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19 Dec 12
13:27
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05 Jan 10
http://www.independent.ie
IRELAND has fallen six places to 42nd in the latest FIFA world rankings after a series of poor performances by Giovanni Trapattoni’s team.
The Boys in Green are now level with Bolivia and west African nation Gabon, three places below Caribbean minnows Haiti who occupy 39th place.
Ahead of Euro 2012, Ireland were ranked 18th, but a disastrous tournament with defeats to Croatia, Italy and Spain meant a drop of eight places to 26th going into the World Cup qualifiers.
The slide continued throughout the autumn with Ireland dropping to 36th after suffering a record 6-1 home mauling at the hands of the Germans.
Ireland will now finish the year outside the top 40 for the first time since 2006.
Meanwhile, Northern Ireland, who rose 17 places into the top 100 in the last rankings, continued their climb, rising four places to 96th.
England remain sixth, while Wales have dropped 16 places to 82nd, falling behind fellow Group A strugglers Scotland, who drop two places to 72nd.
Spain finish the year at the top spot, with Germany and Argentina remaining in second and third respectively, while Italy move into fourth spot.
A run of six wins in eight games in 2012 has seen Colombia move up from 36th at the end of last year and into the top five, while Portugal have drifted three places to seventh
IRELAND has fallen six places to 42nd in the latest FIFA world rankings after a series of poor performances by Giovanni Trapattoni’s team.
The Boys in Green are now level with Bolivia and west African nation Gabon, three places below Caribbean minnows Haiti who occupy 39th place.
Ahead of Euro 2012, Ireland were ranked 18th, but a disastrous tournament with defeats to Croatia, Italy and Spain meant a drop of eight places to 26th going into the World Cup qualifiers.
The slide continued throughout the autumn with Ireland dropping to 36th after suffering a record 6-1 home mauling at the hands of the Germans.
Ireland will now finish the year outside the top 40 for the first time since 2006.
Meanwhile, Northern Ireland, who rose 17 places into the top 100 in the last rankings, continued their climb, rising four places to 96th.
England remain sixth, while Wales have dropped 16 places to 82nd, falling behind fellow Group A strugglers Scotland, who drop two places to 72nd.
Spain finish the year at the top spot, with Germany and Argentina remaining in second and third respectively, while Italy move into fourth spot.
A run of six wins in eight games in 2012 has seen Colombia move up from 36th at the end of last year and into the top five, while Portugal have drifted three places to seventh
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Who cares........means absolutely nothing.
Completely flawed and irrelevant; principally because the underlying premise that you can somehow accurately rank teams from 1......100.....200 or whatever is nonsensical to begin with.
Completely flawed and irrelevant; principally because the underlying premise that you can somehow accurately rank teams from 1......100.....200 or whatever is nonsensical to begin with.
Traditionally we are quite good at most sports , part of our national psyche . Once upon a time Irish people were bigger and stronger than most of the population of the world , so seen on the number of excellent performances in Olympic sports over a hundred years ago and subsequently . But the rest of the world has caught up a lot in those hundred years , so from now on its brain as against brawn , thinking simplistically . Or better organisation , planning , tactics etc . Or rounder wheels .
We are around 7 in the world in rugby , have been slightly higher , but we are holding that status comfortably . That comment probably also goes back over the 100 years period .
42 and 96 in the soccer world is pretty poor , given the number who play soccer in Ireland , south and north. Twas not always thus , Northern Ireland have twice graced the closing stages of the World Cup , but latest over 30 years ago , and then not with as good a set of footballers as in 1958 in my opinion . So NI have regressed , dont think there is much debate over that , despite having produced many world class players , but not recently .
ROI have also appeared in later stages in World cup , despite having been lesser in international terms than NI in the 100 year window I am talking about for various reasons , not least being the competition from other sports in the 26 counties ( GAA mainly ) . High point under JC and Mick , but now seem to be going backwards .
Surely in the light of these facts , and also looking at our smaller neighbours Wales and Scotland , both also struggling , is it not time to rationalise and have only 2 teams representing the entities that are 2 islands instead of having 5 fairly nondescript teams --England dont cut a lot of mustard with me in world terms as it stands , despite their lofty assessment .
Team Ireland and Team GB make more sense than the current arrangements which are going nowhere as far as I see . From a logistical and support viewpoint it might also make sense , no doubt it would rattle a lot of cages initially , but it would surely be worth a bit of debate . Certainly in Ireland in sporting terms when the island is united they do better sporting wise , rugby being a prime example . Logical too . Unlikely that a rugby team from the 26 counties or the 6 counties would have done as well as our record from 32 counties is .
In 1958 Northern Ireland might have done even better had they had the options of say 5 players from the ROI ( we in the north were dominant then in terms of soccer ability north vs south , but the addition of those players would definitely have strengthened the squad , irrespective of starting XI--Charlie Hurley springs to mind ). Same applies to 1982 , and while I am not as au fait with soccer more recently , there must have been some NI players who would have boosted the ROI squads in recent forays ( see the way the map changes ).
I do realise that the soccer administrators south and north have a long history of having a lot of bolli*es in their midst , but we both live in some sort of democracies , and surely it would not be beyond sorting out something more sensible than at present , where we are both going nowhere .
Derek Dougan tried to get something going , fair play to a non nationalist from the Donegall Road , but ran into brick walls north and south . Time to replough the field maybe .
We are around 7 in the world in rugby , have been slightly higher , but we are holding that status comfortably . That comment probably also goes back over the 100 years period .
42 and 96 in the soccer world is pretty poor , given the number who play soccer in Ireland , south and north. Twas not always thus , Northern Ireland have twice graced the closing stages of the World Cup , but latest over 30 years ago , and then not with as good a set of footballers as in 1958 in my opinion . So NI have regressed , dont think there is much debate over that , despite having produced many world class players , but not recently .
ROI have also appeared in later stages in World cup , despite having been lesser in international terms than NI in the 100 year window I am talking about for various reasons , not least being the competition from other sports in the 26 counties ( GAA mainly ) . High point under JC and Mick , but now seem to be going backwards .
Surely in the light of these facts , and also looking at our smaller neighbours Wales and Scotland , both also struggling , is it not time to rationalise and have only 2 teams representing the entities that are 2 islands instead of having 5 fairly nondescript teams --England dont cut a lot of mustard with me in world terms as it stands , despite their lofty assessment .
Team Ireland and Team GB make more sense than the current arrangements which are going nowhere as far as I see . From a logistical and support viewpoint it might also make sense , no doubt it would rattle a lot of cages initially , but it would surely be worth a bit of debate . Certainly in Ireland in sporting terms when the island is united they do better sporting wise , rugby being a prime example . Logical too . Unlikely that a rugby team from the 26 counties or the 6 counties would have done as well as our record from 32 counties is .
In 1958 Northern Ireland might have done even better had they had the options of say 5 players from the ROI ( we in the north were dominant then in terms of soccer ability north vs south , but the addition of those players would definitely have strengthened the squad , irrespective of starting XI--Charlie Hurley springs to mind ). Same applies to 1982 , and while I am not as au fait with soccer more recently , there must have been some NI players who would have boosted the ROI squads in recent forays ( see the way the map changes ).
I do realise that the soccer administrators south and north have a long history of having a lot of bolli*es in their midst , but we both live in some sort of democracies , and surely it would not be beyond sorting out something more sensible than at present , where we are both going nowhere .
Derek Dougan tried to get something going , fair play to a non nationalist from the Donegall Road , but ran into brick walls north and south . Time to replough the field maybe .
Ehmm, no it's not......miniscule (if any) support in it from a fan point of view; and no organisation or person has any kind of vested interest it.
As for Team GB
. Be sensible, never ever going to happen, nor should it.
As for Team GB
. Be sensible, never ever going to happen, nor should it.
football rankings never really make sense to me.............surprised theres only 41 nations reckoned to be better than us
Wallflower , 40 years ago no one would have contemplated a European Ryder Cup team . But it took an American to suggest it . Sometimes people have to think outside the box .
Those Fifa ranking are useless, if you want to by rankings then go by these not perfect but more accurate
http://www.eloratings.net/
http://www.eloratings.net/
Kelly, you may have to think "outside the box" (over-used, over-rated cliche) to solve a problem.
However, there is no originating problem here
. As I pointed out there is no interest of any significance either internally or externally for merged teams. You couldn't say that there is. Its a non-topic and doesn't address any concerns, because the concerns don't exist to begin with.
Apologies if I seem critical after all its free forum......but the OP was about world rankings, that was all.......and as is your wont, you do what you often do - went off-topic and started meandering on about Norn Iron again
However, there is no originating problem here
. As I pointed out there is no interest of any significance either internally or externally for merged teams. You couldn't say that there is. Its a non-topic and doesn't address any concerns, because the concerns don't exist to begin with.Apologies if I seem critical after all its free forum......but the OP was about world rankings, that was all.......and as is your wont, you do what you often do - went off-topic and started meandering on about Norn Iron again
Well Wallflower , everythings obviously fine in your world . Crap world rankings /performances in a sport where between us ( sorry to mention the North again , mea culpa , mea culpa , mea culpa ) we used to hold our heads up pretty high .
Have to disagree that there is no problem , there is a problem , but for some people it is too large a nettle to grasp , just like the political one .
Every portion of my original post is geared to help solving the problem , and any facts I posted are germaine to the topic . Blanket denial such as you come up with is of no help , and in fact just heightens the difficulty in addressing it . Smacks of "No surrender " , the bane of our lives , and if you think that those living in the south can divorce themselves from the reality of a split island ( in political terms at least ) then the next hundred years is also going to be an uphill struggle . 2016 we are both going to have to thole . Like it or lump it , and it hasnt exactly worked out sweetness and light this last 100 years .
A joined up team , along with joined up leagues / structures , and a joined up approach would invigorate soccer both south and north . I am long enough in the tooth to remember regular crowds of 30 and 40 thousand at league matches in the North . Indicative of the interest and the product that was available then . Soccer in the North died in 1950 , courtesy of sectarianism , and it will not recover until that blot is erased or modified . At that time I regularly attended club rugby matches every Saturday in Ravenhill ( despite being a GAA person , but that was all right because our parish priest was 20 yards away on the terraces in Ravenhill , that was our imprimatur ). A thousand was a good attendance then , now Ravenhill is sold out every match albeit a different format . So one sport has gone forward bigtime , with steady and worthy rankings , and another has gone backwards . The difference lies partly in the way things are organised , the rugby people have become very sensible , the soccer people still have their heads stuck firmly up their jacksies and the sport is going nowhere .
Sorry if Northern Ireland is a stone in your shoe , Wallflower ( there go those cliches again --maybe we should just go away --but we wont you know ). You are stuck with us , umbilically attached , is it not better to seek solutions than just shrug your shoulders ? Ask not what your country can do for you , rather ask what you can do for your country . Thats my mantra . At least to try .
Have to disagree that there is no problem , there is a problem , but for some people it is too large a nettle to grasp , just like the political one .
Every portion of my original post is geared to help solving the problem , and any facts I posted are germaine to the topic . Blanket denial such as you come up with is of no help , and in fact just heightens the difficulty in addressing it . Smacks of "No surrender " , the bane of our lives , and if you think that those living in the south can divorce themselves from the reality of a split island ( in political terms at least ) then the next hundred years is also going to be an uphill struggle . 2016 we are both going to have to thole . Like it or lump it , and it hasnt exactly worked out sweetness and light this last 100 years .
A joined up team , along with joined up leagues / structures , and a joined up approach would invigorate soccer both south and north . I am long enough in the tooth to remember regular crowds of 30 and 40 thousand at league matches in the North . Indicative of the interest and the product that was available then . Soccer in the North died in 1950 , courtesy of sectarianism , and it will not recover until that blot is erased or modified . At that time I regularly attended club rugby matches every Saturday in Ravenhill ( despite being a GAA person , but that was all right because our parish priest was 20 yards away on the terraces in Ravenhill , that was our imprimatur ). A thousand was a good attendance then , now Ravenhill is sold out every match albeit a different format . So one sport has gone forward bigtime , with steady and worthy rankings , and another has gone backwards . The difference lies partly in the way things are organised , the rugby people have become very sensible , the soccer people still have their heads stuck firmly up their jacksies and the sport is going nowhere .
Sorry if Northern Ireland is a stone in your shoe , Wallflower ( there go those cliches again --maybe we should just go away --but we wont you know ). You are stuck with us , umbilically attached , is it not better to seek solutions than just shrug your shoulders ? Ask not what your country can do for you , rather ask what you can do for your country . Thats my mantra . At least to try .
FFS Kelly...
Its only about world football rankings (irrelevant to practically every fan in the world) - get a grip....a trivial subject really.
If you want to tie it into the political situation on this island....go ahead and knock yourself out (even though its beyond ridiculous), but I'd suggest another thread, forum, or site even.
And by the way, while I'm at it........statements such as....."and if you think that those living in the south can divorce themselves from the reality of a split island ( in political terms at least ) then the next hundred years is also going to be an uphill struggle"...imply that I have somewhere or somehow have made any political view known. I have not. So I'd thank you to refrain from making assumptions about my political views of which you no idea whatsoever, and I mean this, no idea. If I choose to express them , they'll be in an appropriate forum.....not in this one.
Its only about world football rankings (irrelevant to practically every fan in the world) - get a grip....a trivial subject really.
If you want to tie it into the political situation on this island....go ahead and knock yourself out (even though its beyond ridiculous), but I'd suggest another thread, forum, or site even.
And by the way, while I'm at it........statements such as....."and if you think that those living in the south can divorce themselves from the reality of a split island ( in political terms at least ) then the next hundred years is also going to be an uphill struggle"...imply that I have somewhere or somehow have made any political view known. I have not. So I'd thank you to refrain from making assumptions about my political views of which you no idea whatsoever, and I mean this, no idea. If I choose to express them , they'll be in an appropriate forum.....not in this one.
Wallflower , I challenge you to read my original post and identify anything which is off topic or about Norn Iron .
My post was specifically about soccer arrangements and performances north and south , there was absolutely nothing political about it . But you chose to identify my post as being about Norn Iron ( your words ) , which it was not . You obviously have some issue with Norn Iron as you introduced it into your post , hence my 16.56 post , and your comments clearly identify to me that you DO have some issue with Norn Iron , otherwise why re-introduce it ?
Fact is , soccer south and north is not in good shape , poor attendances , poor performance domestically and internationally , bailouts . Shrug your shoulders and say there is no interest in changing or looking at the status quo , a case of Nero and a fiddle ? Closed minds never learn anything .
World soccer rankings may be irrelevant to you , wallflower , but we as a country ( joined up ) are benefitting daily from world rankings in other sports where we do well , people do take note of rankings and sometimes it influences behaviour . I would sooner be 25th than 40th .
My post was specifically about soccer arrangements and performances north and south , there was absolutely nothing political about it . But you chose to identify my post as being about Norn Iron ( your words ) , which it was not . You obviously have some issue with Norn Iron as you introduced it into your post , hence my 16.56 post , and your comments clearly identify to me that you DO have some issue with Norn Iron , otherwise why re-introduce it ?
Fact is , soccer south and north is not in good shape , poor attendances , poor performance domestically and internationally , bailouts . Shrug your shoulders and say there is no interest in changing or looking at the status quo , a case of Nero and a fiddle ? Closed minds never learn anything .
World soccer rankings may be irrelevant to you , wallflower , but we as a country ( joined up ) are benefitting daily from world rankings in other sports where we do well , people do take note of rankings and sometimes it influences behaviour . I would sooner be 25th than 40th .
"Wallflower , I challenge you to read my original post and identify anything which is off topic or about Norn Iron ".
Obviously, that won't be too hard, I will (might) when I have more time - its littered with it
More importantly, you miss my general point - nobody cares about world rankings, nobody is interested in amalgamation of Ireland / Northern Ireland,,, as for Team GB concept complete and utter non-runner - again no interest, no problem to begin with. World Rankings don't cause problems
! Not having a team to identify with would be a far bigger problem for them - can you not see that?
You might be interested in amalgamations but I'd say 99% of the soccer public aren't.....to suggest its "too large a nettle to grasp", or "heads up their jacksies" etc because they don't care and are not interested is the height of arrogance of your behalf. The reason being you're taking a stance implying that you can see a bigger picture of sorts - does it not occur to you that most of these fans can see all the negatives such amalgamations would cause and see the pointlessness of it. Most have probably thought it through more than you have, its not that they are not grasping the issue. Whatever about an "Irish" team, I'd give up completely on the "British" team, didn't really even get one for the Olympics!
By the way 42nd is probably near the top 25% or so, so for a country of 4.5 MILLION where its not even the No.1 sport, isn't all that bad., not that it matters anyway.
Happy Christmas
Obviously, that won't be too hard, I will (might) when I have more time - its littered with itMore importantly, you miss my general point - nobody cares about world rankings, nobody is interested in amalgamation of Ireland / Northern Ireland,,, as for Team GB concept complete and utter non-runner - again no interest, no problem to begin with. World Rankings don't cause problems
! Not having a team to identify with would be a far bigger problem for them - can you not see that?You might be interested in amalgamations but I'd say 99% of the soccer public aren't.....to suggest its "too large a nettle to grasp", or "heads up their jacksies" etc because they don't care and are not interested is the height of arrogance of your behalf. The reason being you're taking a stance implying that you can see a bigger picture of sorts - does it not occur to you that most of these fans can see all the negatives such amalgamations would cause and see the pointlessness of it. Most have probably thought it through more than you have, its not that they are not grasping the issue. Whatever about an "Irish" team, I'd give up completely on the "British" team, didn't really even get one for the Olympics!
By the way 42nd is probably near the top 25% or so, so for a country of 4.5 MILLION where its not even the No.1 sport, isn't all that bad.
, not that it matters anyway.Happy Christmas
Wallflower , the model is already there . Reference the rugby scene . If the rugby clubs in Ireland solely consisted of Old Wesley , Terenure , Malone , Collegians , Galwegians , Garryowen , Shannon etc do you think we would have 3 or 4 world class South Africans / New Zealanders , Australians gracing most of our provincial teams . And we learn from them .
At one stage in Ireland our rugby international team set up was run by people not dissimilar to those who currently occupy the seats in the soccer scene . One of my mates son in law captained Ireland rugby back then , he used to have to ring his mother in law ( who had RTE ) to find out if he was on the team ( teletext ) . But they have got their act together and are a model which a lot of other people in the rugby world envy . But if they had said nobody was interested very little would have happened . Thankfully they got their act sorted out , and have a completley logical set up . If that is beyond the ken of the soccer people , so be it . Wont cause me any sleepless nights , and most of my friends are quite happy to observe the morass that is soccer here particularly . When you are heading blindly up a no way street its time to explore alternatives . Otherwise you die . Thats the point . Application of logic .
5 years ago if you had told the population of Ireland that house prices would be down to 40% of their then value in 2012 , 99% plus of the population would have told you to go and get a grip of yourself . Statistics mean very little unless based on authenticated results , and I dont believe your 99% assertions for one minute , we are not that stupid as a populace , even the soccer ones .
At one stage in Ireland our rugby international team set up was run by people not dissimilar to those who currently occupy the seats in the soccer scene . One of my mates son in law captained Ireland rugby back then , he used to have to ring his mother in law ( who had RTE ) to find out if he was on the team ( teletext ) . But they have got their act together and are a model which a lot of other people in the rugby world envy . But if they had said nobody was interested very little would have happened . Thankfully they got their act sorted out , and have a completley logical set up . If that is beyond the ken of the soccer people , so be it . Wont cause me any sleepless nights , and most of my friends are quite happy to observe the morass that is soccer here particularly . When you are heading blindly up a no way street its time to explore alternatives . Otherwise you die . Thats the point . Application of logic .
5 years ago if you had told the population of Ireland that house prices would be down to 40% of their then value in 2012 , 99% plus of the population would have told you to go and get a grip of yourself . Statistics mean very little unless based on authenticated results , and I dont believe your 99% assertions for one minute , we are not that stupid as a populace , even the soccer ones .
Kelly,
Hopefully you've given up on your Team GB thing? Good, if you have.....and you're now concentrating on a "all-Ireland" soccer team, so fair enough.
Now - can you address my main points properly?
Firstly, NOBODY IS INTERESTED!!!! I said 99%, but perhaps that's an exaggeration it could be as low as 90%, still counts as nobody in my book. As a percentage how many on this island do you think are interested in an "All-Ireland" soccer team, I'm curious?
Secondly, I'm trying to listen respectfully but its difficult if you keep using spurious analogies and deliberately missing the completeness of their context. Rugby is not a valid comparison because there was a change in European rugby structures to begin with, and besides Ireland is one sporting nation in rugby as in hockey and boxing. Soccer is not. This is the fundamental point, whether it should or shouldn't be is actually completely irrelevant. The fact is that it is and has close to 100 years of history behind it.
Thirdly, your "application of logic" is spurious and irrelevant. Its not about winning, its about identity. If Ireland was one political entity then there may be some chance but until it is - there will be 2 international teams on this island. It seems to me you are uncomfortable addressing this reality; it may have been different in 1922 if one team was formed; but there were two.....and that's who people identify with......that's what has to be dealt with, analogies with rugby or anything else, don't matter a jot.
To summarise - this isn't going to change for (a) political reasons (b) lack of interest (c) identity. Why don't you address these - the REAL issues involved? Everything else is spurious.
By the way.......house prices?? Ah, never mind.........
Hopefully you've given up on your Team GB thing? Good, if you have.....and you're now concentrating on a "all-Ireland" soccer team, so fair enough.
Now - can you address my main points properly?
Firstly, NOBODY IS INTERESTED!!!! I said 99%, but perhaps that's an exaggeration it could be as low as 90%
, still counts as nobody in my book. As a percentage how many on this island do you think are interested in an "All-Ireland" soccer team, I'm curious?Secondly, I'm trying to listen respectfully but its difficult if you keep using spurious analogies and deliberately missing the completeness of their context. Rugby is not a valid comparison because there was a change in European rugby structures to begin with, and besides Ireland is one sporting nation in rugby as in hockey and boxing. Soccer is not. This is the fundamental point, whether it should or shouldn't be is actually completely irrelevant. The fact is that it is and has close to 100 years of history behind it.
Thirdly, your "application of logic" is spurious and irrelevant. Its not about winning, its about identity. If Ireland was one political entity then there may be some chance but until it is - there will be 2 international teams on this island. It seems to me you are uncomfortable addressing this reality; it may have been different in 1922 if one team was formed; but there were two.....and that's who people identify with......that's what has to be dealt with, analogies with rugby or anything else, don't matter a jot.
To summarise - this isn't going to change for (a) political reasons (b) lack of interest (c) identity. Why don't you address these - the REAL issues involved? Everything else is spurious.
By the way.......house prices?? Ah, never mind.........
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