Return of Dunguib.

I am surprised that there isn't a mention of his stablemate Last Installment who is entered to return at Thurles on Thursday.

Honestly don't know why they're bothering bringing him back,Now 11,Will never be anywhere near as good as he once was,
What kind of race/races will they be genuinely be targeting for him?i very much doubt if he'll win any race of note,
Just retire the old boy!

Not a lot of miles on the clock ....

True,But he's 11 and,As they say,They never come back the same horse,
Would anybody be surprised were he to be pulled up?

I cant see him reaching the same heights either Chelt , by there might be something they have in mind for him if he starts to show them something , Barry will make sure hes not put to the sword if he feels hes not up to it , of that you can be sure...

if hes still any good..why not the hunter route?

He wouldn't qualify  Tony ...

ha..thanks wr..why?

He wasn't a natural jumper but was the most impressive Cheltenham bumper winner I ever saw,remember he left an Ascot Gold Cup winner toiling in his wake.

He would have to been hunted with a registered hunt for a start , doubt he's gone down that route just yet , they are giving him a run on sunday and taking it from there...

right I get you..

Last Instalment coming back after 2 years off deserves a mention alright dj,has interesting form lines with First Lieutenant that put him right there at the top if they can get him "back".

he would qualify.....of course he would have .....as long as they went down the hunters chase route.....

Was there a better bumper horse in the past 20 years? I always thought he was a cup horse for the flat. He doesn't hurdle well enough to trouble the top hurdlers.

Helps when you're pumped up with a potent cocaine type substance.

good man silver.you never fail to dissapoint us!!.amazed you havent met the bewigged ones yet

Punchestown, 29th April, 2009.

The Referrals Committee, Dr. Gordon A. Holmes (in the Chair), Mr. P.J.A. O’Connor and Mrs. T.K. Cooper, met in the Stewards Room at Galway Racecourse, Ballybrit, Co. Galway, on Tuesday 28th July, 2009, to consider a report from BHP Laboratories in Limerick that the biological fluid sample taken from “Dunguib” following its win in the Paddy Power Champion INH Flat Race at Punchestown on 29th April, 2009, was found to contain Aminorex, Levamisole and Hydroxy-Levamisole, which under Rule 20 (v) and Regulation R14 are Prohibited Substances.

Evidence was heard from Mr. Philip Fenton, Trainer, Mr. S.W.D. McIlveen, Turf Club Veterinary Officer, Mr. Dermot Purcell, BHP Laboratories, Dr. Tom Barragry, Pharmacologist, and Mr. James Cody, headman in Mr. Fenton’s yard.

Having considered the evidence the Committee fined Mr. Fenton €3,000 plus costs.  The Committee also disqualified “Dunguib” from first place and ordered the records be amended to read as follows:-

First:  Sweeps Hill (NZ)
Second: Luska Lad
Third:  Universal Truth
Fourth: Sicilian Secret

The Committee acknowledged that Mr. Fenton was personally innocent of any wrong doing but that he must assume responsibility for the actions of his employees.

The case was presented to the Committee by Mr. Conal Boyce of Wilkinson and Price Solicitors, Naas, Co. Kildare and Mr. Frank Ward, Ward & Co. Solicitors, represented Mr. Philip Fenton.

Why is that kavvie? the horse was disqualified for failing a dope test for a very potent substance at Punchestown its public knowledge, as for their laughable excuse as to how this sheep wormer found its way into the horses system not even a child in Kindergarten would buy that one.

Check this fairytale out:


"Then, one morning on the gallops, Fenton took a call from the Turf Club. Bad news. A blood test conducted after the Punchestown race had returned an adverse finding. The B sample had yet to be examined but often the B sample is a parachute that never opens.

Traces of a worming agent had been found. It wasn’t performance-enhancing but a horse couldn’t run with this substance in his system. At first they were baffled. Dunguib wasn’t being treated with this wormer. How the hell? Then it dawned on them. Sher Beau in the stable next door was getting the wormer in his feed; his food pot hangs on a wall adjacent to Dunguib’s pot and the small retractable iron grille that divides the stables must have been left open. The space is comfortably big enough for a horse to poke his head through and it wouldn’t have taken much more than a dribble of Sher Beau’s saliva in Dunguib’s feed to cause a problem. Dunguib was disqualified and nearly €39,000 of prize money had to be returned."

Post hearing comments from Fenton:

"We had a very fair hearing and unfortunately the wrong horse got the wrong dose.
"It was some wormer medication that should have been given to another horse and it's cost us the race.
"It was one of those things and while these things shouldn't happen, they do happen, unfortunately."

Does wasn't performance enhancing mean that it didn't help the horse run any faster???

Oh tolmi c'mon I think you would disagree with me if I said white was white

Who said it wasn't performance enhancing Fenton??, of course its performance enhancing hence why its a banned substance, Levisamole is metabolised in the horses system and breaks down into a cocaine like substance called aminorex, a stimulant of the central nervous system, if thats not performance enhancing I don't know what is?.

Only the really naive could buy Fentons **** and bull fairytale.

From my reading it was not Fenton who said it wasn't performance enhancing.Considering you have a great ability to come up with totally unfounded allegations based on scant/little evidence I think its only fair that someone tries to provide balance to your theories.

Balance tolmi, do you actually believe that story of Fentons?, and even if it was true which it is not why would they have their stable star housed next to a supposed sick horse been treated for worms wouldn't you think the horse wouldn't be stabled within a country mile of the sick horse.

And also why would they treat a horse with a wormer that is designed for use in sheep and cattle not horses?.

Godolphin steroids, Butler, Chemical Nick etc etc all just unfortunate accidents nobody ever deliberately injects a horse with a banned substance to gain an advantage.

As far as I'm concerned all of Dunguibs previous performance before Punchestown come under a cloud of suspicion.

In your original piece who was responsible for saying it was not performance enhancing?

I like to get a proper professional appraisal not your theories before I make a judgement.

Silver,Do you reckon he was on meds for that Cheltenham Bumper win?
Was a very freakish performance.

Thank you for that.

I was merely questioning originally about why it was such an issue if as I had read the original post correctly that the substance was not performance enhancing.Your last post throws a different light on the topic.

Well roar you have to have your doubts whether it was totally legit?.

indeed silver,Disappointing if he was as it really does tarnish his legacy.

its likely he was higher than the London eye.....storming up the hill.....

How much were they reported to be offered by JP after it??Similar to Our Conor money if only it was a few years later BOC(wasn't as prominent then) would have put in an even crazier offer.Crazy not to accept unless you're a Zillionaire

...Higher than the london eye ,  Brilliant , first time i ever heard that expression....

even more crazy not to accept.....if it was the case.....that he was getting a bit of a boost.....

Dear me Silver this a example of nonsensical guesswork i thought even you were not capable of..........incredible.

All horses are regularly treated for worms.....it doesn't mean they are sick.......the wormer of choice for most professionals is ivomec which is used for cattle,sheep and horses

You can get pastes/sachets that are said to be solely for horses and are easier to administer but these are ten times the cost and not nearly as effective.

Hth nothing to see here.

tYpical jr totally ignoring most of my posts to come out with some powder puff apologetic argument.

Dunguib wasn't been treated for worms, read Fentons fairytale, also read my copy and paste about the drug in question, it will answer many questions because there is plenty to see here.

"Then, one morning on the gallops, Fenton took a call from the Turf Club. Bad news. A blood test conducted after the Punchestown race had returned an adverse finding. The B sample had yet to be examined but often the B sample is a parachute that never opens.

Traces of a worming agent had been found. It wasn’t performance-enhancing but a horse couldn’t run with this substance in his system. At first they were baffled. Dunguib wasn’t being treated with this wormer. How the hell? Then it dawned on them. Sher Beau in the stable next door was getting the wormer in his feed; his food pot hangs on a wall adjacent to Dunguib’s pot and the small retractable iron grille that divides the stables must have been left open. The space is comfortably big enough for a horse to poke his head through and it wouldn’t have taken much more than a dribble of Sher Beau’s saliva in Dunguib’s feed to cause a problem. Dunguib was disqualified and nearly €39,000 of prize money had to be returned."

Post hearing comments from Fenton:

"We had a very fair hearing and unfortunately the wrong horse got the wrong dose.
"It was some wormer medication that should have been given to another horse and it's cost us the race.
"It was one of those things and while these things shouldn't happen, they do happen, unfortunately."

.....................................................................
Now JR have a look closely at the 2 bold comments one from his fairytale and one from his post hearing comments, do you notice the contradiction?

More rubbish talk from silvergreaser. All horses are treated for worms every couple of months, its as routine as having their mane pulled. Everyone uses a wide variety of wormers as there are many different types of worms and no one treatment gets rid of them all, so they rotate the various types of wormers.

The issue here is that Dunguib unintentionally came into contact with a worm dose too close to the race, thus the failed test. Horses in training are given all manner of medications and treatments that are on the banned substances list as a matter of routine, but all the substances have a withdrawal period that trainers try to adhere in order to avoid a failed test.

You might want to do some more research on Levamisole. It isn't "cocaine like", it is used as a cutting agent in cocaine in order to bulk it up as it looks like cocaine and has a very similar texture. It has no cocaine-like effects at all, but I'm sure you just saw the word cocaine in the Wikipedia article about it and were too excited to continue reading. Even if it did, if you knew anything about drugs, you'd know that cocaine would have to be administered to a horse minutes before a race to have any sort of effect at all.

I think i have read your posts more closely than you have Silver!......you asked the question why was Dunguib stabled next to a sick horse.......of course that wasn't the case....you were

just summising......you also asked why he was given a sheep wormer.......which i answered........if you want to call that an 'powder puff apologetic argument' then i can only offer you my

most sincere powder puff apologies......

You wouldn't have to be Sherlock Holmes to realise that when Fenton was first confronted with the positive finding he wasn't sure how it had happened like you he could only surmise....By

the time the hearing took place he obviously knew exactly how it happened which is why the Turf club cleared him of any wrong doing but fined him 3k as all trainers are responsible for the actions of their staff.

Case closed.

FFS..... Redbait i've got a couple of bottlers of Ivomec.....i could see a profit!!!....ah well.

I reckon Silver your arse is out on this one.

Redbait not calling this " a new low for the forum " must be some kind of record.

Sounds ominous Gotchee.................I don't think it will involve copious amounts of horse wormer though......

Greaser has a working lab outside of Newbridge that turns Sheep Wormer into pharamceutical grade Cocaine.

Here we go the apologists are out in force again, all accidental of course lads always always always accidental such is the squeaky clean nature of Irish racing,

redbait aminorex has crystal meth like similarities hence why its a class a drug not class b or c "A", so I suggest you do a little more study on the effects of the drug, as for levamisole been used as a cutting agent, I presume by using that as a cutting agent it will still give the cocaine a feel of strong potency to the user without him noticing it was cut?.

Levamisole is used in veterinary medicine and is currently approved for use in cattle, sheep and swine as an anti-parasitic agent. Although it was once used in human medicine in the past for treating autoimmune diseases and cancer, it is no longer an approved drug for human use.

Because of a narrow safety margin and limited effectiveness, it is not generally used in horses.

Now let me see, limited effectiveness?, so why would you use a dewormer that has limited effectiveness in horses???, oh I know why because it has other beneficial properties like stimulating a horses central nervous system to make it feel on top of the world.

BTW JR that fairytale that Fenton told was copy and pasted from an interview long after the hearing, so basically Fenton is contradicting himself, which is it Philip, he licked some of his neighbours saliva and miraculously tested positive or was given the sheep wormer accidentally which is what you said after the "fair" hearing, no wonder you thought it was a fair hearing as you got away with murder for telling porkies and then contradicting yourself.

As for the Turf Club exonerating Fenton of wrong doing just another example of the incestous nature of Irish racing, the trainer is responsible for his horses and if you can't come up with a satisfactory explanation as to how this powerful stuff got into the horses system (in this case Fenton had 2 different stories) so he should've been banned imo.

Why wasn't Fentons evidence made available on the Turf Clubs findings that cheltenham roar copy and pasted?.

We all might not agree with what Silvergreaser has to say , one thing that he does do is , ask questions , and some of them are more profound , than what the BHA and TURF Club are capable of ..So lets keep an open mind...

NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL

It is best not to argue,
But if you do at all,
Never do so with a fool.
A fool can defeat all.

He does not care for the facts.
He does not know debate.
He’s a stranger to reason.
Logic he can negate.

In the end the fool will win,
His logic is so strong!
Decides what he does not like
And then it must be wrong!

It’s better to keep quiet
When challenged by a fool.
Else, to prove his own wisdom,
He will make you a tool.

It is hence my policy
To not respond to those
Who ask questions not to learn
But to be bellicose.

Redbait whatever wage they pay you as press officer should be returned forthwith.

Try answering some of the questions posed redbait because it will be you who looks like a fool if you can't come up with a satisfactory "apologetic" argument to exonerate Fenton.

Why would a vet use a dewormer that has limited effectiveness on horses wouldnt you use one that is recommended for use in horses that doesn't have limited effectiveness?.

Why did Fenton tell a totally different story long after the event?

Crystal meth...........thats some lab you have Silver....

Levamisole and aminorex are trace elements of the horse wormer Silver a dose of Ivomec say would be 10ml for every 500kg animal...now how much of aminorex would you say is in that

10ml?........any idea how much aminorex it would take to have an effect on a half ton animal....

Seriously Silver have a day off.

All the questions have been answered, silvergreaser, you are just choosing to ignore them as they don't fit in with your wild theories.

An article from The Irish Echo.

Drugs bombshell rocks Irish rugby
HOME / ARCHIVE / ARCHIVE / DRUGS BOMBSHELL ROCKS IRISH RUGBY
FEBRUARY 16TH  BY ADMIN   0   0
By Mark Jones
DUBLIN — Drugs in track and field, drugs in cycling, drugs in swimming, but never in Irish rugby. Never, that is, until last week when former international Neil Francis blew the whistle on a sport that didn’t want to see or hear any anabolic evil.
Francis’s startling revelations in the Sunday Tribune that some members of the Ireland squad had been taking performance enhancing drugs since 1988 were initially met with a mixture of outrage and indignation by the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) which went on the offensive and challenged Francis to name names.
But now Francis has continued his exposure of a previously hidden problem by writing of three players who he is sure have taken anabolic steroids. A medical consultant has also dramatically revealed that he has treated as many as 10 Irish players for the side-effects of steroid abuse, one of whom "may not reach is 38th birthday."
While the unnamed consultant has agreed to share his information in general terms with the IRFU, he is keeping the names of his patients confidential. He claims to have treated the players for various ailments such as peptic ulcers, severe penile dysfunction, blood clots and liver and heart conditions.

If so called educated Irish people are prepared to go to these lengths to enhance their own performance, how far would an unscrupulous
Irish racehorse trainer go?

Lads i would be very surprised if a lot of Rugby players dont take stuff in the off season.  You can become that big by not imo.

I would also suspect GAA is the same.

I have no problem with horses who are dosed up.  I would imagine the Vast majority are.  Silver i dont know why you have a bet at all.

Nobody fear Silver is here!!!

Hush hush Silver.  Hopefully this will stop you from punting.  Its not frowned upon in any other sport bar Athletics!

Oh yes it is Rio Ferdinand was banned for an entire season for failing to turn up for a routine test, and the media were all over it like a rash.

Or do you remember 3 journalists tearing cycling a new backside?.

They're all at it in the Tennis,Just look at Djoko Rafa and the likes,just not normal how they perform at times,And very rarely are tennis players tested.

Lads drugs should be legalized.  You would still have the same players at the top anyway.

Well i suppose if everyone takes them they'll all be on a level playing field!

I heard Dunguib was arrested one night for breaching the peace when he was off his head.

Very good Newmanix,

Interesting re Dunguib and the best bumper horse of the past 20 years.

The most exciting horse I saw in bumpers (and I have mentioned him before) was Moon Man for Tom Foley. He had the potential to be as good and possibly better than Danoli. His first win was very impressive over Clay and Wattles and then he gave a fairly highly regarded horse of Aidan's (Ben Dais) and easy beating.

Do many on here remember him? I assume paulie does anyway?

He was on his way to giving That's My Man a fair beating over hurdles too, when he was pulled up and later put down. I have seen no videos since that time in 95 and only saw each race once, so would be interested in the views of others.

I remember him also,I think he was by Remainder Man and he was as good as I saw.

I thought he broke his leg in Navan when going to win a distance,the margins of his victories were immense as were the manner of his victories.

I think he was owned by a Waterford syndicate.

Yes it was in Navan that he broke his leg when he had already left That's My Man behind him. The latter also looked hugely promising so it said something about how Moon Man was treating him. Everyone says that Foley had the once in a lifetime horse in Danoli, but it was a tragedy that he lost what I thought was a better horse.

funny how the memory goes.....I was in navan that day.....and without consulting the net....I would have bet that it was that's my man who was going to beat moon man.....and it was he who was the one who was killed....why im mixed up is that.....that's my man was killed himself later that season....he won the royal bond on his next start.....and never ran again sadly.....
if I remember correctly.....that's my man at the time was reputed to be the best horse jp ever owned.....and moon man was seemingly in control against him that day in navan.....Saying that moon man was receiving 15lb.....so in all likelihood.....they were two brilliant horses.....

moon man was owned by a fella called dollard.....he was indeed from somewhere in Waterford.....he won the irish national with a horse called the bunny boiler.....trained by noel meade.....and you are on the right track.....it carried the colours of the usual suspects syndicate....even though it started off owned by dollard.....and finished up owned by dollard.....its likely that there were a few involved in moon man as well maybe.....
actually backed the bunny boiler in a point in aghabullogue one day.....D M O Brien rode it and managed to get it beat.....it was clear coming to the last and he must have lost 12 lengths trying to make sure he didn't fall.....the following sunday at Killeagh he was a distance clear on a horse Wachman trained Myheartisbroken in a maiden.....and wrestled it to the ground......a quite remarkable double by the rider.....as the killeagh horse was a good horse too.....he won a bumper by 20 lengths the next time he ran......

There was a publican involved in Moon Man,he later became a bookmaker point to points mainly.

I was at Navan that day as well and backed Moon Man at 2/1, it was a long journey home.
Moon Man did something dodgy in his previous race which is why there was so much opposition to him in the betting market.

moon man ran out in Roscommon on his previous run.....he was 8/15 that day......I was there too....but I cannot remember the circumstances.....

I never missed Roscommon in those days yet can't remember that,wouldn't bet that type of odds on anyway.