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A massive tribute is due to Ml. Noonan for piloting the restructuring project through to a successful conclusion.
He has shown remarkable reserves of physical and mental stamina in shuttling back and forth to Europe where he had to deal with some of the most intractable ideologues in Germany and other places. He has at all times exhibited a sure grasp of the fiscal intricacies involved and remained unriffled in the face of all the inevitable frustrations and delays.
In addition he constantly exuded an air of calm reassurance -even when the media , with too much time to fill , were cultivating hysteria and false dramas out of nothing but wild speculation.
there have been many who laboured to bring this day about but Ml. Noonan was the redoubtable leader and the skilful steersman who has brought the ship to harbour despite the pathetic scoffing of the naysayers safely ensconced on the sideline.
He has shown remarkable reserves of physical and mental stamina in shuttling back and forth to Europe where he had to deal with some of the most intractable ideologues in Germany and other places. He has at all times exhibited a sure grasp of the fiscal intricacies involved and remained unriffled in the face of all the inevitable frustrations and delays.
In addition he constantly exuded an air of calm reassurance -even when the media , with too much time to fill , were cultivating hysteria and false dramas out of nothing but wild speculation.
there have been many who laboured to bring this day about but Ml. Noonan was the redoubtable leader and the skilful steersman who has brought the ship to harbour despite the pathetic scoffing of the naysayers safely ensconced on the sideline.
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The presence of so much gushing, fawning, mawkish & sentimental hyperbole is a sure sign that the writer is trying too hard.
Put your rod away please.
Put your rod away please.
I think Vubiant is serious,there are flaws in this deal but Noonan is a wiley old fox and if he manages to pawn someone off with Nama bonds he is a genius.
pretend it was a leak from an unknown source, rush it through the dail before anyone has a chance to study it.
We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.
We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.
Noonan Vs An Investment firm
Anyone care to price the match bet on who comes out the better?
Anyone care to price the match bet on who comes out the better?
We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.
Thought Rabbite looked shifty when Pat Kenny stated in the US the FBI would be called in.
Thought Rabbite looked shifty when Pat Kenny stated in the US the FBI would be called in.
Good man vubiant, another load of horsemeat, from your good self.Hope all's well in Abbeyfeale. We can all go shopping now for that cheese that Noonan 'wise cracked' Greece about
Every time I hear his name I think of the McCole family in Donegal, and I feel a sadness, that this State treated them so poorly, esp. this man that you feel is your hero now.
Such a pity he didn't show a grasp of 'humanity' to this family in Donegal.
As regards this latest deal in fact I think your very wide of the mark, as it is the Central Bank boss Mr. Honohan who has got us this deal, regardless of what the record may show.
Every time I hear his name I think of the McCole family in Donegal, and I feel a sadness, that this State treated them so poorly, esp. this man that you feel is your hero now.
Such a pity he didn't show a grasp of 'humanity' to this family in Donegal.
As regards this latest deal in fact I think your very wide of the mark, as it is the Central Bank boss Mr. Honohan who has got us this deal, regardless of what the record may show.
Honohon will be remembered in the future annals of Irish history as being responsible for the single most reprehensibly financial act of mismanagement that this State ever inflicted upon it's unfortunate citizens.
His loyalty is to his cabal of fellow financial [mis] alchemists of the ECB Board, and not to his fellow countrymen.
He's a modern-day "Broy Harrier" with an econometrics degree.
His loyalty is to his cabal of fellow financial [mis] alchemists of the ECB Board, and not to his fellow countrymen.
He's a modern-day "Broy Harrier" with an econometrics degree.
I am no friend of the Broy Harriers but don't get the reference,however I agree with the rest of the post.
IIRC, Broy Harriers happily turned against former comrades.
A slightly obscure reference at this hour of night, admittedly.
A slightly obscure reference at this hour of night, admittedly.
On second thoughts its actually a good analogy although was Honohon ever a comrade think he was always on the bankers side.
The power - á la The Rothschilds - to create new money out of thin air is clearly a powerful toxin.
I'm reminded of the famous quote [I think attributable to Lincoln, but open to correction] of mastery of the money supply being akin to control of all men.
I'm reminded of the famous quote [I think attributable to Lincoln, but open to correction] of mastery of the money supply being akin to control of all men.
How this forum isnt running the country i'll never know
We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.
That one is a 1.00000000001
That one is a 1.00000000001
I actually think the ECB deliberately leaked it instead, to force the government's "wind-up" hand as the Troika believed that the Promissory Notes' deal was unconstitutional.
Either that, or the explosive Quinn/IBRC court case coming in 2013 results in the disputed 2.3bl CFD deals being declared null and void [under Section 60 of the Companies' Act I am led to believe].
Either that, or the explosive Quinn/IBRC court case coming in 2013 results in the disputed 2.3bl CFD deals being declared null and void [under Section 60 of the Companies' Act I am led to believe].
ecb/goverment same thing, it was all planned imo.... by both parties.
Its a f*ckin great deal imo (given the position we were/are in) - shouldn't look at it in the context of a once-off, but as part of an overall strategy - we have 25-40 years to deal with this now
- and make further gains (notwithstanding the effects inflation will ravage on it). This "debt" will continually be eroded over the next 4 decades.
I don't think we'll ever pay the capital if you ask me, or it will be rolled-over continually until it becomes inconsequential. Headlines of "legacy of debt" are so off the mark is laughable - whatever happens lets not have a good news story.
Most importantly we now have some breathing room.
At least FF - perhaps feeling somewhat chastised that their greatest rivals for power, seem to have gotten us out of the massive hole they put us into - have praised the government, what else could they do I suppose.
SF
- just talking complete and utter sh1te as usual can barely conceal their disappointment that the country has caught a break of some sort.
So, credit where credit is due......(I've no political allegiance whatsoever - classic floating voter, make my mind-up each and every election based on my own thinking).......not bad for openers.
Anyone who thinks that's it settled is wrong, this is only the start
- personally I think the govt played a good hand. I also believe what they were projecting and saying publicly (good boys of Europe, responsible, conciliatory)and what they are saying privately in Europe were two different things, and rightly so, as if you're going to display your approach on Prime Time, Newstalk etc etc
- and make further gains (notwithstanding the effects inflation will ravage on it). This "debt" will continually be eroded over the next 4 decades.I don't think we'll ever pay the capital if you ask me, or it will be rolled-over continually until it becomes inconsequential. Headlines of "legacy of debt" are so off the mark is laughable - whatever happens lets not have a good news story.
Most importantly we now have some breathing room.
At least FF - perhaps feeling somewhat chastised that their greatest rivals for power, seem to have gotten us out of the massive hole they put us into - have praised the government, what else could they do I suppose.
SF
- just talking complete and utter sh1te as usual can barely conceal their disappointment that the country has caught a break of some sort.So, credit where credit is due......(I've no political allegiance whatsoever - classic floating voter, make my mind-up each and every election based on my own thinking).......not bad for openers.
Anyone who thinks that's it settled is wrong, this is only the start
- personally I think the govt played a good hand. I also believe what they were projecting and saying publicly (good boys of Europe, responsible, conciliatory)and what they are saying privately in Europe were two different things, and rightly so, as if you're going to display your approach on Prime Time, Newstalk etc etc
By refusing to bail out the banks and helping homeowners, Iceland has paved an alternative path to growth after its financial meltdown.
Creating growth after the crisis
Back in 2008 the Icelandic banks defaulted on $85 billion, leaving the island's population buried under a burden of debt, and furious with their politicians and bankers for the country's economic collapse.
Now however, Iceland's economy looks set to outgrow both the euro area and the developed world on average, according to estimates by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
The OECD reckons Iceland's economy, which grew 2.9% last year, is set to go up 2.4% this year, compared to growth of just 0.2% in the euro area and 1.6% across the OECD area, as reported by Bloomberg.
Unorthodox approach to defaulting on debt
Yet Iceland has spurred this economic miracle without bailing out the bankers with untold billions.
Instead, Iceland did "everything the International Monetary Fund (IMF) or the global economic establishment thinks you should never do", according to Allister Heath, editor of business daily City A.M., when "it allowed banks to go bust, it defaulted on its debt, it reneged on international deals and so on, putting taxpayers first".
US commentator Cenk Uygur also highlighted the divergent Icelandic approach on this episode of The Young Turks.
Uygur described the Icelandic success story as based on nationalising the banks, indicting the bankers who caused the mess and bailing out 25% of the population by forgiving debt that exceeded 110% of property values.
"The lesson to be learned from Iceland's crisis is that if other countries think it's necessary to write down debts, they should look at how successful the 110% agreement was here," said Thorolfur Matthiasson, an economics professor at the University of Iceland in Reykjavik.
David Dayden also praised debt deleveraging for successfully bringing back the Icelandic economy, when writing on FDL.
Dayden contrasted the US reaction to its housing crisis, where the US refused to write-down debt as rewarding bad actors and causing moral hazard, and instead poured money into "back-door" bank bailouts.
He said: "Guess what? Debt write-downs do work. They generate a wealth effect among the population, and they help to end balance-sheet recessions and bring about economic growth.
"The facts reveal that austerity is counter-productive, while debt forgiveness is extremely productive."
Doubts about Iceland's example
Some commentators cast doubt on the success or otherwise of Iceland's approach.
Responding to the Bloomberg coverage, Ólafur Garðarsson described the 110% way as "an utter failure".
He said: "A quarter of all households in Iceland are in financial crisis mode, unable to make mortgage payments and in many cases not even able to buy groceries, let alone medicines and other necessities. Another quarter of households are on the brink of financial ruin."
Samúel Erlendur Lárusson also posted his concerns that even though currency-indexed loans were ruled illegal, they are "still being collected as the government refuses to take any action against the banks".
Mr Lárusson forecast that "few, if any of the indicted bankers will face anything more than minor fines".
Here on Mindful Money, Simon Ward, chief economist at Henderson, warned in his blog that Iceland's economic growth since devaluing the krona has not been significantly higher than in Balkan states that pursued austerity measures to defend euro exchange rates pegs.
At City A.M., Heath acknowledged that there were lots of downsides to Iceland's policies, with devaluation pushing up Iceland's prices by a quarter, capital controls pushing away investment and mass mortgage write-offs unfair when savers lost money.
However Heath also considered that other troubled economies could still learn from the Icelandic model. He said: "Sometimes total collapse followed by a swift rebound works better than a long-drawn out death.
"A sanitised version of what Iceland did - default, debt write-offs, shutting bust banks and devaluation - combined with dramatic supply-side reforms would undoubtedly make more sense for an economy such as Greece.".
Creating growth after the crisis
Back in 2008 the Icelandic banks defaulted on $85 billion, leaving the island's population buried under a burden of debt, and furious with their politicians and bankers for the country's economic collapse.
Now however, Iceland's economy looks set to outgrow both the euro area and the developed world on average, according to estimates by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
The OECD reckons Iceland's economy, which grew 2.9% last year, is set to go up 2.4% this year, compared to growth of just 0.2% in the euro area and 1.6% across the OECD area, as reported by Bloomberg.
Unorthodox approach to defaulting on debt
Yet Iceland has spurred this economic miracle without bailing out the bankers with untold billions.
Instead, Iceland did "everything the International Monetary Fund (IMF) or the global economic establishment thinks you should never do", according to Allister Heath, editor of business daily City A.M., when "it allowed banks to go bust, it defaulted on its debt, it reneged on international deals and so on, putting taxpayers first".
US commentator Cenk Uygur also highlighted the divergent Icelandic approach on this episode of The Young Turks.
Uygur described the Icelandic success story as based on nationalising the banks, indicting the bankers who caused the mess and bailing out 25% of the population by forgiving debt that exceeded 110% of property values.
"The lesson to be learned from Iceland's crisis is that if other countries think it's necessary to write down debts, they should look at how successful the 110% agreement was here," said Thorolfur Matthiasson, an economics professor at the University of Iceland in Reykjavik.
David Dayden also praised debt deleveraging for successfully bringing back the Icelandic economy, when writing on FDL.
Dayden contrasted the US reaction to its housing crisis, where the US refused to write-down debt as rewarding bad actors and causing moral hazard, and instead poured money into "back-door" bank bailouts.
He said: "Guess what? Debt write-downs do work. They generate a wealth effect among the population, and they help to end balance-sheet recessions and bring about economic growth.
"The facts reveal that austerity is counter-productive, while debt forgiveness is extremely productive."
Doubts about Iceland's example
Some commentators cast doubt on the success or otherwise of Iceland's approach.
Responding to the Bloomberg coverage, Ólafur Garðarsson described the 110% way as "an utter failure".
He said: "A quarter of all households in Iceland are in financial crisis mode, unable to make mortgage payments and in many cases not even able to buy groceries, let alone medicines and other necessities. Another quarter of households are on the brink of financial ruin."
Samúel Erlendur Lárusson also posted his concerns that even though currency-indexed loans were ruled illegal, they are "still being collected as the government refuses to take any action against the banks".
Mr Lárusson forecast that "few, if any of the indicted bankers will face anything more than minor fines".
Here on Mindful Money, Simon Ward, chief economist at Henderson, warned in his blog that Iceland's economic growth since devaluing the krona has not been significantly higher than in Balkan states that pursued austerity measures to defend euro exchange rates pegs.
At City A.M., Heath acknowledged that there were lots of downsides to Iceland's policies, with devaluation pushing up Iceland's prices by a quarter, capital controls pushing away investment and mass mortgage write-offs unfair when savers lost money.
However Heath also considered that other troubled economies could still learn from the Icelandic model. He said: "Sometimes total collapse followed by a swift rebound works better than a long-drawn out death.
"A sanitised version of what Iceland did - default, debt write-offs, shutting bust banks and devaluation - combined with dramatic supply-side reforms would undoubtedly make more sense for an economy such as Greece.".
Now let me see, bend over Enda there is a big frankfurter about to penetrate your **** yet again you gutless wimp!.
Very articulate silvergreaser - cut and paste an ambiguous article, followed by rectum and frankfurters, or whatever.
With your extensive economic knowledge - can you outline the path Ireland should take right now? or perhaps should have taken, and how you would think it would play out?
Little hint: - we are not Iceland, it would not be the same.
Another hint: - Ireland:- "F*ck off, Frankfurt - we're not paying a cent". Frankfurt:- "Ok, that's fine, no problems, you have enough to get you by, have you? Let us know, if you need a hand". Expand.
With your extensive economic knowledge - can you outline the path Ireland should take right now? or perhaps should have taken, and how you would think it would play out?
Little hint: - we are not Iceland, it would not be the same.
Another hint: - Ireland:- "F*ck off, Frankfurt - we're not paying a cent". Frankfurt:- "Ok, that's fine, no problems, you have enough to get you by, have you? Let us know, if you need a hand". Expand
.
too late for Bridget McCole harassed to the bitter end by that scumbag noonan.
If I am reading the terms of the deal correctly do the Irish Central Bank "borrow" from the ECB at base rate currently .75% and charge the Government 3%? Then the Central Bank make a profit on the loan which they return to the Government as their 100% owner.In effect the rate on the is close to the ECB base rate which is a real result for the Government.
For once I would have to say that my old adversary JayTrump might have it correct...it would look to me as if Patrick Honohan was the brains behind it.
For once I would have to say that my old adversary JayTrump might have it correct...it would look to me as if Patrick Honohan was the brains behind it.
Some people have it real bad and I hope their take on the gee gees is a bit better and I reckon most should stick to them.
The "Deal" is no big deal. The country pretty much owes the same amount but obviously the medication is now being delivered over a longer period. I have little doubt Enda, Noonan, Honohan et al had little to do with this. The idea that the "Brave trio" went in and dictated to the ECB, IMF, Draghi etc....is hilarious.
Well Diamond Joe, if there is one thing we can all take from this, it's that you have absolutely no clue what you are on about.
Wallflower, Iceland had balls for good or bad, they had balls. those wimps that masquerade as an Irish goverment spent their days getting **** up the ass so much so Kenny is in need of a new rectum, what a **** sucker, I'm sure spain, italy and greece will get a better deal, why?, because they don't feel the need to **** suck!
You are one bitter man Silvergreaser who in common with other recent threads is not letting the facts get in the way of a preconceived opinion.
yeah I'm a bitter man, tell me why tolmi?
do you want me do a dance or something?
do you want me do a dance or something?
hand in glove the sun shines right out of our behinds.
I don't think any right minded person would consider some of your posts on this thread civil.They are anything but.
my posts are not directed at any individual but a spineless goverment, what is wrong with my posts tolmi?
Maybe if you read them again you will come to a different conclusion.
when you're down €500 a month on a topped up mortgage come back to me, I'll never for the life of me see one last cent of that money they took off me, yet some in the media are calling yesterday a victory?, spare me please!
It's a ridiculous "deal". They have taken promisory notes which we should never have been paying back in the first place as they presently stood and turned them into sovereign debt. The spineless tools couldn't even get 0% Bonds which would have been manageable, inflation would have reduced the capital payback by about 30-40% by the time it came to principle became due. To really stick the boot in they appoint the former auditors of Irish Nationwide to liquidate IBRC, you couldn't make it up! KPMG are going to pull millions and millions in fees on this case and will feather the pension nest nicely for a whole host of people as the liquidation will take years to finalise. I mean PWC are still pulling six figures a year for the wind up of the Insurance Corporation of Ireland!
On a side note a friend of a friend who worked in KPMG Restructuring left during the week to begin a job with IBRC. Talk about timing!
On a side note a friend of a friend who worked in KPMG Restructuring left during the week to begin a job with IBRC. Talk about timing!
It is far from a riduclous deal.We had no hand to play and the ECB had us over a barrell with the amount of liquidity the are providing the Irish banking system.There was zero chance of a write down and the way it was structured means the effective interest rate is very competetive.
As for your topped up mortgage Silver you have my sympathy.
As for your topped up mortgage Silver you have my sympathy.
Although nobody is going to say it - does anyone really believe Ireland will ever pay back the capital in 25 years time......they will in their ar3e.
The reason it is a good "deal" in my view is that it is the first step in the eventual elimination / erosion of the debt.
We are in a severe hole (forgetting about the whys and where for(s) etc etc) - now the first thing you need to get out of any situation is time.
I'm not looking solely at the mathematics, the time element (ie. 25-40 years to get out of this).
silvergreaser, Iceland are not in the euro, if we were to do what they did we would probably have had to leave the EU. Spain, Italy differ completely from us - they are not completely broke. We have /had no source of funds, that's why it is so difficult.
If anybody thinks we are going to get out of this other than by step by step they are deluded or naive. Yesterday does not solve the whole thing but it certainly gives us the beginnings of being able to take this in our own hands.
The reason it is a good "deal" in my view is that it is the first step in the eventual elimination / erosion of the debt.
We are in a severe hole (forgetting about the whys and where for(s) etc etc) - now the first thing you need to get out of any situation is time.
I'm not looking solely at the mathematics, the time element (ie. 25-40 years to get out of this
).silvergreaser, Iceland are not in the euro, if we were to do what they did we would probably have had to leave the EU. Spain, Italy differ completely from us - they are not completely broke. We have /had no source of funds, that's why it is so difficult.
If anybody thinks we are going to get out of this other than by step by step they are deluded or naive. Yesterday does not solve the whole thing but it certainly gives us the beginnings of being able to take this in our own hands.
I agree the ECB held the upper hand but we are so far gone that Noonan could have afforded to play some chicken and see what happened. It's the lie back and take it attitude that grates with me. There was definitely a much better deal to be had on the capital repayments. The whole mismanagement of the PR element is astonishing too. No-one seems to be the steering the ship. I mean like Mike Aynsley strolling about over in London and first he heard about the liquidation was after the event.
....and I agreed completely with yours at 19.10.....
Allduckornodinner......what will be interesting in the years to come will be in auto-biographies etc, is what really went on behind closed doors in Frankfurt / Brussels / Dublin. One thing I've been pretty sure of is, whatever public stances were being made over the airwaves, I'm sure what we were saying in Europe may have been slightly different.
I used to find it laughable that the media here (and some of the opposition) thought that Noonan et al was going to relay what was said / what is going to be said. Childish.
I too, am angry and genuinely sickened at what went on, how could you not be? While I disagree at times with some of the approaches of this government - I do wish someone would ask SF - how the whole default thing was going to work. My gut instinct was not to pay......but I couldn't figure out how we could get away with it (disregarding the fact we were morally right to do so
) - and even now nobody has explained it to me in nay way that was even close to feasible.
Allduckornodinner......what will be interesting in the years to come will be in auto-biographies etc, is what really went on behind closed doors in Frankfurt / Brussels / Dublin. One thing I've been pretty sure of is, whatever public stances were being made over the airwaves, I'm sure what we were saying in Europe may have been slightly different.
I used to find it laughable that the media here (and some of the opposition) thought that Noonan et al was going to relay what was said / what is going to be said. Childish.
I too, am angry and genuinely sickened at what went on, how could you not be? While I disagree at times with some of the approaches of this government - I do wish someone would ask SF - how the whole default thing was going to work. My gut instinct was not to pay......but I couldn't figure out how we could get away with it (disregarding the fact we were morally right to do so
) - and even now nobody has explained it to me in nay way that was even close to feasible.
The inflation erosion argument re: the falling value of the debt is a bogus lie; the debt's interest rate is floating, not fixed - in times of high inflation, the EURIBOR interest rate [which determines this debt's coupon repayment level] will spike to counteract rising prices; hence increasing our cost of repayment.
The cost of which is unknown; sweeping statements from "Kenny Lite" about saving 20 billion are hocus-pocus sleight-of-hand.
A Faustian pact from charlatans.
The cost of which is unknown; sweeping statements from "Kenny Lite" about saving 20 billion are hocus-pocus sleight-of-hand.
A Faustian pact from charlatans.
It is a valid point about the future interest rate but it is equally valid to assume that the rate will lag behind inflation.The passage of time will erode the debt by the rate of inflation less the rate charged approximately.
You're forgetting that the EURIBOR's input data can easily be front-loaded to allow for such a time-based phenomenon.
Couldn't happen? Of course it can - LIBOR a perfect example of market manipulation to suit vested interests.
Much like the Irish property market; the cost of a barrel of oil; a bushel of wheat...
And the cost of money.
Couldn't happen? Of course it can - LIBOR a perfect example of market manipulation to suit vested interests.
Much like the Irish property market; the cost of a barrel of oil; a bushel of wheat...
And the cost of money.
Well Diamond Joe, if there is one thing we can all take from this, it's that you have absolutely no clue what you are on about.
You're right, I do spoute some 5hite about stuff I haven't a clue about. Think I'll join the gym, be more productive.
Note being sarcastic by the way.
You're right, I do spoute some 5hite about stuff I haven't a clue about. Think I'll join the gym, be more productive.
Note being sarcastic by the way.
The ECB couldnt be seen to let us off scot free. Ireland and our european brokers cant have a situation where the bond holders see investment in europe as being unstable (or any more unstable than it would already seem). The can has been firmly kicked down the road, and imo will be kicked down the road again and again. In 3/4 decades time this will be a story to tell our grand kids while moves are made to extend the loan term once again. By the time we actually have to pay anything inflation will have eroded the debt to such a degree that it will be at the very least extremely manageable
We needed an 'out' and the ECB needed an 'out'.
It has to be seen as a major success for our current government, but the fact remains we still have a deficit to tackle outside of the bank debt.
Tough budgets and the reality of less and less money in ordinary peoples pockets will not be solved by last nights deal.
Fianna Fails legacy still hangs around our necks like a hangmans noose and anyone who forgets that will do a greater injustice to our children.
We needed an 'out' and the ECB needed an 'out'.
It has to be seen as a major success for our current government, but the fact remains we still have a deficit to tackle outside of the bank debt.
Tough budgets and the reality of less and less money in ordinary peoples pockets will not be solved by last nights deal.
Fianna Fails legacy still hangs around our necks like a hangmans noose and anyone who forgets that will do a greater injustice to our children.
Fayzer Date Joined: 20 Dec 11
09 Feb 13 00:26
Fianna Fails legacy still hangs around our necks like a hangmans noose and anyone who forgets that will do a greater injustice to our children.
Below, from rte.ie earlier,
A new opinion poll has shown Fianna Fáil as the most popular party for the first time in almost five years.
Conducted among 1,000 voters, the Ipsos MRBI poll which is to be published in tomorrow's Irish Times, was taken on Monday and Tuesday.
According to the poll, support for Fine Gael is down six points since the last Irish Times poll in October, while Labour drops two to 10%.
For the first time in almost five years Fianna Fáil is in top position, up five points to 26%. Sinn Féin’s support is down two to 18%, while Independents and others are up five to 21%.
Just 18% of voters said they were satisfied with the Government, compared to 77% who are dissatisfied.
09 Feb 13 00:26
Fianna Fails legacy still hangs around our necks like a hangmans noose and anyone who forgets that will do a greater injustice to our children.
Below, from rte.ie earlier,
A new opinion poll has shown Fianna Fáil as the most popular party for the first time in almost five years.
Conducted among 1,000 voters, the Ipsos MRBI poll which is to be published in tomorrow's Irish Times, was taken on Monday and Tuesday.
According to the poll, support for Fine Gael is down six points since the last Irish Times poll in October, while Labour drops two to 10%.
For the first time in almost five years Fianna Fáil is in top position, up five points to 26%. Sinn Féin’s support is down two to 18%, while Independents and others are up five to 21%.
Just 18% of voters said they were satisfied with the Government, compared to 77% who are dissatisfied.
The results of this poll are truly amazing.No one could forsee this turn around in the fortunes of the Soldiers of Destiny. You might ask what is it that they have done, to bring this about ? Fianna Fail have done little or nothing. They didn't have to, because this present crowd have done it all, and continue to do it, arrogance beyond belief. Broken promises by the hatful.Smoke and mirrors instead of the transparency they promised. Not another cent to Anglo, and and our childrens children will know all about that! Frankfurt's way or Labour's way, well we know who won that one. It wasn't even close. This Government are hell bent on destroying, Teacher's profession, the Gardai, the Nurses, (lets not mention 3 card trick man Reilly), and anyone that watched our Parliament sitting the other night, must surely have seen and heard the heckling and shouting of Ministers, especially Howlin at the front.Apalling behaviour. This crowd have been intent on destroying our people from the moment they got elected, but as this poll shows we are a strong resourceful people and the Government have merely destroyed themselves.
25% fg 26 ff the poll proves one thing quiet clearly.more than half of the country are feckin imbeciles.
one gets the feeling that ultra bigot vubiants fawning over mr noonans great deal will turn into his usual seethfest when it transpires that the great deal will scupper the victimisation of the quinn group and subsequent court cases........
the poll is truly misleading.if it was taken now id say that fg would be up 10 and lab up 5..it was taken at the real wrong time for the current govt.and its truly anazing that ff are up so much.there really is room for an alternative centre right party in ireland.
This guy is leaving some legacy . How many times is a guy allowed to fail, before he is ditched for good. He is now introducing this property tax and this will surely see the end of Fine Gale. They will be vaporised at the next General Election, just like the Fianna Failers. But Fine Gale wont bounce back, Ever. How is it, that this crowd always seem to get it wrong. It must be plain arrogance. Ritchie Ryans shoe tax. John Brutal's big mouth. Poor Garrett's figures. Noonans Donegal episode. It just goes on+on.
What is wrong with this shower ? To turn the revenue on their own law-abiding citizens will never ever be forgotten.
But not only will they not tackle the wealthy in Ireland but they want to cut the pay of Teachers, Nurses and Guards.
Not only are they trying to to cut the pay of these frontline workers, but they are stripping the dis-abled of a little bit of a life. How awful is that ?
What is wrong with this shower ? To turn the revenue on their own law-abiding citizens will never ever be forgotten.
But not only will they not tackle the wealthy in Ireland but they want to cut the pay of Teachers, Nurses and Guards.
Not only are they trying to to cut the pay of these frontline workers, but they are stripping the dis-abled of a little bit of a life. How awful is that ?
Only a couple of weeks ago jay they were all patting each other on the back high fives all round after negotiating a deal with Europe over the wind up of Anglo, couldn't wait to remind us of the untold billions they were saving us every year, and yet they still insist in introducing this property tax?, not to mention they were straight back into hacking away again at the poor within the public service, who I may remind you have already taken huge cuts in pay and allowances.
If they introduce these threatened water charges in a country awash with water, that really will be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Oh and less we forget they will soon be handing back power to the banks, watch this space interests hikes all round, increased charges etc etc.
What a sad sad country we live in, I never thought I'd see the day when Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein would be sharing power?.
If they introduce these threatened water charges in a country awash with water, that really will be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Oh and less we forget they will soon be handing back power to the banks, watch this space interests hikes all round, increased charges etc etc.
What a sad sad country we live in, I never thought I'd see the day when Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein would be sharing power?.
It might have escaped your notice but our teachers, nurses and Gardai are among the top three best paid in their occupation in the EU courtesy of your hero Bertie and his benchmarking.
Can I ask you a straight question..Who would you think has done a better job ...this Government or the previous FF/Green administration?
Can I ask you a straight question..Who would you think has done a better job ...this Government or the previous FF/Green administration?
The two of them are equally as bad, Fine Gael particularly spineless.
Did it ever occur to you tolmi why you needed big wages in this country, do you remember the price of a simple 3 bedroomed house in this country before the crash or the price of a small family car?. Many of these people can't afford to pay for them now because of the drastic cuts they had to endure and no sign of it abating either with the gutless ones in power.
Probably the most expensive if not the most expensive in Europe at the time?. If you're going to throw out the high wages argument best to compare like with like first, the cost of living in most other European countries was dirt when compared with little old Ireland.
Did it ever occur to you tolmi why you needed big wages in this country, do you remember the price of a simple 3 bedroomed house in this country before the crash or the price of a small family car?. Many of these people can't afford to pay for them now because of the drastic cuts they had to endure and no sign of it abating either with the gutless ones in power.
Probably the most expensive if not the most expensive in Europe at the time?. If you're going to throw out the high wages argument best to compare like with like first, the cost of living in most other European countries was dirt when compared with little old Ireland.
I'm not stupid silvergreaser of course I know why wages needed to be higher than the rest of Europe.However I also know that unless the public spending is brought under control we will be accumating massive debt for future generations outside of the huge debt that is there already.The key point you are missing is that we are no longer anywhere near as expensive to live in compared to other European countries as we were 5 or more years ago.
Unfortunately the simple fact of the matter is that many people are not underpaid they are overborrowed.
Unfortunately the simple fact of the matter is that many people are not underpaid they are overborrowed.
Agree to a point, the cost of living in certain areas has come down, but in other areas its still extremely high, the already taxed to the hilt fuel prices are rising again, other essentials like gas, oil and electricity are still sky high, the grocery market is probably the only real place where a housewife could make a saving.
Of course because of the property crash the price of property has taken a dramatic nosedive but many are still tied to enormous negative equity which makes that scenario almost null and void.
Yes people over borrowed in some cases, borrowing because at the time they just about had the means to pay back, how much more do they want to take ffs?. If they keep taking money off people they get themselves even more into debt, that makes no sense at all to me?.
If they really want to cut back even more on public spending now is the time to introduce loads of early retirement packages as many within the public service are so p!ssed off thousands (particularly the older public service workers) would leap at the chance. If this is thought out and introduced properly then untold savings could be made and I'm no financial expert just my observation of the general mood that pervades at the moment within many public service environments.
Of course because of the property crash the price of property has taken a dramatic nosedive but many are still tied to enormous negative equity which makes that scenario almost null and void.
Yes people over borrowed in some cases, borrowing because at the time they just about had the means to pay back, how much more do they want to take ffs?. If they keep taking money off people they get themselves even more into debt, that makes no sense at all to me?.
If they really want to cut back even more on public spending now is the time to introduce loads of early retirement packages as many within the public service are so p!ssed off thousands (particularly the older public service workers) would leap at the chance. If this is thought out and introduced properly then untold savings could be made and I'm no financial expert just my observation of the general mood that pervades at the moment within many public service environments.
Early Retirement packages silvergreaser?...its longer hours for public servents and push retirement out until 66 for public sector workers we need..otherwise we will have to cut the dole and it wouldnt be fair to attack the vunerable...some dolers might have to downgrade their Sky Packages or only go to two Premiership matchs a year..cant have this ...most of the private sector are unemployed or have emigrated so Public sector workers will have to take the pain to ensure those who choose not to work can continue this great tradition tolerated in this country!
I'm sure those over worked nurses would disagree timber, they work horrendous hours doing jobs that many of us would cringe at the thought.
Very well said silver, some very well thought out posts from you there, and on the whole I have to come down on your side.Yes there must be a huge chance that we will have Michail Martin/Gerry Adams coalition, as I feel that Martin wont be in a position to go with Gilmore's way or Frankfurts way. Labour will also most likely be vaporised next time out.
Pity no new party coming through.
Absolutely spineless people running the country at the moment,
Also note that the Civil Servant from Revenue charged with bringing in this Property tax, is herself on 200k a yr plus exes. And Tolmi wants to cut night time rates for Guards and Nurses.......nurses who work so hard,long long hours, we should cherish these people......
Pity no new party coming through.
Absolutely spineless people running the country at the moment,
Also note that the Civil Servant from Revenue charged with bringing in this Property tax, is herself on 200k a yr plus exes. And Tolmi wants to cut night time rates for Guards and Nurses.......nurses who work so hard,long long hours, we should cherish these people......
The simple fact of the matter is that we as a country are spending billions more than we are taking in in taxes.It is no secret that we spend at least as much per head of population on our health service as the French yet they have a world class health service and we don't.The unpalatable decisions that have to be made are either cutting back services which cause outcry or cutting back wages which in my opinion is the fairer alternative.
As for retiring people earlier I spoke with an actuary recently discussing a local garda who had taken early retirement.He valued his package at over €2m if a private sector worker were to get the same deal.The public sector pension is a massive timebomb coming down the track with people living much longer and totally inadequate funding in place for the pensions.
The other area that we need to tackle is the excessive public expenditure on Social Welfare.It would appear that despite an opportunity to do so the Government will put Children's Allowance reform on the long finger.How can it make sense to have someone on less than €20k a year paying tax part of which goes to fund Children's Allowance for a family earning €200k a year?In addition the Social Welfare system has encouraged larger families on Social Welfare to stay on it with a person on Welfare receiving extra par child yet a working family having to pay for the extra cost out of their after tax income.Makes no sense...
The more I read Jay Trump the more I think Sinn Fein is his natural political party...condemning all tax rises and also opposing any expenditure cuts.At least Fianna Fail have been by and large responsible in opposition which I would think is the reason they have been doing well in polls.
As for retiring people earlier I spoke with an actuary recently discussing a local garda who had taken early retirement.He valued his package at over €2m if a private sector worker were to get the same deal.The public sector pension is a massive timebomb coming down the track with people living much longer and totally inadequate funding in place for the pensions.
The other area that we need to tackle is the excessive public expenditure on Social Welfare.It would appear that despite an opportunity to do so the Government will put Children's Allowance reform on the long finger.How can it make sense to have someone on less than €20k a year paying tax part of which goes to fund Children's Allowance for a family earning €200k a year?In addition the Social Welfare system has encouraged larger families on Social Welfare to stay on it with a person on Welfare receiving extra par child yet a working family having to pay for the extra cost out of their after tax income.Makes no sense...
The more I read Jay Trump the more I think Sinn Fein is his natural political party...condemning all tax rises and also opposing any expenditure cuts.At least Fianna Fail have been by and large responsible in opposition which I would think is the reason they have been doing well in polls.
Hope some of you got a chance to read the back page of this Sundays Independent as both articles by Gene Kerrigan and Eilis Hanlon are well worth a read.
So tolmi I take as correct that your good self are in favour of cuts to the dis-abled and to the Guards and Nurses, while these so called Ministers earn north of 250K per annum.
Do you know what jobs Kenny, Noonan, Varadiker held before they became full-time chancers.
Well they were not Rocket-Scientists, just ordinary joe-soaps, and you feel happy enough for them to pay themselves huge salaries ! a-hem......while they cut the Nurses, Teachers, and Guards pay. Oh and they cut away at the most vulnerable in our society as well.
Oh btw there are 40% of floating voters according to the latest poll, and some of these are like a woman in Marks+Spencers, they don't know what they want.
Before any tax cuts I would like to hear these Minsters shout out that they will do their job all-in for 100k, no perks... and then lets discuss other cuts and stealth taxes........
So tolmi I take as correct that your good self are in favour of cuts to the dis-abled and to the Guards and Nurses, while these so called Ministers earn north of 250K per annum.
Do you know what jobs Kenny, Noonan, Varadiker held before they became full-time chancers.
Well they were not Rocket-Scientists, just ordinary joe-soaps, and you feel happy enough for them to pay themselves huge salaries ! a-hem......while they cut the Nurses, Teachers, and Guards pay. Oh and they cut away at the most vulnerable in our society as well.
Oh btw there are 40% of floating voters according to the latest poll, and some of these are like a woman in Marks+Spencers, they don't know what they want.
Before any tax cuts I would like to hear these Minsters shout out that they will do their job all-in for 100k, no perks... and then lets discuss other cuts and stealth taxes........
On a point of information JTOTD -Ministers' salaries are currently around E145,000.I agree that it is still too much but let's not over-egg the pudding of indignation.
We must bear in mind the insanity that sees the Secretary-General of the Dept of Finance earning 199,000 ( even after the latest reduction. This is 14,000 more than the Taoiseach and 54,000 more than the Minister of Finance.
And remember the obscene salaries paid to the main RTE presenters . People spill out their stories of misery to Joe Duffy who is probably on 10 to 12 times the annual industrial wage ...not to mention Pat Kenny who has to struggle by on over 600,000 and that waste of space Finucane who is on something over 400,000 I believe.
It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
We must bear in mind the insanity that sees the Secretary-General of the Dept of Finance earning 199,000 ( even after the latest reduction. This is 14,000 more than the Taoiseach and 54,000 more than the Minister of Finance.
And remember the obscene salaries paid to the main RTE presenters . People spill out their stories of misery to Joe Duffy who is probably on 10 to 12 times the annual industrial wage ...not to mention Pat Kenny who has to struggle by on over 600,000 and that waste of space Finucane who is on something over 400,000 I believe.
It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
not long now before Fine Gael become like Fianna Fail and become another political wasteland.
Sinn Fein are rubbing their hands in glee, 10 year ago you would never even dream of such a scenario, the party faithful might just be strong enough to keep the shinners out, but only just?.
Sinn Fein are rubbing their hands in glee, 10 year ago you would never even dream of such a scenario, the party faithful might just be strong enough to keep the shinners out, but only just?.
Jay Trump,
If you can point out at any stage on this or any other thread where I made a statement advocating cuts to the disabled I will make a substantial donation to any charity of your choice.If not I await your apology for implying that I did.
If you can point out at any stage on this or any other thread where I made a statement advocating cuts to the disabled I will make a substantial donation to any charity of your choice.If not I await your apology for implying that I did.
Said i would put up the link to this mornings news that BANK OF IRELAND MADE LOSSES OF 2.1 BILLION for 2012
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0304/371925-bank-of-ireland-reports-loss-of-2-1-billion-for-2/
Their chief executive Mr Boucher is able to go before Oireachtas committees and basically give them the two fingers
Our Minister for Finance is on the news a few weeks ago boasting we are over the worst are returning to the markets .
And the headline of this thread is Michael Noonan National Hero !!!!
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0304/371925-bank-of-ireland-reports-loss-of-2-1-billion-for-2/
Their chief executive Mr Boucher is able to go before Oireachtas committees and basically give them the two fingers
Our Minister for Finance is on the news a few weeks ago boasting we are over the worst are returning to the markets .
And the headline of this thread is Michael Noonan National Hero !!!!
Excellent post dingle, national hero my acss
Vubiant dont forget to take into account all the travel exes, vouched and unvouched.
OK tolmi sorry if I implied that you your good self are in favour of cuts to the disabled, when in fact you intimate that you are more in favour of cuts to wages for our Nurses, Teachers, Firemen, Guards,low paid Public+Civil servants etc. However your un-wavering support for this Fine Gale/Labour Government most certainly allows for inferences to be drawn that you will support them to the end regardless of any cuts, new stealth taxes,and their failure, and inability to see that austerity has crippled our people.
Enda has said that it is morally wrong to tax a persons home. But he is happy to do it now to bail out his bank buddies.
Also tolmi you have persistently put up posts more or less alleging that I am a Fianna Fail voter. In one of your latest posts you have attempted to link me with Sinn Fein. I take no umbrage from these inaccurate assertions.
Vubiant dont forget to take into account all the travel exes, vouched and unvouched.
OK tolmi sorry if I implied that you your good self are in favour of cuts to the disabled, when in fact you intimate that you are more in favour of cuts to wages for our Nurses, Teachers, Firemen, Guards,low paid Public+Civil servants etc. However your un-wavering support for this Fine Gale/Labour Government most certainly allows for inferences to be drawn that you will support them to the end regardless of any cuts, new stealth taxes,and their failure, and inability to see that austerity has crippled our people.
Enda has said that it is morally wrong to tax a persons home. But he is happy to do it now to bail out his bank buddies.
Also tolmi you have persistently put up posts more or less alleging that I am a Fianna Fail voter. In one of your latest posts you have attempted to link me with Sinn Fein. I take no umbrage from these inaccurate assertions.
well it says it all about the op when he classifies noonan as a national hero.........he maybe a national hero to a select few in areas like abbeyfeale/templeglantine and in small pockets of east limerick.........but to most in this country that he has robbed since becoming finance minister.....(to many to name)he is DESPISED and come election time this blue shirt / workers party coalition will be kicked quite firmly into touch.......on another point before i finish.....gay mitchell thought he was a national hero aswell......oh dear.....he put it up to martin mc guiness didnt he......haha.........a laughing stock/bigot who the public do not and will not identify with..........just like the blueshirt graball association he represents.......
At no stage did I link you to Sinn Fein.I merely stated that Sinn Fein would appear to be your natural habitat given your ability to oppose all tax increases and also all cuts in expenditure.
As for Fianna Fail I recall in a thread in the past you admitting having been a Fianna Fail supporter.If I am incorrect in my recall I apologise but normally my memoey is quite accurate.
In common with many contributors to this thread you do not appear to understand what needs to be done to bring our budget deficit down to 3% of GDP.Our memorandum with the Troika which was necessary because of the ineptitude of our previous government contained many clauses one of which happened to be reducing our expenditure on health.As a % of GDP our health spending is well in excess of many of our EU neighbours.In order to bring this expenditure back into line cuts need to be made in this area.I am merely stating that if you don't cut wages you have to cut services.Obviously in the ideal world a combination of savings made on the ridiculous cost of medicine and the removal of some of the layers of HSE bureaucracy would suffice but this seems to be beyond the ability of the Government/HSE/Unions.In this event tackling the wages of staff would seem to be a fairer way to me than making cuts to disabled services.
A nurse working a 12 hour shift on a Sunday earns €417.This is far in excess of comparative rates in our neighbouring countries and would seem to me to be excessive and in need of addressing.The moaning of the creepy Liam Doran makes my stomach churn.
As for Fianna Fail I recall in a thread in the past you admitting having been a Fianna Fail supporter.If I am incorrect in my recall I apologise but normally my memoey is quite accurate.
In common with many contributors to this thread you do not appear to understand what needs to be done to bring our budget deficit down to 3% of GDP.Our memorandum with the Troika which was necessary because of the ineptitude of our previous government contained many clauses one of which happened to be reducing our expenditure on health.As a % of GDP our health spending is well in excess of many of our EU neighbours.In order to bring this expenditure back into line cuts need to be made in this area.I am merely stating that if you don't cut wages you have to cut services.Obviously in the ideal world a combination of savings made on the ridiculous cost of medicine and the removal of some of the layers of HSE bureaucracy would suffice but this seems to be beyond the ability of the Government/HSE/Unions.In this event tackling the wages of staff would seem to be a fairer way to me than making cuts to disabled services.
A nurse working a 12 hour shift on a Sunday earns €417.This is far in excess of comparative rates in our neighbouring countries and would seem to me to be excessive and in need of addressing.The moaning of the creepy Liam Doran makes my stomach churn.
Well tolmi imho your memory is about as sharp as Enda Kenny's. He who says he never speaks about opinion polls, yet the most senior RTE political reporter (David Davinpower), stated today on the radio that "he has in the past".
Now Kenny thinks we are going in the right direction, austerity is working, in his opinion maybe, with his fine big salary he doesn't see austerity.
Saddle up the Irish citizens, and whip them into line, LPT, water charges, septic tank charges, no jobs, no hope for our young, thousands emigrating every month, but noonan and Kenny care not. The Germans and the bankers are sleeping well. Paddy knows whats happening Enda and he will wait..........
btw tolmi keep your half-heated apology, I couldn't give two hoots about it.But do chek your memory stick..........
Now Kenny thinks we are going in the right direction, austerity is working, in his opinion maybe, with his fine big salary he doesn't see austerity.
Saddle up the Irish citizens, and whip them into line, LPT, water charges, septic tank charges, no jobs, no hope for our young, thousands emigrating every month, but noonan and Kenny care not. The Germans and the bankers are sleeping well. Paddy knows whats happening Enda and he will wait..........
btw tolmi keep your half-heated apology, I couldn't give two hoots about it.But do chek your memory stick..........
My apology was not half hearted it was genuine conditional obviously on being wrong in my recollection.At no stage in your latest reply did you address the point about yourself and Fianna Fail.Instead you went off on some bizarre rambling about my memory, Enda Kenny and opinion polls.
Unlike yourself I try to look at our predicament objectively.In this thread alone I gave credit to Patrick Honohan not Michael Noonan for the promissory note deal and also gave credit to Fianna Fail for providing constructive opposition.You on the other hand unleash a constant stream of bile against the Government yet when I asked you directly about your opinion on the real architects of our downfall Ahern, Cowen, Dempsey,Haughey,Burke,Flynn et al you failed to reply.Unlike many of the above I happen to think that at least Enda Kenny is not corrupt.
For what its worth austerity is the only long term solution to our underlying problems.We as a nation have been living way beyond our means and while I would disagree with some of the methods being used to reduce our budget deficit I agree with the concept of bringing under control.
If you tried to be more objective in your appraisal of our current position and less blinkered in your views you might have a better chance of being able to articulate your point.
Unlike yourself I try to look at our predicament objectively.In this thread alone I gave credit to Patrick Honohan not Michael Noonan for the promissory note deal and also gave credit to Fianna Fail for providing constructive opposition.You on the other hand unleash a constant stream of bile against the Government yet when I asked you directly about your opinion on the real architects of our downfall Ahern, Cowen, Dempsey,Haughey,Burke,Flynn et al you failed to reply.Unlike many of the above I happen to think that at least Enda Kenny is not corrupt.
For what its worth austerity is the only long term solution to our underlying problems.We as a nation have been living way beyond our means and while I would disagree with some of the methods being used to reduce our budget deficit I agree with the concept of bringing under control.
If you tried to be more objective in your appraisal of our current position and less blinkered in your views you might have a better chance of being able to articulate your point.
Bring it under control?, what putting hundreds of thousands further into debt?.
I was referring to getting the budget deficit under control not any private debt.
The big bully is on prime time should be interesting.
Put himself in line to be the next Pope Id imagine. Has the right frame, speaks well and would look well in a frock.
Only problem, every time his lips move he's telling a lie or bullsh11ting.
And enda wouldn't be around to pull the strings.
Only problem, every time his lips move he's telling a lie or bullsh11ting.
And enda wouldn't be around to pull the strings.
Agree was very reserved and cherry picked his replies, its a pity he wasn't put in front of a live audience for a grilling.
Well done again to Mr. Noonan ...a solid calm performance ...totally unruffled as usual.
One ridiculous comment Kenny and others keep coming out with is 'money going out of the economy'.
Money does not go out of the economy -it simply moves to a different place .
e.g. people paying debts to a bank means that loans can become available to someone else to create jobs which recycles the money around again.
One ridiculous comment Kenny and others keep coming out with is 'money going out of the economy'.
Money does not go out of the economy -it simply moves to a different place .
e.g. people paying debts to a bank means that loans can become available to someone else to create jobs which recycles the money around again.
If Prime time is not live I'd suspect Mr Noonan is the original poster alias vubiant. Surely he could be the only braindead gobsh11t that could make us believe such garbage.
well its hardly been regenerated into the economy when their only policy is to take take take and take some more.
there will be wine and cheese in abbeyfeale 2nite after that performance at the tory branch meeting........
Its illegal in every civilized country of the World to be a BULLY unless your a member of government in Ireland. And people recognize these persons as heros, shame on you and more so SHAME on them.
Money that is collected by the government is circulated and recycled in other parts of the overall budget.
And yes , some of it has also to go to repay borrowings -because as kids learn in primary school if not before -what is borrowed has to be repaid.
here are two other propositions that even the mentally challenged could understand
- Services must be paid for
- Budgets must be balanced within sensible limits
For more information on why Ireland has no money of its own please contact Messrs B Ahern , B Cowan.
Mr. M Martin should also be able to help since he sat at the cabinet table for over a decade and defended and supported everything done by the above mentioned worthies.
And yes , some of it has also to go to repay borrowings -because as kids learn in primary school if not before -what is borrowed has to be repaid.
here are two other propositions that even the mentally challenged could understand
- Services must be paid for
- Budgets must be balanced within sensible limits
For more information on why Ireland has no money of its own please contact Messrs B Ahern , B Cowan.
Mr. M Martin should also be able to help since he sat at the cabinet table for over a decade and defended and supported everything done by the above mentioned worthies.
Once again this comedy of errors man has put forward another disastrous idea, that the bankers should cut their pay by 10%. What effect would 10% have on the high paid guys, like the hed if AIb, or BoI, ? yes not a lot, but it would crush the lower paid such as Tellers ans money counters. Goodman ML. catch the the low paid again.
Interesting that Fr. Sean Healy wants the Ministers jailed, in his latest condemnation of this awful Government.He goes onto say 'that Ireland is failing its poorest people, and this Government has presided over the biggest gift to the wealthy in the history of the nation'. He says 'Government members who agreed to the Anglo Irish pommissory note deal should be put in jail for theft', and then goes onto say that the evictions to come will be the 'turning point'.
Interesting that Fr. Sean Healy wants the Ministers jailed, in his latest condemnation of this awful Government.He goes onto say 'that Ireland is failing its poorest people, and this Government has presided over the biggest gift to the wealthy in the history of the nation'. He says 'Government members who agreed to the Anglo Irish pommissory note deal should be put in jail for theft', and then goes onto say that the evictions to come will be the 'turning point'.
Just wondering at the mention of Fr. Sean Healy ....has that eloquent padre ever called for sanctions against the Cardinals , Bishops , Priests , Brothers and Nuns
who visited such indignities and suffering on the children of the poor who were entrusted to their various institutions over many decades ?
Has he ever inveighed against the hypocritical cover-ups and 'mental reservations' of the top hierarchy ?
Has he ever called for the wealthy religious orders to provide proper contributions to the redress effort and for an end to the legal stalling and obfuscation?
who visited such indignities and suffering on the children of the poor who were entrusted to their various institutions over many decades ?
Has he ever inveighed against the hypocritical cover-ups and 'mental reservations' of the top hierarchy ?
Has he ever called for the wealthy religious orders to provide proper contributions to the redress effort and for an end to the legal stalling and obfuscation?
I think now I have heard it all, and certainly all I want to hear about MICHAEL NOONAN, National Hero,
I have to say that when I first heard of the attempts, and the serious threat, to steal money from the accounts of Cypriot depositers, I was fearful but hopeful that our great clowns had nothing to do with this, but lo and behold,it was Noonan ,(as Merkels puppet, sorry muppet), that decided to burn the ordinary Cypriot depositer.He chaired the meeting !!!!
National hero, tell that to the ordinary Cypriot on the street later today.....and we used to jail bank robbers, shameful absolutely disgraceful, from the 68yr old minster whose own monies are safely invested in German Bonds..........
I have to say that when I first heard of the attempts, and the serious threat, to steal money from the accounts of Cypriot depositers, I was fearful but hopeful that our great clowns had nothing to do with this, but lo and behold,it was Noonan ,(as Merkels puppet, sorry muppet), that decided to burn the ordinary Cypriot depositer.He chaired the meeting !!!!
National hero, tell that to the ordinary Cypriot on the street later today.....and we used to jail bank robbers, shameful absolutely disgraceful, from the 68yr old minster whose own monies are safely invested in German Bonds..........
I suppose Richie Boucher from BOI will be going forward for national hero with our Minister for Finance . He must have being doing extraordinary things in 2012 to pay himself wait for it €843,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although in all fairness to Richie he should have actually paid himself €910,000 but waived €67,000 . Great fella Richie ..... see below
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0319/377389-boi-richie-boucher/
National heroes Noonan and Boucher .......The headline on this thread just beggars belief
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0319/377389-boi-richie-boucher/
National heroes Noonan and Boucher .......The headline on this thread just beggars belief
the man named and indeed the autor of this thread are frauds.........irishmen me WHOLE.......NATIONAL HERO NO.......WESHT BRITS.....VERY MUCH SO.......
JTOTD - re. your 18 Mar 12.30 post
-Ml. Noonan did not chair the meeting where the bailout terms for Cyprus were agreed last w/end. This was not a full EU committee it was the Eurozone committee.
Criticism is fine -but it should be based on facts -not prejudice.
-Ml. Noonan did not chair the meeting where the bailout terms for Cyprus were agreed last w/end. This was not a full EU committee it was the Eurozone committee.
Criticism is fine -but it should be based on facts -not prejudice.
And of course for certain suir Noonan and Enda didn't know the tapes on Anglo Bankers existed. Three years and they knew nothing. What a disgrace this crowd. Merkels muppet's.
I hope they read Gene Kerrigan's article on the Sunday Indo today...........
I hope they read Gene Kerrigan's article on the Sunday Indo today...........
What the Anglo tapes show more than anything is that the guys at the top are nothing more than glorified bull5hitters.
We all hear about the pay limit on bankers and how it will drive "Talent" out of the country.........yet I am failing to see this talent. Listening to the tapes of Drum just confirm the spoofers are in charge.
The government/regulators didnt even have a clue what the over all balance sheet/picture of the banks looked like and they still dont. Neary was a career civil servant who probably didnt even know what a loan was yet alone how to regulate them.
Anyone hear Manseragh on RTE this morning saying how little information was known and defending Kevin Cardiff. When asked what part he played given he was minister for state for finance at the time, he kept replying how he only played a cover role and his main work was in Public works and wasnt even in the same building as Lenihan.This government is no different.
One great point was made though..........for all the bullshit that cretin Kenny spouts at every opportunity, what has he got to say about the "LOWRY Tapes"???? given he has so much to say about the Anglo ones......
We all hear about the pay limit on bankers and how it will drive "Talent" out of the country.........yet I am failing to see this talent. Listening to the tapes of Drum just confirm the spoofers are in charge.
The government/regulators didnt even have a clue what the over all balance sheet/picture of the banks looked like and they still dont. Neary was a career civil servant who probably didnt even know what a loan was yet alone how to regulate them.
Anyone hear Manseragh on RTE this morning saying how little information was known and defending Kevin Cardiff. When asked what part he played given he was minister for state for finance at the time, he kept replying how he only played a cover role and his main work was in Public works and wasnt even in the same building as Lenihan.This government is no different.
One great point was made though..........for all the bullshit that cretin Kenny spouts at every opportunity, what has he got to say about the "LOWRY Tapes"???? given he has so much to say about the Anglo ones......
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/kenny-bows-down-b...
It shines out ever more clearly at home and abroad how Michael Noonan has performed so brilliantly in the financial engine-room as Ireland's ship of state has had to be manoeuvred off the rocks of ruin and gingerly refloated.
Kenny has done well too -he does the necessary gladhanding and talks the talk whereas Noonan is the no-nonsense expert who walks the walk.
People around Europe saw they were dealing with a serious politician who knew his brief and could conduct tortuous negotiations patiently and persuasively.
In Noonan's recent interviews his answers contained clear substantive thinking and were delivered with a fluency and tone that offers reassurance to the Irish people for the challenging period that still lies ahead.
Kenny has done well too -he does the necessary gladhanding and talks the talk whereas Noonan is the no-nonsense expert who walks the walk.
People around Europe saw they were dealing with a serious politician who knew his brief and could conduct tortuous negotiations patiently and persuasively.
In Noonan's recent interviews his answers contained clear substantive thinking and were delivered with a fluency and tone that offers reassurance to the Irish people for the challenging period that still lies ahead.
The truth is we have zero control over our fiscal or monetary policy and hence are sailing rudderless.The most bizarre policy decision ever was to implement a pro cyclical cut in fiscal budgets (enforced by the Germans-pact for stability and growth should have been shelved)
It's now 6 years since the financial crisis-unemployment in euro zone at 12%,economic growth at .1% for 3rd quarter compared to United States of 7% unemployment with 2,5% annual growth.
Euro zone now looking at implementing negative interest rates-too late half the continent is ensnared in the liquidity trap,can't implement a QE programme due to a lack of a banking union and a functioning bank funding channel.
Inevitable Split in Euro zone is incoming.
It's now 6 years since the financial crisis-unemployment in euro zone at 12%,economic growth at .1% for 3rd quarter compared to United States of 7% unemployment with 2,5% annual growth.
Euro zone now looking at implementing negative interest rates-too late half the continent is ensnared in the liquidity trap,can't implement a QE programme due to a lack of a banking union and a functioning bank funding channel.
Inevitable Split in Euro zone is incoming.
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