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11 Dec 13
17:38
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Date Joined:
27 Sep 11
In the racing post, Mr. Sweetman alludes to the biggest problem affecting Irish racing at the moment, the dearth of runners in our Grade One events.
He is absolutely spot on in saying that people are being turned off by the 3 and 4 runner fields, and 1-5 favourites which have become common place, not just in the grade ones, but in the better novice events aswell.
Yes, the way things are at the moment, with Messrs Mullins, Gigginstown and McManus holding all the Aces, and nearly all the picture cards too, its hard to get them to take each other, or more pertinently, themselves on. Why would Wille send out two of his better novices to slog their guts out against each other when they can just contest different races, and pick up both pots??
Most other entreis having been discouraged from declaring to due Mr. Mullins mob handed entry.
Why would JP want to take on Hurricane Fly in the Morgiana, when they can just keep Jezki under wraps for another couple of weeks, and win a Grade One of their own, in another poor turnout??
Why was there only 4 declared for the John Durkan?? Because other horses of enough ability to be in it, have ran in Down Royal a month previously, or will run in the Lexus at Leopardstown.
Its the same with the novices. Because Closutton houses most of the talent pool, these better class novice races are becoming hugely one sided. Willie has 18 entries in the Future Champion Novice Hurdle at Leop. Most opposition will be frightened off by this, but Willie will probably only run one of his 'Big Guns', because a couple of weeks later, he can pop down to Naas and pick up the Slaney Hurdle.
Basically Mr. Sweetman, i do agree it will still be the same people lifting the big prizes, but all we can say there, is fair play to them. But what can be done, is make these races more competitive, and appealing to the racing fan and punter. Quite simply, to increase the numbers in these races, we have to decrease the numbers of races. They then cant cherry pick which one they want to win with which horse. Have it that Mr Ricci has to be taking on Mr O Leary on a regular basis with their big battalions. At the moment, it is far too easy for Willie to keep everyone happy, in rotating his squad.
You never know, a fallout may be that these owners will start increasing their trainer portfolio, if they feel Willie is treating ones more favorable than the others, as regards the hopefully depleted Grade One programme.
I for one would much rather see one top class event between a few of our top 2m/2m4f horses, than seeing two events, with one sided betting and outcomes in both.
He is absolutely spot on in saying that people are being turned off by the 3 and 4 runner fields, and 1-5 favourites which have become common place, not just in the grade ones, but in the better novice events aswell.
Yes, the way things are at the moment, with Messrs Mullins, Gigginstown and McManus holding all the Aces, and nearly all the picture cards too, its hard to get them to take each other, or more pertinently, themselves on. Why would Wille send out two of his better novices to slog their guts out against each other when they can just contest different races, and pick up both pots??
Most other entreis having been discouraged from declaring to due Mr. Mullins mob handed entry.
Why would JP want to take on Hurricane Fly in the Morgiana, when they can just keep Jezki under wraps for another couple of weeks, and win a Grade One of their own, in another poor turnout??
Why was there only 4 declared for the John Durkan?? Because other horses of enough ability to be in it, have ran in Down Royal a month previously, or will run in the Lexus at Leopardstown.
Its the same with the novices. Because Closutton houses most of the talent pool, these better class novice races are becoming hugely one sided. Willie has 18 entries in the Future Champion Novice Hurdle at Leop. Most opposition will be frightened off by this, but Willie will probably only run one of his 'Big Guns', because a couple of weeks later, he can pop down to Naas and pick up the Slaney Hurdle.
Basically Mr. Sweetman, i do agree it will still be the same people lifting the big prizes, but all we can say there, is fair play to them. But what can be done, is make these races more competitive, and appealing to the racing fan and punter. Quite simply, to increase the numbers in these races, we have to decrease the numbers of races. They then cant cherry pick which one they want to win with which horse. Have it that Mr Ricci has to be taking on Mr O Leary on a regular basis with their big battalions. At the moment, it is far too easy for Willie to keep everyone happy, in rotating his squad.
You never know, a fallout may be that these owners will start increasing their trainer portfolio, if they feel Willie is treating ones more favorable than the others, as regards the hopefully depleted Grade One programme.
I for one would much rather see one top class event between a few of our top 2m/2m4f horses, than seeing two events, with one sided betting and outcomes in both.
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Accept the grade 1 hurdles were one sided chiefly due to jezki avoiding hurricane fly which left the way clear for both to get their g1,s, Our conor being injured is probably the only other who could compete against the two,that spoiled one or both being competitive.
The Royal Bond for the novices was an absolute cracker with a very good field and was actually probably too competitive for punters if anything, The Drinmore was also a very good race whioh was open and competitive though a field of 6. The G1 jb wine was also an open race.
All in all think our conor has "ruined" the two g1 hurdles,most of the other g1,s run so far i think have been good races and McManus Gigginstown and Mullins have in fact being taking each other on.I,m not sure they are that bad, regarding the novices faugheen and turnando were too very short ones lately faugheen looks an exceptional horse. Rather than worrying about the shortness of the price in cases like that,it,s always been a pleasure to me just to watch them.
The Royal Bond for the novices was an absolute cracker with a very good field and was actually probably too competitive for punters if anything, The Drinmore was also a very good race whioh was open and competitive though a field of 6. The G1 jb wine was also an open race.
All in all think our conor has "ruined" the two g1 hurdles,most of the other g1,s run so far i think have been good races and McManus Gigginstown and Mullins have in fact being taking each other on.I,m not sure they are that bad, regarding the novices faugheen and turnando were too very short ones lately faugheen looks an exceptional horse. Rather than worrying about the shortness of the price in cases like that,it,s always been a pleasure to me just to watch them.
Some of the better races this season are uncompetitive but i'm not certain there is a way of sorting this . Willie Mullins almost total monopoly of the best horses is a tribute to him but has the knock on effect. With so many big owners WPM must have great diplomatic skills to keep them all happy. Clearly if the big owners spread the talent around the trainers things would improve but they clearly believe WPM to be the best for obvious reasons.
I also enjoy just going racing and seeing the best horses in action .
Also the amount of top NH horses in Ireland at present may be a big plus for Irish NH fans heading to the Cheltenham festival.
I also enjoy just going racing and seeing the best horses in action .
Also the amount of top NH horses in Ireland at present may be a big plus for Irish NH fans heading to the Cheltenham festival.
the single biggest issue troubling irish jumps racings at the moment is the concentration of ownership, all other areas are effected as a result including field sizes and perceived lack of competition.
once upon a time jumps racing was supposed to be the arena for the small time owner to dream of big success, the concentration of ownership at the moment is diluting the possibility of that dream.
rather than just throwing out an opinion, I would rather deal in raw facts.
let us compare the past and the present.....randomly I have decided to compare the irish jump racing and the winning owners for (1) the month of November 1993, and (2) November 2013.
In 1993 when the likes of Danoli, Merry Gale and Flashing Steel were in the winners enclosure....
......well 72 jumps races in the month
.......65 individual winning owners........just one owner, tony o reilly had 3 winners, 5 others had a brace of winners.....and for the record McManus had one winner that month.
fast forward to November 2013
234 jump races....6 owners between them accounted for 45 of those winners.
namely...gigs 12, McManus 12, ricci 8, wylie 5, potts 4, Connell 4.
....without having the time to check, of those 45 wins I would guess no more than 10 were handicaps(mostly mcm hcappers).
jump fans may not like it, but the game has changed, and you will have to put up with the side effects, possibly until some of these owners either lose interest or die off.
the sight of 7 horses in the same silks touring in a maiden hurdle last Saturday was embarrassing to the sport that was once framed as "a small mans game". the said owner has a deep fondness for the jumps game, of all the people around he should know what happened last Saturday is completely against the ethos of the sport....shameful almost comes to mind.
once upon a time jumps racing was supposed to be the arena for the small time owner to dream of big success, the concentration of ownership at the moment is diluting the possibility of that dream.
rather than just throwing out an opinion, I would rather deal in raw facts.
let us compare the past and the present.....randomly I have decided to compare the irish jump racing and the winning owners for (1) the month of November 1993, and (2) November 2013.
In 1993 when the likes of Danoli, Merry Gale and Flashing Steel were in the winners enclosure....
......well 72 jumps races in the month
.......65 individual winning owners........just one owner, tony o reilly had 3 winners, 5 others had a brace of winners.....and for the record McManus had one winner that month.
fast forward to November 2013
234 jump races....6 owners between them accounted for 45 of those winners.
namely...gigs 12, McManus 12, ricci 8, wylie 5, potts 4, Connell 4.
....without having the time to check, of those 45 wins I would guess no more than 10 were handicaps(mostly mcm hcappers).
jump fans may not like it, but the game has changed, and you will have to put up with the side effects, possibly until some of these owners either lose interest or die off.
the sight of 7 horses in the same silks touring in a maiden hurdle last Saturday was embarrassing to the sport that was once framed as "a small mans game". the said owner has a deep fondness for the jumps game, of all the people around he should know what happened last Saturday is completely against the ethos of the sport....shameful almost comes to mind.
I remember 5 years ago all the Grade 1 were going for export and the quality of grade 1 fields was to be frank awful.
Now the Grade 1 have top horses winning them but the races now only have a few runners.
I much rather more quality in Grade 1s that 5 years ago when our NH horses were inferior to our British counterparts.
Now the Grade 1 have top horses winning them but the races now only have a few runners.
I much rather more quality in Grade 1s that 5 years ago when our NH horses were inferior to our British counterparts.
this is a very simple issue for me..........our prize money is better than britains yet they never send their horses over for our NH grade 1's, except maybe the big ones at xmas or punchestown in the spring...........this for me is the issue. we should be getting some british horses for these events. look at the flat...........the brits end their horses to our group 1's...........they dont do so for the NH.
And at the end of that season we had three winners at the 1994 Cheltenham festival. Presently we have some very good horses and its only natural that others are reluctant to take them on. Just like Sprinter Sacre in England. The public will go to see a superstar anyway so its not all negative.
It was nice to see that all the 7 horses were with different trainers.
Another two runner Grade One. Farcical. And Arkle, Briar Hill is no Sprinter Sacre. So Wylie gets his turn in the Grade One winners enclosure today.
I understand people think its great us having plenty of top horses, and hence unprecedented success at the festival. I also love to watch a top class animal in action, regardless of the opposition. But these paltry field grade ones, aren't pleasing many. Not the sponsors, not the racetracks, not the majority of racegoers, not the betting public, and certainly wouldn't be attracting new racegoers,......the list goes on.
If the Grade ones are cut down, different owners wont be able to all get their hands on 'an easy one'. Its simple supply and demand. Make them win them, make them worthy of a Grade One title, and make them really worth going to see.
Make the scarcer.
I understand people think its great us having plenty of top horses, and hence unprecedented success at the festival. I also love to watch a top class animal in action, regardless of the opposition. But these paltry field grade ones, aren't pleasing many. Not the sponsors, not the racetracks, not the majority of racegoers, not the betting public, and certainly wouldn't be attracting new racegoers,......the list goes on.
If the Grade ones are cut down, different owners wont be able to all get their hands on 'an easy one'. Its simple supply and demand. Make them win them, make them worthy of a Grade One title, and make them really worth going to see.
Make the scarcer.
callthecat I couldn't agree more, its the same on the flat, the amount of group races has nearly doubled in Europe over the space of 30 years, the difference with the flat is that winning a group one or any group race gives you black type, often soft touches, over jumps most of them have no balls, the odd few have a fanny so it really makes no difference if they get beat a country mile.
Breeders and owners have an agenda on the flat the more group races we have the better chance my well bred but mediocre horse can pick up some easy pickings, but if they cut down on many of the graded races over the jumps and flat and pooled the prizemoney into a select few events surely we'd get double figure fields regularly?.
Breeders and owners have an agenda on the flat the more group races we have the better chance my well bred but mediocre horse can pick up some easy pickings, but if they cut down on many of the graded races over the jumps and flat and pooled the prizemoney into a select few events surely we'd get double figure fields regularly?.
You would hope, and expect that to be the case. All that is happening is that the vast majority of them are being devalued in all but name, and they aren't worth the title, the prize money, or the admission fee.
Callit all you have to do is look at the Breeders Cup they added not only an extra day but 2 other races on the Saturday as well, as such many of the contests have become penalty kicks, grade one status in name only.
I think the amount of mares only grade one races has quadrupled in Europe, hence why many of the mares avoid taking on the colts for much of the season, why bother when there is such easy pickings among my own sex?.
Back in the 80's the fillies and mares had very little choice but to take on the men on a regular basis, Oh So Sharp, Tryptich, Balanchine, Salsabil etc, if my memory serves the latter 3 all won a classic that was nearly always male only?.
I think the amount of mares only grade one races has quadrupled in Europe, hence why many of the mares avoid taking on the colts for much of the season, why bother when there is such easy pickings among my own sex?.
Back in the 80's the fillies and mares had very little choice but to take on the men on a regular basis, Oh So Sharp, Tryptich, Balanchine, Salsabil etc, if my memory serves the latter 3 all won a classic that was nearly always male only?.
spot on folks , cheltenham the same now, There will soon be a 1 mile 5 furlong hurdle to suit a 1/10 shot that dosent get 2 miles even if it reduces the champion hurdle to 3 runners but they can claim another grade 1 and add a fifth day.
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