.........Curragh Tomorrow.........

Yeah that main race cut up badly, only the Oliver horse that isn't owned by Coolmore for a €39,000 pot.

I notice 2 of last nights winners are standing their ground Illustrate and Fionnaur, also the proverbial bridesmaid tuesdays 3rd One True Love also looks likely to turn out again quickly.

Not a card to get the pulse racing would you say SILVERGREASER .I think starting what should be a highlight meeting with a card like that takes away from the weekend..Surely they could have put other races in to kick start the meeting...How much will the levy benefit from that 4 runner race , cant even be sure the 4 of them will turn out for it ..The rest of the card is mundane to say the least....

Its always been the same workrider, they usually put on a bit of entertainment for the locals to offset the mundane fare on offer on the racetrack.

Most Improved makes his debut for Aidan OBrien,this fellow won the St James Palace Stakes a year ago but finished last in his three runs since.

Can Aidan OBrien bring this lad back to his best?

Yes he can, that's what the best trainer in the World is so good at, and he has loadza previous in doing this, witness, Declaration of War, Oratorio, George Washington, Yeats (year in, year out), Septimus, K Fallon,  Wandering Thoughts, Life of a Lord, Seamie Heffernan, Starspangledbanner, Scorpion, Hawk Wing.

Jay, how did O'Brien improve Declaration of War, he raced twice in France and won twice, the 2nd time it was described as impressive, won by 8L's, so he was inheriting a horse with undoubted ability?.

I doubt he improved Starspangledbanner either as he was a 2 time Group one winner in Australia before been brought over here, another case of inheriting a horse with undoubted ability?.

Most of the rest you mentioned were trained by O'Brien only, which has me stumped as to why you mentioned those horses?.

As for the jockeys, how did he improve them?, I'd say the 2 jockeys were just glad to be riding such riches?.

You have me stumped with Wandering Thoughts?, are you mixing it up with another horse?.

The jumper Life of a Lord probably the only horse you could say improved by going to the national hunt O'Brien/Crowley.

I noticed you never mentioned "Excelebration", or is it the horse never improved as much as a pound going to O'Brien and all his wonderful facilities?.

Kinda of a strange post Jay?

Wandering Thoughts was moved to Aidan  OBriens from a small stable with a handicap mark,he then went on a winning spree and finally ending up listed class,I think it eas his first decent flat horse.

Can any of you computer literate gentlemen put up Wandering Thoughts victories.

The things i do for you !

http://www.irishracing.com/v5horseinfo?prt=98614&prw=W

Inadvertently you have scored your best goal.

Can you put it on this thread.

Its the same horse alright was with some guy called Leonard for its first 4 runs, then went into training under Annemarie O'Briens name, won one race under her name and 9 under Aidans, mostly handicaps but won 2 listed races.

His very last win was a listed race for Pat Flynn before the horses form tailed off badly.

Yeah you can say O'Brien improved this one.

21Sep96    Cur    7G    3y+ F(15K)    9-0[14/1]    1st of 9 0.75L to Ramooz (USA)    N G McCullagh   
09Jul94    Cur    8YS    3y+ F(15K)    9-6[7/4f]    1st of 4 2L to Terrible Confusion (IRE)    C Roche   
08Jun94    Leo    7G    3y+ F(15K)    9-5[9/2]    1st of 5 0.75L to Heart Lake (GB)    C Roche   
21May94    Cur    8GY    3y+ Hcap(10K)    10-0[100/30f]    1st of 12 1.5L to Tony's Fen (GB)    C Roche   
09Oct93    Cur    8SH    3y+ Hcap(10K)    8-12[3/1]    1st of 13 3L to Cheviot Amble (IRE)    J P Murtagh   
12Sep93    Cur    8GY    3y+ Hcap(15K)    8-2[13/2]    1st of 18 1.5L to Classic Match (IRE)    N G McCullagh   
24Aug93    Tra    7G    3y+ Hcap(7K)    8-4[7/1]    1st of 11 1L to El Zorro Dorado (IRE)    W J Supple   
04Aug93    Fai    9GF    3y+ Hcap(5K)    9-6[13/8f]    1st of 18 0.75L to Tinco Paleno    J R Barry   
26Jun93    Cur    9GY    3y+ Hcap(6K)    8-4[6/1]    1st of 16 1L to Saibot (USA)    J A Heffernan   
19Jun93    Gow    8GY    3y+ Hcap(5K)    7-12[2/1f]    1st of 9 nk to Thatching Craft (IRE)    D G O'Shea   
07Jun93    Tra    7G    3y+ Hcap(5K)    8-5[5/2f]    1st of 12 1.5L to Thatching Craft (IRE)    P V Gilson

6.00 dr funckenstein
I think going up in trip will bring the improvement needed to win

i thought i had erased wandering thoughts from my memory..i was part of a syndicate in the early 90s.not very succesful.we had 5 horses none any good we said we would give it one more go.pat flynn rang us and said he had a nice one eyed up for smallish money.at the end of the conversation out man said sure if hes no good he might jump a hurdle later on.pat deemed him  physically unsuitable for hurdling,so wandering thoughts slipped through our fingers..a few weeks later we bought our 6th and worst one.the rest is history as they say!!

Its a tough game kavvie for sure.

In the first at this evenings Curragh meeting, Johnny Murtagh could have chance on a daughter of Sea The Stars, 'Calorie'. You will find her breeding on RA's Flat Bulletin thread. From a good sprinting family, and most likely with JPM being so cute, he may have this race on the radar for 'Calorie" for some time, seems to be a nice little fancy for her on here as well. Betting close to the off, should enlighten............

jay it ran very well on debut and indeed would of been a lot closer if not being hampered by a faller.......i think this is an excellent ew bet tonight,time might tell that the winner of that race bracelet could be useful........

looks a nice sort that last winner did it well..

I wonder how all the Ballydoyle massive are getting on today? Usually a big weekend 6/4 to 4/6 unplaced 10/1 to 6/1 just beaten and 5/2 to 6/4 out with the washing.

Getting this comment in before the race. Not APOB's fault what price the Punters make his horses but this Most Improved has got "easy" ride written all over it. I think the other 2 will fight it out with a hands and heels jobbie for the jolly back in 3rd. No questions asked or answered

Count ourselves lucky golden girl Ana O'Brien didn't win the apprentice derby lustrumm or we'd never hear the end of it.
The same Ana who failed her test at the RACE school, but Daddy rather than swallow his pride decided to appeal against the race instructors decision, for once he failed an appeal, HRI couldnt afford to undermine one of their own RACE Instructors.

That is what happens when crews are allowed to do whatever they like. If you can get away with using the Racecourse as a training ground and not having to answer to anyone sure why not take advantage.

Mark my words: What Coolmore/Ballydoyle are at currently is setting Irish Racing as a Product back to the Dark ages. This is the kind of stuff that was banned 25 years ago

Yeah the market spoke in spades there what was going to happen.

Giving Flying the Flag his day in the sun by grabbing some black type, interesting to see how Most Improved fares on his next run?.

Interesting to see will the last fav turn out to be the Most Improved.

Ye Silver giving him his day in the sun and not forgetting to back him.

When I see clowns on here thinking that this is not a gambling crew I laugh to myself. These guys are in complete control of everything, answering to no-one, teeing up jobs and milking the mugs for all their worth with not a jot of thought to the consequences.

And OBVIOUSLY was delighted with Most Improved?, sent to the racecourse totally unfit by the sounds of that interview with obviously?

jesus!u need some1 like vinney brown to interview aob.

Take the money out of one and have it on the other.Anglo Irish are like altar boys in comparison...

rat i thought u wer in marbella ye guesser ye?

whats yre problem dickie?are u doing yre bollix!

I laid Most Improved at 1.93 about 5 35pm.

He starts at 5/4f.

Not a large drift in my book.

Nice to see Mark Monaghan get another winner. Apprentice derby.
He also won the Noblesse Stakes(G3) in Cork.

Very few rides this season. Let's hope things improve from now on in.

Sadly i backed this without even looking at it in the paddock , having got caught up talking with some old friends , Someone said in passing it was evens , looking at my racing post and noted that it was a 4/11 shot according to them .. I decided there was value to be had , and went down just as they were loading and backed MOST @ 5/4 ...Not much more to say really , just another chapter in Coolmores reading of the rules of racing.....

"Delighted with the run,he travelled strong but just got a bit tired, he had been off for a long time and was entitled to get tired. I'd rather start like that with him and work gently up. We'll sharpen him up now."  Trainer O'Brien on most improved.
Well if that isn't an admission that he was using the racecourse for a gallop. I don't know what is.

Exactly gotchee and where are the apologists?.

Funny if they want to get one fit for the guineas first time out after been off for at least 8 months previously they never seem to have a problem getting them rip roaring fit. All of his 5 English Guineas winners won at first time of asking.

lustrumm 28 Jun 13 19:25 Joined: 22 Jan 10 | Topic/replies: 2,036 | Blogger: lustrumm's blog
Getting this comment in before the race. Not APOB's fault what price the Punters make his horses but this Most Improved has got "easy" ride written all over it. I think the other 2 will fight it out with a hands and heels jobbie for the jolly back in 3rd. No questions asked or answered

An excellent post. Prophetic, James Randi would be impressed.

The Pious one goes to confession every Thurday night,

Pious one - listen forgive me father for I have sinned, listen its been 7 days since my last confession - Local priest - go ahead my son confess - Pious one - obviously as you know father I'm always very pious but listen I do regularly screw favourite backers over, obviously father I don't want to do it but obviously the lads tell me to do it, listen I stopped both Moth and Most Improved and listen father I know many punters would've backed them thinking they were good things but obviously they hadn't a clue that they were not fit enough to beat a beach donkey - Local Priest - Our Lord has forgiven you Aidan, I'll only give you one Hail Mary for your penance because you gave me two great tips in Venus de Milo and Flying the Flag, go now in peace and may the Lord be with you, Amen!.

Prescient post from Lustrumm alright well done.

I was there tonight and was at the parade ring before any horse entered it to have a look at Most Improved,what I saw shocked me this horse wasn't just unfit he was fat,horses carry condition in different ways and sometimes you can have varying degrees of fitness but this was so clear cut it was incredible.

I moved as fast as I could to the betting ring and backed Flying The Flag at 3/1 and Aloof at 7/2 I deserve no credit for this  because anyone with half an eye could tell the favourite was winning nothing.

Watching the horses going down you could see Most Improved was not only unfit but fat,I actually thought to myself Silvergreaser would go mad if he was here.

What happened tonight was far more serious than the Moth affair at Naas.

Did anybody mention on ATR that Most Improved was patently unfit,was there any talk about his run afterwards,that was the most unfit horse I have ever seen on a racecourse.

I didnt see Most Improved in the parade ring but he has had a number of racecourse gallops recently that didnt set the world alight which might explain his drift on the betting market tonight. He had become very disappointing last season after Ascot and was disappointing again tonight - I would have my doubts as to whether we will see him again

maybe most improved drifted because the smart money knew that most improved RPR 113 wasnt going to win, was giving 16 lbs in weight away
to the winner, flying the flag RPR 109 was only 4 lbs behind in the ratings, im sure few people must of realised that

Anyone who saw Most Improved in the parade ring  automatically became a layer,when I went into the betting ring I could see all the well known characters battering phones laying laying laying.

nothing to do with the ratings then? the winner was already placed 2nd in a group 2, only had 7 races and still improving.
would of been a miracle if most improved won that racing giving the winner 16 lbs in weight, improving 3yos are always
dangerous. not disagreeing the horse looked in bad condition in the ring. ratings are there for a reason. the derby run
was good form.

Absolutely nothing to do with ratings,the Derby run was not good form,the weight Most Improved was given was weight for age plus the five pound penalty for winning the St James Palace Stakes and finally if Most Improbed had been half fit he would have won.

That is it in a nutshell wildman, "Horse not half fit" This crew are using the Racecourse as part of the the training routine. Furthermore they are taking the decision to keep that information to themselves and punting accordingly. If they did that in the stock market it is a crime (well not in Ireland but in every properly run Country)
The same on Wednesday where Joseph decided not to bother making an effort on Moth and to wait for another day.

Even all the above I could deal with if they would come out and say so in advance.

Shame on all you people that have defended them. It has shown Naivety and stupidity and it is not good for Racing in Ireland.

To be honest at this stage I think Irish Racing would be better off without them involved. They can have their Stallions and breed them to race elsewhere

They have ruined Irish Racing. Power, control and greed is their goal which I believe they have systematically achieved.  Everyone is scared of them and nobody will question their tactics, not even the Turf Club. They pay little or no tax and to avoid paying they choose to live as tax exiles. They are not nice people.

know how the ratings work, so theres no point explaining to me about the WFA and penalty for group 1 success,
your theory then is that weight wouldnt of made any difference, only have to look at the profile to know the
winner was improving, derby form was good only beaten 6 lengths, stepping down 2 grades and distance. had every
chance to beat that fav at the weights, we can agree most improved didnt look good in the parade ring. your
idea of the winner would have to of improved past its RPR to win that race, giving all that weight away.
no doubt most improved could of made a race of it, was already a loser at the weights. especially against
3yo improving horse. both horses had raced 4 times in group 1 races, most improved 1 win, beaten over 80 lengths
in the other 3, flying the flag beaten total of 30 lengths in the 4 group1 races, MOST IMPROVED was having first
of the season.

Roadrunner with respect, while i do try to read the form myself its worthless if a horse is patently unfit.
Good post prerace. The horse was out for a gallop.

Same here pa, point taken roadrunner, but doesn't excuse the fact that Aidan O'Brien virtually said live on tv that Most Improved was only out for a school around, and Wildman confirmed that by witnessing the horse in the parade looking totally out of condition.

I just checked the Turf Clubs website to see was Moth included in the post race reports from Naas, seems the stewards at Naas must have been on the Gin as there was not one post race report from the entire meeting, its skips wednesdays Naas meeting altogether from Ballinrobe straight to Tipperary.

It is very worrying the way that organisation seem to be able to do as it likes ....I take full blame for backing MOST IMPROVED myself before a paddock inspection , surely they have questions to answer , if as reported by some on here , that the horse was blatantly unfit..The face of Irish racing is starting to look ugly....

3.40 flashy approach
6.30 trading leather
ive had a decent bet on both and a e/w double..im hoping bolgers will go close up in trip, oxx horse has had the form of his win franked
  good luck all

TONY , I think oxxs might have turned the corner , Dont forget those horses today e/w....

thanks wr..just seen rain has come at the course..trading leather chances diminish if it gets any more

I like him a lot having backed him heavy last time , I'm not really sure he's up to this standard if i'm honest....good luck with that bet...

It could be argued that last nights International Stakes G3 was set up for Flying the Flag to win. The way I see it is, they entered an unfit Most Improved to frighten off the opposition, which worked. Aloof has her G3 in the bag so there was no need to be too hard on her. Flying the flag, who only had a Mickey Mouse maiden win to his name, needed a Group win to inflate his reputation and therefore establish him as a stallion prospect.Last nights race was the ideal opportunity to get that valuable black type which was executed with military precision. Flying the Flag will not win any more Group Races and the likelihood is, he will dispached for big money to service mares in China.(Mark my words) The way he carries his head and the fact that he wears cheekpieces would not appeal to European Breeders. Thats the way that outfit works.

Agree gotchee many of these well bred smaller stakes winners from Coolmore will probably end up as part of this new Chinese bloodstock adventure Magnier has bought into.

Of course he only ever stands group one winners at Coolmore Stud and his other top studs around the world.

I also agree with that synopsis The Gotchee...

TONY .........PLEASE TELL ME YOU BACKED IT....

Coolmore have a bunch of average 3 year olds this year. Their best middle distance 3 year old, as I have previously stated, is Mars who given his chance today would have pi$$ed this race. Big mistake by the Coolmore form students.

See other thresd The Gothch, we were making that exact same point. They left the race behind. Some said that the Executive asked them not to be running so many as it is ruining the race. I guess they learnt their lesson yesterday and have made a G1 horse out of a horse that really many only ever have been a G3 horse.
The winner I think was the only horse to really relish the fast ground and he really loved it. He will be one for slaughter later on in the year when the ground softens

If Trading Leather can win an Irish Derby it has to be a really weak one. Mars is the Ballydoyle 3yo with the best long term prospects but so far they have made mess of his season. Not ready for the Guineas ran a decent race,didnt handle Epsom and why o why run in the St James Palace when there was a weak 10 furlong race for the taking. Like to see him take on an overrated Al Kaheem in the Eclipse.
Also have to say Joseph O'Brien is starting to look like a serious liability to the operation this season and would not suprise me to see developments on this . Coolmore is a big business .

yes mate..i had a decent bet on it..

Glad to hear ....