Whistleblowers Are Informers

L O L    The irony

I don't get that.

Usual demands for an apology,all the media heaping praise I see a pattern here.

Bewigged gentlemen rubbing their hands,monster claim on the horizon.

so if there happened to be a whistleblower in the churches when they were abusing kids ye be dead against it?

There were just weren't called whistleblowers and they were doing it for the right reasons not one of them looked for compensation.

when i was growing up there was a man lived near us who was an informer.he was generally shunned by the people of the locality.these should be treated exactly the same.whistleblower is a fancy name for informer.they do it not because of any potential good deed but they want to be "important" in other peoples eyes.the same applies in the workplace.we all know "hangmen"im sure.ratting on your workmates for maybe a perceived pat on the back.

Having a pint there with a fella from Midleton last Saturday night,said this wan came into a local pub down there,the whole bar crossed their arms and it was either them or her and of course it was her that was asked to leave. The crime was whistleblowing to the dole to get her few pieces of silver.Whether or not you agree with the morality of someone getting a few bob extra for a bit of casual work isn,t really the point but wholly agree with the resulting ostracization she has caused to herself from within her community.

The attitude of the above contributor, Mr Lapsey, is partly responsible for why this country is beggared.

Whether or not you agree with the morality of someone getting a few bob extra for a bit of casual work isn,t really the point

Ah, yeah, shure the tax payer will keep coughing up anyway.  And with the dole so skimpy, shure you would nearly have to cheat in order to maintain a lifestyle.

Correct and well said Kitty Wells.

pa point is fair,..grassing someone for claiming more benefits than they are entitled too is a can of worms..i know of a woman who worked cleaning 16hrs a week..she got a xtra £60, on top of her £125 a fortnight, she was grassed and got 6wks in jail..i think that's disgusting...when there is no conternuerty, big companies don't pay their tax,s and rip off the state like rich people who do the same..but the poor are crucified for claiming more than they should..im not saying claiming more and working is right coz its not..but grasses..should remember..what goes around comes around..and personal circumstances are different..you don't know why the person does it (they may need too to survive) I mind my own business..and expect others to do the same..let the police or state agencies do what they are paid too do..not the public becoming agents for the state.

Kitty Wells, i would mind by own business rather than profiteering by inflicting "badness" on someone i knew.

^^ couple of n'er do wells.

Its a historical thing.

Any people living under another's rule will have a healthy disrespect for their laws.will do what he can to circumvent those laws.

We were Independant for a while ( gave it away ) but still never quite lost that idea that the laws were to be treated with suspicion.

The history of informing in Ireland is seared deep in our psyche.

Ozymandius in your haste to harry and hassle Pa Lapsy you miss the point of his post.
He doesn't condone dole fraud or any other fraud its the Gippo Nolan angle he is illustrating,explaining something deep down in the Irish psyche.

I wouldn't be going down the dole fraud road if I were you as this seems to me to be the preserve of compensation seekers and immigrants.
The experts in this field come from West Africa

there a few things I hate in this world,,cowards, grasses,ponces,hypocrites,..hey oz..no wonder I got that smell off you...I can forget a face..but I can never forget a smell..

D`OZY how would you feel if someone reported you and you lost ALL your various benefits? ohh sorry you never leave the flat or indeed work so there is no danger of this ever happening,,,,,,

pa point is fair,..grassing someone for claiming more benefits than they are entitled too is a can of worms..i know of a woman who worked cleaning 16hrs a week..she got a xtra £60, on top of her £125 a fortnight, she was grassed and got 6wks in jail..i think that's disgusting...when there is no conternuerty, big companies don't pay their tax,s and rip off the state like rich people who do the same..but the poor are crucified for claiming more than they should..im not saying claiming more and working is right coz its not..but grasses..should remember..what goes around comes around..and personal circumstances are different..you don't know why the person does it (they may need too to survive) I mind my own business..and expect others to do the same..let the police or state agencies do what they are paid too do..not the public becoming agents for the state.


Spot on Tony!!

thread has gone a bit bizarre, if someone is falsely claiming benefits (or working while claiming jobseekers pay) and someone finds out and reports them and they lose their benefits well tough fkin sheet if you ask me and why the person reporting them is seen in a bad light is beyond me, they're defrauding the country (taxpayers) ffs

You have changed your tune,on other threads you have been supporting compensation seekers,generally the ones with high powered legal teams demanding six figure sums.

Not a murmur about the ripping of charities by politicians,not a murmur about bankers immoral pay scales,not a murmur about all these quangos populated by party hacks getting paid for nothing,not a murmur about the legal profession having different payment scales when they manage to get the government on the hook,not a murmur about pensions being paid to people in their forties who are working in other high pid jobs.

However some ordinary unfortunate digs some old lady's garden whilst on the dole and they want the book thrown at him.

I always stick up for the state,I refuse to claim for stuff I am told I am entitled to but my opinion is slowly changing.

Wildman would have been against someone stopping the child abuse by the catholic church so, you can't make it up about this fool !!!!

somebody seeking compensation for a legitimate reason is hardly the same as someone fraudently claiming benefits - they're hardly comparable

and i have not changed my tune, i am of the opinion and always have been that those cheating the system are wrong uns

Welcome back Premier,the reason i would look upon them in a "bad light" in this case is that it has nothing to do with the womans social conscience so to speak and only her direct financial gain by shopping them and collecting the reward by the department of social welfare.
I,m not for one second and haven,t been earlier in the thread despite what was said by a couple of posters advocating welfare fraud and am against wholly a consious effort to deceive the welfare system,however an infrequent cash in hand job is a different matter.
Also agree with Tony,s post.

Most compensation claims are bogus,all are exaggerated.

The one poster on here who admitted being on the dole here was Rocketfingers,nothing wrong with that but he was claiming to " bet in sums that would give the forum a headache " and claiming to be a professional punter.

I have no probs with say pro gamblers topping up their salary with some govt funds and this money goes back into the economy, usually, mate of mine used to do it and he used to bring his family to the south of France for a month during the summer.

You may have no problems with that deception but I have,you have your own money and plenty of it if ye can afford to holiday for months in France.

Much as I condemn your fraudulent behaviour I wouldn't report you and certainly wouldn't look for some fee for so doing.

peckerdunne
24 Mar 14 09:29
Joined:
26 Apr 12
| Topic/replies: 5,335 | Blogger: peckerdunne's blog
L O L    The iron

You dont get this. I am becoming confused. You still appear to me to post with alot of contradiction and so it seems you want your cake and to eat it regularly.
Its just my view.

Not a murmur about the ripping of charities by politicians,not a murmur about bankers immoral pay scales,not a murmur about all these quangos populated by party hacks getting paid for nothing,not a murmur about the legal profession having different payment scales when they manage to get the government on the hook,not a murmur about pensions being paid to people in their forties who are working in other high pid jobs.

You stated the above.

But corruption in the Gardai should go unreported.

Keep putting up threads of the same tone but dont see the irony.

I see the irony of that personally.

I don't think Garda corruption should be tolerated.

My argument is the way the media suddenly declare the two in this case to be saintly without a comment on the fact that both are demanding large swathes of cash in compensation.

The more i think about it the more offensive i find it.

All this balony about reporting work colleagues is just a smoke screen.

These guys are getting pints in the pub, positions in the GAA and the EXCHEQUER is loseing revenue as a result thus defrauding the TAX PAYER.

These guys are a the top of the force and should be outed for what is a breach of duty and interfering with the course of the law and justice.

Justice is what you often post about or the lack of it.

Wildman

If that is the case why did you not put up a thread with the word MEDIA in it, surely the TOPIC should be highlighted within the heading.

These guys did not begin with an incentive in mind via compensation.
That is blatantly obvious.

You should say what you mean about the media without SLURRING the character of people you most likely have never met in your life.

I question their motives.

Not a sound out of them for years but when things go against them work wise they suddenly develop a conscience and a desire for compensation.

I agree with you Borneo about it being about 'The National Pysche'.

For centuries under Crown Rule, any breaking of law or stroke pulling was lauded by the community.  Shure wasn't it great to get one over on them etc. etc.

Problem is that we now have self-governance.  So all the stroke pulling and bypassing rules and regulations ultimately is no longer brave or clever, it is merely stealing from our own pockets.

That woman in Midleton should be put on a pedestal and given positive national recognition.  Those c nuts in the pub shunning here are likely on the dole themelves.  Go figure.

It's time we grew up and started doing the right thing.  Don't be moaning about bankers and politicians pulling strokes if you are going to let the same sh1te go unchecked in your own community.

Lapsy and Scouse Tony are the type of backward wh0res who would elect the local gobsh1te as TD because he would be a great man for filling local potholes rather than chose the best and most qualified candidate who would be good for the country. 

Time for the people to set the example and do the right thing.

D`OZY how much benefits do you fraudulently currently claim from the state,id guess,housing,incapacity an carers allowance for you nurse to clean your soiled kacks on a daily basis,nice gig if ye can get it (the claiming not cleaning dozys cecks)

I have never received a single benefit from the State in my life, Dickie.

To be fair I haven't made a huge tax contribution there either as have always worked elsewhere.

The one exception to the benefits recieved, I suppose, is my own Children Allowance. My Dear Mamma spent not a penny of it, saved it and gave it to me when I was 18..or 21...whenever the state stopped paying it, I can't remember.

Come on Ozymandius you know Pa Lapsy was against her being paid,nothing else.

Your other point about it being time for us to move away from these old ideas is correct but this has been overtaken by time,we have handed over our sovereignty to the EU so we will be back pulling a few strokes.

If the legislators pilfer the system,if the ruling elite milk the system its hard to expect the ordinary citizen to behave in a moral fashion ( he still should though )

Arthur Griffith a true patriot refused a salary from the state because he said the state is in its infancy and can't afford it.

Your wrongly attributing ideas to Tony and Pa Lapsy are unworthy of you,your name calling similarly wrong.

Whatever you say D,ozy(sorry i had to plagiarise that),would she do it if she wasn,t getting a few bob reward off the department? Not a chance,put her up on a pedestal if you want.

Ozymandius your last post if true is a perfect example of why children's allowance should be mean tested.

The purpose of children's allowance was to help in the upkeep of the child,your mother obviously didnt need it but it certainly wasn't for some wealthy kid to collect a lump sum and swan off on some expensive holiday.

ok, Borneo, so if there is no financial incentive involved, are you saying Pa is all in favour of shopping offenders?  That's not the way it came across to me.

Inevitably the likes of Dickie and Scouse Tony resort to gleefully calling one a grass. Neither posses the moral fibre or intelligence to see the bigger picture and take a principled stand.  Frankly theirs is the mentality of the school playground, they haven't evolved much beyond it.

Borneo, I couldn't agree more that Children's Allownce should be means tested...of course it should.

Pa, lets say there was no financial incentive and she did it out of Patriotism or a belief in ding the right thing.  Do you support her then or do you call her a grass?

who or what funds your losing punting and endless hours,days and months on here?

I am not a big winner, nor do I lose, Dickie.   I am, thankfully, comfortably off, this is not the place to reveal anything more personal than that.

Ozymandius how many times have I complained about compensation seekers,complained about rapacious lawyers fleecing the state,plenty.

I even witnessed a fraudulent claim recently,yet I couldn't bring myself to report that individual.

Something deep down won't let me,it may appear a bit hypocritical but its something I can't explain.

She done it for the money Ozy nothing else,said earlier in the thread it wasn,t because of a social conscience.

Kindly answer the hypothetical question, Pa.

I understand completely what you are saying, Borneo....I would be the same...and it is hugely hypocritical but deep down we are conditioned not to grass.  In theory  I am all for it, in practice.....

It is a hypothetical question and being honest i,m not sure i do, in the case of a greedy individual i would support her,in the case of someone with say a young family trying to get an extra few bob in the short term,i,m not sure i do. While the fraud is wrong there could be cases where it is understandable.

Ozymandius now you should understand Pa Lapsy position.

I don't.

lapsy are u talking about the grass or the woman convicted?  The grass, right?

Pa Lapsy is saying what we are both saying,against the fraud but can't bring himself to report it or support someone who gets paid for reporting.

I am saying I do support the woman in Middleton  I admire her for being morally stronger than I might have been.  Even if she was solely motivated by the financial reward, at the end of the day she has done the morally correct thing.

We need more like her.

I have a good idea she might be on the market if you are interested.

Our new found rapport didn't last long.

The three of us agree the fraud was wrong,agree we wouldn't report but we disagree in Ozymandius support for the paid informer.

The fact that she is paid or not is irrelevat to me.

What matters is that she did the right thing.  We can only guess as to her motives.  And any the financial rewards are there to incentivise people to do the right thing.  If they succeed, so be it.

For all we know, Borneo, perhaps she is merely less hypocrical than either of us.

Has the OP blown the whistle on whistle blowers, and therefore by his own definition he himself; is an informer.

Just back from the match and I was talking to a friend of mine who is a welfare inspector , and having read this thread I'd become interested in peoples views   over a cup of tea I asked him the question , do people get paid for reporting on those who work while on the dole ...Answer ...NO....

It's too late Wonks.  Pa Lapsy has already burnt her at the stake.

And received the Freedom of Midleton for having done so.

all through this thread oz shows his colours..he says he is comfortably off..good for him..there are a lot of people who are not..who cannot work or get work, who rely on the state..for whatever reason..there are the wrong uns,..who take advantage..but imo they are a minimum and are blown up by the state..to justify the present cuts to welfare budget and calling all claimants workshy etc..over here the actual loss to the exchequer due to fraud or error is 2% of the budget!..once again it is blown up that all kinds are at it..when the figures show they are not..but back to oz..he is the type that would have scabbed a strike! grass on his mates..and run away when his country needed him..

28,022 reports of welfare fraud were made in 2012 (the most recent I can find) which suggests we have become a Nation of Informants, €700 million of savings have been made through the targeting of fraud and clerical errors in that same year. It's a great saving.

Scouse Ton, or should I say welfare Tony, do try and play the ball not the man.

Scouse Tony, or should I say welfare Tony, do try and play the ball not the man.

I may have highlighted you as possibly the worst Tipster the Irish forum has ever seen, frankly I see that as a great public service, please don't take out your limitations in this regard on me, personally.

there you go again..making accusations that have no basis in fact or truth..firstly I have no income from the state...I have always supported myself..working..and my wits...and you figures are all wrong..unlike yourself..some of us were not left money by MUMMYto look after us..i left school @15 and was working 3wks later on a ship..and was at sea for along enough..
rich and the others have you nailed on....you are known to be a liar, amongst other things..and as ive said before you can tell a man from the company he keeps..says it all about you..

Never once lied on here you ignorant Sasenach c nut.

An if you rare relying on your wits to support you, may God help you.

Now f**k off and randomly  pick some unraced nag in the bumper.

oooh lost big boy..you lied were you were from?..live in Ireland spain over here..don't blame me for your reputation...

Despite not residing in ROI, I still say 'down here' when speaking to people from NI.  Its a turn of phrase, not an expression of my current location.  I used the expression 'down here' in a PM to Norn only last week.  It is not literal.

I have never lied on here.   Do not ever suggest otherwise again.

ofcourse..anything you say..i want bother you again....

Thank you.

A good example there of how the ragamuffins below deck need to be spoken firmly to on occasion.  Just to re-establish the natural order of things.

At Ease.

PEAR SHAPED NOW.........not much class on display

Thanks to the whistleblower or scumbag informer if you prefer, the top man is gone and under the weight of more skulldugery. Just how our great nation should be proud of these compensation seeking self indulging bad men gone good.

The whole country is corrupt to the core but lets concentrate on the little minded people who stand up to the filth from the comfort of our keyboard but refuse at the same time to put ourselves on the line for some inexplicable reason.Not in my trench thanks very much.

he deserved to go the rotten brass neck......he was past his compulsory retirement age anyway......hes not much of a loss anyway......what guard would be.....was there ever an Irish guard with a brain....answer no......

Your missing the point.

He didnt go for any action of his,he went because of something he thought.

the bottom line is hes not going to be missed.....just another thick head .....the only difference being he has for some unknown reason.....a few stars on his shoulder.....history has shown that Irish guards wouldn't catch a cold.....look at the sophie du plantier case.....the cases with the missing girls all over the midlands......my dog knows who did those murders....and still they couldn't get a conviction.....

He won't be missed but look who the next one is going to be.

She is from the Human Resource department,which means never did any police work in her life,

This is symbolism at its worst.

its not going to matter who's in charge is it really......who cares....its not as if we are going to be better off or worse off whoever the next incumbent is......

Wildman you are wrong.

He is gone for somethiing he did not say.

He did not Inform anyone of the whole scale corruption he resided over untill 40 yrs of his 41 had past.

More sweeping statements without facts.

You should apologise to the two men you have slandered.

if the Wildman was apologising for slander....he'd be here for a fortnight......he specialises in slander......some of the stuff he has said over the years here are downright shameful......and although he believes some of the nonsense himself......that's no excuse.....

Im learning all the time.I even feel a little sorry for him. He has one eye it seems and chooses to ignore relevant points that do not favour his point of view.


I think his mum did not give him enough love.

Enda said he had to give his appraisal and on that he was sacked. It had nothing to do with 'disgusting' at all.

Shatter apologised but Calnan has yet to do so. You should though.

Im gald i raised your dander but you should not make broad sweeping statements without the facts, and Wildman you are without all the facts and are only being influenced by whichever MEDIA you choose to avail off.

I wont lead you on, the truth is i am not high and mighty, i am not from a narrow minded small town mentality and have actually lived and worked happily with many other diverse communities.I was only debating some of the issues you raise for the sake of banter more than any moral standing.

I could not take any online views seriously because people just hide in that vacum and fail to reflect on themselves, what they say, and the full impact and implications of their meandering begrudgerry.

I could not give 2 fcuks to be honest what you think.I wont wish you anything but good health.

.... You have been Peckered..   

Its not clever either to be calling a serving member of the Gardai a thief. No doubt you have clear informed evidence to support that accusation.

I would most definitely call that slander. Do you not agree.

What the people in power might learn (but probably won't) is that the people are the power.
Bullying underlings does not wash.  Facts win out.
One gone, one to go.  If he doesn't go now, he will go in two years at the election.

he wont care.he will be laughing at the peole.big fat pension and lump sum and gone..

OK Wildman. Lets leave it at that. We shall move on amicably.

I never fall out with people over differing views.

I argue robustly actually enjoy the cut and thrust but once the argument is over its time for porter.

The truth always comes out in the end.

The eponymous whistleblower made 19 complaints against his Superintendent,all were unfounded.

Shatter and Callinan both exonerated.

And you are genuinely impressed by a report that blames young, inexperienced trainees and exonerates every single person of authority?

Your love of official Ireland knows no bounds.

We would still prefer to shoot whistle blowers in this country and toss them in a bog.

The only "justice" is this case is that the two exonerated individuals you mention got their just desserts and there is no way back for them.

How did they get their just desserts,they did nothing wrong.

I wouldn't be a supporter of Alan Shatter but the man was forced to resign when he had done nothing wrong.
He may have deserved it for crimes against literature but he was still wronged because of this cult of the crank.

I just hope those bewigged gentlemen are disappointed as compensation seems to be fading away.
Neither do I favour compensation for the two gentlemen wronged,ye were wronged ye are now exonerated,that's life.

From today's Examiner who've made a good attempt to summarise how McCabe's claims were handled in the report:

Most shocking and serious of all was the case involving Gerard McGrath, who savagely assaulted a female taxi driver in what Judge O’Higgins described as a “terrifying” attack in Cavan in April 2007, only to be charged with minor assault against DPP instructions.

That ensured he got bail and set in train a chain of devastating events. Within months, he attempted to abduct a five-year-old girl from her home in the middle of the night in Tipperary, and, despite being caught red-handed, was released, and, weeks later, murdered mother of two, Sylvia Roche-Kelly, in Limerick.

Judge O’Higgins lists 10 major failings in the handling of the case by Cavan gardaí alone, not least of which was the initial decision to charge McGrath with a Section 2 offence under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, which constitutes a minor assault, rather than the more serious Section 3 offence the DPP had sought.

The garda responsible in a subsequent report stated that the Section 2 charge was instructed by the DPP. He later said he couldn’t say why he put this in his report. “I typed it in error,” he told the commission.

This charge was meant to be reviewed by a sergeant but, Judge O’Higgins said: “as appears to have been the practice, it was not reviewed in any meaningful way. Rather the matter was clicked as reviewed in a superficial sense.”

McGrath was released on station bail, and got continuing bail when he appeared in court. Even when the charge was later upgraded to Section 3, there were no fresh bail proceedings.

When a garda from Tipperary investigating the abduction case contacted the station to inquire about McGrath, he said he was told the incident was a “dispute with a taxi driver”, so he had no idea of how serious it was, and did not have details to give to a judge when McGrath applied for, and was granted, bail in that jurisdiction. It was while on bail this time that he murdered Mrs Roche Kelly.

By the time the original assault case came to court in January 2008, McGrath was already under arrest for the abduction and murder. The taxi driver told the commission she got a call from a garda telling her she needn’t be in court that day as the case would not proceed.

It did and was concluded, without giving her a chance to give evidence or a victim impact statement. The garda who told her not to come to court told the commission he had done so on the instructions of Sgt McCabe, who was going to get the case moved to the circuit court.

Sgt McCabe denied this and the commission believed him, but did not hold with Sgt McCabe’s complaint that the claims were meant to discredit him. “It can not be safely said that there was a deliberate attempt to wrongly implicate Sgt McCabe,” Judge O’Higgins said.

“However, Sgt McCabe’s fears in that regard, at that time, were perfectly understandable.”

Maurice McCabe


The garda who made the claim did not explain it, saying only when he spoke to the victim, he relayed “what I presumed or assumed would have happened”.

Judge O’Higgins said the deficiencies in the case included the inappropriate charge brought against McGrath, communication failures, the failure to revisit bail when the charge was upgraded, the “inordinate delay” in furnishing a file to the DPP in the first place despite McGrath’s admission in a station interview of what he had done only hours after he had carried out the attack, the failure to keep the injured party properly informed of developments, and the failure to supervise the garda who had initially charged McGrath.

Judge O’Higgins said criticisms made of the Garda handling of the Tipperary case in a subsequent GSOC report was “unduly harsh” as he was “entitled to rely on what he was told”, which was that the incident in Cavan was a minor offence.

Sgt McCabe in his dossier said he felt that once the abduction and murder became known to his station, there was an urgent attempt to dispose of the assault case “as quickly as possible and at all costs”.

Judge O’Higgins said: “The commission can find no evidence to substantiate this complaint.”



Ye can make up ye're own minds as to the mountain McCabe had to scale.....

Some mountain.

The man was in dispute with his Superintendent.
He made 19 allegations against him,all were false

The handling of that case was deplorable however it should be noted that it generally doesn't matter how many objections the Gardai make judges give bail anyway.
This seems to have spread to judgements now in what appears to be a pursuit of a pay claim.

The systematic striping of the state by the legal profession has been going on for years,their two tier charging system the most egregious,it should be stopped forthwith.