Irish Sports
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01 Jul 13
08:58
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Date Joined:
11 Feb 10
less convincing than one.
Is this guy for real, does he think we're all plebs?, horse has had 3 runs in its entire career and had 28 days off after Epsom yes I'll say that again thats 4 full weeks off?, how long does it take a horse to get over a horse race, probably 2 days.
O'Brien blames busy schedule for Ruler flop
BY PETER SCARGILL 8:29PM 30 JUN 2013
AIDAN O'BRIEN said on Sunday that Ruler Of The World's defeat in the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby may have been a result of too many races in a short period of time.
Winner of the Investec Derby at Epsom, Ruler Of The World was sent off the 4-5 favourite to maintain his unbeaten record, having also claimed victories in a 1m2f maiden and the Chester Vase, and provide his trainer with an eighth successive victory in the Classic.
However, the son of Galileo could only manage a lacklustre fifth, beaten ten lengths, behind winner Trading Leather at the Curragh.
After winning a maiden on his racecourse debut in April, Ruler Of The World's three subsequent outings came in 52 days and O'Brien blamed the workload for Ruler Of The World's failure on Saturday evening.
"He had three quick runs and maybe he needed a break. Obviously getting warm [before the race] didn't help," O'Brien said.
"Of course we want to win every race, but wasn't it great for the race [that Jim Bolger won it]?"
Is this guy for real, does he think we're all plebs?, horse has had 3 runs in its entire career and had 28 days off after Epsom yes I'll say that again thats 4 full weeks off?, how long does it take a horse to get over a horse race, probably 2 days.
O'Brien blames busy schedule for Ruler flop
BY PETER SCARGILL 8:29PM 30 JUN 2013
AIDAN O'BRIEN said on Sunday that Ruler Of The World's defeat in the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby may have been a result of too many races in a short period of time.
Winner of the Investec Derby at Epsom, Ruler Of The World was sent off the 4-5 favourite to maintain his unbeaten record, having also claimed victories in a 1m2f maiden and the Chester Vase, and provide his trainer with an eighth successive victory in the Classic.
However, the son of Galileo could only manage a lacklustre fifth, beaten ten lengths, behind winner Trading Leather at the Curragh.
After winning a maiden on his racecourse debut in April, Ruler Of The World's three subsequent outings came in 52 days and O'Brien blamed the workload for Ruler Of The World's failure on Saturday evening.
"He had three quick runs and maybe he needed a break. Obviously getting warm [before the race] didn't help," O'Brien said.
"Of course we want to win every race, but wasn't it great for the race [that Jim Bolger won it]?"
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sorry 4 runs.
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Is this Groundhog Day?
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He was asked to explain something and being polite answered with a maybe and then rather gallantly praised the winning trainer.
He could have blamed the horse boiling over which is what I would have done but decided not to use excuses. So let me do it for him,the horse sweated up in the parade ring everyone there saw that and although he went down to tha start alright the sweating increased at the start,his neck was black with sweat and his jockey knew it which is why he took his feet out of the stirrups. |
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Silver go back to bed for a while.
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arkle why should I go back to bed for dispelling yet anther racing myth?.
Oh he had a hard race at cheltenham, ffs the race was 12 months ago, jesus ffs if you believe that then you are an effinf pleb? |
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The expression 'horses arent machines' was invented for you.
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useless journeymen horses can win 3 a month, and the guy at cheltenham had a hard race 12 months ago? o figure?
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how many favs have the won the irish derby in last 10 years, bad race for favs no?. what i find hard to belive was how easy
with hindsight was to find the winner trading leather,2nd in the dante derby trial followed by 8f/10f/12f at the curragh, thats the textbook training of the highest order. A O BRIEN he has to tell them something, reasonble excuse if you ask me. |
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Greaser, I think a lot of your Coolmore angst comes from the fact you followed racing at a time when they put very high store in keeping potential stallions unbeaten. I think that has largely gone as it has served its purpose as a model maybe? and they are more interested in getting their horses more rounded CV's than just Guineas/Derby gone to all intents and purposes.
O'Brien gave a very interesting interview in the Racing post a few years ago when he mentioned something to the effect that 'everything was in place.' I'm not sure what exactly he meant by that but the tone of the interview was that they had the commercial market cornered, so what is the next thing? The next thing for them was finding a real champion, obviously commerciality will always come into it with an operation like this, but as seen from the eye-watering fees the likes of Frankel and STS could command in their first seasons, maybe it is where they view the future as being rather than cheap speed, which for the industry is unsustainable anyway. Given where he started, I'd say that pound for pound Montjeu was their best stallion of recent times, and he was you guessed it.... the most brilliant racehorse. they have changed their ways in short, the way they have campaigned the likes of Rip Van Winkle, Camelot and St Nicholas Abbey proves it. It is not about remaining unbeaten, but finding out who is the best, because with all the **** that is going to stud, that is where the money will be from now on. Also, I'd say it bothers them that they haven't had a 3-y-o in the mould of Frankel, STS or even a New Approach. It is a long time since one of theirs broke 130, I think Hawk Wing or High Chap may have been the last off the top of my head although twas before my time. |
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Roadrunner, those kind of things wouldn't be the kind of thing I'd use to find winners, but Trading Leather trod anything but the well trodden path of the usual Irish Derby winner. In fact I'd be surprised if any Irish Derby winner had ever run in both the Dante, Irish Guineas and that Curragh listed race he ran in. My advice to you is don't try to anticipate what Jim Bolger will do, there is no blueprint with that man, genius though he is.
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dante race tells you they always had the irish derby in mind, yeah they ran in the 2000 guineas, that wasnt the main target.
very clever getting the horse use to running around the curragh and increasing the distance of race, careful consideration of the form, was glaringly obvious. dawn approach running at epsom, strange decision. we now know leather trading was his real derby prospect, and thats why they went the dante route. clever, guineas run confused things regarding what the true level of the horse was, in the dante wasnt really beaten by much. j bolger dont know his methods very well, sounds like hes a bit more than just a trainer,due to the fact he breeds horses as well. |
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Neill d , a very well thought out piece re Coolmore , Not sure i can concur fully , but deserving of a reply...Thanks for taking the time ...
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Neil I agree with your post to a certain degree, its good that more and more horses are staying in training after their 3yo careers, back in the 80's for instance, the Sangster partnership would ship them off to stud almost at a whim, the likes of Golden Fleece and El Gran Senor were never giving a chance to prove their brilliance it was a commercial decision as the yanks at that time were paying big dollars, so why risk ruining a reputation?.
I don't know if it was luck or clairvoyance but to stand american bred Sadlers Wells in Ireland rather than America transformed Coolmore, either him or his offspring have simply dominated, so much so Coolmore have an embarrassment of riches that ruining one horses reputation to enhance another has become almost routine. But if I was Coolmore I wouldn't get too smug, what if Galileo kicked the bucket in the morning, there is no Sadlers, Montjeu or Danehill to fill the void, Darley have New Approach who looks like he is the only sire that can hold a candle to Galileo at the moment?. |
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I don't think New Approach will dominate as a stallion as I think his stock have temperament problems just like he did.
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Agree wildman they do look like they have a pulling problem, but as far as raw ability goes they certainly have it.
But then again Frankel pulled too and relaxed much better as he got older? |
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I tend to agree with Silvergreaser here,Coolmore have made a few mistakes in recent seasons whether Magnier has mellowed with age or perhaps the reality of mortality is dawning -A few seasons ago there is no way Camelot would have ran on bottomless ground at the Curragh or went for the triple crown.
Also what they are supposed to have paid for Canford Cliffs (Tagula) seems excessive. The Danehill line is very much secure tho with Fastnet Rock(Danehill)standing for $275,000 down under and the fee in Ireland is private,Danehill Dancer(Danehill) (€40,000),Duke of Marmalade(Danehill)(€17,500),mastercraftsman(€12,500),Holy Roman Emperor(€20,000)and Dylan Thomas(€10,000) The only son of Montjeu that they have standing between the three farms is Pour Moi(€17,500)but they will have his sons St.Nick and Camelot to come,but although Montjeu was a brilliant sire-he is not a proven sire of sires with his sons Hurricane run(stands in Germany now),Authourised,Frozen fire and Motivator all disappointing as sires. I think the only son of Galileo that Coolmore currently have standing is Rip van Winkle(€17,500)-Jim Bolger has been a thorn in their side here,successfully acting as an intermediary and supplying darley with 2 ready made Galileo stallions in New Approach(€50,000) and Teofilio(€35,000). There is no doubt that Darley have the potential to mount a challenge but it has to be extremely doubtful whether they are capable of delivering on the potential.As well as the 2 Galileo sires they also have cape cross(€35,000),Exceed and Excel(Danehill)(€35,000),Ravens Pass(€30,000),Shamardal(Giants Causeway)(€50,000)and Dubawi(€75,000). Coolmore's global dominance looks set to continue tho with sires in America such as Giants Causeway($85,000)Scat Daddy($35,000)and Uncle Mo($35,000)and down under High Chapparal($77,000),Encosta de lago ($55,000)and So you think (€66,000). With rumours of Prince Khallid Abdullah apparently down scaling his operation(believe he is pushing on and the children aren't interested in the industry)combined with Coolmore being short of a top class Galileo stallion just how much would Frankel be worth to them?? |
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Cheers workrider, more of a theory than anything else. There is the broodmare band aspect to the debate in this as well, Coolmore have their own plus a recipricol agreement agreement with Juddmonte. Coolmore and Juddmonte are said to have much better, faster broodmares than Godolphin. A deal of the success Galileo has had has been self-perpetuating maybe? If Canford Cliffs gets the support, (he might because he is a real outcross for Coolmore) he was a stunning looking race horse and absolutely top class to boot. He might overcome the Tagula factor.
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Juddmonte have an involvement in Galileo.
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Care to elaborate on that Gant??
The only agreement I am aware off is that Juddmonte send 10 of their mares to Galileo-Coolmore would have the pick of the crop one year and then Juddmonte would have the first choice the following year?? |
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I wonder is One True Love in need of a break after running 6 times in less than a month, 3 times in 7 days?, oh the poor horse must be tired by now and need at least 6 months off to recover?.
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Completely pointless in making comparisons with other horses....horses are individuals.....Some horses take racing well other's not so well...it really is that simple Silver......Very often difficult to know how much a race has taken out of a horse.
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JR I except the fact that some horses will take a little more time to get over a race than others, depending on ground and how hard a race the horse was given, but then again I've often seen horses win 3 times on bog ground at Towcester in less than a month in the dead of winter after having very hard races.
Its just that so much is excepted as fact in racing when many of racings excuses or myths if you like can be counter argued in spades. I despair sometimes when I hear someone say I don't think the horse got over his hard race at Cheltenham last year, although the horse didn't re-appear on a racetrack till the following November?. Maybe the horse just wasn't good enough?. |