-about aspects of the first edition of the book, it can be ordered here:
http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=4593&cid=5
Blake’s Blog: Change In The Air For Betting Tax?
THERE is a momentum gathering behind the proposal to increase betting tax in Ireland and that this charge should be passed on to the punter. This topic should really should be generating more comment from anyone with an interest in betting.
The newly-formed Alliance For Racing has been proposing an increase in the tax from 1% to 2.5% and last week in the Dáil, the chairman of Horse Racing Ireland, Joe Keeling, called for a tax increase, adding that it should be seen as a duty and not a tax and that the betting customer should pay it.
Such a change would have a very significant impact on the day-to-day dealings of the betting public, bringing an end to what history is likely to view as the greatest-ever period for the Irish betting public, the better part of a decade during which they didn’t have to pay any tax on their stakes or winnings.
I have discussed this issue with many different people from many different interest groups in recent months and the case for increasing betting tax is a compelling one. The Irish are world-class when it comes to horse racing, but our industry is run on a relative shoestring budget that is dictated by the generosity of our Government and the size of which is uncertain from year-to-year.
This is unquestionably an unsatisfactory situation and if the money to finance our industry to an appropriate level can be generated in a fair manner from within the industry, as it is in the vast majority of racing nations, that would only be a good thing.
That said, there aren’t many punters who would be happy to return to the days of paying tax on their bets, be it on stakes or winnings, and convincing them that is a fair solution or even being able to enforce such a tax when tax-free betting remains in Britain would be a serious challenge. The best chance that those proposing such changes would have of getting such agreement/compliance would be to engage with the people they are proposing to tax, the betting public. Unfortunately, the betting public remain the only major interest group in the racing industry that do not have an organisation dedicated to representing their interests and to put forward their views.
The closest thing that the betting public have to official representation in the industry is the Racegoers Consultative Forum (RCF) which was established as a requirement of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001 "for the purpose of consultations relating to the operations of HRI in the context of developments of desired developments in the horseracing industry generally as they affect the racegoer or service or facility user".
The RCF is due to make a submission to the Joint Oireachtas Committee in relation to the Horse Racing Ireland (Amendment) Bill 2014 on September 16th, so it will be very interesting indeed to see if they discuss the many issues relating to the interests of the betting public that the Bill raises or simply stick to the interests of non-betting racegoers. If the latter proves to be the case, the time may have come for something to be done to give the betting public the official representation that it needs and deserves in the industry.
New Track At Ballinrobe An Excellent Addition
Having been impressed with Sligo on my first visit there in a while last week, on Monday I made the not-quite-so-long trip to Ballinrobe for the first time this year, primarily to have a good look at the new track that they opened for the first time last month.
It has very much been a long-term project for the team at Ballinrobe, one that stretches back a decade and involved the moving of an estimated one million tonnes of fill to turn what was part of a golf course into part of a racetrack, but the result will very much change the entire nature of racing at Ballinrobe. What was once a tight track will no longer be a tight track on the occasions when the new extension is used.
There is great width there and, barring a reasonably steep rise at the entrance to the new track, the inclines are steady and inviting. It is an excellent addition to the track and one would hope that their hard work is rewarded by them being given better class of races, as I suspect there won’t be too many trainers who would have a problem with running a decent horse around the new track.
In terms of the overall racing experience at Ballinrobe, in common with the likes of Sligo, Downpatrick and Down Royal, they are really putting in the effort to give their customers a good experience. Everything is clean and new looking, the buildings are spacious with plenty of seating and the viewing from the stand remains as good as ever. The layout of the track is conducive to creating a lively atmosphere and it was well supported on the Monday evening that I attended. The facilities for the professionals were also more than satisfactory, with the jockeys room/sauna being well up to scratch.
In short, it is a lovely place to spend an evening at the races and again, plenty of more high-profile tracks could learn plenty from how these smaller tracks are treating their customers.
Ride Of The Week
It has been discussed in this space before that Joseph O’Brien seems destined to be the most underappreciated rider of his generation due to the fact his father trains most of the winners he rides, but on Saturday he showcased his riding talents with a remarkable display of balance and riding skill on Tapestry in the Darley Irish Oaks.
His mount stumbled coming out of the stalls which led to her saddle slipping right back. Yet, such is the balance that O’Brien possesses, he managed to ride a very strong race from the saddle to finish a close second despite his tack being so compromised. Indeed, such was the poise he showed, very few observers, either amateur or professional noticed anything was amiss at the time.
It is a sad reality that if the likes of Ryan Moore had performed a similar feat in such a high-profile race, the media and public alike would have gone into overdrive in their praise of it. Unfortunately, many seem incapable of looking beyond their own biases and judging talent on its merits.
It Can Be Done – The Second Edition
Frustrated by the stigma attached to betting in mainstream society, as well as the low regard that many hold Irish horse racing in as a betting medium, racing journalist Kevin Blake puts his neck on the line and sets out to knock these two proverbial birds with one literary stone in his book It Can Be Done.
Kevin’s unusual mix of professional experience as both a form analyst and assistant trainer has led to him having many thought-provoking theories on racing which he shares throughout the book. In particular, his controversial and informed views on the value of inside information, his rejection of each-way betting and forthright assessments of the psychological requirements to be a successful punter have provoked much debate and discussion.
All his theories and methodologies are then put to the test as Kevin describes in detail each and every bet (fully verified) he placed during the 2013 Irish flat season and the thinking behind them. Follow him on the high-stakes ups and downs as he goes through both the hottest and coldest runs of form of his betting life in a rollercoaster season that encapsulates the mental challenge that serious betting presents.
Now fully updated with 6,000 words of new content that addresses the most talked-about aspects of the first edition of the book, it can be ordered here:
so if your havng a ton on a horse you have to be rooting around your pocket for 2.50euro?!!?..theres no a hope in hell of 99% of punters doing that.itl be the death knell of it.
the shops are becoming full of betting addicts who have as much interest in Paddy Park or Millersfield as they do in the best races at York Or Ascot today....that's the monster Spoils and other bookies are creating
From what i have heard the 3% tax will apply to all sports betting in high street betting shops,and any form of internet betting including betting exchanges.The on-course betting ring will be exempt from this and will stay tax free.I am an average punter and have had the pleasure of been knocked back on bets, and internet accounts limited to pennies or closed by these high street crooks, like many on here.I went racing a lot at one time but very seldom now.I would have no problem going to the track to do my betting, As a saving of 3% tax over a year on my bets can amount to plenty.As mentioned above the racecourses will dramatically have to improve facilities and reduce admission prices if they think they will entice punters back to their tracks.
When I read this piece earlier in the week I was afraid that Kevin was going "native" but, rather than going along with the industry insiders advocating an increase in betting tax I'm pleased to see he is holding his counsel until matters develop further.
The "Alliance For Racing" seems a rather strange hybrid that matches almost exactly the representation on the board of HRI. No public criticism of HRI efforts to secure racing's finances so what's the point of another toothless organisation?
The last contribution from the Racegoers' Consultative Forum to public debate was a report from 2006 and little has been heard from it since. It's merely an extension of the HRI PR department and has no teeth. The fact that its chaired by the stable staff representative (or was?) and reports to the head of "morketing" tells its own story.
Racing has no real "voice" that reflects what the punter thinks or wants from racing. It could be the head of Tote Ireland but he's anonymous, it could be a Kevin Smith-type campaigner but none exists and they didn't want him when he did, it could be a Minister's nominee but no Minister understands the game, it could be a HRI representative but they are all too busy defending their own patch using the mantra "exchequer funding".
The mooted betting tax increase is interesting in that one presumes it is expected to raise racing funds regardless of whether the bet is on football or a dwindling racing market. As I've said ad nauseum the offshore tax proposal is a nonsense and will never raise anything of note. Raising money for horse racing's funding is a very intricate business but can be a made a little more politically palatable if a fair share of tax/funds is raised from within the industry itself.
My own suggestions, some serious, some more frivolous, are :
Tax corporate bookmaking profits at 25% - millions raised at the stroke of a pen and a fair return for certain misery imposed (post office robberies anyone?)
Consider a windfall profits tax. Very controversial I know but the game is again awash with huge amounts of international cash at present (previously Dubai, now Qatar and the Far East) and very little finds its way to funding racing. Are there options here? Someone can sell/buy a horse at Goffs for €6m yet there is no consequential benefit to the fundamental funding of the game?
Weatherbys operate the stud book on a not-for-profit basis with all funds, supposedly, redirected to racing. This is good in principle although they seem reluctant to spend a lot of the earnings judging from increased cash holdings every year. Are there other similar options here? The Aga Khan gave a €5m private donation to the Turf Club, for example, and the money was entirely wasted. Come to think of it should all Turf Club private members' surpluses be devoted to racing? The Turf Club Rockingham or Turf Club Tyros Stakes?
The EBF operates a surplus fund (raised a s alevy of stallion masters) that is "additional" to exchequer funding and controlled by a few elites. Make this part of the overall funding package administered by the ruling body and not a scheme based on whim and influence.
More transparency from the accounts of all racecourses (including the batch run by HRI), the Tote and Irish Thoroughbred marketing and lets see where our money goes. How profitable are these businesses and how inefficient might they be?
The foal levy helps to fund ITM, the Equine Centre and the Breeders' Association. What other "self help" funding might be worth considering? for example, Irish breeders receive an Irish VAT refund for selling their stock in the UK -could part of this be available to pay racings' costs?
No sign of the cost stream-lining "demanded" by Minister Coveney who's love-in with racing's great and good has waned. How much is being wasted every year from this internecine war?
TV rights are coveted jealously by the racecourses and not a cent finds its way to prize money. Racecourses in the UK are expected to part fund prize money, why not here?
Have racecourses retained any surpluses from supplementary entries that were never returned to the prize fund?
Racecourses are under no obligation to find sponsors (or so it seems to me)-penalise/reward the losers and achievers.
How about allowing racecourses run their own Totes a la Ripon and Chester? The dozy old Tote hasn't performed here for decades how about a little shake up?
Maybe when the above and any number other matters are addressed the punter could be asked politely for a greater contribution???
The "Alliance For Racing" seems a rather strange hybrid that matches almost exactly the representation on the board of HRI. No public criticism of HRI efforts to secure racing's finances so what's the point of another toothless organisation?
The last contribution from the Racegoers' Consultative Forum to public debate was a report from 2006 and little has been heard from it since. It's merely an extension of the HRI PR department and has no teeth. The fact that its chaired by the stable staff representative (or was?) and reports to the head of "morketing" tells its own story.
Racing has no real "voice" that reflects what the punter thinks or wants from racing. It could be the head of Tote Ireland but he's anonymous, it could be a Kevin Smith-type campaigner but none exists and they didn't want him when he did, it could be a Minister's nominee but no Minister understands the game, it could be a HRI representative but they are all too busy defending their own patch using the mantra "exchequer funding".
The mooted betting tax increase is interesting in that one presumes it is expected to raise racing funds regardless of whether the bet is on football or a dwindling racing market. As I've said ad nauseum the offshore tax proposal is a nonsense and will never raise anything of note. Raising money for horse racing's funding is a very intricate business but can be a made a little more politically palatable if a fair share of tax/funds is raised from within the industry itself.
My own suggestions, some serious, some more frivolous, are :
Tax corporate bookmaking profits at 25% - millions raised at the stroke of a pen and a fair return for certain misery imposed (post office robberies anyone?)
Consider a windfall profits tax. Very controversial I know but the game is again awash with huge amounts of international cash at present (previously Dubai, now Qatar and the Far East) and very little finds its way to funding racing. Are there options here? Someone can sell/buy a horse at Goffs for €6m yet there is no consequential benefit to the fundamental funding of the game?
Weatherbys operate the stud book on a not-for-profit basis with all funds, supposedly, redirected to racing. This is good in principle although they seem reluctant to spend a lot of the earnings judging from increased cash holdings every year. Are there other similar options here? The Aga Khan gave a €5m private donation to the Turf Club, for example, and the money was entirely wasted. Come to think of it should all Turf Club private members' surpluses be devoted to racing? The Turf Club Rockingham or Turf Club Tyros Stakes?
The EBF operates a surplus fund (raised a s alevy of stallion masters) that is "additional" to exchequer funding and controlled by a few elites. Make this part of the overall funding package administered by the ruling body and not a scheme based on whim and influence.
More transparency from the accounts of all racecourses (including the batch run by HRI), the Tote and Irish Thoroughbred marketing and lets see where our money goes. How profitable are these businesses and how inefficient might they be?
The foal levy helps to fund ITM, the Equine Centre and the Breeders' Association. What other "self help" funding might be worth considering? for example, Irish breeders receive an Irish VAT refund for selling their stock in the UK -could part of this be available to pay racings' costs?
No sign of the cost stream-lining "demanded" by Minister Coveney who's love-in with racing's great and good has waned. How much is being wasted every year from this internecine war?
TV rights are coveted jealously by the racecourses and not a cent finds its way to prize money. Racecourses in the UK are expected to part fund prize money, why not here?
Have racecourses retained any surpluses from supplementary entries that were never returned to the prize fund?
Racecourses are under no obligation to find sponsors (or so it seems to me)-penalise/reward the losers and achievers.
How about allowing racecourses run their own Totes a la Ripon and Chester? The dozy old Tote hasn't performed here for decades how about a little shake up?
Maybe when the above and any number other matters are addressed the punter could be asked politely for a greater contribution???
The fact is the punter has always paid.
We are taxed on everything seems crazy that a vice has become exempt.
Kavvie thinks this will tip punters over but we know that to be untrue,they paid tax before and seem to have no problem paying as high as 5 percent on here.
We are taxed on everything seems crazy that a vice has become exempt.
Kavvie thinks this will tip punters over but we know that to be untrue,they paid tax before and seem to have no problem paying as high as 5 percent on here.
wildman it was actually 10% at one time...usta be funny the amount of non compliance of it.there wernt as many big firms 30 yr ago.mostly indos.if you were betting a tenner or more you were getting on tax free.id say i never got a "stamped" docket for years...except when we went to a strange town...people are so pissed of with the big firms now that i really feel it would be so strange to the casual punter that they would just stop.theres too many counter attractions these day in comparason to years ago when tax was paid.
It was 20 percent thirty years ago,which caused the evasion.
The clown that brought that in was A Nenagh man Michael OKennedy,he doubled betting tax,went to 20 percent off course and 10 percent on course,had to then change the law as he hadn't the power to double the on course.
The clown that brought that in was A Nenagh man Michael OKennedy,he doubled betting tax,went to 20 percent off course and 10 percent on course,had to then change the law as he hadn't the power to double the on course.
your right..it was 20...i wasnt paying it...jeez 20 to have a score bet...and it was 10 on course..
For two reasons it is not comparing like with like to state that punters pay 5% on here.Firstly it is a commission on winning bets that is paid on here and the comparative tax rate is determined by the punters average winning price.Therefore a punter who has 100 bets at 2.00 should theoretically win 50 times and therefore pay tax at the rate of 2.5% on turnover.For punters with longer priced selections the comparative rate will be less.
The other reason is that punters are betting into a 100% book on here whereas with traditional bookmakers there percentages can vary from 105% or so to 150% plus.Paying 5% on winning bets is very often better than 0% in a bigger % book.
While punters are compared by wildman to not paying tax on a vice it should not be forgotten that the vast majority are losers and are therefore paying for their vice by their losses.
The other reason is that punters are betting into a 100% book on here whereas with traditional bookmakers there percentages can vary from 105% or so to 150% plus.Paying 5% on winning bets is very often better than 0% in a bigger % book.
While punters are compared by wildman to not paying tax on a vice it should not be forgotten that the vast majority are losers and are therefore paying for their vice by their losses.
Nearly everything we do is subject to some form of tax whether its VAT or excise just seems unusual that betting incurs no tax whatsoever.
These percentages being quoted are theoretical but the five percent deduction is real and operates in a similar way to the old betting tax.
Some of us may have thought we were betting into a 117 percent book in the first yesterday but we were actually betting into an 84 percent book.
These percentages being quoted are theoretical but the five percent deduction is real and operates in a similar way to the old betting tax.
Some of us may have thought we were betting into a 117 percent book in the first yesterday but we were actually betting into an 84 percent book.
At what time was the old betting tax only charged on winners?
You had the option to pay the tax up front or pay on your winnings.
It was always on your winnings on course although I'm sure the satchel men would have preferred the punters to pay the tax on.
It was always on your winnings on course although I'm sure the satchel men would have preferred the punters to pay the tax on.
I'm betting over the best part of 40 years and don't recall it.Then again I don't think I was paying any tax back then!
The 5% commission does not operate in the same manner as the old betting tax.If you have a winner here you pay commission on the winnings.Therefore €100 at 2.0 wins 100 and you pay €5.In the old system you paid the tax on the total returns not the winnings i.e. on the €200.My figures are not theoretical and your initial comparison is totally incorrect.
In your argument to dismiss my valid point on the % book you have resorted to a totally irrelevant point based on a trait..aftertiming..which you are rightly not slow to ridicule others for.Unless you can prove that you took advantage of the so called 84% book I think we can safely say that the book was 117% at the time bets are placed...before the race.
In your argument to dismiss my valid point on the % book you have resorted to a totally irrelevant point based on a trait..aftertiming..which you are rightly not slow to ridicule others for.Unless you can prove that you took advantage of the so called 84% book I think we can safely say that the book was 117% at the time bets are placed...before the race.
I am not dismissing your point at all,its a valid one I was just making the comment that punters accept deductions here but as they don't consider it tax they don't seem to mind.
You are also correct in assuming I didn't avail of the theoretical percentage in the punters favour as per usual I didn't know til after the event.
I wasn't criticising you in anyway I was just adding to the discussion.
You are also correct in assuming I didn't avail of the theoretical percentage in the punters favour as per usual I didn't know til after the event.
I wasn't criticising you in anyway I was just adding to the discussion.
Fair enough.I think the reason punters pay the commission on here is because of the % book being in their favour.It gives the punter a chance of profit/break even.The average punter has no chance with the bookmakers margin and if you charge the punter tax on top his money will just run out sooner.There are possibilities of making money with bookmakers but you will find yourself restricted very quickly if you do.
Put quite simply if there is a tax levied on punters I for one will be giving the game up.
Put quite simply if there is a tax levied on punters I for one will be giving the game up.
You are correct in arguing your corner and naturally you don't want to lose your edge but most punters don't think that way,which is probably why they are asked to pay all the time.
Royal Academy has some interesting points on funding for racing,tax seems the easiest but there are other means.
Royal Academy has some interesting points on funding for racing,tax seems the easiest but there are other means.
The books would hardly absorb the extra 1.5%,hard to blame them and would probably result in even tighter books. I can't see the fairness of the tax being implemented on events outside Ireland if the tax is in response to raising revenue for Irish racing.
Possibilities of decent tote pools during Galway gone down the drain as no resolve as yet between BF and toteie. Not too many going to join their site but the platform for multi country involvement in it gone to waste.
I understand that Tolmi on a matter of principle alone,why pay to have a bet when it is your money you are risking.
Possibilities of decent tote pools during Galway gone down the drain as no resolve as yet between BF and toteie. Not too many going to join their site but the platform for multi country involvement in it gone to waste.
I understand that Tolmi on a matter of principle alone,why pay to have a bet when it is your money you are risking.
Every foal , yearling , horse in training sold , should pay a percentage maybe 1% ..That would be sure to bring in a healthy amount ..As has been said already , punters are sick to the teeth of paying for something where they have no say in how THEIR money is spent...
pa, if i'm correct in my assumptions the Tote guaranteed €200k in the Pick6 yesterday in a pool that wasn't won and just €36k is carried forward today into a €100k guarantee. The Tote were facing a loss of well over €100k if the pool had been won. There must have been some stress in Ballymany yesterday when the bets were in.
Every short-priced fav so far has returned the usual miserly 1/50 odds. This business seems to survive in spite of itself. Thank god for dozy punters.
Every short-priced fav so far has returned the usual miserly 1/50 odds. This business seems to survive in spite of itself. Thank god for dozy punters.
You would be way more knowledgeable than me in regards the workings of it R A,I haven,t looked at a tote return in ages,that jackpot stunt seems to me to be a half measure of desperation,not ideal to be putting itself in that position. But then as i said before on here the money they were asking BF for their product was testimony to the height of the Celtic tiger and they were rightly told where to go. All in past however and something is better than nothing,a compromise should surely have been reached long before now.
Not sure i agree with the "dozy punters" anyone not getting a half fair return is only going to feel ripped off, dwindling it further over time.
Not sure i agree with the "dozy punters" anyone not getting a half fair return is only going to feel ripped off, dwindling it further over time.
Its a recurring theme to me ( definitely not a criticism) that people with a knowledge of form and betting markets always assume that others have the same in my experience they don't.
The vast majority of punters in Galway are recreational ones,they are relatively unaware of price differentials probably the main reason bookmakers pay huge sums for prominent pitches,these are the punters they want.
Its similar with the Tote punters,they just want a dividend.
Again with regards form most form men assume others know the form,they don't especially trainers and jockeys.
Trainers comment on the well being of their horses but they don't have the punters mindset,John Oxx and Willie Mullins the best examples.
The vast majority of punters in Galway are recreational ones,they are relatively unaware of price differentials probably the main reason bookmakers pay huge sums for prominent pitches,these are the punters they want.
Its similar with the Tote punters,they just want a dividend.
Again with regards form most form men assume others know the form,they don't especially trainers and jockeys.
Trainers comment on the well being of their horses but they don't have the punters mindset,John Oxx and Willie Mullins the best examples.
we agree Wildman but what makes this all futile is that, knowing the Tote markets are very imperfect, you cannot rely on the machine to reward a bit of shrewdness-markets too illiquid, unpredictable and god knows what else. I think the 1/50 dividends are akin to larceny and it cant be pure coincidence they are all minimum returns-sneaking margin I expect and no accountability which is the real clincher for me.
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