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wildmanfromborneo
05 Mar 13 10:06
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Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 21,252 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
Sad to see this top class jockey retire,there seems to have been a fall out between him and Culloty.

However this jockeys career was damaged by his ride of Solwhit in a Fairyhouse handicap,he should have received praise for his efforts instead all he got was grief,he was subject to a barrage of phone calls the content of these bothered him so much he handed in his phone to the stewards,they did nothing.

He was treated badly then and it had some ramifications for him,I wish him all the best.

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Replies: 125
By:
Ozymandius
When: 05 Mar 13 10:17
Borneo, where on earth have you been?
By:
JayTrumpOldTomDubbl
When: 05 Mar 13 10:23
Well thats amazing wildman if the barstewards did nothing. Incredible really.

I wonder would the barstewards have done anything if he didn't weigh in that day.

That was very menacing.
           
                    A very fine rider.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 05 Mar 13 10:38
Well said wildman and where were the other jockeys and trainers rallying to his defence or the media for that matter?, this was a story dripping with juicy bits, but all were conspicuous by their stony silence.
By:
Kelly
When: 05 Mar 13 10:51
Part of the hidden agenda with Stewards is to generate income via fines .  Can anyone see that possibilty in case quoted ?
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 Mar 13 10:55
He received 84 calls of a certain nature,the stewards were given the phone yet nothing happened.
By:
newapproach
When: 05 Mar 13 11:12
Well said Wildman, a very good jockey indeed. Lord windermere was one of his last rides for Culloty so maybe it was the owner who requested the change in jockey as Robbie Mac rode a few of them and they would have a close association through riding for him on Weld's horses.
It's a pity there's good jockeys like this being lost to the game with such average one's about, Paddy Flood another one who had to go to Australia due to lack of oppertunities. Andy Mac another class jockey who seems to find it hard to get good rides at the moment.
By:
GANT007
When: 05 Mar 13 11:16
Some jockeys are unreliable but maybe talented......you have to have both. Paddy Flood a fine example of that.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 Mar 13 11:17
Paddy Flood a brilliant jockey in his day but another treated disgracefully by the stewards,the poor fellow had some understandable issues.
On one of his last rides here the stewards done him for not riding his horse out for a place it was a dubious call at the best of times but bearing in mind the circumstances it was an act of cruelty.
By:
punchestown
When: 05 Mar 13 11:18
That Fairyhouse day was something else,Doyle was person non grata in the winners enclosure and never rode for Byrnes again iirc.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 Mar 13 11:18
Very harsh GANT.
By:
GANT007
When: 05 Mar 13 11:29
Harsh but true.
By:
jimeen
When: 05 Mar 13 12:55
Wildmanfromborneo,if you for one moment think that Tom Doyle is retiring because opportunities have dried up,then you are more deluded than i thought. His career was damaged by the fairyhouse incident alright,but not the way you are imagining. The man is 33,has at least another 6 or 7 years.and he decides to retire. I find that a little hard to swallow,and theres the small matter of his agent retiring with him. Wait and see who were on his books before making yet another wild and dangerous assertion. The bit about the 84 missed calls,you know that to be fact,or yet more hearsay.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 Mar 13 13:05
Read the first line of my opening post again.

How many calls do you think were made and I accept your figure is more likely to be accurate.
By:
Santry
When: 05 Mar 13 18:16
The good rides in Ireland are almost confined to the Walsh/Geraghty/Russell trio. Young jocks find it difficult to make progress in a small tight knit world controlled by a very few people. Tom Doyle a decent jockey but good horses hard to come by.I would like to know why he didnt ride Lord Windermere-his best mount-at Leopardstown last month. Why Bryan Cooper doesnt get more high profile horses is beyond me. He is a brilliant,fearless jockey.
By:
jimeen
When: 05 Mar 13 18:26
Wildmanfromborneo,I have no idea how many calls were made but your figure seems a bit excessive . The question I'd like answered is ,like many cases in England in the last few years, did he retire or was he retired?
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 Mar 13 18:41
Jimeen that last post of yours is unworthy of you as you seem to be holding a grudge.
Losing the Culloty job was a blow for Tom Doyle and was more than likely a contributing factor but the fact remains the jockey was bombarded with phone calls that fateful day in Fairyhouse and plenty begged the dialler to stop but he persisted so much so that Doyle reported it to the stewards and gave them his phone,that the stewards failed to act is to their eternal shame.

Every lay cannot be successful.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 05 Mar 13 18:51
You know what is really shameful wildman the medias deathly silence on this matter, this was volcano type "hot" and yet as usual they bottled it, terrified that a place on the gravy train would be jeopardised?.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 05 Mar 13 19:01
In fairness they are afraid of being sued.
Our crazy legal system is run for the benefit of the legal profession,right or wrong is irrelevant.
By:
jimeen
When: 05 Mar 13 19:13
Wildmanfromborneo,not everything is always as it seems . If you think Tom Doyle retired,then fair enough. I myself am of a different opinion.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 05 Mar 13 19:13
Sued wildman?, any journalist worth his salt can publish a story without ever leaving themselves open to libel.

If ever you had any doubt as to the integrity of the people who purport to regulate Irish racing this shows them up for what they really are, gutless and incestuous!.
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 05 Mar 13 19:41
byrnes is 5cum imho. always was, always will be.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 05 Mar 13 20:06
Goes to show diamond how easy these guys get it off of these so called regulators, a jockey can be manhandled in plain view for actually winning a race?.

And this wasn't a story in the gutless media's eyes, here was an opportunity to not only show up Byrnes for what he is but also the apathy that exists within the gutless regulators.
By:
dj876
When: 05 Mar 13 20:23
Jimeen ,what are you suggesting as the reason why Tom Doyle retired??Just that his agent(Niall Cronin who was booking Paddy Flood's rides before he had to emigrate)is clueless or something else??
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 05 Mar 13 20:27
is that the same guy who wrote for the evening herald?
By:
dj876
When: 05 Mar 13 20:31
Same guy,he rides in some of those charity races as well.
By:
jimeen
When: 06 Mar 13 20:09
DJ876, Niall Cronin has announced his retirement as he only had 4 riders on his books and with Tom Doyles retirement,it wasnt worth his while continuing. He forgot to mention that one of his other clients is heading for another "retirement" shortly.
Alot seems to have been written about that fairyhouse incident,i dont know what happened exactly but if as people claim Doyle deliberately ignored orders then he cant really get much sympathy from other trainers,because if he has a mind of his own,then other people wont want to touch him,and rightly so.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 06 Mar 13 20:23
That's a novel way of putting it,if orders are illegal he has to break them.
The extraordinary part of the story was the over the top reaction of the normally mild mannered trainer,he has got to learn to take the good with the bad.
Remember J V Smith.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 06 Mar 13 20:46
Jimeen says "Alot seems to have been written about that fairyhouse incident"

in fact quite the opposite very little at all has been written about it, when you consider the race in question was linked to the Byrne's stable employee and the laying of the stable runners on here.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 06 Mar 13 21:05
Wonder is  Adropaupep fancied tomorrow?
By:
jimeen
When: 06 Mar 13 21:10
JV Smith was before my time,but i have heard the story. Most jockeys ride to orders every single day,bar the elite band at the top of the tree,the rest have no choice. If my memory serves me correctly the fog was awful that day,so there was no excuses. It was a blatant double cross,it couldnt have been anything else.
I will tell you a little story about something that happened me in a novice chase in 2012. Fancied a horse quite strongly one evening and went to the trouble of finding out was everything ok with the said animal. A good friend of mine who lived locally to the outfit assured me that the horse was in good shape and the trainer who isnt a huge punter had a monkey on,which would be his max bet. This horse was a front runner and an exuberant jumper who with a bit of luck would stretch the opposition from the start,and on top of that his inexperienced and i mean useless regular rider was being replaced by a good professional,who was widely recognised as being a very good front running chase jockey. When the betting opened it hovered around the 2/1 mark,maybe a fraction under,so i rang an associate who was of similar thinking,and asked him to start feeding money into the normally light betdack market. Normally it isnt easy to get on,but this time it was no problem. He likened it to putting your hand into a pirhana bowl,the money was being gobbled that quickly. Between the 2 of us,not far off five figures was invested at around 3.25. Now it was worrying to see the slide continue and at the off it was nigh on 4/1 to back for lumps. From experience you just knew you were in real bother,and i started to watch the race with alot less hope than normal. It set off in front as expected but not with the normal zest that i had anticipated,and sure enough at half way it relinquished the lead and slowly but surely dropped back to a never threatening fourth,without any resistance from the rider. That was the position i think it maintained when it went by the line. Now wildman when somebody is prepared to go 4/1 a 2 chance,alarm bells ring . It wasnt the owner or trainer that was behind it,so there isnt too many left it could be.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 06 Mar 13 21:38
Is it not more likely that the jockey feared for his licence.
It is fairly obvious that the trainer felt he was double crossed but I don't agree,I accept it was foggy but a jockey riding in a race could never be sure that his actions would not be on camera.

I think all of us at some stage have got that sinking feeling when are bets are matched far too quickly especially in what appears a weak market but I wouldn't be as sure as you that it is the jockey,people have this idea here that there are loads of jockeys with agents laying their mounts,not true in my opinion.

There is a heck of a difference between a jockey telling someone he doesn't think he will win and him stopping it.
By:
jimeen
When: 06 Mar 13 23:05
Wildmanfromborneo, nobody risks this kind of money on the opinion of a jockey . Nobody will go double the odds a racehorse unless they are certain as they can possibly be that it will not be around . As for the cameras in fairyhouse that day,the meeting shouldn't have been on . You could not see the last hurdle on that day,he could have done what he liked ,and he did.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 06 Mar 13 23:12
Your last line is an acknowledgement that he was asked to stop it.

A question for you what have Tom Doyle Lucinda Creighton and Tony Martin got in common.
By:
jimeen
When: 06 Mar 13 23:20
My last line isn't an acknowledgement of anything,I know nothing about this incident. I don't know what those 3 people have in common ,I actually don't know who lucinda creighton is.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 06 Mar 13 23:25
She is a junior minister in the government with responsibility for Europe and a member of Fine Gael.

The answer could be said to prove your earlier points.
By:
jimeen
When: 06 Mar 13 23:31
Excuse my ignorance,that just shows how much I am in touch with the real world. Current affairs is not really my thing anymore. As for the connection,again I am totally lost.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 06 Mar 13 23:42
The connection is their fathers.
By:
guru m
When: 07 Mar 13 00:50
all 3 are bookies?
By:
dj876
When: 07 Mar 13 00:58
John O'Gorman - Referral PDF Print E-mail
John O’Gorman
Laying of Horses Referral

The Referrals Committee Dr. Gordon A. Holmes (in the Chair), Mrs. J.O. Onions and Mr. John Powell met in the Turf Club, The Curragh, Co. Kildare on 28th January 2010 to consider the referral of Mr. John O’Gorman, stable employee of Mr. Charles Byrnes, trainer, by Denis Egan, Chief Executive of the Turf Club, in respect of a possible breach of Rule 273 (xiv) 4(b) which prohibits the holder of a racing establishment employee card to lay any horse under the care and control of the trainer for whom he is employed to lose a race with any person or betting organisation.

Evidence was heard from Mr. Hugh Hynes, Turf Club Integrity Analyst and from Mr. John O’Gorman, who admitted laying nine horses trained by Mr. Charles Byrnes to lose between the dates of 8th May 2008 and 21st December 2008. Details of the horses laid are set out in the attached schedule. The Committee also considered representations made by Mr. Byrnes on behalf of Mr. O’Gorman.

Having considered the evidence, the Committee noted that the laying of horses to lose by a racing establishment employee card holder when employed in a trainers yard seriously damages the integrity of racing and that the appropriate penalty for such an offence would be in the region of twelve months. However, in mitigation the Committee acknowledged that Mr. O’Gorman had admitted the offence at an early stage and cooperated fully with the investigation. Having regard for all these circumstances, the Committee imposed a four month disqualification on Mr. O’Gorman with effect from today’s date.

RACES BREACHING RULE 273 (xiv) 4. (b)
(Including betting values)

TWOFAN (USA) 6.25 Clonmel, 8th May 2008
Result: Pulled up, 16 runners.
Placed €1,043.01 on the horse to win. Laid €1,252.48 on the horse risking a net liability of €1,306.58 if the horse had won. Profit from these back and lay transactions totalled €209.47

ROCHESTER ROW (USA) 8.45 Roscommon, 7th July 2008
Result: Finished 13th of 18 runners.
Laid €28.36 risking a liability of €49.09 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €28.36

EHOWEE (IRE) 7.35 Down Royal, 3rd September 2008
Result: Finished 14th of 16 runners.
Laid €22, risking a liability of €181.30 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €22.

MASK OF DARKNESS (IRE) 3.25 Tralee, 30th September 2008
Result: Finished 11th of 20 runners.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €75 if the horse had won.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €25 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €10.

LISKENNETT (IRE) 1.55 Navan, 9th November 2008
Result: Finished 8th of 10 runners.
Laid €5, risking a liability of €22.15 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €5.

MERCHENT PADDY (IRE) 2.50 Gowran, 22nd November 2008
Result: Finished 8th of 14 runners.
Laid €52.17 risking a liability of €1,032.74 if the horse had won.
Laid €293.41 risking a liability of €1,629.80 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from these lay transactions totalled €345.58.

TWOFAN (USA) 3.25 Fairyhouse, 22nd November 2008
Result: Unseated Rider, 12 runners.
Laid €87.20 risking a liability of €1,599.64 if the horse had won.
Laid €124.00 risking a liability of €596.30 if the horse had been placed.
Profit from these lay transactions totalled €211.20.

SOLWHIT (FR) 3.05 Fairyhouse, 29th November 2008
Result: Won, 16 runners.
Laid €3,576.67 risking a liability of €8,607.81 if the horse had won.
Loss from this lay transaction totalled €8,607.81 as the horse won the race.

SOLWHIT (FR) 1.05 Thurles, 21st December 2008
Result: 2nd of 3 runners.
Laid €131.42 risking a liability of €45.74 if the horse had won.
Profit from this lay transaction totalled €131.42.

There is a major contrast in some of the volumes matched and fairly obvious, O'Gorman was placing plays on others behalf.
Now what would have been interesting is if Tom Doyle hadn't weighed in that day(which was said to be requested/ordered)
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