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24 May 13
12:54
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Date Joined:
11 Feb 10
In the last 5 runnings we've had 6,5,6,5,5 strong fields, this years field currently holds only 4 entries, in 4 of the last 5 running there has been 4 heavy odds on favs from Ballydoyle this year we have another one in Camelot, surely the European pattern committee will be reviewing this races current Group One status, because it attracts virtually nothing of note from overseas?.
Mick Channon sent the mighty Halicarnassus over twice Godolphin sent Cutlass Bay (3/1) and outsider Campanolgist (14/1), this year Roger Charlton has an entry in Al Kazeem who will probably stand his ground as the r/up spot looks a mere formality.
Neither Bolger, Oxx nor Weld could muster up an entry between them, its becoming a total farce of a contest?.
Mick Channon sent the mighty Halicarnassus over twice Godolphin sent Cutlass Bay (3/1) and outsider Campanolgist (14/1), this year Roger Charlton has an entry in Al Kazeem who will probably stand his ground as the r/up spot looks a mere formality.
Neither Bolger, Oxx nor Weld could muster up an entry between them, its becoming a total farce of a contest?.
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Is there not a mechanism whereby they assess the ratings of winners and placed horses over a rolling 3 year period in order to assess the continuation of its status?
I don't think small fields come into their assessment but I would agree that it is becoming a farce.
I don't think small fields come into their assessment but I would agree that it is becoming a farce.
Yeh Tolmi this is how it works,
"A Group race must meet the ratings criteria over a rolling three-year period. Group 1 races require an average rating for the first four home to be 115. A Group 2 race is 110, a Group 3 race 105 and Listed must be 100.
The average rating is that which the first four horses achieve by the end of the season, and not in the race itself."
Sounds very much like a flawed system to me, the French 2000 guineas is in serious danger of been downgraded yet every year it seems to attract big competitive fields, the quality of 3yr olds every year varies, the English guineas has always been the main draw and nearly always attracts the best of the 3yo brigade, the French guineas place in the calender doesnt help as it comes too close to the English guineas, the Irish guineas is helped by been 3 weeks later, hence why it often attracts winners and placed horses from both English guineas.
So You Think, beat 5 horses in 2011 & 2012 in the TGC, 2011 he beat Camponoligist, Famous Name and 2 100/1 shots, the following year he beat famous name again.
SYT already has a rating in the mid 120's while Famous Name comes out and picks up a host of weakly contested listed and group 3 races which keeps his rating ticking over in the 116+ bracket, does anyone think Famous Name would ever win a group one race?. Yet the Tatterslls as a group one contest seems safe as houses because a highly rated heavy odds on shot wins it against virtual no hopers, the pattern committees system is obviously flawed?.
I think the biggest problem is that there are far too many group one contests between England, France and Ireland and you can even throw in Germany and Italy which were often used as soft touches to pick up group one status for lesser lights, not to mention the host of group 2 and 3 contests.
There has been 62 more group races added to the British and Irish calenders since 1996, yes we all like our group racing but when you have too many group races, horses tend to avoid each other, trainers and owners picking and choosing the easier targets, hence very uncompetitive races?.
"A Group race must meet the ratings criteria over a rolling three-year period. Group 1 races require an average rating for the first four home to be 115. A Group 2 race is 110, a Group 3 race 105 and Listed must be 100.
The average rating is that which the first four horses achieve by the end of the season, and not in the race itself."
Sounds very much like a flawed system to me, the French 2000 guineas is in serious danger of been downgraded yet every year it seems to attract big competitive fields, the quality of 3yr olds every year varies, the English guineas has always been the main draw and nearly always attracts the best of the 3yo brigade, the French guineas place in the calender doesnt help as it comes too close to the English guineas, the Irish guineas is helped by been 3 weeks later, hence why it often attracts winners and placed horses from both English guineas.
So You Think, beat 5 horses in 2011 & 2012 in the TGC, 2011 he beat Camponoligist, Famous Name and 2 100/1 shots, the following year he beat famous name again.
SYT already has a rating in the mid 120's while Famous Name comes out and picks up a host of weakly contested listed and group 3 races which keeps his rating ticking over in the 116+ bracket, does anyone think Famous Name would ever win a group one race?. Yet the Tatterslls as a group one contest seems safe as houses because a highly rated heavy odds on shot wins it against virtual no hopers, the pattern committees system is obviously flawed?.
I think the biggest problem is that there are far too many group one contests between England, France and Ireland and you can even throw in Germany and Italy which were often used as soft touches to pick up group one status for lesser lights, not to mention the host of group 2 and 3 contests.
There has been 62 more group races added to the British and Irish calenders since 1996, yes we all like our group racing but when you have too many group races, horses tend to avoid each other, trainers and owners picking and choosing the easier targets, hence very uncompetitive races?.
Tips, Al Kazeem is a decent horse but his group 2 Jockey Club win seemed to fly in the face of anything he achieved before but that was over further and on softish ground, you can pick plenty of holes in the horses previous form, yes I know Camelots 3yo victims have done nothing to boost his form and he was well beaten in the Arc when put in against decent opponents for the first time, but I still think he'll have too much speed for Al Kazeem.
Arent we lucky that Charlton is at least sending him over or it could have turned into the biggest farce of group one contest ever?.
Arent we lucky that Charlton is at least sending him over or it could have turned into the biggest farce of group one contest ever?.
Shame Dermot Weld isnt running Princess Highway to support the race as its Group 1 status will be definitely jeopardised by this 'match' race - race is a shadow of its former self with nobody willing to take on the Ballydoyle hotpot except Godolphin when they had good horses which seems a long time ago
I think he should be relegated to a Group 2. Its too early in the season....especially with the that Group 1 at Epsom for older horses over a week later.
I think its safe as a g1 for a long while. turnout has no bearing. Politics has a fair amount to do with it but essentially as long as you have group1 winners contesting it and group1 winners comming from it then its pretty easy to justify it to the committee that makes the decision. that's why the french restuctured their g1s with the derby now 10.5f to attract classy milers...they were in massive danger of being downgraded...personally think they should've taken that downgrading because turning the race into a 25 runner wildhouse is just a joke.
guys if you think the tattersals is bad then just have a look at some of g1s in germany and italy that are basically listed races. plenty to be proud of imo.
guys if you think the tattersals is bad then just have a look at some of g1s in germany and italy that are basically listed races. plenty to be proud of imo.
Good to see a British winner of it tbh....
Keeps the race moving forward anyways
Keeps the race moving forward anyways
A 2 horse group one?? think about it guys something wrong somewhere?
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