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You've quoted on two different threads that their repective prices should be 1 million to one.....
Two questions
One.. will you actually be laying either of these beasts?
And two.. Can i have some of the 999/1 please if you consider that thery're both 1000000/1 shots
It can be a great place for opinions and debate but nothing worse than someone on here spouting shiote! Hope you can answer yes to at least one of those questions
Two questions
One.. will you actually be laying either of these beasts?
And two.. Can i have some of the 999/1 please if you consider that thery're both 1000000/1 shots
It can be a great place for opinions and debate but nothing worse than someone on here spouting shiote! Hope you can answer yes to at least one of those questions
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Goretski.......I cant lay our conor at a million to one because this place wont let me......every time I put in to lay it at a million......theres some idiot matching me at either 5.7 or 5.8......I want to give the punters the real price but it wont allow me.....
as for mount benbulben.....I assume that was an early april fools joke from barry Connell......saying he was running in the world hurdle......and that it was a weak race this year.......I cant lay that horse as I wouldn't have it on my conscience......that would be larceny and I wouldn't be comfortable with that......
as for mount benbulben.....I assume that was an early april fools joke from barry Connell......saying he was running in the world hurdle......and that it was a weak race this year.......I cant lay that horse as I wouldn't have it on my conscience......that would be larceny and I wouldn't be comfortable with that......
Good reply Paulie.
Though I do think that Our Conor has every chance. Jock obviously wont help, but Dessie will have the useless fu*ker schooled down to a tee as to what he is to do. He may win despite the jockey. He has very little to find with HF, and taking the following Into account, he has every chance.
Firstly,he produced his best performance as a juvenile at the track.
Secondly, HF has never looked as imperious there as at Leop.
Dessie knows where the lollipop is. Hardy Eustace was never cherry ripe until the day that mattered, OC is coming long the same way.
TNO is still the one to beat, but OC might just be the one to do it.
Mount Belbulben has no chance. End of.
Though I do think that Our Conor has every chance. Jock obviously wont help, but Dessie will have the useless fu*ker schooled down to a tee as to what he is to do. He may win despite the jockey. He has very little to find with HF, and taking the following Into account, he has every chance.
Firstly,he produced his best performance as a juvenile at the track.
Secondly, HF has never looked as imperious there as at Leop.
Dessie knows where the lollipop is. Hardy Eustace was never cherry ripe until the day that mattered, OC is coming long the same way.
TNO is still the one to beat, but OC might just be the one to do it.
Mount Belbulben has no chance. End of.
Callitascuit......doctors differ and patients die.....and all punters have different opinions.....I know by your posts that you are a realist and you know the game well.....you have given reasons why he has every chance....which is fair enough....and I will now give my honest opinion why he will not win.....
Now for arguments sake we will say that the winner will come from The New One Hurricane Fly Our Conor My tent and Jezki and assuming that Annie doesn't run and nothing else should have an earthly.......so that leaves five possibles.....
Firstly.....of those 5 our conor is the only one that has never ever run at this course......
Hurricane Fly has 2 champion hurdles won all the same......Our conor's 4yo form isn't worth a dollar either.....
Dessie Hughes is a competent trainer but nowhere near the force Mullins or Henderson is.....
I think myself its open enough.....the only one of the 5 that cannot win is Our conor.....because I cannot see any horse having a lot in hand.....and there is no way that Our Conor will have enough in reserve to overcome the fact that he has the worst rider by a mile of the big 5......there is no way he can win.....I don't fancy him to be even placed.....
Now for arguments sake we will say that the winner will come from The New One Hurricane Fly Our Conor My tent and Jezki and assuming that Annie doesn't run and nothing else should have an earthly.......so that leaves five possibles.....
Firstly.....of those 5 our conor is the only one that has never ever run at this course......
Hurricane Fly has 2 champion hurdles won all the same......Our conor's 4yo form isn't worth a dollar either.....
Dessie Hughes is a competent trainer but nowhere near the force Mullins or Henderson is.....
I think myself its open enough.....the only one of the 5 that cannot win is Our conor.....because I cannot see any horse having a lot in hand.....and there is no way that Our Conor will have enough in reserve to overcome the fact that he has the worst rider by a mile of the big 5......there is no way he can win.....I don't fancy him to be even placed.....
Don,t fancy Our Conor either though think DH is giving him every chance with his build up, a rotten race for a punter as there seem to be very little between TNO and MTOY,toss a coin between the two,possibly the Fly will again come up best of the Irish,the 2 English horses are very very good all the same.
The stayers as said somewhere else is i,m not sure that great.
Annie Power looking very good so far and could easily be a different league,think she,ll ought to stay but 21f is the max she has raced so far,just a bit of a worry.
Big Bucks/At Fishers Cross,both beat by rag Knockara Beau last time,BB came back from a lay off and not the right tactics from STD/Nicholls, AT Fishers Cross close up after 2 very poor runs before, question is Big Bucks gone and think that could be possible (Tony Martin did too at a preview the other night.
What else is there? Rule the World,think he should run well,More of that has a huge task on only his 5th run,Zarkander ought to be held by Annie Power,rest look average.
Its ifs and buts but Big Bucks gone andAnnie Power failing to see it out, they are fairly big ifs but possible,thats why i,m not totally dismissing Mount Benbulben.
The stayers as said somewhere else is i,m not sure that great.
Annie Power looking very good so far and could easily be a different league,think she,ll ought to stay but 21f is the max she has raced so far,just a bit of a worry.
Big Bucks/At Fishers Cross,both beat by rag Knockara Beau last time,BB came back from a lay off and not the right tactics from STD/Nicholls, AT Fishers Cross close up after 2 very poor runs before, question is Big Bucks gone and think that could be possible (Tony Martin did too at a preview the other night.
What else is there? Rule the World,think he should run well,More of that has a huge task on only his 5th run,Zarkander ought to be held by Annie Power,rest look average.
Its ifs and buts but Big Bucks gone andAnnie Power failing to see it out, they are fairly big ifs but possible,thats why i,m not totally dismissing Mount Benbulben.
" never ever run at this course "
Our Conor was fairly impressive in the Triumph.
The Leopardstown form is let down by the proximity of Captain Cee Bee and the amazing lack f effort from Jezki.
The race is a match between The New One and My Tent Or Yours.
Our Conor was fairly impressive in the Triumph.
The Leopardstown form is let down by the proximity of Captain Cee Bee and the amazing lack f effort from Jezki.
The race is a match between The New One and My Tent Or Yours.
I would say Jezki is the only one that cant win. He has consistently been found wanting at the top table, there is no reason why he will suddenly find enough in two weeks time to topple his 4 superiors.
I am a big HF fan. He has never got due recognition for his accomplishments. He doesn't look like a Champion Hurdler, but the records say different. But at Christmas, OC looked his equal between the last two. People said Jezki was unlucky. He wasn't, he was short of tactical speed. OC was short of a gallop.
In the Irish Champion, OC looked HFs superior until the last 150 yards, lack of pace to the race told, and also that Dessie knows that was not the one that matters. But improvement was shown, and no doubt there is more to come.
I cant see MTOY winning. He couldn't get past Champagne Fever last year, and I very much doubt he will be better than 3rd at best when he meets the cream this year. He would have been beaten by TNO at Kempton, albeit very narrowly, if TNO had jumped the last. And fans would surely be worried he didn't travel as far on the bridle as would have been expected. True, they pulled a long way clear of decent yardsticks off a slow gallop, but I cant see him beating TNO.
TNO has jumping issues for some, but I think he will be fine. He has an electric turn of foot, and for all that on paper you wonder where the pace is coming from, its a Champion Hurdle, there will be pace from somewhere! I think TNO will beat MTOY, and fancy OC to come out on top against HF. Only two possible winners for me so!!
DM is useless, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and Danny may fall into one here.
I am a big HF fan. He has never got due recognition for his accomplishments. He doesn't look like a Champion Hurdler, but the records say different. But at Christmas, OC looked his equal between the last two. People said Jezki was unlucky. He wasn't, he was short of tactical speed. OC was short of a gallop.
In the Irish Champion, OC looked HFs superior until the last 150 yards, lack of pace to the race told, and also that Dessie knows that was not the one that matters. But improvement was shown, and no doubt there is more to come.
I cant see MTOY winning. He couldn't get past Champagne Fever last year, and I very much doubt he will be better than 3rd at best when he meets the cream this year. He would have been beaten by TNO at Kempton, albeit very narrowly, if TNO had jumped the last. And fans would surely be worried he didn't travel as far on the bridle as would have been expected. True, they pulled a long way clear of decent yardsticks off a slow gallop, but I cant see him beating TNO.
TNO has jumping issues for some, but I think he will be fine. He has an electric turn of foot, and for all that on paper you wonder where the pace is coming from, its a Champion Hurdle, there will be pace from somewhere! I think TNO will beat MTOY, and fancy OC to come out on top against HF. Only two possible winners for me so!!
DM is useless, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and Danny may fall into one here.
Our Conors win was on the Old Course. CH more of a speed test.
exactly callitascuit.....that seemed to go over Wildman's head.....
Our Conor won on the new course....ch on the old course.
callitasucit makes a valid point though....the Champion hurdle[old]course is a lot quicker.
Is there that much of a difference ?
I haven't been there in ages so its a genuine question,still think its academic.
I haven't been there in ages so its a genuine question,still think its academic.
either way its not the same course...... I love the little chestnut being bandied around......our conor really comes alive when he gets to Cheltenham......what a load of ballcock.....
Its not an old chestnut as loads of horses down the years came alive at the festival.
You always have had spring horses and ones that just love Cheltenham.
LEscargot and Willie Wumpkins two that spring to mind.
Normally a horse would have had to have won more than once at Cheltenham to fall into that category,kind of disqualifies Our Conor.
You always have had spring horses and ones that just love Cheltenham.
LEscargot and Willie Wumpkins two that spring to mind.
Normally a horse would have had to have won more than once at Cheltenham to fall into that category,kind of disqualifies Our Conor.
Just a tighter layout Wildman...especially the coming down the hill.....long run from between 2nd last and last obviously suits the speed horses as well.
Sorry JR, obviously I was wrong there in what I wrote. CH is a tighter two mile. But imo OCs biggest asset is his jumping. On the New Course in the Triumph, there are only 2 hurdles jumped in the last 7 furlongs. Obviously the faster they are trapping the more important the hurdling technique is. OC will be electric over these(Paulie, I don't think even DM can hinder this lads jumping!), and that may prove pivotal.
It really is an intriguing race. Regardless of financial interests, I really hope their is no hard luck stories. Its just a shame the race is at such an early stage of the festival.
Its important alright WMFB. Its only an opinion, but I would think Zarkandar would have only finished third in his Triumph if racing on the CH course. Grandouet was all speed, Unaccompanied may too have been better served by an easier test at the time.
It really is an intriguing race. Regardless of financial interests, I really hope their is no hard luck stories. Its just a shame the race is at such an early stage of the festival.
Its important alright WMFB. Its only an opinion, but I would think Zarkandar would have only finished third in his Triumph if racing on the CH course. Grandouet was all speed, Unaccompanied may too have been better served by an easier test at the time.
Horses only come alive at Cheltenham because they're trained for it, they could come alive at Ballinrobe if they were trained for it, personally if the ground comes up the goodish side of good to soft I wouldn't touch Hurricane with a barge pole, but if it comes up softish I'd be loathe to go against him.
HF is a great horse winning slow run races on bog ground, as for Danny Mullins he'll be perfectly ok if the horse is good enough?.
HF is a great horse winning slow run races on bog ground, as for Danny Mullins he'll be perfectly ok if the horse is good enough?.
I actually think last year champion was a shocker and that was the only reason the fly won....the horse never traveled a yard....maybe that's why Ruby thought they went too quick up
front...when you think that the Neptune on the same day was four seconds quicker!....they couldn't have been going that quick in the champion!....obviously his speed on the long run down to the last got him out of trouble.
This year Champion looks to be of the highest quality and the fly is going to have to be a lot better to win it.....is he getting any better?...i'd be inclined to look elseware....tbh.
Haven't made my mind up yet though.....
front...when you think that the Neptune on the same day was four seconds quicker!....they couldn't have been going that quick in the champion!....obviously his speed on the long run down to the last got him out of trouble.
This year Champion looks to be of the highest quality and the fly is going to have to be a lot better to win it.....is he getting any better?...i'd be inclined to look elseware....tbh.
Haven't made my mind up yet though.....
Callitasucit its a very reasonable opinion and one I hadn't factored.
Not so sure Danny Mullins can't do something about Our Conor's jumping,its his main flaw horses don't jump for him.
Not so sure Danny Mullins can't do something about Our Conor's jumping,its his main flaw horses don't jump for him.
I'm inclined to agree with you regarding it being between The New One and MTOY btw Wildman.
Leaning towards My Tent or yours.......i think...
Leaning towards My Tent or yours.......i think...
I think a lot of people have missed a bit of e/w value in this race?..MELODIC RENDEZVOUS? 25/1 I know a lot of people will dismiss him as not good enough..i disagree..also a lot of people will say he needs heavy..and its true he may be a lot better on heavy..but I think he,ll go on good just as well..a fast pace will suit this fella his jumping is solid..and he has won @the track..one bad run (were he was not right)has put a lot of people off his e/w chances..ive had a bet e/w..just cos I feel he is value at the prices..
I must be the only man left backing The Fly. Ground likely to suit Day 1.
* The New One has never beaten a top rival. Didn't even run at 2 miles last Festival.
* Jezki finished within 2 lengths of MTOYT last year; how good can MTOYT be? Beaten by chaser Champagne Fever
* Our Connor is the ugliest horse in training. If I am honest I don't think the jockey or trainer know their arse from their elbow at this level. Well acquainted with the rear end of HF. His supporters are depending upon improvement, seems to me huge improvement already factored into his price. Why take the chance?
The Fly; Best Jock ✓ Best Trainer ✓ Best C&D form ✓ Oirish ✓
Will finally get the respect he deserves.
* There may be factual inaccuracies in the above analysis. My researcher does not work on Sunday.
* The New One has never beaten a top rival. Didn't even run at 2 miles last Festival.
* Jezki finished within 2 lengths of MTOYT last year; how good can MTOYT be? Beaten by chaser Champagne Fever
* Our Connor is the ugliest horse in training. If I am honest I don't think the jockey or trainer know their arse from their elbow at this level. Well acquainted with the rear end of HF. His supporters are depending upon improvement, seems to me huge improvement already factored into his price. Why take the chance?
The Fly; Best Jock ✓ Best Trainer ✓ Best C&D form ✓ Oirish ✓
Will finally get the respect he deserves.
* There may be factual inaccuracies in the above analysis. My researcher does not work on Sunday.
no I don't think you are oz..the fly is the ONE to beat..
Would you say that last years performance would be anywhere near good enough Ozy?
btw Dessie has ridden a CH winner and trained a horse to win two of them.......huge respect for him personally....
As for the New One...not unheard of for a neptune winner to win a Champion.......can you remember the last one?.....wasn't too bad....
btw Dessie has ridden a CH winner and trained a horse to win two of them.......huge respect for him personally....
As for the New One...not unheard of for a neptune winner to win a Champion.......can you remember the last one?.....wasn't too bad....
I don't rate Hughes as a Top Trainer JR, I cannot really elaborate on a public forum.
Well Foggy if hes not a top class trainer , he hides it very well ....The man has proved himself over the last 30 yrs to be right up there ...
....The man has proved himself over the last 30 yrs to be right up there ...
Well Foggy if hes not a top class trainer , he hides it very well ....The man has proved himself over the last 30 yrs to be right up there ...
....The man has proved himself over the last 30 yrs to be right up there ...
I presume you mean Hardy Jr?, Istabraq was ok too, Peddlars Cross won it before finishing r/up to HF, and Rock On Ruby was short headed before winning the Champion on ground he loves, the neptune is not a bad race for potential Champion hurdlers.
As regards last years performance, JR, don't know. He probably didn't have a lot to beat.
The Fly has slammed the new Irish kids on the block this season, no reason why he shouldn't do the same to the English upstarts. Champagne Fever beat MTOYT, I reckon the Fly takes care of Champagne Fever at home.
The Fly has slammed the new Irish kids on the block this season, no reason why he shouldn't do the same to the English upstarts. Champagne Fever beat MTOYT, I reckon the Fly takes care of Champagne Fever at home.
how can you say that oz?..you have no proof for such a comment..and they are totally different horses
Proof? I said 'i reckon'... a statemet of opinion rather than fact.
The fact is CF was superior to MTOY or 2m odd over hurdles at Chelt, no?
The fact is CF was superior to MTOY or 2m odd over hurdles at Chelt, no?
Thats right Silver....
You're entitled to your views regarding Dessie Ozy,we can only speak as we find......i know most of the trainers in Ireland and despite what certain forumites might think i have very
little time for any of them......Dessie would be an exception...couldn't speak highly enough about him.
You're entitled to your views regarding Dessie Ozy,we can only speak as we find......i know most of the trainers in Ireland and despite what certain forumites might think i have very
little time for any of them......Dessie would be an exception...couldn't speak highly enough about him.
I wouldn't read too much into CF beating MTOY's last year just got outstayed after a shocker of a ride by McCoy....no cover....pulled his arms out for 3/4 of the race..made McCoy look
like a 7lb claimer......if he had settled he'd have won by half the track.....Tony knows how to ride him now.
That race was four seconds quicker than the Champion on the same day which makes a nonsense of Ruby's excuse that they were going too quick in the Champion and he shouldn't have followed
them....if the fly travels though the race like he did last year he won't even get into a challenging position imo.
like a 7lb claimer......if he had settled he'd have won by half the track.....Tony knows how to ride him now.
That race was four seconds quicker than the Champion on the same day which makes a nonsense of Ruby's excuse that they were going too quick in the Champion and he shouldn't have followed
them....if the fly travels though the race like he did last year he won't even get into a challenging position imo.
A lot of if's and buts there JR! We shall see in time.
I don't think the jockey or trainer know their arse from their elbow at this level.
ok granted danny mullins is a major liability.....but the second half of that statement is the most ridicolous EVER wrote on this forum,to say that dessie hughes doesnt know his arse from his elbow at this level shows more about what you know about the sport than it does about his training capabilities,i suggest you go to your old reliable wilkipedia and type in HARDY EUSTACE,yes the same one who won 2 champion hurdles and 2 novice hurdles at cheltenham in 4 years,What a STUPID **** you are ......
ok granted danny mullins is a major liability.....but the second half of that statement is the most ridicolous EVER wrote on this forum,to say that dessie hughes doesnt know his arse from his elbow at this level shows more about what you know about the sport than it does about his training capabilities,i suggest you go to your old reliable wilkipedia and type in HARDY EUSTACE,yes the same one who won 2 champion hurdles and 2 novice hurdles at cheltenham in 4 years,What a STUPID **** you are ......
Calm down Dickie!
I know all about his achievements in and out of the saddle and I stand by my statement. I wouldn't consider sending a horse to him.
I know all about his achievements in and out of the saddle and I stand by my statement. I wouldn't consider sending a horse to him.
im sure dessie is gutted that you wont be sending one of your fantasy horses to him(mostly flat)afterall hardy eustaces 600k in prizemoney was all really a fluke.....
That's one hoss in 34 years of training, Dickie. Who is to say Hardy wouldn't have been as successful with another trainer?
I know my opinion on Dessie goes against the grain of conventional wisdom, so be it.
I know my opinion on Dessie goes against the grain of conventional wisdom, so be it.
ozy your missing the point,you said the trainer doesnt know his arse from his elbow at this level....he quite clearly does when he has trained a 2 time winner of the race......had you been talking about shark or rothwell then you would have every right to make the statement,but in this case you are quite simply way off the mark...
have to agree with rich oz..no doubt dessie is a decent trainer..
I don't rate him highly at any level, Dickie.
'Doesn't know his arse from his elbow' was probably not the most accurate was of expressing that, as I agree he has been around the block.
'Doesn't know his arse from his elbow' was probably not the most accurate was of expressing that, as I agree he has been around the block.
fair enough oz....by the way i think as i did this last 3 years that the FLY will win this race..
oh dear dessies horse wins on the bridle possibly enroute to cheltenham,not bad for a man that doesnt know his arse from his elbow...
Whilst most on here are trying to express their opinion to the best of their knowledge and ability.
The amount of rubbish that has been written on here is astounding. A thread concentrated on prob the hardest race of the meeting to call and everyone has and is entitled to their tuppence worth. But yet there are folk on here that know that The new one dident ("even win at 2m last yr") think about Istabraq. Folk on here that think there is no diffrence between the old course and the new course. Think dessie Hughes cannot train horses. Think Danny Mullins is the reason everytime a Connell horse doesent win. Fact is you could run this race five times and get five different results and I would not be surprised if you dident get at least three diff results in those five and every 16th time Melodic might just pop up. So for all yere hyperbole , and it makes a pleasent change from yee slagging each other other and descending the thread into a farce. Someone will be correct and most will be wrong. I will probably be in the latter. But I will only be wrong if I thought the price was wrong. Pick an easier race lads and lets hope the best horse on the day wins.
The amount of rubbish that has been written on here is astounding. A thread concentrated on prob the hardest race of the meeting to call and everyone has and is entitled to their tuppence worth. But yet there are folk on here that know that The new one dident ("even win at 2m last yr") think about Istabraq. Folk on here that think there is no diffrence between the old course and the new course. Think dessie Hughes cannot train horses. Think Danny Mullins is the reason everytime a Connell horse doesent win. Fact is you could run this race five times and get five different results and I would not be surprised if you dident get at least three diff results in those five and every 16th time Melodic might just pop up. So for all yere hyperbole , and it makes a pleasent change from yee slagging each other other and descending the thread into a farce. Someone will be correct and most will be wrong. I will probably be in the latter. But I will only be wrong if I thought the price was wrong. Pick an easier race lads and lets hope the best horse on the day wins.
i assume the previous post was drink induced......I will give him the benefit of the doubt.....
Paulie think it is a fair point the CH is a tough race to have a lot of confidence in picking the winner.No slagging either on a decent racing thread where you know people don,t agree with views but have the respect to counter it with a bit of rationalism,nice to see it.
Back to the theme,while don,t fancy Our Conor in a fit and not trying to read too much into his racecourse gallop,it did look fairly good,don,t know who the 3rd horse was in that but hope he isn,t taking the boat over.
Back to the theme,while don,t fancy Our Conor in a fit and not trying to read too much into his racecourse gallop,it did look fairly good,don,t know who the 3rd horse was in that but hope he isn,t taking the boat over.
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