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wildmanfromborneo
27 Nov 12 20:08
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Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
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No thoughts on the form but again one of Willie Mullins ones that were withdrawn from the Fairyhouse bumper getting a run without a Noel Meade opponent.

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Replies: 25
By:
trooper thornton
When: 28 Nov 12 10:57
Keen Leader type of race anyone any thoughts on the 2nd fav
By:
JayTrumpOldTomDubbl
When: 28 Nov 12 11:02
2nd fav. a decent p2p'r, and well thought of, they nearly always bet the fancied one's from their stable..........
By:
pa lapsy
When: 28 Nov 12 11:20
He won his points by 2l and 6l,seems better point form than the rest(no expert on these btw).Mullins is quoted on his site as saying Sunteip as a "nice type who should handle the testing conditions".
Suppose Captain Canada shouldn,t mind the trip or ground either and on the little available it would be hard to see him unplacded,3/1 with pp can see where you are coming from TT,swerve the race myself probably. GL.
By:
trooper thornton
When: 28 Nov 12 11:34
Yea inclined to agree Pa but just interested on thoughts before i cross the race out
By:
pa lapsy
When: 28 Nov 12 11:45
Bit of a minus maybe t,was Feb. since his last point run.Trying to decipher Willies comments is guesswork at best,struck by the emphatic use of the word "will" he used in regards handling the testing conditions.
By:
RoyalAcademy
When: 28 Nov 12 11:50
The O'Brien horse has a pedigree for gruelling staying chases. Sire has had a few NH winners and the likes of Tammys Hill would be one of the best. Heavy ground should also be against him altho' he seemed to handle it well so far.

On stats he wouldn't be a 9/4 shot altho' I was recently against Road To Riches in his bumper on the basis that his sire, Gamut, seemed to be very disappointing at the time.
By:
Distant View
When: 28 Nov 12 12:05
A few bits on Captain Canada below.

I am not crazy about the sire myself but maybe he is very much underused rather than moderate.

I never thought a son of Gone West would be siring strong staying pointers on heavy ground.

Strengths

Good Point To Point Form

Of those that have run, Captain Canada looks to have by far the best form, courtesy of his exploits in the pointing field. Having shown promise on his first 2 starts in maidens won by Minella Forfitness and Kilcrea in the 2010/11 season, Captain Canada returned to the track when pulled up in a very strong maiden at Boulta, where he may have needed the run. Next time out, he was in front and travelling well when turning upside down at 3 out at Leadington, in a race won by Green Flag, who has since won a bumper and hurdle for Lucinda Russell.

At Killeagh, Captain Canada made no mistake, leading from the outset and scoring a fairly comfortable 2 length victory in a good time. Once again, on his last start in a point to point, he made all in a Winner Of One at Askeaton, powering clear from 2 out once asked for his effort by Pat Collins. After the race, trainer Terence O’Brien remarked that he thinks a lot of this horse, and with the efforts shown last season that is no surprise.
The form he has shown, and the potential for improvement, suggests he should have little trouble in beating those that have already run, with the 2 newcomers being the potential threats.

Front Running Strong Stayer

Captain Canada will hold an advantage over his rivals if connections choose to use the same tactics as they did in point to points. With many bumpers run at a slow early pace, particularly those on soft or heavy ground, there is the chance for a front runner to gain an advantage, either by setting the pace to suit itself or by ‘stealing’ an advantage of many lengths despite going a sensible gallop, or both.

Pat Collins knows that Captain Canada stays well, and he can turn this into a stamina test over the 2m3f. If no opponent wishes to join him in front, there is a chance for him to gain a few lengths at the start, and gradually extend that advantage whilst still maintaining a sensible gallop.

We have already seen this month, courtesy of Jane Mangan’s ride on Posiden Sea, the benefits of taking advantage of a very slow early pace by kicking on, and it is hoped that Pat Collins will do similar here. Having to chase down a strong stayer on soft to heavy ground could get his opponents out of their comfort zones at an early stage, and it could put any greenness issues for the newcomers under scrutiny.

Weaknesses

290 Day Break
Captain Canada’s worst run of his 6 in point to points came after a 6½ month break on soft to heavy ground, so there is a chance that a break of 290 days since his last run could be a negative here. Any slight issues on fitness are likely to be magnified on testing ground, so there is a chance that he could perform below his previous form today.

However, the Boulta maiden in which he was pulled up was run at a very strong pace throughout, so this would have put maximum pressure on his fitness. In today’s race, it is likely that Captain Canada will be making the running without too much hassle, and Pat Collins can set a pace to suit himself. As he will know how fit Captain Canada is, it is possible that he can set the pace to take away any potential fitness doubts.

Opportunities

Willie Mullins Factor

A Willie Mullins trained newcomer will automatically attract plenty of attention. This can cause horses with good form to be overpriced due to the general expectation that the Mullins trained horse will have plenty of ability, and this isn’t always the case. It is hoped that this will cause Captain Canada’s chance to be underestimated

Threats

Suntiep

Clearly anything that Willie Mullins runs has to be respected, particularly in a bumper, and Suntiep looks the biggest threat to Captain Canada. Willie expects the son of Ungaro to be able to handle the testing conditions. It is noticeable though that although some of Ungaro’s progeny handle soft ground, many have been at their best on quicker ground.

It is also interesting to note that the horse is making its debut as a 6yo, which suggests he is either a late maturing type or has had some problems. While he could be very good, his late debut on the track and the unknown over conditions make him opposable at a short price.

Another Rebel

Another Rebel is the other newcomer in the field, and is trained by Michael Winters, who has am 18% strike rate in bumpers in the last 5 seasons. His sire, Croco Rouge, has a 28% strike rate with national hunt horses, and there is a chance that this €5,000 purchase could improve that here. Another whose talent is unknown, he presents a potential threat to Captain Canada.
By:
keen leader
When: 28 Nov 12 12:35
at lunchtime yesterday i placed a tasty e/w trixie, with de la bech at 9/2, along with 2 today, captain canada and one in the uk. i was hoping for 7/2 captain canada as i am stuck with sp, looks like 2/1 to 5/2 will be my lot.

no doubt he is the best horse in the race, if i wanted to find out, a quick phonecall would tell me if he is fancied or fit, i am willing to take my chance. he was considered the best young horse in the yard when 4 and was punted in his 2 spring runs, came up short, could have been weak. his 2 wins at the start of this year were commanding, in terms of strength of form, his all the way win at killeagh was impressive, at least 3 in behind are track winners including the one that landed the ascot bumper on saturday. trip and ground are not an issue.

willies could be anything, a near 7 year old debuting now says he has had injuries and that would be a major negative to me. as for the rest, i would not worry about the newcomers. willie neville was seen punting sharks horse at a point, he may be involved in it or was doing a job that day, in any case the horse came up short at cregg and i would say is a million to win a bumper. faheys on the basis of a 4th here in another bumper could come close to hitting the frame at a double digit price.

summary, if fit, captain canada will be a tough one to crack, suntiep needs to be up to graded standard to beat him.
By:
trooper thornton
When: 28 Nov 12 13:51
Money come for it now
By:
tyronesam
When: 28 Nov 12 14:13
good luck with the bet leader...let us know if the other one comes in for you
By:
punchestown
When: 28 Nov 12 14:28
Italaian Chorus pulled up injured there,the fourth consecutive hot fav undone.
By:
Catch Me ifyoucan
When: 28 Nov 12 16:41
Italian Chorus....Did she survive ?
By:
Catch Me ifyoucan
When: 28 Nov 12 16:44
Assume she, along with Tempo Du Camp, won't be going back to their yards this evening.
By:
kavvie
When: 28 Nov 12 17:04
hard game..
By:
keen leader
When: 28 Nov 12 17:22
not a good result ffor some, all told a meeting to treat with caution regarding form into the future. well done if you stuck with the wpm horse. tyrone, i am left drawing to tony clarks horse in the maiden at kempton.
By:
kavvie
When: 28 Nov 12 17:29
which one keen?
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 28 Nov 12 21:49
You may aswell be backing the virtual stuff as punting on the inside track in Limerick. Has been the same since the track opened.
By:
RoyalAcademy
When: 28 Nov 12 22:54
duck, i think you'll find a lot of very cogent reasoning went into this race before the race.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 28 Nov 12 23:10
A lot of favourites were beaten today but it had nothing to do with the inside track,Sarabad is just no good and two favourites were destroyed,the only one who ran a drain was Last Time DAlbain.Nothing wrong with that track today or any other day.
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 28 Nov 12 23:12
I agree RA. Distant View's offering was quite incisive and even if some of the points didn't bear out in the race itself there were morsels worth chewing over with a view to future race assessments. I would say that Captain Canada will show the run wrong in time though the best of him won't be seen until he tackles fences.

It will be interesting to see how many of these older bumper horses Willie has this year. He had a good few 7yo's last year that were originally bought by boom-fueled syndicates several years earlier. The likes of Pride ofthe Parish must be on their second or third owner by now.
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 28 Nov 12 23:15
Wildman have you ever walked that inside track? There are holes the size of potholes in it and they just roll it after every schooling meeting. Hardly a meeting goes by without a horse breaking a leg on that track and many more legs are on fire when they come down off the horsebox that evening.
By:
pa lapsy
When: 28 Nov 12 23:15
Beat before the straight and ended up last,obviously for whatever reason underperformed.Mullins one made hard work to just get up. Line of thought beforehand i think was still correct,just ran a stinker.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 28 Nov 12 23:25
I value your posts Allduckornodinner but find that hard to believe sure you wouldn't get runners if that was the case.
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 28 Nov 12 23:32
I'll leave you make up your own mind but in my view it's a joke of a track. The ground there is desperately chewed up at this stage of the year. I wouldn't run one there unless I was looking for the insurance money.

You will get runners where you have racing. It's always been the same. Why do you think Tramore and Kilbeggan get runners? Both are horrible and bordering on dangerous circuits at times but trainers still send horses into action. It's either run them or leave them eat nuts in their stables.
By:
lapsy pa
When: 23 Dec 12 14:49
Hope some on here kept the faith with Captain Canada,yours thoughts were vindicated and his inital run was all wrong.
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