Irish Sports
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02 Dec 13
09:08
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11 Feb 10
Reading the general observations on the forum when discussing the Champion Hurdle Our Conor seems to be non existent as regards the Champion Hurdle?.
Looked at the 10 to follow competition lists, and of the 17 participants only 4 included Our Conor but 3 of those also included Hurricane Fly, the only exception was Kavvie who didn't include The Fly.
Is it that Triumph hurdle winners historically don't run well in the Champion hurdle?, that might have been true some years ago but in recent years that trend has changed big time.
Recent Triumph winners record in the Champion Hurdle:
2012 Countrywide Flame, 3rd in Champion Hurdle,
2011 Zarkandar 4th in Champion,
2010 Soldatino never ran in Champion,
2009 Zaynar 3rd in Champion,
2008 Celestial Halo, 2nd in Champion,
2007 Katchit, won Champion, and Punjabi who ran 4th in Katchits Triumph also went on to win the Champion.
The recent trend shift probably has a lot to do with the introduction of the Fred Winter to the festival, you're not getting the huge fields like you use to.
Yet none of the above Triumph winners were as impressive of Our Conor was, he had the whole field cooked coming down the hill, I haven't been as impressed with a festival winner since Istabraq sluiced home for his 3rd Champion Hurdle win.
I can only imagine some think Our Conors breathtaking performance was a fluke?, well I for one am convinced this horse is the real deal and looking forward to him proving that in the coming months.
The form of Our Conors Triumph win has worked out pretty well so far, ok the r/up Far West was a well beaten 4th but the horse who finished 6th Rolling Star won that race easy, the 3rd Sametegal was a narrow r/up in the Greatwood Hurdle and Diakali ran a cracker yesterday, and these horses didnt see which way Our Conor went!.
Looked at the 10 to follow competition lists, and of the 17 participants only 4 included Our Conor but 3 of those also included Hurricane Fly, the only exception was Kavvie who didn't include The Fly.
Is it that Triumph hurdle winners historically don't run well in the Champion hurdle?, that might have been true some years ago but in recent years that trend has changed big time.
Recent Triumph winners record in the Champion Hurdle:
2012 Countrywide Flame, 3rd in Champion Hurdle,
2011 Zarkandar 4th in Champion,
2010 Soldatino never ran in Champion,
2009 Zaynar 3rd in Champion,
2008 Celestial Halo, 2nd in Champion,
2007 Katchit, won Champion, and Punjabi who ran 4th in Katchits Triumph also went on to win the Champion.
The recent trend shift probably has a lot to do with the introduction of the Fred Winter to the festival, you're not getting the huge fields like you use to.
Yet none of the above Triumph winners were as impressive of Our Conor was, he had the whole field cooked coming down the hill, I haven't been as impressed with a festival winner since Istabraq sluiced home for his 3rd Champion Hurdle win.
I can only imagine some think Our Conors breathtaking performance was a fluke?, well I for one am convinced this horse is the real deal and looking forward to him proving that in the coming months.
The form of Our Conors Triumph win has worked out pretty well so far, ok the r/up Far West was a well beaten 4th but the horse who finished 6th Rolling Star won that race easy, the 3rd Sametegal was a narrow r/up in the Greatwood Hurdle and Diakali ran a cracker yesterday, and these horses didnt see which way Our Conor went!.
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Replies: 25
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I think it is a case of recency bias - out of sight out of mind.
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I have always thought the Triumph takes a lot out of a horse ,I feel it takes them more time to recover than most other races , seeing as it comes so early in their careers and is usually a very tough race ...To win a Champion Hurdle the following year is a massive ask imo...
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im a big fan of our conor.backed him all last year and have him backed at 10s for the ch hurd.i dont really care about trends stats etc in his case.he won the triumph on the bridle and seemed to be enjoying himself.i wouldnt think it took anything out of him.i left the fly out of my ten to follow because i think hes close to being finished.some might view that as folly but its all about opinions..
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Kavvie he did indeed win pulling a cart , and i have no doubt he will win many more races , just cant see him winning it this year , if he stays sound can see him been a better horse next year as you say its about opinions , off for a round of golf , talk later....
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enjoy.nice morn for it.rory done me a favour in oz..
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I suppose there is a bit of that byerley, there was also a lot of negativity as regards the appointment of Danny Mullins to ride Barrys horses which I think is a load of old bull, if the horse is good enough the jockey will be good enough.
Robbie Power got dogs abuse because Jezki made a mistake at the last at the festival the same Jezki made a mistake at the last yesterday too under the champion, maybe it might just be the horse?. Paul Nichols stable is doing fine without Ruby, Darryl Jacob more than capable. Workrider I don't believe in this hard race myth, anyway Our Conor won almost as he pleased hardly broke sweat, and he also side stepped Punchestown. Kavvie well done on snapping up the 10/1, I've been waiting on a few bookmakers to push Our Conor out a little but they're immovable at a general 5/1. Hurricane Fly is a damn good horse but the opposition he's faced have hardly been vintage have they?. Much much stiffer competition this year. |
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silver id hold on..ive noticed in recent years that horses prices dont shorten that much from ap to sp in championship races especially.the new one and my tent or yours seem to be the darlings of the media and its possible our conor could sp at 8s if dessie has a sparing campaign with him...if he keeps injury free hes the one im really looking forward to..financially and as a fan!!
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Kav, it will be interesting to see who turns up for the big one at xmas, if the big 3 take each other on the prices could go haywire.
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id love to know dessies thoughts and plans..he may not be fully fit till ch hurd day..a fit h fly jezki and out conor?price it!?...no odds on shot..maybe 6/4 2/1 and 9/4?
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any punter who thinks if the horse is good enough then the jockey will be good enough......well then id say its time for that person to give up the game......
if our conor does in fact get to the race he will without doubt be ridden by the worst jockey in the race......one that has never ridden a winner at the festival.......one that has never ridden in a champion hurdle..... he is undoubtedly a good horse.....but unless hes the best hurdler in 50 years he wont overcome this handicap......anyway the horse has loads of problems.....has already missed 2 races.....and the race he ran in......he got into a barging match ......and came back with a heap of cuts...... on top of all that.....his form is starting to look ropey.....and combine that with the fact.....that all the leading protagonists are all unbeaten.....then how much more negativity do ya need..... |
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Each to their own paulie, if you want to put way too much emphasis on what jockey abilty really brings to the table better off if you gave up the game, the best horse usually outs whoever is on its back.
As for the ropey form?, the Triumph form is working out pretty well see original post, and Our Conor murdered the lot of them. |
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interesting stats there re the triumph silver , cheers for putting them up!
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his form ropey paulie?!?..the triumph he won on the steel is beginning to look like the hottest in years..rolling star is he apple of nicky hendersons eye..?diakali ran good yeaterday and the narrow runner up in the greatwood also ran in that triumph..hardly ropey?
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kavvie.......there is no point arguing with people who have ideas entrenched.....and come up with nonsense repeatedly......like trying to tell me that danny mullins isn't going to be a liability in a champion hurdle.....
you yerself are painting a different picture of the form of the triumph.....you are very much in the glass half full camp......the half empty camp could say.......rolling star is not the apple of hendersons eye.....wasn't right in the triumph.....and isn't being considered for the champion hurdle......even after winning already this season.....the second and third in the race have been beaten off marks in the 140's in handicaps.....the 4th was shhit on by jezki.....the 5th isn't worth a carrot.....the 6th was obviously not right.....and is no superstar anyway.....the 7th beat off 142 the other day.....every other horse that ran in the race is worthless.....as are the ones who didn't finish...... good form my whole......if ya want good form.....try last years supreme novices......the best novice race to be ran in Cheltenham for about 20 years...... |
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He seems to like Cheltenham,has great form,on a line through Diakali would murder both Jezki and My Tent Or Yours and has a decent trainer.
The negatives are he appears ground dependant and to a lesser extent his jockey. |
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murder both jezki and my tent.....are you raving......if he turns up at Christmas.....he will be the outsider of 3.....that's a certainty......
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I am only giving you one form line,the Diakali one.
I am a long time fan of Jezki but was disappointed with yesterday's run,for me it would be evens each of two if they met on winter ground in Leopardstown. |
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well hes not going to meet my tent at leopardstown........and if they decide the ground is acceptable to jezki.....then mark my words.....he'd be clear favourite......
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Your four nil down at the moment,think they will be around the same price.
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I have to go now Wildman.....the nonsense that yer talking is more ridiculous than usual.....either you are taking the pisss.....or have had a skinful......either way im like the dragons in the den......im out.....
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i9 backed jezki yest but he was far from impressive.im a fan but i think our conor would beat him and the fly.i agree re the jockey.what was the owner thinking..?.he must see something the rest of us cant..
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Dessie Hughes is said to be very happy with him and describes him as a "100%",next engagement is 29th of dec where he is expected to take on The Fly with Jezki and My Tent or Yours possibles.
For what its worth while accept Our Conor wasn,t fully wound up for that November handicap it was a disappointing run for me,the damage he got in that must have some effect and Dessie must regret running him there(again accept he was well handicapped),be surprised if the Fly don,t beat him easily in the above race and that will be the end of Our Conors champion hurdle hopes. |
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Paulie,....not disputing last years Supreme was a cracking event, but you don't have to go back too far to find one better. The 2011 Supreme was the best novice ran anywhere, anytime. The only pity is that Spirit Son got injured, he would also have been a superstar.
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callitascuit......admittedly that was a great race......but it was littered with chasers marking time over hurdles......while champagne fever has made the switch......jezki and my tent are out and out champion hurdlers......it was a brilliant race.....the way un atout who won a grade 1 next time was brushed aside is enough for me.....in fact in the 2011 renewal.....only one horse in the first 6 ever won a hurdle race afterwards.....and that was spirit son in Aintree.....jezki and my tent have won 3 grade 1's and a grade 2 already.....and it aint even Christmas yet......
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Spirit Son would have been mighty hard to beat in the following years Champion if he stayed right Paulie. Yes they are making their name as chasers, but they were hardly just chasers. Cue Card had sh*t in in the Champion Bumper. Im not sold on Jezki being a true Champion contender yet. Though, like yourself I was, and will be again, a huge fan of Un Atout. Though he is a real chaser in the making, and was never going to have the speed to beat them types in the Supreme. If I could own the first 4 in 2011(with Spirit Son being operational, as this is nothing to do with injuries, just ability), or the first 4 from 2013, I know which I would pick. Everytime. You??
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