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He couldn't have been more impressive at Newmarket (making fools out of a few of us only this game does).What are the forumites opinions on his chances at Epsom(2.58)?
Telescope no longer runs in the Dante tomorrow and must be an unlikely runner at Epsom(out to 20.0 on here).
Aidan O' Brien will be mob handed and will surely attempt to place an emphasis on stamina like their unsuccessful ploy to beat Sea the Stars with Fame and Glory,Rip Van Winkle,Golden Sword etc(He had second,third,fourth ,fifth and seventh that year).
Battle of marengo is a grinder and wasn't visually impressive in the Derrinstown over 10f,the 12f will certainly suit but does he have the speed to win at Epsom.
Ruler of the world is the most likely of the Chester trial winners according to the betting but what did he beat??
You'd almost forget that when Guineas winner Sea the Stars won the Derby, it had been 20 years since a horse had completed the same double. (Nashwan in 1989). In the last 25 years, 12 horses have tried to do the same and only three succeeded. Guineas winners such as Refuse To Bend, Golan, Entrepreneur, Pennekamp and Rodrigo De Triano all started as the favourite at Epsom yet failed to deliver.
Then there is Dawn Approach himself. Although it is hard to argue with the fact that both Dawn Approach's sire (New Approach) and grandsire (Galileo) won the Derby, it seems there is a lack of stamina and class in the bottom half of his pedigree.
His dam Hymn Of The Dawn ran five times and her form reads "48990". In addition to the fact that she wasn't a winner, she is by Phone Trick. Himself a sprinter, he predominantly sired sprinters. In fact, he hasn't produced any noteworthy winners that have won over distances beyond a mile. Hymn Of The Dawn has produced one other winner, Comadoir. He won his three races over five, six and seven furlongs.
What most Derby winners have in common are dams who are either classy black-type performers or represent a strong influence of stamina.
Last 5 Epsom Derby winners
Camelot-Camelot, his dam Tarfah won five of her eight starts including the Group 3 Dahlia Stakes over 1m1f.
Pour Moi-Also by Montjeu,he is out of the unraced Darshaan mare Gwynn (an influence for stamina). Prior to Pour Moi, Gwynn had already produced Irish Oaks third Gagnoa.
Workforce-Workforce is out of the Sadler's Wells mare Soviet Moon. She is a sister to St Leger winner Brian Boru.
Sea the stars-dam was Arc winner Urban Sea, who had already produced Derby winner Galileo.
New Approach- is out of Irish Champion Stakes winner Park Express.
All three winners of the Guineas-Derby double in the last 25 years were out of Group-winning mares.
Dawn Approach will have to overcome the fact that his dam is not a winner or an influence on stamina but quite possible he's class and ability to settle will see him oblige??
Telescope no longer runs in the Dante tomorrow and must be an unlikely runner at Epsom(out to 20.0 on here).
Aidan O' Brien will be mob handed and will surely attempt to place an emphasis on stamina like their unsuccessful ploy to beat Sea the Stars with Fame and Glory,Rip Van Winkle,Golden Sword etc(He had second,third,fourth ,fifth and seventh that year).
Battle of marengo is a grinder and wasn't visually impressive in the Derrinstown over 10f,the 12f will certainly suit but does he have the speed to win at Epsom.
Ruler of the world is the most likely of the Chester trial winners according to the betting but what did he beat??
You'd almost forget that when Guineas winner Sea the Stars won the Derby, it had been 20 years since a horse had completed the same double. (Nashwan in 1989). In the last 25 years, 12 horses have tried to do the same and only three succeeded. Guineas winners such as Refuse To Bend, Golan, Entrepreneur, Pennekamp and Rodrigo De Triano all started as the favourite at Epsom yet failed to deliver.
Then there is Dawn Approach himself. Although it is hard to argue with the fact that both Dawn Approach's sire (New Approach) and grandsire (Galileo) won the Derby, it seems there is a lack of stamina and class in the bottom half of his pedigree.
His dam Hymn Of The Dawn ran five times and her form reads "48990". In addition to the fact that she wasn't a winner, she is by Phone Trick. Himself a sprinter, he predominantly sired sprinters. In fact, he hasn't produced any noteworthy winners that have won over distances beyond a mile. Hymn Of The Dawn has produced one other winner, Comadoir. He won his three races over five, six and seven furlongs.
What most Derby winners have in common are dams who are either classy black-type performers or represent a strong influence of stamina.
Last 5 Epsom Derby winners
Camelot-Camelot, his dam Tarfah won five of her eight starts including the Group 3 Dahlia Stakes over 1m1f.
Pour Moi-Also by Montjeu,he is out of the unraced Darshaan mare Gwynn (an influence for stamina). Prior to Pour Moi, Gwynn had already produced Irish Oaks third Gagnoa.
Workforce-Workforce is out of the Sadler's Wells mare Soviet Moon. She is a sister to St Leger winner Brian Boru.
Sea the stars-dam was Arc winner Urban Sea, who had already produced Derby winner Galileo.
New Approach- is out of Irish Champion Stakes winner Park Express.
All three winners of the Guineas-Derby double in the last 25 years were out of Group-winning mares.
Dawn Approach will have to overcome the fact that his dam is not a winner or an influence on stamina but quite possible he's class and ability to settle will see him oblige??
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thanks dj i will be going in on dawn approach again after reading this.......ohh and fairyinthewind was first horse beat at wincanton......fairyinthewoods won the 2.05 at kenilworth if thats anygood to ye........
No where in my post did I recommend a lay of Dawn Approach Richters-he's a very worthy favourite.
I started the thread as a topic to discuss because I enjoy reading and value some posters opinions on racing.
Your sniping reply is exactly the reason that discourages people from posting on here but I think the vast majority of posters are more than aware of your form by now.
I started the thread as a topic to discuss because I enjoy reading and value some posters opinions on racing.
Your sniping reply is exactly the reason that discourages people from posting on here but I think the vast majority of posters are more than aware of your form by now.
read my reply slowly this time.......where did i say you were laying dawn approach please?
dj for a man who enjoys and talks about racing as much as you do you would think ye would get it right now and again in the big races.....but none of your darts are even hitting the board.......
Richters bet he is sorry he went to the time and trouble to put up a well written racing thread.
He wasn,t stopping in the 2000,beaten easily whatever has been put against him on both sides of the channel,no reason to think anyone will either even over the extra 1/2 mile. He is game and finds which given the probable switched off in midfield ride would make me not be too worried.May find trouble on someone coming back to him which would be a slight worry.
Only real question mark may be the French horses,hard to know what they are.No idea of their running plans whether they are committed or not thought Bravadino at 90,s here would be a sporting bet if lining up,Intello would have been interesting but doesn,t look likely.
He wasn,t stopping in the 2000,beaten easily whatever has been put against him on both sides of the channel,no reason to think anyone will either even over the extra 1/2 mile. He is game and finds which given the probable switched off in midfield ride would make me not be too worried.May find trouble on someone coming back to him which would be a slight worry.
Only real question mark may be the French horses,hard to know what they are.No idea of their running plans whether they are committed or not thought Bravadino at 90,s here would be a sporting bet if lining up,Intello would have been interesting but doesn,t look likely.
pa he is quick to snipe on my threads if you look back.......
trainer thinks he,ll stay dj thats enough for me..nice write up...it would be nice to get along lads..we have enough badness..best of luck to you both..great point about him finding pa..an
Enjoyable piece dj876 ....I think this fellow is there to be beaten ...He won the gns like a real good un and the only hope the others have is he wont stay ....I'm a true believer in breeding , This lad will find it difficult on breeding to get the trip at Epsom , but we all know how often horses make fools of us , I'LL be delighted if i'm proved wrong ...This is the race Wildmanfromborneo should have waited to for lay this fellow...
wr
his trainer is as shrewd as they come and he had a smirk on his face when asked if this monster will stay and he is confident..i think this one is the best since sea the stars..
his trainer is as shrewd as they come and he had a smirk on his face when asked if this monster will stay and he is confident..i think this one is the best since sea the stars..
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