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20 Jul 13
21:21
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14 Jun 05
i cant remember too many.............without doubt the best jockey i have ever seen. i see no weaknesses.
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The Meathman aint called "Group 1 johnny" for nothing......class act and will get to the same level as a trainer.
Riding brilliantly these last few seasons . Top 10 of post war jockeys in these isles . Best ever ????
Could open up a debate that . But he has been brilliant , particularly recently , even wearing a few hats .
Could open up a debate that . But he has been brilliant , particularly recently , even wearing a few hats .
In answer to the question at the top of the thread ......
Chester ...... Frozen Fire, Mastercraftsman
York Ebor ...... Changingoftheguard
Breeders Cup ...... Heart Shaped
No pocket talk there gents, just fact based on performances of such complete ineptitude in the saddle that at the time they defied belief and even now they live on in the memory.
Let me know if you need any more.
Chester ...... Frozen Fire, Mastercraftsman
York Ebor ...... Changingoftheguard
Breeders Cup ...... Heart Shaped
No pocket talk there gents, just fact based on performances of such complete ineptitude in the saddle that at the time they defied belief and even now they live on in the memory.
Let me know if you need any more.
Well it's very obvious that you are a Coolmore "Groupie", Soldieroffortune but I will put your bad rides in to perspective.
Frozen Fire only won 2 races, a Gowran Maiden and the poorest Irish Derby in living memory. You were obviously sucked in by the Coolmore hype because even after Chester he ran 6 more times never finishing better than 5th. Frozen Fire was a one hit wonder and was completely regressive after his Derby win
Mastercraftsman never ran in Chester
Changingoftheguard was very unlucky in running and ran to his best ever Racingpost rating. This is what the Racingpost had to say
" Although raised 12lb for his comfortable success in the Ulster Derby, there was more than a suspicion that he remained well handicapped despite racing off a mark 3lb higher than had ever been defied before in this race. He didn´t help his cause by missing the break but soon recovered to race in midfield. His problems really began early in the straight as he was stuck on the inside with little room to manoeuvre, while the winner was already under maximum pressure and responding well wider out. He finally found a route through a furlong and a half out but even then had to weave his way between horses rather than enjoy a totally clear run. He came up just short but did show the sort of change of pace valuable in a staying horse, and it wasn´t a surprise to see him cut to a best price of 10-1 for the St Leger on the back of this".
Heart Shaped, one career win in a 5 runner race, ran ten more times without success. His best Racingpost rating was in that Breeders Cup, another amazing feat. A regressive Coolmore dud who never raised a gallop thereafter.
Frozen Fire only won 2 races, a Gowran Maiden and the poorest Irish Derby in living memory. You were obviously sucked in by the Coolmore hype because even after Chester he ran 6 more times never finishing better than 5th. Frozen Fire was a one hit wonder and was completely regressive after his Derby win
Mastercraftsman never ran in Chester
Changingoftheguard was very unlucky in running and ran to his best ever Racingpost rating. This is what the Racingpost had to say
" Although raised 12lb for his comfortable success in the Ulster Derby, there was more than a suspicion that he remained well handicapped despite racing off a mark 3lb higher than had ever been defied before in this race. He didn´t help his cause by missing the break but soon recovered to race in midfield. His problems really began early in the straight as he was stuck on the inside with little room to manoeuvre, while the winner was already under maximum pressure and responding well wider out. He finally found a route through a furlong and a half out but even then had to weave his way between horses rather than enjoy a totally clear run. He came up just short but did show the sort of change of pace valuable in a staying horse, and it wasn´t a surprise to see him cut to a best price of 10-1 for the St Leger on the back of this".
Heart Shaped, one career win in a 5 runner race, ran ten more times without success. His best Racingpost rating was in that Breeders Cup, another amazing feat. A regressive Coolmore dud who never raised a gallop thereafter.
Only one of those that should have won was Changingingoftheguard to me. The ride he gave Yeats in his fourth Gold Cup was one of the most decisive ever seen around Ascot. He was brilliant for Coolmore in 2008 on the likes of Henrythenavigator and Duke of Marmalade.
The Gotchee I apologise for the slip of the keyboard - it was in fact Masterofthehorse who was the sad recipient of a ride of pure genius and complete race awareness from Murtagh in Chester. The punters at the track were hugely impressed - do you recall the reception the jockey got when he came in?? No of course you don't.
Re changingoftheguard, clearly you've read the edited version of the RP analysis. The first version was drafted as follows ...... " Although raised 12lb for his comfortable success in the Ulster Derby, there was more than a suspicion that he remained well handicapped despite racing off a mark 3lb higher than had ever been defied before in this race. He didn´t help his cause by missing the break but soon recovered to race in midfield. His problems really began early in the straight as the clueless idiot in the saddle got him anchored and stuck on the inside with little room to manoeuvre, while the winner was already under maximum pressure and responding well wider out. Finally the 20-watt light bulb came on in Murtagh's head and realising that the post was in sight he finally found a route through a furlong and a half out but even then had to weave his way between horses rather than enjoy a totally clear run. The jockey snatched defeat from the jaws of victory yet again on a Ballydoyle horse, and he came up just short but did show the sort of change of pace valuable in a staying horse, and it wasn´t a surprise to see him cut to a best price of 10-1 for the St Leger on the back of this".
Finally my friend, Heart Shaped was a she not a he. From the outside draw she managed to find herself blocked in on the rail in the closing stages under an utterly clueless ride. Sadly that trait of getting blocked in and finding a gap too late became an all too common story and the rest, as we know, is history.
Re changingoftheguard, clearly you've read the edited version of the RP analysis. The first version was drafted as follows ...... " Although raised 12lb for his comfortable success in the Ulster Derby, there was more than a suspicion that he remained well handicapped despite racing off a mark 3lb higher than had ever been defied before in this race. He didn´t help his cause by missing the break but soon recovered to race in midfield. His problems really began early in the straight as the clueless idiot in the saddle got him anchored and stuck on the inside with little room to manoeuvre, while the winner was already under maximum pressure and responding well wider out. Finally the 20-watt light bulb came on in Murtagh's head and realising that the post was in sight he finally found a route through a furlong and a half out but even then had to weave his way between horses rather than enjoy a totally clear run. The jockey snatched defeat from the jaws of victory yet again on a Ballydoyle horse, and he came up just short but did show the sort of change of pace valuable in a staying horse, and it wasn´t a surprise to see him cut to a best price of 10-1 for the St Leger on the back of this".
Finally my friend, Heart Shaped was a she not a he. From the outside draw she managed to find herself blocked in on the rail in the closing stages under an utterly clueless ride. Sadly that trait of getting blocked in and finding a gap too late became an all too common story and the rest, as we know, is history.
i know one thing for sure he saved kingguesses ballocks tonite.....
neill some brilliant horses you mention there.
Timely that workrider appears on this thread and a fine rider he was in his prime and probably my friend you still are!
workrider could have got Yeats home in Ascot, equally he could have won those races on Henry and the Duke as basically the horses possessed talent way in excess of their rivals.
I think you understand the point I'm making neill.
Timely that workrider appears on this thread and a fine rider he was in his prime and probably my friend you still are!
workrider could have got Yeats home in Ascot, equally he could have won those races on Henry and the Duke as basically the horses possessed talent way in excess of their rivals.
I think you understand the point I'm making neill.
In all fairness SOF , He was the best rider they ever had , Kinane included , very seldom made a mistake , during his time there you can only come up with 4 ...a certain k made that amount in a day ffs ....What would they give to have him back now my friend ...BTW i believe Irish Rail will be doing cheap tickets next year to all First Division matches ........
The Gotchee I apologise for the slip of the keyboard - it was in fact Masterofthehorse who was the sad recipient of a ride of pure genius and complete race awareness from Murtagh in Chester. The punters at the track were hugely impressed - do you recall the reception the jockey got when he came in?? No of course you don't.
soldier, your apology is accepted.
You might remember that Masterofthehorse was beaten that day by his stable companion Golden Sword 25/1, who didn't go unbacked. Far be it for me to suggest that the Coolmore boys would ever try and pull a stunt and and back the stable second string. Did you ever consider that Johnny may have been riding to instructions, hence the injudicious ride. No No No No Coolmore would never do anything like that. Their honesty and integrity is their bond.
As it turned out Masterofthehorse never won another race
soldier, your apology is accepted.
You might remember that Masterofthehorse was beaten that day by his stable companion Golden Sword 25/1, who didn't go unbacked. Far be it for me to suggest that the Coolmore boys would ever try and pull a stunt and and back the stable second string. Did you ever consider that Johnny may have been riding to instructions, hence the injudicious ride. No No No No Coolmore would never do anything like that. Their honesty and integrity is their bond.
As it turned out Masterofthehorse never won another race
Yes mate I'll be first in the queue for those cheap tickets next season! FFS how bad are we!
Those four just came off the top of my head workrider and there are many many more. The other thing that really got me was the whole Duke of Marmalade affair when Murtagh comes out in the press and talks about jockey discussions re how the race might be run. You'll recall the race for sure workrider in Newmarket. I mean even if there are some form of team orders, what kind of brainless idiot comes out in the press and tells the world about them??!! The whole operation got into serious hot water over it as you'll no doubt remember.
Those four just came off the top of my head workrider and there are many many more. The other thing that really got me was the whole Duke of Marmalade affair when Murtagh comes out in the press and talks about jockey discussions re how the race might be run. You'll recall the race for sure workrider in Newmarket. I mean even if there are some form of team orders, what kind of brainless idiot comes out in the press and tells the world about them??!! The whole operation got into serious hot water over it as you'll no doubt remember.
But HE WON THAT RACE AS WELL ....THE PRESS DIDN'T NEED JOHNNY TO TELL THEM WHAT WAS GOING ON SOF, THE WORLD AND HIS WIFE KNEW ABOUT COOLMORES TEAM TACTICS....
Gents on a lighter note and looking at the first post on here - there could hardly have been a forumite with a more appropriate name to start a thread about Murtagh and bad rides!
workrider specifically in that case re the Newmarket race, it was the comments Murtagh made about asking Colm to open up and give him a gap that led to the disciplinary. Even if those type of discussions are had between jockeys in private, what kind of an idiot comes out and shouts about them in the press. As a direct result there was all kinds of trouble for Ballydoyle.
but ffs thats been going on since the early 70s ..remember bustino v grundy ..hern had 3 in it , and they let each other pass on either side ...try another one ....
workrider KF was an absolute genius in the saddle for the Coolmore Navy
Not the k i knew , if we ever meet i'll tell you a story about him that'll make your hair curl , ...Still each to his own eh, after all its a game of opinions...
workrider you absolutely nailed it with that bustino v grundy affair - can you locate a video of that please and send it to ...... "Seamus Heffernan, c/o Ballydoyle ...."
Johnny Murtagh rode a handicapper trained by John Oxx and owned by the Aga Khan in the first race at Naas some years back,he cruised to the front stopped riding and was collared close home,there was a charge for the parade ring to abuse him led mainly by yahoos that had no bet in the race,I had 600 at 5/2 the beast.
Can anyone else remember that race?
Can anyone else remember that race?
I can't recall it wildman but listen you can remember races and the facts and stories surrounding them far better than anyone else on here and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.
Gents these guys in the plate are human, they have good days and bad days and don't we all. Their bad days are highlighted by cameras and critics and punters who've lost money or pride, or both! No jockey is flawless and fair play to them for taking the job on in the first place.
Gents these guys in the plate are human, they have good days and bad days and don't we all. Their bad days are highlighted by cameras and critics and punters who've lost money or pride, or both! No jockey is flawless and fair play to them for taking the job on in the first place.
hes the greatest jockey i have ever seen.........again at naas he was pure class
Doesn't take him self to seriously does Johnny, a few others should take a leaf out of his book. Top jock.
Murtagh is much less likely to over complicate things unlike some fancy dans I know from the so called top jockey tree.
Johnny is having his place in the sun at the moment next month it might be some other jockey or trainer, thats how racing always worked.
Richard Hughes has had a couple of great years but if he wasn't riding for the all conquering Hannon stable where would he be?.
Johnny is having his place in the sun at the moment next month it might be some other jockey or trainer, thats how racing always worked.
Richard Hughes has had a couple of great years but if he wasn't riding for the all conquering Hannon stable where would he be?.
Johnny is a top class jockey but makes mistakes the same as anyone else.........on another note i was surprised to hear that Tommy Carmody has left Johnny and gone to Tony Martin!
Surely not surplus to requirements.....
Surely not surplus to requirements.....
think johnny is a top man but im sure he still has nightmares about six perfections
Wildman, Mirpour is the horse you are thinking of.
That's him alright thank you Know Won Nose tis no wonder you won all those quizzes.
johnny! johnny! johnny! form is temperory,class is permanent1
I'd say Bill Farrell was quite pleased with the 2 rides tonight, particularly good ride on the (badly drawn) handicapper. Gave the horse a chance to fill its lungs before a final push to the line...
Johnny is the best jockey riding in Ireland by a country mile. Hard work and graft with a few setbacks in between has made him the jockey he is today. Coolmore dont make many mistakes but it was a real fkuc up giving Johnny his P45. They have lost millions in prizemoney and multiples of that in stud fees.
Agreed, he'd have gotten Camelot home in the Leger too and none of the **** that went on with him this year would've happened. 500k yearling, Guineas and Derby winners should be ridden by the best jockey, not the fella who shows flashes of class but is too erratic and doesn't yet know enough to get vthe job done on the big stage when things go against him. He'd have gotten Venus De Milo home too in the Oaks.
agrred, ballydoyle really messed up with johnny
Six Perfections in the Irish 1000 Guineas, where he managed to find trouble in running on the wide open spaces of the Curragh in a race with only 5 or 6 runners, though MJ Kinanne played his part in that by not opening the gate for Murtagh. He then played a mean trick on Johnny later that year in a little race at Bellewstown, when he appeared to allow Murtagh through on the rail only for Kinanne to allow his apparently beaten horse to drift over again, forcing Murtagh to snatch up his mount and get beaten a head or so, a la the Guineas. The bould Micky Joe done some chuckling in his post race interview.
It's good to see a racing thread with contributions from some of the older names who used to post more regularly when this a worthwhile forum....
Golden Cross in the Stayers is an expensive memory!
Golden Cross in the Stayers is an expensive memory!
Coincidentally Bensoon runs in the Golden Cross colours tomorrow evening at Gowran. The first time cheekpieces might be what this this tricky lad needs
textbook stuff yet again,hes on the best horse,keep it simple,dont get into trouble and blow them away!
Johnnies ride on Ouija Board in the 2004 Arc was far from a Classic and Johnny himself will admit that he should have won . He doesn't make too many mistakes in fairness to him and has landed many a group 1 on what were "unfancied horses" . He's definitely one of the best our little Island has produced , right up there with Eddery, Kinane, Roche and Fallon.
His detractors have to go back several years to uncover allegedly bad rides.
Does he ever get bad horses to ride ?
Most of them are favs or well fancied.
People going into ecstasy because he won on Gordon Lord Byron -who was well clear on form and today's winner was a favourite who scorched clear to win by almost 4 lengths. Nothing required from jockey only a standard ride.
I can't understand people's need for constant hype and exaggeration.
Most of them are favs or well fancied.
People going into ecstasy because he won on Gordon Lord Byron -who was well clear on form and today's winner was a favourite who scorched clear to win by almost 4 lengths. Nothing required from jockey only a standard ride.
I can't understand people's need for constant hype and exaggeration.
John Oxx was the greatest trainer on earth when a certain horse called Sea The Stars was keeping him in the limelight, a few lean years and now he's a poor trainer?.
Murtagh is enjoying a purple patch, next year might be a lean year and some will be saying Murtagh is gone at the game?, yet we all know the ability of the horse is paramount, its so simple it cost zero to get your head around, even Noddy O'Brien is having a lean year by Coolmore standards, is it they haven't got the horses this year, so bad is it Declaration of War is their flag bearer.
Murtagh is enjoying a purple patch, next year might be a lean year and some will be saying Murtagh is gone at the game?, yet we all know the ability of the horse is paramount, its so simple it cost zero to get your head around, even Noddy O'Brien is having a lean year by Coolmore standards, is it they haven't got the horses this year, so bad is it Declaration of War is their flag bearer.
His ride on Belle De Crecy on the Curragh was near perfection,he has just repeated it there in Listowel on Rich Coast.
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