Irish Sports
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27 Apr 13
20:31
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16 Mar 11
I doubted Willie before on his ability to keep his best horses fit and at times very frustrated with the training of Gigginstown horses.
However this has been a truly record breaking season where he has taken domination to a completely different level. He has sourced some incredible talents from France and himself and that chap at the sales (name escapes me) have done a great job. Some other very horses that have top pedigree's didnt even run like Faugheen and Flash of Genius. There is still more talent in that stable to be seen that we didn't.
Honourable mentions to Dessie Hughes(Who i said would have a massive season)
one thing I did get right of the very few. Mouse Morris and Henry De Bromhead of course have done a great job with there realitively small strings. Elliott also keeps moving forward every year.
Less said about Noel Meade the better...rubbish excuses as usual. Taffee, O Grady, HarringtoN etc all have realtively ordinary years(Power riding Jetski
).
A bow my Cap to Willie and more so to Paddy Mullins. What a sire!
However this has been a truly record breaking season where he has taken domination to a completely different level. He has sourced some incredible talents from France and himself and that chap at the sales (name escapes me) have done a great job. Some other very horses that have top pedigree's didnt even run like Faugheen and Flash of Genius. There is still more talent in that stable to be seen that we didn't.
Honourable mentions to Dessie Hughes(Who i said would have a massive season)
one thing I did get right of the very few. Mouse Morris and Henry De Bromhead of course have done a great job with there realitively small strings. Elliott also keeps moving forward every year.Less said about Noel Meade the better...rubbish excuses as usual. Taffee, O Grady, HarringtoN etc all have realtively ordinary years(Power riding Jetski
).A bow my Cap to Willie and more so to Paddy Mullins. What a sire!
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Replies: 39
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Riches golore. im looking forward to seeing Faugheen ..a lot of talk about him a while back on these threads.
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never seen anything like it...........what do they feed those horses in france?
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is it good for irish racing?
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20 irish bred winners at cheltenham.
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getting much harder for the small trainer to have an effect against the power n wealth though,thats life i guess
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i for one an=m not joining in the rte/mullins/ruby/ted love in
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20 Irish bred at Cheltenham but how many of Willies 14 winners this week were French bred?, Hurricane Fly was Irish bred but bought out of France.
8 V 6 in favour of the French. Sprinter Sacre, Kauto Star and Long Run are all French bred to name just a few, Ireland's once dominant position in the National hunt breeding stakes has been well and truely shattered over the last decade or so. Paying big money for what are for the most part already proven horses is the way to go these days it seems?. French horses run over jumps at 3 years of age. I know Edredon Bleu was French bred but it seems the success of the very expensive Kauto Star has triggered something equivalent to the great California gold rush of the 1850's?. |
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Grade one winners this week either French bred or bought out of training in France,
Sprinter Sacre, Sir Des Champ, Quevega, Hurricane Fly, Arvika Legionnaire, Un Atout (has there been a worse grade one all season?) Diakali. I think there was 12 grade ones in all grades, 7 french if you include Hurricane Fly?, 5 Irish and one English The Liquadator, conclusive proof that the tide has turned dramatically in favour of French breds, this in the space of less than a decade, and no sign of it abating?. |
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Is there a leading NH owner/operation in Ireland that covers purchase/training/other operation costs from prize money won???
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Can you elaborate on that dj?
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I don't worry in terms of the NH breeding in Ireland tbh. Its very strong still. France has become a big rival but that is good for the game.
Willie domination may not be good for the game in terms of him having 4 runner in a 6 runner grade 1 but thats not his fault. Winning in Japan another incredible achievement |
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Off Subject but listening to Eamonn Dunphy taking the moralistic higher ground on the abortion debate on Mar.Fin.and then the Hypochrit declaring that Sheikh Mo has to be treated with compassion because of his importance to the racing industry.
I can't understand how this convicted drunk driver is giving such air time-A sound byte spoofer imo. Silver G-Elaborate on what??I don't believe JP,Giggy or Ricci can cover their costs via prize money. |
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To be fair Dunphy is just a figure of fun......controversial to earn a crust.
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Earning a lot more than a crust funded by the tax payer's Licence fees of this "kip of a country".
He shouldn't be on the show but himself and Marian are Buddies via the racing click. |
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agree dj there in it for the sport when you consider Ricci has spent well in excess of €5 million on 30 horses he has in training with Mullins not to mention training fees, recuperating his losses was never really a consideration.
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dj.....Sure what would Dunphy know about racing.
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I wouldn't respect his opinion on any topic Gant.
Silver G-It's amazing that these tough nosed Business men/financiers have no problem funding a hobby costing them a couple of million per year(though I am sure the Jp "Operation" is profitable). Fair enough JP/MOL are worth in excess of half a billion but Barry Connell /Ricci(Even with his Barclay bonuses/exit)can't be worth much more than 100m.It creates a completely false market. Fair Dues to them or is there a loophole relating to losses or someth. that we are missing?? |
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"the Jp operation is profitable", jasus DJ are you serious. e4 million in training fees per year alone . Article in RP on Thursday. No Freddy Williams anymore. Where is he recouping this outlay.
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Oufies Pal
You don't reckon Ciaran McManus and Co. are eeking out 80k per week?? |
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CO = How many "O'Gormans" are working at Jackdaws?
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Even if they are which i doubt very much they have only covered training fees alone . what about entries , vets, transport ,breeding and the rest. JP is almost carrying Irish on his shoulders , no JP no Irish racing. Has to be sacrificing some serious reddies to do so. If its profitable fair play to them. If its not even more credit to them. A lot of trainers would be forking **** in WP Mullins yard if it were not for JP McManus.
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Wouldnt be known to buy lower priced horse flesh either to be fair.
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Anyone that believes all this "Saint JP" tosh is very naive.The man deserves an oscar for some of his Love ins with RTE for feigning modesty.How he originally funded his starting stake leaves a lot to be desired!
Oufies Pal you obviously didn't pick up on the "O Gormans" reference-there is more than one way to skin a cat. |
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One does not need a Freddy Williams to make money. There is still plenty of scope especially if one has all the info.
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Still aint got it DJ. Elaborate please
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Surely never
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Long Live King JP-The punter's Pal and Philantropist Supremo.Well when ya couldn't understand how it could be possible to make 8ok per week without Freddie-I thought it needed to be spelled out for ya.GL. |
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did he work down south some time ago?limerick area.
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Yup probably still works there.
Can't see why you think it's impossible that the operation isn't covering its costs?? No JP -No irish racing = a true patriot. |
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Actually i have no great love for the gut at all but if he were not there things would be in a hell of a worse state. As for covering their costs ill bow to your greater knowledge on the matter. Lots of blatant non jiggers most days through out the season for sure. |
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knowing them is the problem!!
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JP is a parasite and vulture. Fkuc off to Switzerland or wherever you claim residency because you have done nothing for this country.
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exatly gotchee but magnier is even worse, at least JP is in it for the fun of it.
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Silvergreaser
Irish Bred horses dominated Cheltenham and French Bred horses held the upper edge at Punchestown. Although you try to give Hurrican Fly to France he is in fact irish bred. In the same way as Quito De la Roque and Al Ferof were Irish Pointers and are in fact french bred. So your thoughts that the tide has turned is a little dramatic and as much as i love my own - Cheltenham is more important. At that festival which you may have missed they have a Gold Cup Race won by Bobs Worth - IRISH BRED In fact irish Bred Horses won 20 yes TWENTY races at Cheltenham including 8 of the twelve Grade 1's and indeed all seven winners on day one I think you are jumping on a non existent bandwagon there Silvergreaser. French breds are very strong with horses like Sprinter Sacre, Kauto and Long Run but we still have a strong irish challenge as Cheltenham proved. |
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Now i am no breeding expert but surely Quevega isnt Irish bred and i doubt if Rajdhani Express is either,so this notion of all seven winners on day one being Irish bred is a fairly fanciful one. The 20 Irish bred winners is more than likely an exaggeration as well.
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childsac I know that but 20 years ago Itish breds would probably have won virtually every race at Cheltenham?, but most of th4e grade ones seem to be the bastion of the French bred
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Silvergreaser is right again. 20 years ago Irish breds won most races at Cheltenham but nowadays French breds have a massive influence on National Hunt bred horses. When a horse is foaled in Ireland its deemed to be bred in Ireland. A foal conceived in France but born in Ireland is deemed to be Irish bred. Irish breeders try to claim everything that has some bit of Irish in it irrespective of where it is bred. Lets look at the winners on the first day at Cheltenham.
Champagne Fever (IRE) Born in Ireland by a GB sire out of a mare by a French sire Race record 6-y-o (26May07 gr g) Stowaway — Forever Bubbles (IRE) (Roselier (FR ) (16.0f)) Trainer W P Mullins Owner Mrs S Ricci Breeder John P Cahill Simonsig Born in GB by a sire who is by a French sire out of a GB mare Race record 7-y-o (02May06 gr g) Fair Mix (IRE) (13.0f) — Dusty Too (Terimon (12.0f)) Trainer Nicky Henderson Owner R A Bartlett Breeder Simon Tindall Golden Chieftain (IRE) Born in Ireland by an American sire out of a german mare Race record 8-y-o (14May05 b g) Tikkanen (USA) — Golden Flower (GER) (Highland Chieftain ) Trainer Colin Tizzard Owner Brocade Racing Breeder Robert Donaldson Hurricane Fly (IRE) Born in Ireland,his sire has a French dam and damsire is also French Race record 9-y-o (05Apr04 b g) Montjeu (IRE) (11.7f) — Scandisk (IRE) (Kenmare (FR ) (9.8f)) Trainer W P Mullins Owner George Creighton & Mrs Rose Boyd Breeder Agricola Del Parco Quevega (FR) French all the way Race record 9-y-o (11Apr04 b m) Robin Des Champs (FR) — Vega IV (FR) (Cap Martin (FR ) ) Trainer W P Mullins Owner Hammer & Trowel Syndicate Breeder Pierre Rives Rajdhani Express Born in GB by a GB sire out of a French dam Race record 6-y-o (18Apr07 br g) Presenting (14.1f) — Violet Express (FR) (Cadoudal (FR ) (18.0f)) Trainer Nicky Henderson Owner Robert Waley-Cohen Breeder Upton Viva Stud A proper analysis shows that there is very little Irish in a lot of these so called "Irish Bred" winners. The French influence is significant to say the least. |
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Silver is bound to get it right once in a while!
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So French bred's are doing well. Irish has been the leader for decades.
As for the comment on Magnier, Magnier is the game to make as much money as possible, If I was him I would do exactly the same. Money Money MONEY BABY!! |