Dawn Approach Overrated.

Strikes me as the type to keep battling on ala his sire,let's see if he trains on before getting serious about the superlatives though I would love to see James Pyman proved wrong.

Couldn,t agree he has no chance in the dewhurst,seemed better over 7f lto after a lay off,looking at entries(maybe not up to date) Aidan had 29 including Mars,The United States, Threatre,Christofer Columbo,probably better than the English horses through the Coventry,exceptions maybe Hannons Tornado.Seems its between him and one of Aidans talking horses to me.

You are right Pa Lapsy,saying he has no chance is an exaggeration but still think he is a lay and a large lay at Newmarket.

didnt look like the pack were catching him up last race!

i,ll back him for the dewhurst..(he.ll win it well imo) were i carnt argue is if he,ll train on?..i see no reason for him not too?..but i think your not giving the horse enough respect imo..i havent seen a 2yr old to trouble him over here..mabe hannons as pa has said will give him a race?

How can you tell if there is improvement in a horse from 2 to 3 or not?

what i think wildman is saying ozy is ,dawn app is more a 3yo than a 2yo ..i.e. bigger more forward than the other 2yos...maybe he wont grow much over the winter allowing the others to catch up , therefore losing the advantage he has this year ...some 2yo are very weak and take time to grow into their frames ..everything points to d.a. having come to hand very early indeed , seeing as he won the first 2yo race this year ...hth....

Yes, thanks, that makes sense.  A Wayne Rooney type...hasn't improved since he was 16.

Wildman -I laid him heavily last week and paid the price.I have no intention of trying to get the money back in the Dewhurst,

At the moment you are looking to lay him at best at 6/1(ie backing him at 1/6 for the guineas) or 16/1 for the derby is it really worth taking a chance he doesn,t train on at such short odds?
Botti,s Moohaajim i thought was impressive at Newbury yesterday,while a strict line through Master of War leaves him with a bit to find with Dawn Approach he may be a likely outsider to consider ew come the Dewhurst.

what a genius u r wildbore/dark rosaleen

Kept with Bolger for next year, every chance he will be win a classic now

That could change over the winter ruby, the Sheikh wasn't all that convincing when asked.

Well if he takes him off Bolger he is a bigger imbecile than i already believe.

I don't disagree, it was just the way the sheikh said it, suggesting they haven't really put serious thought into who'll be training it next year.
Godolphin can train classic winners but their methods are probably more refined than Bolgers, take the Dewhurst r/up Leitir Mor it was amazingly for a 2yr old having his 12th start of the season.

Personally i don't think Godolphin can train at all....there results in England prove how inept there operation is.

Bolger is like a fine wine to Godolphin and there Tesco brand. I would love the Sheikh to give him a bunch of horses but I guess he thinks his nursery yard for his future stallion in Bolger is going good so far. His faith in his arab countrymen is illfounded and made him a laughing stock behind closed doors. Billions spent and so little success.

I think the feud they had with Coolmore by refusing to buy into their stallions put them back years than actual ability to train?, it allowed Coolmore to get a bigger stranglehold than they already had at the same time weakening their own hand.
Ok they can't match Galileo but maybe first season sire New Approach, Dawn Approaches sire might level the playing field a little, its early days but the signs are more than promising.

I hope Eddie Batt stuck to his guns and didn't listen to me,I was lucky not to get involved til today and laid him for 2800 & 1.38 so it could have been worse.I am not despondent as I feel I will get it back,I thought he beat nothing today,the second favourite ran no race George Vancouver dodnt handle the ground,two of the others were second strings and the final horse was a rag.
I have studied this horse from the start and I consider him a tough precocious two year old but one who won't train on,what I saw today reaffirms that opinion.
Thanks to Lapsy Pa and Tony57 for putting the brakes on me and make me just take my time and stop the usual headlong gallop.

Good Wildman,in the end went off 1/3 so was expected to win even though looked a bit in trouble 2 out but found a good burst racing in the unfavoured centre of the course.noticeable Aiden didn,t race any of his unexposed types against him and seemed to concede Cristofo Columbo wasn,t going to beat him and avoided him by running in the Middleham.
Think the performance still has him as quite easily the best 2 y old this season,Bolger to keep training him for the foreseeable future augurs well for his chances in the 2000g.Maybe the time to lay him if you were still inclined would be after his prep run in the spring.

The last stallion Goldolphin produced that they have stood under there own banner is Sharamdal more than a decade ago. And he was shipped in from Mark Johnston.

Sheikh Mo loves his racing but loves breeding too and that is just a shocking return on investment

If that the best he has,its bad alright Ruby,maybe a new dawn with this fellow,don,t know his relationship with Abdulla but with him and Frankel could be a big shift away from Coolmore not too long down the line.

Yeah but they should never be in this position tbh Lapsy.

Completely out thought by a farmer son's from Cork have the the Dubai operation. Even worse is that Magnier has limited resources unlike themselves.

ive said this since the start of the season,He'll be no use at 3 imo,There's no improvement in him

Wild man-I laid him for a place at 1/10-at the time when he was starting to look like he was struggling and odds against flashed up on betfair a heavy shower hit here and the telly went off for 10 seconds.
It was a losing bet but in the context of the day no damage done.

Ruby, Cape Cross needs no 2nd introduction, STS & Ouija Board to name just 2, wasn't the middle park r/up a Cape Cross animal he's a damn decent sire and he's versatile and I'm no expert on bloodlines. Exceed and Excel might be more speed orientated but he's doing pretty well in that dept, the days when I look forward to the next (Irish) bloodline and the Ballydoyle (proud to be Irish) superstar has long dissipated.

Been a son of the nearby Curragh, Vincent never took the piss, when they came up from Tipp Vincent always had them nearly fit to go (well put it this way they won at prohibitive odds, why? because if their was work on them he left very little to chance), on the Curragh you bowed to the King of Ballydoye, Vincent always had a great respect for the Curragh racecourse, the facilities might not be all that great (Turf Club get your finger out) but as a racecourse there is not one on earth that can give a truer test, Epsom? why bother horrible track, Longchamp? good track but too many turns, we, believe it or not have the best racecourse at our disposal, and the guy now at Ballydoyle continues to take the piss, and disrespect the Holy Grail, and I'm not proud, in fact I'm pretty pissed off and I'm not drunk either!, Vincent would turn in his grave to see the sacred cow the Curragh turned into nothing but a training ground? by the people who have inherited his legacy.

Sorry Vincent but world domination has turned the once mecca like Ballydoyle into!, personally I don't really care anymore, thats how bad they've disrespected the greatest training establishment ever created.

silvergreaser , cant agree re epsom ...i was really impressed by it , if you evr get a chance , take a walk down to the start , watch them climb that hill , then race back across to near the finish line ....if i could do it , you certainly could , a really powerful test of a racehorse ....i also think the curragh is a smashing track ...but epsom ....simply magical....

Sorry Silver I am looking at that old rehashed argument

If you can stand there and defend the Arab Sheikh Mo who runs the most inept racing operation in the world then you clearly are living in a different world. He is a laughing stock a complete laughing stock. They spend near 30 million on yearling every year what success have they had this year??.. Encke a pathetic truly pathetic return. Won't even stand at Darley. You again completely miss the point, Cape Cross retired to stud in 1999 when Godolphin were doing well but look at them the last decade they are a shambles. He run his country into the ground by his ignorance subjected to them being sued by 10 billion by the banks for there losses from the dubai investment arm. People starving in his own country where he is a dictator and spent near 8 million on yearling at newmarket this week. A joke!!! a complete joke.

there, just incase!, and when I say son of I was not Vincent, he was I know a Cork man originally.

ruby , i think you are way off re sheikh mohammond , a true gent and a fine statesman ..this man has brought his country into the 21st century  , his foresight is remarkable to say the least , realizing his country would run out of oil in the near future he turned what to all intents and purposes was a backwater , into a vibrant holidays attraction ....if only this country had men like him....

Workrider, I've never been to Epsom, Cheltenham 3 times Newmarket twice and Goodwood once they were my sojourns when I loved horse racing, still do but in a more subdued mode, but going by tv pictures it seems like a total mish mash of a racecourse, it has they say the true test of a racehorse, but why would a true test have a camber running down the middle?, many a good horse won at Epsom but to say they handled the track might be a little too simplistic, maybe they were the best horse anyway and class bailed them out.

Give me the Curragh anyday, and **** man why did they get rid of the Standhouse Hotel, it made a day at the races ffs, Derby day is but a pale shadow.

Ruby we can all pick at straws, John Magnier is one of Irelands greatest tax exemptions and exiles, oh but he employs people, for what?, his benifet I presume?.

silvergreaser , as they say dont knock it till you've tried it ....make a point of heading over sometime next season ,do as i suggested , then come back and tell me what you think...

I agree re the Standhouse Hotel!!!! shocking just shocking what they did to the place

John Magnier exempted tax legally because he does not live in Ireland. Completely legal

Since 2000, international equestrian athletes affiliated with UNICEF have worked to end the "scourge of modern slavery in mounted sports,"[16] by putting public and diplomatic pressure on Sheikh Mohammed and the UAE government. In 2005, a UNICEF-sponsored programme with the UAE government resulted in the repatriation of hundreds of children formerly enslaved as camel jockeys, and provided them with social services and compensation upon return to their home countries of Pakistan, Sudan, Mauritania, and Bangladesh. The UAE government set aside $US2.7 million in initial funding in 2005 with an additional $US9 million for the second phase, and to enforce compliance, adopted a law officially banning the practice with penalties of jail time and a $US27,200 fine.[17] UNICEF endorsed the UAE’s efforts and expressed the hopes that “the UAE’s programme will serve as a model to other countries in the region, as a means of ending all forms of exploitation of children”.[18]
In September 2006, Sheikh Mohammed was accused of encouraging the abduction and enslavement of thousands of boys for use as jockeys in camel races. A class-action suit was filed against him in the state of Florida.[19][20][21][22] However, in 2006, American lawyers representing the UAE raised a motion to dismiss the lawsuit, not on its substance but on the grounds that none of the involved parties resided in the U.S. In July 2007, judge Cecilia Altonaga accepted the motion and dismissed the suit.

Yeah a fine statesman he is, abudcted children for his own pleasure to ride his camels. Lets not mention all the human rights abuses and the thousands of people who have died constructing his sites. All the people. Read this http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html


Get real this guy is dicatator pure and simple, he is no stalin or Hitler or Pol Pot not in the same league to these fellows but no more so that North Korea or the other guys from the GULG, Saudi Arabia and the Abudallahs from Jordan. These people are nasty pieces of work yet the racing press fall around praising them.

DONT BITE THE FACE THAT FEEDS YOU I GUESS

PATHETIC

Went to the Derby at Epsom a few years ago(Sea the Stars) and I too was impressed by the place. Its a much better track than I had envisaged from TV pictures

Workrider........you are a wee bit off the money painting Sheikh Mo out to be a mother Theresa type character.
I think our country has had enough crazy spenders for a while........did he not spend $24 million dollars at keeneland a few weeks after getting a $40 billion bail out from his arab neighbours.

ruby i've never gained anything from him ..apart from backing a few of his winners that is..for you to come out and say such things about him is truly shocking ...i've just read that piece from the independent ..if you take the time to read it again you'll find that very little has to do with him....for a start the canadian woman describes her life when she first got there as been wonderful ...to quote her ..we partyied all the time ...then her husband made financial mistakes and got into money trouble ...what has this to do with him....everyone makes financial mistakes ...when she and her husband were living the high life she never complained...they took away his passport , simply as the law says there , if you owe money you must pay it back ..pity ireland doesn't have those laws ..the bankers would all be locked up now...the construction companys hired those workers not the prince , if you read it again ..it was the people who brought them to dubui who conned them not the prince...they also stated it was an offence to owe money in their country resulting in been sent to prison...finally i dont agree with young children been forced to do anything ....

what about abducting thousands of children.

Give me a break this guy is nothing more than a playboy. Gaddafi in a suit

Everything in dubai is controlled by him and his mob.

Look at the race course, he has around 20 guys who would not look at out place in something from a mob film in the Hollywood. A man of the people my arse he can barely walk 1 foot anywhere without his goons. Just look at the case of Alexandre Robert. Dubai goverment even refused to accept they they engage in slave labour.

I again say this man is nothing more or nothing less than an arab dicatotor. Nothing different from Gaddafi or Mubarak. Wealth of 42 billion dollars robbed from his own countrymen and women for his own personal use.

islam should be eradicated, people think from a effing I don't how many years book, 1500 years?, when people can't think for themselves something seriously wrong with society, rid the world of religion and **** man the world will be a so much better place, even the IRA would lose their will.

Exactly, religion of all kinds is daft.

Mind you Buddhism does have huge benefits to the human body

the buddist religion summed up in 4 words.........
no me....no problem.....

€2800?,u don't see many naming their profit/loss on internet forums??Best of luck getting that back on laying him for the guineas.I don't think ur stating anything that is not already priced in or is obvious to most that he has been trained hard and early and therefore it is likely that we have already seen the best of him.

Jim Bolger to train Dawn Approach for 2013 Qipco 2,000 Guineas

Sheikh Mohammed looked a little surprised by the question, but his answer put to bed an item of important unfinished business long before the approach of winter.

By HOTSPUR (A J McGrath)
14 Oct 2012 TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

Yes, Dawn Approach is to remain in the stable of Jim Bolger to be trained for next year’s Qipco 2,000 Guineas. There will be no transfer with this colt.

It is not unknown for Godolphin to employ outside trainers, but it is more common practice for new purchases to be moved to the stable of either Mahmood Al Zarooni or Saeed bin Suroor, and then end up in Dubai for several months before being shipped back to Europe.

Sheikh Mohammed, Dubai’s ruler, is a hands-on owner who loves to have his best horses close by. He would prefer be able to see them every day than be fielding phone calls from a manager or trainer 3,000 miles away.

But Dawn Approach is different. Unbeaten now in six starts after his emphatic Dewhurst Stakes victory on Saturday, the colt has become such a valuable potential stallion that it makes sound commercial sense to leave him in an environment in which he has developed and thrived.

Bolger trained New Approach to win the Derby and Champion Stakes for Princess Haya of Jordan after Sheikh Mohammed had purchased the colt near the end of his two-year-old campaign. New Approach, a son of super stallion Galileo, is now poised to become champion first-season sire, with Dawn Approach being his chief contributor.

But Bolger’s record in turning out five recent winners of the Dewhurst – Teofilo, New Approach, Intense Focus and Parish Hall are the others – is proof enough that he should be entrusted with a young horse, who might just be capable of landing the first Classic of next season, for which he is 5-1 favourite. He lacks the gear-change of his sire, but there is no doubting his class, courage or ability.

The trainer has said he doubts whether Dawn Approach will stay a mile and a half at three, but in the back of his mind, he must harbour hopes that Trading Leather, the gritty winner of the Autumn Stakes on Saturday, can be a worthy Epsom contender. The colt is a top-priced 16-1 for the Derby.

The crowd at Newmarket, 9,514, was up 4.5 per cent on last year. Considering that the Champion Stakes has been transferred to Ascot, it is a respectable figure for a quality card

That is your eight attempt at provoking a spat,I will ignore the snide remarks but think your reply is classic after timing
My post was made before the Dewhurst,your reply is after.The horse is ante post favourite for both the Guineas and the Derby but others observed worrying things about his Dewhurst win,notably a lot of journalists so your assertion that everyone knew this is plain wrong and as I said classic after timing.

Ha,the journalists must have seen ur thread sure,no on else could envisage a 2 yo that romps up on the opening day of the flat season being over-trained.

No they saw the way he ran at Newmarket,funnily none of them like yourself ever mentioned that he might not train on before the Dewhurst.
I had a good look at him on the Curragh and felt he was trained for a sale and he won't train on and just posted my opinion,it irks you but you should try posting some opinions of your own.

Often post my own opinions pre race,but don't blow my own trumpet=ref.Camelot-st.leger thread posted a month b4 race.I also don't have the arrogance to believe that because a journalist shares the same opinion as me that they must be plagiarising  my thoughts.

As the journalist stated it himself it is hardly just a belief.
I was wrong on this thread as I advised a lay of Dawn Approach in the Dewhurst,I acknowledged that and thanked Lapsy Pa for his excellent advice.

I never gave an opinion on what the original thread was about as the horse still had to run in the Dewhurst, lets be honest it was a horrible Dewhurst so we've learned very little, Dawn is a decent 2yr old deceptive, but I wouldn't  go lumping on for the guineas.

Worst bunch of 2 year olds ive seen for quite some time

Great going Wildman, you're some judge

he was caught telling porkies on the last straw thread

As bad as this is, it's not as bad as dickies thread about Leitrim, but no getting away Wildman is clueless !

Out at Goodwood tomorrow so to bet or lay what's everyone think..........

Bet ...wins easy imo

Bet for me also, banker of the week........

First time ive backed it and lets me down for a treble!!

Great call wildman

only an idiot of the highest order would come up with thread like this, top 2yo of 2012