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20 Sep 13 00:24
Date Joined: 11 Apr 07
| Topic/replies: 2,880 | Blogger: ChildOfMine2's blog
All but confirmed by Peter Casey tonight. Looks as though Tony Martin & Ruby have this year's King George winner!
Pause Switch to Standard View Flemenstar On The Move
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Report Dan Chipowski September 20, 2013 12:31 AM BST
Peter Casey ‏@PeterCasey22 1h
#Flemenstar I am so pleased to have achieved 12 runs 8 wins 4 placed €313,749 in prize money with flemenstar..good luck to all in the future
Report Diamond_Joe_Quimby September 20, 2013 12:37 AM BST
Terrible news imo. Don't want to jump to conclusions but not many would have done better than Casey has with this horse
Report irish_guy_13 September 20, 2013 1:21 AM BST
The owner can do what he wants imo..... esp when casey made mistakes in the targets set for the horse last season. Don't forget the owner turned down huge money and is in it for the glory not the cash, he is right to change stable and give himself a shot in the limelight/history of the game with this horse of a life time. best of luck to all involved.
Report J.R.Hartley September 20, 2013 8:52 AM BST
Andrew Lynch keeps the ride wherever he goes.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 20, 2013 9:01 AM BST
Ermmmm how did Casey make mistakes?? Wasn't it the owner who wanted to turn him into a Gold Cup horse, i remember the quote between the Lexus and Hennessy when it was said the owner wanted to give him another chance at 3m - perhaps the owner should have just trained the horse himself
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 20, 2013 9:05 AM BST
The owner can do what he wants imo

I totally agree with that however, it's his horse, he pays the bills and he can get whoever he wishes to train the horse for him
Report Bigwillystyle September 20, 2013 9:07 AM BST
The owner seems an absolute clown to me.  It appears to me that it was the owner who wanted to make him a 3 Miler.  Of course it is his horse and he can do what he likes but he comes accross as having some ego.  Horse will probably never reach his potential which is a pity as he is some jumper.
Report J.R.Hartley September 20, 2013 9:34 AM BST
I wouldn't rule out 3m just yet........had a wind op in the summer seemed to stop far too quickly for it to be just stamina issues imo.
Report kavvie September 20, 2013 9:50 AM BST
id agree totally with jr.if the horse was sick on and off last year and had a wind op he might stay 3m.remember he wasnt beaten far..if he had won would that mean he stayed it? say the jockey made too much use of him too far out also?
Report Bigwillystyle September 20, 2013 10:05 AM BST
Sizing Europe all over again.  Horse doesnt stay three miles.  End of.  Still think even though Sizing won a couple of races at Cheltenham that one of those Down Royal runs left its mark on him
Report kavvie September 20, 2013 11:41 AM BST
time will tell.did florida pearl stay 3m?..if he was beaten at 3m would that say he didnt stay it?
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 20, 2013 12:15 PM BST
of course he stayed 3m, he won the Royal And Sun Alliance Chase and King George and then the races he won over 3m at Leopardstown

Florida Pearl did not stay 3m 2 1/2f
Report brain dead jockeys September 20, 2013 2:20 PM BST
flemanstar is a much better horse over 2 & 2&4f than 3m...........this is a fact, not an opinion. only an idiot would try him over 3m again. some of the people on this forum.o my god.
Report Arklearkle September 20, 2013 2:30 PM BST
Perhaps Tony Martin has a better vet. Flemenstar seemed very prone to illness and injuries last season.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 20, 2013 2:39 PM BST
sure no fancied horse returns from a race they've lost without an illness/injury these days Plain
Report kavvie September 20, 2013 3:41 PM BST
brain dead ur well named.the glory and big money is at 3m and 3m plus..are you absolutely certain a fit flemenstar doesnt stay 3m and 3m  plus? not and im sure most people arnt sure either.the evidence would say no(ish) but its not hugely conclusive given what we have heard since..?
Report Bigwillystyle September 20, 2013 4:00 PM BST
Kavvie any horse can stay any trip if the pace is right.  He would no doubt win races at 3M but he has no chance of winning a gold cup over 3M21/2F which is what the owner seems to be after.  Its one way to sour a horse quickly giving him hard slogs over three miles which to me clearly is nowhere near his best distance.  A fit Flemenstar didnt see it out great last year so what has changed?
Report kavvie September 20, 2013 4:23 PM BST
id say no chance 3.2 but maybe if ridden properly a king george? or lexus?..rem he touched 1.2 full of running jumping 2nd last..maybe if slightly restrained he would have won it looking like a stayer? not giving up on him yet.everything about him pedigree,jumping ability,looks,temperament spells staying they say opinions are like ****s.everyone has one!!
Report Bigwillystyle September 20, 2013 4:32 PM BST
He is a great jumper which is why you have to make use of it.  He is best out in front making use of his jumping.  It doesnt matter a jot what he hit in running 2 out beacause 2 out in Leopardstown you are still 3F + from home.  They would probably have only started racing at that stage 

Sizing Europe is a brilliant jumper of fences when out in front.  He is a very average jumper when he was held up in those 3M races.
Report Santry September 20, 2013 4:37 PM BST
I'd say Flemenstars best distance is 2/2 1/2 miles and is top notch at that. Slower horses will beat him at 3 miles because that distance suits them better . Flemenstar may win a Ryanair but will never win  a Gold Cup. Like a lot of small owners that stumble on a good horse they don't seem to have the cop on to let the trainer call the shots. Mr. Curran a few times last season came across as an arrogant man and hopefully Tony Martin can rule when it comes to training and placing Flemenstar as he is one of our best chasers. The Caseys can be very proud of the job they have done up to this in the circumstances.
Report callitasucit September 20, 2013 5:16 PM BST
I just hope the horse hasnt been bottomed out already. He may never race with his old enthusiasm and vigour again after the injuries, and going through the pain barrier when racing beyond his optimum trip. Something which i think has ruined Grand Cru. If back to the peak of his powers, and now with a competent trainer, he will be a sight to behold, and 3 miles around Kempton may be within his limits. Remember such types as Edredon Bleu have won there. Him at his best against Sprinter Sacre over 2m4f, would be sight to behold. Lets hope we see it.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 20, 2013 5:23 PM BST
Sprinter Sacre would laugh at him in my opinion
Report callitasucit September 20, 2013 5:32 PM BST
Maybe. Maybe not. I would love to see it.
Report The Gotchee September 20, 2013 9:36 PM BST
Tony Martin will not improve the horse and the owner will get all he deserves by his disloyal behaviour. We have seen the best of this horse.
In reality, had Tony Martin got this horse two years ago, at this stage of his career he may have managed to win a handicap hurdle at Kilbeggan or Bellewstown.

Casey has done a fine job with Flemenstar. The owner and Martin are well matched.
Report GANT007 September 20, 2013 10:24 PM BST
Tony will not bow to the media and will only run the horse when he is 100% spot on.
Report Rocketfingers September 20, 2013 10:41 PM BST
I see Tony Martin's PR guru is here !
Report GANT007 September 20, 2013 10:51 PM BST
Tony doesn't need a PR man.........his horses do the talking.
Report The Gotchee September 20, 2013 11:27 PM BST
He should have lost his licence years ago.
Report brain dead jockeys September 21, 2013 12:44 AM BST
i cannot understand why guys on here think its ok that he runs over 3m and comes 2nd or 3rd every time as opposed to running over 2m or 2m 4f and winning 1st prize......remember what peters son said on ATR..........he should not be running over 3 miles.........
Report neill d September 21, 2013 2:02 AM BST
Martin and Willie Mullins are the two best NH trainers in the country so he has at least gone with the best. He'll win a grade 1 3 mile races if that is what they want to do but he is always going to be better at the shorter trip. Sprinter Sacre distorts things, if he was around at another time he might be considered one of the great 2 milers, Cue Card is similar.

Would have a huge class edge in a Ryanair, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him go very very well in a Gold Cup on class alone. Kauto Star's 2007 race was run at a doddle like. If anyone can tease the stamina out of him Martin can and maybe the wind op will help?

One other question. would working with better horses possibly bring this fella on or get him to settle better. I doubt P Casey had anything to even lead him without bursting itself.

Delighted for Martin as he is a seriously good trainer, but gutted for Peter Casey all the same, he is a million to get another one like this and he seems to have taken the move with a lot of grace, something the great Paul Nicholls couldn't do with a horse on the verge of retirement who had won the lot. Well done Peter!!
Report silvergreaser September 21, 2013 6:26 AM BST
I dont buy into Flemenstar been sick excuse too much, the horse might have been a little below par at Aintree as I thought he would've finished a little closer but even if running to form I wouldn't have expected him to finish anywhere else but 3rd behind 2 horses that are his obvious superior in Sprinter Sacre and Cue Card, other than that I think the horse ran pretty much to form during most of last season with 3 miles just stretching his stamina a little.

He can still mop up plenty of graded races during the earlier part of the season as many of the other trainers keep their middle distance chasers wrapped up in cotton wool or half fit in preparation for the holy grail that is the Cheltenham festival.

I doubt Martin will improve the horses unless the syringe comes out?, as for Gants statement that Tony will only run his horses if they're 100% spot on?, sorry gant you had me rolling on the floor in tears of laughter at that statement, I know he's a fellow Meath man and all that but c'mon?.

All in all I feel sorry for Peter Casey as its nice for the little guy to take on and beat the big boys but its the owner who calls the shots and its his prerogative if he thinks the move to the syringe will make a major difference?.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 21, 2013 8:14 AM BST
you do realise you could get yourself in serious trouble making allegations like that Plain i hope for your sake you have the neccessary proof to back your statements up should the situation when you need then arise

as for Tony won't pander to the media, i don't think Casey pandered to the media, the only person he pandered too was an owner who seemed to want to play trainer in placing the horse [as said his choice as he owns the horse]
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 21, 2013 8:15 AM BST
or have i missed something?
Report silvergreaser September 21, 2013 8:17 AM BST
TRAINERS Tony Martin and Jim Best found themselves in trouble with the Newmarket stewards on Saturday after being found guilty of a breach of instruction C7 – which governs restrictions on substances administered to racecourses.

Martin was fined £1,500 and Best £1,000 after two members of stable security stafffound employees of the trainers in attendance with Leg Spinner and Gee Dee Nen in possession of prohibited substances.

Stipendiary steward William Nunneley said: "Both trainers said theyknew the rules but prohibited substances had accidentally beentaken into the stabling area by their staff.

"In Martin's case it was quite a serious substance, one with a local anaesthetic affect, but there was no suggestion they were going to be used."
Martin was also found with the means to administer.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y September 21, 2013 8:18 AM BST
fair enough thought i must have been missing something
Report GANT007 September 21, 2013 6:39 PM BST
PF.....Casey loved the media side of it. Sure he had some deal going with Ladbrokes also. Who knows till the horse runs.
Peter Casey is a fine trainer and everyone knows you will not improve a horse coming out of his yard.
Change of scenery and gallop might do the trick.
Report roadrunner46 April 13, 2019 6:38 PM BST
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