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05 Mar 13
10:06
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Date Joined:
30 Nov 10
Sad to see this top class jockey retire,there seems to have been a fall out between him and Culloty.
However this jockeys career was damaged by his ride of Solwhit in a Fairyhouse handicap,he should have received praise for his efforts instead all he got was grief,he was subject to a barrage of phone calls the content of these bothered him so much he handed in his phone to the stewards,they did nothing.
He was treated badly then and it had some ramifications for him,I wish him all the best.
However this jockeys career was damaged by his ride of Solwhit in a Fairyhouse handicap,he should have received praise for his efforts instead all he got was grief,he was subject to a barrage of phone calls the content of these bothered him so much he handed in his phone to the stewards,they did nothing.
He was treated badly then and it had some ramifications for him,I wish him all the best.
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DJ876, Niall Cronin has announced his retirement as he only had 4 riders on his books and with Tom Doyles retirement,it wasnt worth his while continuing. He forgot to mention that one of his other clients is heading for another "retirement" shortly.
Alot seems to have been written about that fairyhouse incident,i dont know what happened exactly but if as people claim Doyle deliberately ignored orders then he cant really get much sympathy from other trainers,because if he has a mind of his own,then other people wont want to touch him,and rightly so.
Alot seems to have been written about that fairyhouse incident,i dont know what happened exactly but if as people claim Doyle deliberately ignored orders then he cant really get much sympathy from other trainers,because if he has a mind of his own,then other people wont want to touch him,and rightly so.
That's a novel way of putting it,if orders are illegal he has to break them.
The extraordinary part of the story was the over the top reaction of the normally mild mannered trainer,he has got to learn to take the good with the bad.
Remember J V Smith.
The extraordinary part of the story was the over the top reaction of the normally mild mannered trainer,he has got to learn to take the good with the bad.
Remember J V Smith.
Jimeen says "Alot seems to have been written about that fairyhouse incident"
in fact quite the opposite very little at all has been written about it, when you consider the race in question was linked to the Byrne's stable employee and the laying of the stable runners on here.
in fact quite the opposite very little at all has been written about it, when you consider the race in question was linked to the Byrne's stable employee and the laying of the stable runners on here.
JV Smith was before my time,but i have heard the story. Most jockeys ride to orders every single day,bar the elite band at the top of the tree,the rest have no choice. If my memory serves me correctly the fog was awful that day,so there was no excuses. It was a blatant double cross,it couldnt have been anything else.
I will tell you a little story about something that happened me in a novice chase in 2012. Fancied a horse quite strongly one evening and went to the trouble of finding out was everything ok with the said animal. A good friend of mine who lived locally to the outfit assured me that the horse was in good shape and the trainer who isnt a huge punter had a monkey on,which would be his max bet. This horse was a front runner and an exuberant jumper who with a bit of luck would stretch the opposition from the start,and on top of that his inexperienced and i mean useless regular rider was being replaced by a good professional,who was widely recognised as being a very good front running chase jockey. When the betting opened it hovered around the 2/1 mark,maybe a fraction under,so i rang an associate who was of similar thinking,and asked him to start feeding money into the normally light betdack market. Normally it isnt easy to get on,but this time it was no problem. He likened it to putting your hand into a pirhana bowl,the money was being gobbled that quickly. Between the 2 of us,not far off five figures was invested at around 3.25. Now it was worrying to see the slide continue and at the off it was nigh on 4/1 to back for lumps. From experience you just knew you were in real bother,and i started to watch the race with alot less hope than normal. It set off in front as expected but not with the normal zest that i had anticipated,and sure enough at half way it relinquished the lead and slowly but surely dropped back to a never threatening fourth,without any resistance from the rider. That was the position i think it maintained when it went by the line. Now wildman when somebody is prepared to go 4/1 a 2 chance,alarm bells ring . It wasnt the owner or trainer that was behind it,so there isnt too many left it could be.
I will tell you a little story about something that happened me in a novice chase in 2012. Fancied a horse quite strongly one evening and went to the trouble of finding out was everything ok with the said animal. A good friend of mine who lived locally to the outfit assured me that the horse was in good shape and the trainer who isnt a huge punter had a monkey on,which would be his max bet. This horse was a front runner and an exuberant jumper who with a bit of luck would stretch the opposition from the start,and on top of that his inexperienced and i mean useless regular rider was being replaced by a good professional,who was widely recognised as being a very good front running chase jockey. When the betting opened it hovered around the 2/1 mark,maybe a fraction under,so i rang an associate who was of similar thinking,and asked him to start feeding money into the normally light betdack market. Normally it isnt easy to get on,but this time it was no problem. He likened it to putting your hand into a pirhana bowl,the money was being gobbled that quickly. Between the 2 of us,not far off five figures was invested at around 3.25. Now it was worrying to see the slide continue and at the off it was nigh on 4/1 to back for lumps. From experience you just knew you were in real bother,and i started to watch the race with alot less hope than normal. It set off in front as expected but not with the normal zest that i had anticipated,and sure enough at half way it relinquished the lead and slowly but surely dropped back to a never threatening fourth,without any resistance from the rider. That was the position i think it maintained when it went by the line. Now wildman when somebody is prepared to go 4/1 a 2 chance,alarm bells ring . It wasnt the owner or trainer that was behind it,so there isnt too many left it could be.
Is it not more likely that the jockey feared for his licence.
It is fairly obvious that the trainer felt he was double crossed but I don't agree,I accept it was foggy but a jockey riding in a race could never be sure that his actions would not be on camera.
I think all of us at some stage have got that sinking feeling when are bets are matched far too quickly especially in what appears a weak market but I wouldn't be as sure as you that it is the jockey,people have this idea here that there are loads of jockeys with agents laying their mounts,not true in my opinion.
There is a heck of a difference between a jockey telling someone he doesn't think he will win and him stopping it.
It is fairly obvious that the trainer felt he was double crossed but I don't agree,I accept it was foggy but a jockey riding in a race could never be sure that his actions would not be on camera.
I think all of us at some stage have got that sinking feeling when are bets are matched far too quickly especially in what appears a weak market but I wouldn't be as sure as you that it is the jockey,people have this idea here that there are loads of jockeys with agents laying their mounts,not true in my opinion.
There is a heck of a difference between a jockey telling someone he doesn't think he will win and him stopping it.
Wildmanfromborneo, nobody risks this kind of money on the opinion of a jockey . Nobody will go double the odds a racehorse unless they are certain as they can possibly be that it will not be around . As for the cameras in fairyhouse that day,the meeting shouldn't have been on . You could not see the last hurdle on that day,he could have done what he liked ,and he did.
Your last line is an acknowledgement that he was asked to stop it.
A question for you what have Tom Doyle Lucinda Creighton and Tony Martin got in common.
A question for you what have Tom Doyle Lucinda Creighton and Tony Martin got in common.
My last line isn't an acknowledgement of anything,I know nothing about this incident. I don't know what those 3 people have in common ,I actually don't know who lucinda creighton is.
She is a junior minister in the government with responsibility for Europe and a member of Fine Gael.
The answer could be said to prove your earlier points.
The answer could be said to prove your earlier points.
Excuse my ignorance,that just shows how much I am in touch with the real world. Current affairs is not really my thing anymore. As for the connection,again I am totally lost.
John O'Gorman - Referral PDF Print E-mail
John O’Gorman
Laying of Horses Referral
The Referrals Committee Dr. Gordon A. Holmes (in the Chair), Mrs. J.O. Onions and Mr. John Powell met in the Turf Club, The Curragh, Co. Kildare on 28th January 2010 to consider the referral of Mr. John O’Gorman, stable employee of Mr. Charles Byrnes, trainer, by Denis Egan, Chief Executive of the Turf Club, in respect of a possible breach of Rule 273 (xiv) 4(b) which prohibits the holder of a racing establishment employee card to lay any horse under the care and control of the trainer for whom he is employed to lose a race with any person or betting organisation.
Evidence was heard from Mr. Hugh Hynes, Turf Club Integrity Analyst and from Mr. John O’Gorman, who admitted laying nine horses trained by Mr. Charles Byrnes to lose between the dates of 8th May 2008 and 21st December 2008. Details of the horses laid are set out in the attached schedule. The Committee also considered representations made by Mr. Byrnes on behalf of Mr. O’Gorman.
Having considered the evidence, the Committee noted that the laying of horses to lose by a racing establishment employee card holder when employed in a trainers yard seriously damages the integrity of racing and that the appropriate penalty for such an offence would be in the region of twelve months. However, in mitigation the Committee acknowledged that Mr. O’Gorman had admitted the offence at an early stage and cooperated fully with the investigation. Having regard for all these circumstances, the Committee imposed a four month disqualification on Mr. O’Gorman with effect from today’s date.
RACES BREACHING RULE 273 (xiv) 4. (b)
(Including betting values)
TWOFAN (USA) 6.25 Clonmel, 8th May 2008
Result: Pulled up, 16 runners.
Placed €1,043.01 on the horse to win. Laid €1,252.48 on the horse risking a net liability of €1,306.58 if the horse had won. Profit from these back and lay transactions totalled €209.47
ROCHESTER ROW (USA) 8.45 Roscommon, 7th July 2008
Result: Finished 13th of 18 runners.
Laid €28.36 risking a liability of €49.09 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €28.36
EHOWEE (IRE) 7.35 Down Royal, 3rd September 2008
Result: Finished 14th of 16 runners.
Laid €22, risking a liability of €181.30 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €22.
MASK OF DARKNESS (IRE) 3.25 Tralee, 30th September 2008
Result: Finished 11th of 20 runners.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €75 if the horse had won.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €25 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €10.
LISKENNETT (IRE) 1.55 Navan, 9th November 2008
Result: Finished 8th of 10 runners.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €22.15 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €5.
MERCHENT PADDY (IRE) 2.50 Gowran, 22nd November 2008
Result: Finished 8th of 14 runners.
Laid €52.17 risking a liability of €1,032.74 if the horse had won.
Laid €293.41 risking a liability of €1,629.80 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from these lay transactions totalled €345.58.
TWOFAN (USA) 3.25 Fairyhouse, 22nd November 2008
Result: Unseated Rider, 12 runners.
Laid €87.20 risking a liability of €1,599.64 if the horse had won.
Laid €124.00 risking a liability of €596.30 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from these lay transactions totalled €211.20.
SOLWHIT (FR) 3.05 Fairyhouse, 29th November 2008
Result: Won, 16 runners.
Laid €3,576.67 risking a liability of €8,607.81 if the horse had won.
Loss from this lay transaction totalled €8,607.81 as the horse won the race.
SOLWHIT (FR) 1.05 Thurles, 21st December 2008
Result: 2nd of 3 runners.
Laid €131.42 risking a liability of €45.74 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €131.42.
There is a major contrast in some of the volumes matched and fairly obvious, O'Gorman was placing plays on others behalf.
Now what would have been interesting is if Tom Doyle hadn't weighed in that day(which was said to be requested/ordered)
John O’Gorman
Laying of Horses Referral
The Referrals Committee Dr. Gordon A. Holmes (in the Chair), Mrs. J.O. Onions and Mr. John Powell met in the Turf Club, The Curragh, Co. Kildare on 28th January 2010 to consider the referral of Mr. John O’Gorman, stable employee of Mr. Charles Byrnes, trainer, by Denis Egan, Chief Executive of the Turf Club, in respect of a possible breach of Rule 273 (xiv) 4(b) which prohibits the holder of a racing establishment employee card to lay any horse under the care and control of the trainer for whom he is employed to lose a race with any person or betting organisation.
Evidence was heard from Mr. Hugh Hynes, Turf Club Integrity Analyst and from Mr. John O’Gorman, who admitted laying nine horses trained by Mr. Charles Byrnes to lose between the dates of 8th May 2008 and 21st December 2008. Details of the horses laid are set out in the attached schedule. The Committee also considered representations made by Mr. Byrnes on behalf of Mr. O’Gorman.
Having considered the evidence, the Committee noted that the laying of horses to lose by a racing establishment employee card holder when employed in a trainers yard seriously damages the integrity of racing and that the appropriate penalty for such an offence would be in the region of twelve months. However, in mitigation the Committee acknowledged that Mr. O’Gorman had admitted the offence at an early stage and cooperated fully with the investigation. Having regard for all these circumstances, the Committee imposed a four month disqualification on Mr. O’Gorman with effect from today’s date.
RACES BREACHING RULE 273 (xiv) 4. (b)
(Including betting values)
TWOFAN (USA) 6.25 Clonmel, 8th May 2008
Result: Pulled up, 16 runners.
Placed €1,043.01 on the horse to win. Laid €1,252.48 on the horse risking a net liability of €1,306.58 if the horse had won. Profit from these back and lay transactions totalled €209.47
ROCHESTER ROW (USA) 8.45 Roscommon, 7th July 2008
Result: Finished 13th of 18 runners.
Laid €28.36 risking a liability of €49.09 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €28.36
EHOWEE (IRE) 7.35 Down Royal, 3rd September 2008
Result: Finished 14th of 16 runners.
Laid €22, risking a liability of €181.30 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €22.
MASK OF DARKNESS (IRE) 3.25 Tralee, 30th September 2008
Result: Finished 11th of 20 runners.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €75 if the horse had won.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €25 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €10.
LISKENNETT (IRE) 1.55 Navan, 9th November 2008
Result: Finished 8th of 10 runners.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €22.15 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €5.
MERCHENT PADDY (IRE) 2.50 Gowran, 22nd November 2008
Result: Finished 8th of 14 runners.
Laid €52.17 risking a liability of €1,032.74 if the horse had won.
Laid €293.41 risking a liability of €1,629.80 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from these lay transactions totalled €345.58.
TWOFAN (USA) 3.25 Fairyhouse, 22nd November 2008
Result: Unseated Rider, 12 runners.
Laid €87.20 risking a liability of €1,599.64 if the horse had won.
Laid €124.00 risking a liability of €596.30 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from these lay transactions totalled €211.20.
SOLWHIT (FR) 3.05 Fairyhouse, 29th November 2008
Result: Won, 16 runners.
Laid €3,576.67 risking a liability of €8,607.81 if the horse had won.
Loss from this lay transaction totalled €8,607.81 as the horse won the race.
SOLWHIT (FR) 1.05 Thurles, 21st December 2008
Result: 2nd of 3 runners.
Laid €131.42 risking a liability of €45.74 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €131.42.
There is a major contrast in some of the volumes matched and fairly obvious, O'Gorman was placing plays on others behalf.
Now what would have been interesting is if Tom Doyle hadn't weighed in that day(which was said to be requested/ordered)
There is one aspect that really puzzles me about Charles Byrnes, (we all know that strokes are pulled regularly from a lot of trainers and Charles is undoubtedly up there with the shrewdest)Why does he makes things so complicated for himself by having them fit, for days that maybe they won't need to be-It takes control out of his hands,attracts attention and at times causes jockeys to take drastic/obvious action??Lots of easier ways-3 high profile cases
Cork Bumper 24th April 2005,infamous laetitia/Alpha Royle case
Fairyhouse 29th Nov,2008-Solwhit
Listowel 18th Sept. 2010-Pittoni
Cork Bumper 24th April 2005,infamous laetitia/Alpha Royle case
Fairyhouse 29th Nov,2008-Solwhit
Listowel 18th Sept. 2010-Pittoni
http://starbets.ie/horse-racing/ogorman-ban-completely-inadequate/
Good article by Gary O'Brien about the hapless O'Gorman.
Good article by Gary O'Brien about the hapless O'Gorman.
good find punchestown and fair play to Gary for speaking up at the time when so many wouldn't. Also writing the article didn't seem to do him any harm career wise
dj876 you risk a higher chance of injury bringing a horse to the races that isnt fit. Most non triers are fit just not tuned up. Any of the top 6 or 7 jockeys could stop a horse that is fully tuned up so subtly that you wouldnt notice. Whether that be by being in the wrong position in a race as it unfolds, not going for a certain gap when it appears, getting in close to a hurdle/fence. All the time riding as strong as possible.
Thanks dj876.
First question I would have asked Mr OGorman was why was he so confident as to risk what was obviously such a huge amount for him,what did he know and if he was laying it for someone.
A cursory glance at the figures would show you he was laying this early in the betting as he averaged a little over 9/4 about a 4/1 shot,another important point would be the times of the lays if as would appear to me he stopped early when all his funds were tied up,another fact you can guarantee is he was not the only layer.
That hearing was obviously a whitewash and how come there is no mention of the infamous phone and no mention of the obvious distress in the winning enclosure.
First question I would have asked Mr OGorman was why was he so confident as to risk what was obviously such a huge amount for him,what did he know and if he was laying it for someone.
A cursory glance at the figures would show you he was laying this early in the betting as he averaged a little over 9/4 about a 4/1 shot,another important point would be the times of the lays if as would appear to me he stopped early when all his funds were tied up,another fact you can guarantee is he was not the only layer.
That hearing was obviously a whitewash and how come there is no mention of the infamous phone and no mention of the obvious distress in the winning enclosure.
Or there is another scenario dj, to fleece in running players?, a horse seemingly travelling well will often attract plenty of money.
I remember that Gary O'Brien article and if my memory serves Alan Sweetman also probed a few questions at the time?, but most remained willfully silent on the matter while the authorities had their scapegoat, the employee was obviously going to keep his mouth shut or else?.
I remember that Gary O'Brien article and if my memory serves Alan Sweetman also probed a few questions at the time?, but most remained willfully silent on the matter while the authorities had their scapegoat, the employee was obviously going to keep his mouth shut or else?.
It was a foggy day so doubt there was much in running betting however if they had left in a few decent keep bets the robots would have had a field day,makes the panic and distress in the winners enclosure all the more understandable.
How much would they have got in running out of Lanturn that day in Listowel as I saw the best judge in racing betting both 4/5 and 4/6 the horse and he was fully aware of the Rusty Tears lay and the stench off Lanturn.
How much would they have got in running out of Lanturn that day in Listowel as I saw the best judge in racing betting both 4/5 and 4/6 the horse and he was fully aware of the Rusty Tears lay and the stench off Lanturn.
mr doyle was told to finish in midfield on solwhit. doyles pals were on decided to disobey orders got sacked no trainer could trust him anymore. hang up the boots and move end off
It shows what a complete gaff trainer Byrnes is that they would try to "handicap" a Champion Hurdle contender
Yes the same way henderson is a gaff trainer in that he got the favourite for the supreme novices handicapped. Diamond Joe,it was a handicap hurdle he won,he already had a handicap mark which i assume was going to be exploited further down the line. He was going to be able to win one more handicap,and never run in one again .That is exactly the my tent or yours scenario,the schweppes was his last ever handicap.
TBH have heard from good sources that Byrnes is not a good punter. Plenty more losses than wins. Delighted the way it worked out for them that day in fairyhouse. Although if it were my horse and a jockey didnt carry out his instructions he would be getting more than a few phone calls...
The race in question was debated long and hard on here at the time as I remember , vague recollections of it myself , as I saw it the horse just picked up the bit and ran home . Any jockey can bury a horse back in the field and run in behind others and get "stopped" by traffic etc at the business end of a race . Sundays big race at Leopardstown would be a good example , the Walsh horse cound have finished 14th ( or so ) if it hadn't got a phenomenal run in the clear up the outside despite being nearly last turning in . And nobody could have pointed any fingers .
Occasionally though a horse just takes off , and stopping it doing its thing might just get noticed unfavourably .
Occasionally though a horse just takes off , and stopping it doing its thing might just get noticed unfavourably .
The biggest question here surely has to be why the hell does Byrnes get Giggy Horse's with such a rancid background??
I agree with you cheltenham roar, you would think they would concentrate their efforts on Gordon Elliott and Tony Martin.
As if Martin and his progeny walk around everyday with a halo circling around their forehead?.
TRAINERS Tony Martin and Jim Best found themselves in trouble with the Newmarket stewards on Saturday after being found guilty of a breach of instruction C7 – which governs restrictions on substances administered to racecourses.
Martin was fined £1,500 and Best £1,000 after two members of stable security stafffound employees of the trainers in attendance with Leg Spinner and Gee Dee Nen in possession of prohibited substances.
Stipendiary steward William Nunneley said: "Both trainers said theyknew the rules but prohibited substances had accidentally beentaken into the stabling area by their staff.
"In Martin's case it was quite a serious substance, one with a local anaesthetic affect, but there was no suggestion they were going to be used."
Martin was also found with the means to administer.
TRAINERS Tony Martin and Jim Best found themselves in trouble with the Newmarket stewards on Saturday after being found guilty of a breach of instruction C7 – which governs restrictions on substances administered to racecourses.
Martin was fined £1,500 and Best £1,000 after two members of stable security stafffound employees of the trainers in attendance with Leg Spinner and Gee Dee Nen in possession of prohibited substances.
Stipendiary steward William Nunneley said: "Both trainers said theyknew the rules but prohibited substances had accidentally beentaken into the stabling area by their staff.
"In Martin's case it was quite a serious substance, one with a local anaesthetic affect, but there was no suggestion they were going to be used."
Martin was also found with the means to administer.
Very funny jim,Mouse,Henry De Bromhead and Mullins should be his sole Trainers imo.No need for anybody else.
Maybe so tolmi? but no harm in highlighting this incident anyway.
Tom Doyle's greatest achievement as a jockey might be getting 58 responses on the betfair forum in a thread dedicated to him, his girlfriend wildmanfromborneo might have lead the charge but all the same an impressive haul for a middle of the road jock
Was thinking that was the connection that wildmanfromborneo was trying to make,he had me convinced that Tony was Roddy's son.
Tony Martins father was a farmer but he owned a betting shop for a while.
I hope that RicksonG was laying Solwhit that day as we know he would not be a risk taker just a layer of dead ones,he was a layer of Cops And Robbers when that horse drifted alarmingly again at Fairyhouse and then came on trying to maintain he did because he is a form expert.
One thing about the layers of dead ones is they can't take losing,its as if things can never go wrong and they would rather no risk element,the bitterness directed at Tom Doyle is pure wrong especially as he did the right thing.
I hope that RicksonG was laying Solwhit that day as we know he would not be a risk taker just a layer of dead ones,he was a layer of Cops And Robbers when that horse drifted alarmingly again at Fairyhouse and then came on trying to maintain he did because he is a form expert.
One thing about the layers of dead ones is they can't take losing,its as if things can never go wrong and they would rather no risk element,the bitterness directed at Tom Doyle is pure wrong especially as he did the right thing.
You seem sure so I accept that.
What have Tom Doyle Lucinda Creighton and Martin Pipe got in common.
What have Tom Doyle Lucinda Creighton and Martin Pipe got in common.
Bought it hook, line and sinker, well done wildmanfromborneo
Why don't you give me more gossip about advanced betting theory hahaha
Why don't you give me more gossip about advanced betting theory hahaha
Considering that ricksonG only has 79 replies since june 06 suggests he's most likely connected to a racing yard.
I don't want to take away from a top jockey like Tom Doyle's finest hour in fairness silvergreaser, lest keep on topic
If every jockey took the same approach as Tom Doyle did that day in Fairyhouse the sport would be in a much better place. To condemn a man for winning a race is somewhat idiotic. I wouldn't expect anything else from Jimeen.
The reasons RicksonG gave for laying Cops And Robbers were risible,he ended up tying himself in knots,he knew about Cops And Robbers multiple wind operations as did the trainer but this information only surfaced when Meade wrote about it in the Racing Post.
I said at the time those layers were playing with a marked deck and seems to me that is the only type of deck they would ever play with.
I said at the time those layers were playing with a marked deck and seems to me that is the only type of deck they would ever play with.
It was the Irish field Noel Meade gave his stable tour in, read your own thread please..
As silvergreaser points out I have comfortably under 100 posts on betfair in almost 7 years, everybody is free to read my points using the search function quite easily, this might be a struggle for wildmanfromborneo as I have previously posted a link to download timestamped betting data on his favourite race of the last 12 months (which he didn't bet in) and he was off the bridle straight away..
Fair play you got one thing right,it was The Field but it took a few months for the reason for all the layers to come out.
The Meade stable is run for gamblers and that's why One Last Chance and RicksonG were so enraged by my thread,its also why I am glad the stable is in terminal decline.
The Meade stable is run for gamblers and that's why One Last Chance and RicksonG were so enraged by my thread,its also why I am glad the stable is in terminal decline.
You must have been top of your university phsycology class wildman, you are telling me how I feel now through the medium of the internet :) you have more of a tarot card reader vibe off you to be honest
Can someone say something positive about Tom Doyle (you can lie and say he was great if needs be) and get the thread back on the right side of the tracks please
You've been off the bridle for a few years now wildman, lets face it
That last point was made before and its bogus,I was going to back Cops And Robbers but when I saw the spectacular drift I stalled,I know the stable is infested with layers so I watched the market,the more I watched the more I knew it was a race to leave alone.
The race stank then and stinks even more now bearing in mind the a irish Field revelations.
The race stank then and stinks even more now bearing in mind the a irish Field revelations.
Why didn't you lay him if you didn't want to back him? the talent is in the choices..
You'll talk for Ireland at a rate of circa 350+ posts a month over 2 years about races you didnt have the balls to bet in so, opinion on everything commitment to nothing, is fair summation
this shouldn't be about me.. there is a top jockey out there who retired at 33 on the edge of his seat reading this
I like him, but I want to explore the mechanics of why Wildmanfromborneo thinks he is ''top class''
like might be a bit strong, really I couldn't care less about him or any other jockey, but I try to stay inpartial when looking at things I might have an interest in betting in , in order to deduce whether A is A and if I am inputting any of my own neurosis into a betting decision
I would never do a U turn like that better just have no bet,too painful
Doubt if you hold many opinions on racing,you just wait for the message you can stand this it won't win,eliminates any work or any race reading also eliminates the gambling element.
Doubt if you hold many opinions on racing,you just wait for the message you can stand this it won't win,eliminates any work or any race reading also eliminates the gambling element.
You must find it difficult to get any serious growth in your betting bankroll with such an entrenched one dimensional attitude don't you find Wildman?
I am a punter rather than a layer but few gamblers I know would fancy a horse and upon reviewing a market turn into a layer,the no bet option is best in that situation.
I would say you are pretty one dimensional,only play when you are told and incapable of making a decision alone.
I would say you are pretty one dimensional,only play when you are told and incapable of making a decision alone.
Said before wildman you don't know me so please refrain from dragging me into any of your wild theories your problem is you didn't know he had a wind op what do you want people come on here and tell you over and out and will not be responding to again Ps good luck to Tom Doyle inn whatever he goes on to do in the future
Yes the same way henderson is a gaff trainer in that he got the favourite for the supreme novices handicapped
How did Henderson get MTOY handicapped? By winning all but one of his races prior to the Betfair hurdle?
Massive difference between pulling a horse and plotting one imho
How did Henderson get MTOY handicapped? By winning all but one of his races prior to the Betfair hurdle?
Massive difference between pulling a horse and plotting one imho
That information was deliberately withheld for laying purposes,it wasn't even mentioned after the race,it took months for it to come out.
I am dragging you nowhere you arrived on my thread with the great line " a load of boll. ocks " but subsequent events have shown your eloquent statement wasn't true.
I am dragging you nowhere you arrived on my thread with the great line " a load of boll. ocks " but subsequent events have shown your eloquent statement wasn't true.
You seem to allow no deviation for innacuracy in your initial methodology for ''fancieng'' the animal wildman, have you never heard of the monty hall problem?
Wildmanfromborneo.......You were correct about Harveys father. Jimmy was a farmer and had a bookies shop.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
I am well used to being wrong but this was following a pattern specific to that stable,I get the fact you and the other eloquent gentleman are enraged that someone is on here pointing it out but it is not unreasonable for me to point to trends.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Finally a small bit of unsolicited advice the combining of forces with the Mullins team for some punts is leading to spectacular market moves and drawing unwanted attention look at the way Paddy Sleator did it.
Jimeen eloquently tells the story of him backing this chaser,he had double checked everything and started to invest but was alarmed by the speed of which the bets were matched,backed it around 9/4 it drifted to 4/1 and naturally lost,he blamed the jockey.
Normally you would have sympathy for the punters in that case but not here because they are habitual layers of dead ones,they are in fairness successful but the feeling he got when he likened it to a piranha bowl is the feeling he is normally dishing out as he is snapping up the bets of the lads in the dark,its the same with RicksonG.They only play when they are 1.01 and the one time the miracle happened and it went against him they screamed the place down and it still rankles to this day.
Jimeen claiming he doesn't really remember the day is comical as with every follow up post he reveals more facts about it and his bitterness towards Tom Doyle is a monetary one.
Normally you would have sympathy for the punters in that case but not here because they are habitual layers of dead ones,they are in fairness successful but the feeling he got when he likened it to a piranha bowl is the feeling he is normally dishing out as he is snapping up the bets of the lads in the dark,its the same with RicksonG.They only play when they are 1.01 and the one time the miracle happened and it went against him they screamed the place down and it still rankles to this day.
Jimeen claiming he doesn't really remember the day is comical as with every follow up post he reveals more facts about it and his bitterness towards Tom Doyle is a monetary one.
Two things i am going to say wildmanfromborneo,and i am going to call it a day at that. Yes any bitterness i have towards Tom Doyle is a monetary one,but it has absolutely zero to do with any race in Fairyhouse. Lastly i do a fair share of gambling and if i was a quarter as good as you seem to think,then id be a multi millionaire. To say i only play when i am 1.01 is comical,and as for these so called dead ones you are on about,there is no such thing,they are a figment of a fairly wild imagination that you seem to have.
god help you jimeen cos the wildbore aka dark rosaleen will wake up tomorrow and type your name straight away on here instead of mine
spare a thought for tom doyle there.
never seemed to do anything wrong on lord windermere. rode him in his first 10 races.
never seemed to do anything wrong on lord windermere. rode him in his first 10 races.
Done an excellent job on Lord Windermere,Well done Tom Doyle.
Ye he can have a nice shandy on the rocks to celebrate..
you would feel sorry for him.a good jockey fcuked up by circumstances
What an apt win 
My comments were ignorant (No change there then ), Cracking training performance to get an injured horse back to that level. WD Charlie 
My comments were ignorant (No change there then
), Cracking training performance to get an injured horse back to that level. WD Charlie
Great Irish win by Solwhit . Cant be jumping out of my skin about it though . Some of us have good memories .
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