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spin.the all things to all men bullshte!lets be clear here,hes a jaffa,his loyality is to the union jack.nothing wrong with that but dont insult people's intelligence.this spin is all about his future earnings.
what a load of spoof codology written by Connor Ridge. Everyone knows at this stage where his allegions lie and no sensible person is that worried. Why pander to the extremists?
If diplomacy is all important to him he should just ignore the Olympics altogether. End of issue.
If diplomacy is all important to him he should just ignore the Olympics altogether. End of issue.
Rocketfingers contribution reaffirms his deep seated insecurities and childishness.
It is possible to be Irish and an Anglophile.
It is also possible to be a republican and an Anglophile.
We have so much in common with the British,they are our natural allies and rather than turn to Europe we should look closer to home.
It is possible to be Irish and an Anglophile.
It is also possible to be a republican and an Anglophile.
We have so much in common with the British,they are our natural allies and rather than turn to Europe we should look closer to home.
How on earth am i being childish, you have not a clue, i'll admit i look at things a little different but i feel this abilty has helped get ahead in betting, i believe it's called thinking outside the box.
Your post was infantile with schoolboy boasting of imaginary conquests,your latest post ends with a cliche straight out of the Ozymandius class.
In the example quoted, Rocket, I rather think that your thinking was IN the the box rather than out of it.
Your reference though is of course correct. Naturally many NI girls were more worldly and permissive, less constrained by Catholic guilt and teaching.
Your reference though is of course correct. Naturally many NI girls were more worldly and permissive, less constrained by Catholic guilt and teaching.
The great liberal who chides others in his own intolerant way is guilty of both racial stereotyping and smutty humour of the saucy postcard variety.Its not Ozymandius first time to introduce this childish smut,he managed to bring it up on the Katie Taylor so his defence of the even more infantile Rocketfingers is hardly surprising.
Hardly childish smut? More cultural and religous sexual anthroplogy.
Sex is natural and healthy, Borneo, you seem to be embarrassed by it and dismiss any mention of it as 'smut'. I conclude that you are a Prude, sir.
If I recall you married a woman in your teens and have been faithful ever since. Whilst I can understand you being a little old fashioned, limited and repressed in such matters, thankfully others have had more varied and interesting sex lives. Rocket used his experiences (if perhaps, a little crudely) as an example to highlight differences between women from the North and South. A perfectly valid contribution to the discussion at hand.
Sex is natural and healthy, Borneo, you seem to be embarrassed by it and dismiss any mention of it as 'smut'. I conclude that you are a Prude, sir.
If I recall you married a woman in your teens and have been faithful ever since. Whilst I can understand you being a little old fashioned, limited and repressed in such matters, thankfully others have had more varied and interesting sex lives. Rocket used his experiences (if perhaps, a little crudely) as an example to highlight differences between women from the North and South. A perfectly valid contribution to the discussion at hand.
Rocketfingers has had no experiences that's why he mentions imaginary blondes,fantasises over racing women in many of his posts,he is an insecure individual.
I maybe old fashioned but feel if you make a vow you should keep it.
I maybe old fashioned but feel if you make a vow you should keep it.
I wonder why he called himself 'Rocketfingers ' .. Is that what the girls called him back in the day, the old stud. NI girls and British girls in general are much easier and straight forward due to absence of Catholic church influence etc but NI and Britain are riddled with estates full of single mothers with brat children who skip school and become the social parasites the government love to make examples of if they don't work the scummy jobs no sensible person would do. These easy girls with thick orange make up are not worth pishing on while harder girls with a bit more respect for themselves have a lot more to them and are much better to be with in every sense if you have the charm and Wit to get that far, Mr Fingers will never know Alas.
rocket , let me tell you something for nothing mate , in my time in england in the 70s ...it pains me to say this but here goes..... southern irish women were known as easy meat ....mostly by west indians ,..in my time , there were vast amounts of shall we say half caste children running around tottenham lots of them with irish mothers ....so for you or anyone else to cast aspersions on any northen irish or otherwise is totally wrong ....just as an aside ozy , i was one of the lucky ones who were brought up in the socalled age of free love , so without making myself out to be a great lover , i'm far from that i can assure you , i had the privilege of knowing many women in england of all races , i was very lucky , yet when i came home here and met my wife of 32 years , i'm proud to say i've never strayed ...so i respect wildmanfrombourneo and what he stands for ..respect of a woman is only given when that woman deserves it ..i think wildman has every right to be proud of himself on this issue ...ask yourself this ozy ..would YOU be happy knowing YOUR mother was screwing around....
true freddiek very much like ....not only dublin either i might add...
i was one of the lucky ones who were brought up in the socalled age of free love , so without making myself out to be a great lover , i'm far from that i can assure you , i had the privilege of knowing many women in england of all races ,
High Five, workrider. You the man!
High Five, workrider. You the man!
i'd call it lucky myself...right time right place ....
back to the rory issue.....i have just again read the comments in todays irish news and am forming the firm opinion that mc ilroy will declare for team gb.... indeed he will be team gbs poster boy for the rio games.....it would be more lucrative for him and for sponsors for him to be face of team gb rather than team ireland.....indeed it does not boil down to national allegiance it boils down to the pound coin as it so often does....
Yes, Richters. You have figured it out. Rory is desparate for a few extra shillings. Why admit to the simple truth that is staring you in the face (that he simply prefers to represent GB) when you can hide behind contrived denial???
no ozy he is simply doing what is in the best interest of those sponsoring him....and what benefits them benefits him.....tbh i really dont think the lad knows what allegiance he is.....ozy obviously you want to be british but does being a citizen of ireland really eat you up that much....
no ozy he is simply doing what is in the best interest of those sponsoring him....and what benefits them benefits him.....tbh i really dont think the lad knows what allegiance he is.....ozy obviously you want to be british but does being a citizen of ireland really eat you up that much....
^Maybe so had no qualms joining Galwegians Conor Ridges horizon management.
No qualms drinking a pint of Guinnesss either.
I wonder if that's because its the best stout around or because he feels more Irish than British????
I wonder if that's because its the best stout around or because he feels more Irish than British????
ah, ridge is a spiv,he would sell his old wan for a higher percentage and obviously mcilroy like all northern prods knows,money is before god and country.
snurpy little spoilt brat imo,ok he is a great golfer but his been groomed to play from early age,he should not have availed of any irish help in previous years imo with his attitude,good riddance i say
He may well decide that there is nothing to gain by playing in the Olympics, but there might be something to lose. Hence, I wouldn't be surprised if he sidesteps controversy by making such a decison and announces that he will focus on his preparations the PGA/ Fedex/ Ryder Cup around that time.
I would be surprised if Rory has as much sentiment about his nationality as some people might have.
When it comes to chosing who to represent in the olympics i would say he has to make a choice he would rather not have to. I dont think its in his nature to wish to offend any sections of the people with different feelings of nationality who share our island.
I have no idea what religion or any he has and i could not care less. Neither do i care if he has a british or irish passport. Thats his choice. People are sometimes wrong in confusing religion and nationality when it comes to living in ireland. Wolfe Tone was one of the great Irish nationalists but he was not a catholic.
Rory comes from a unionist part of the north and i would imagine irrespective of what religion he is that most of his old schoolfriends and family and wider circle of friends are protestant unionist.
I would say he does benefit in the american market by being seen and refered to as irish on many ocasions and i would doubt he would take offence in this but i think he would hold a british passport rather than an irish one and is happier not to be drawn on the issue and i dont see anything wrong with this.
When it comes to chosing who to represent in the olympics i would say he has to make a choice he would rather not have to. I dont think its in his nature to wish to offend any sections of the people with different feelings of nationality who share our island.
I have no idea what religion or any he has and i could not care less. Neither do i care if he has a british or irish passport. Thats his choice. People are sometimes wrong in confusing religion and nationality when it comes to living in ireland. Wolfe Tone was one of the great Irish nationalists but he was not a catholic.
Rory comes from a unionist part of the north and i would imagine irrespective of what religion he is that most of his old schoolfriends and family and wider circle of friends are protestant unionist.
I would say he does benefit in the american market by being seen and refered to as irish on many ocasions and i would doubt he would take offence in this but i think he would hold a british passport rather than an irish one and is happier not to be drawn on the issue and i dont see anything wrong with this.
I think its a given he will play for GB at any future olympics and i dont see why anyone would think its even an issue given that he comes from a unionist background in the north of ireland. As an irish person i find it bigoted that he should be criticised for this decision in any way.
The fact that the UK team for the Olympics chose to travel under the banner/logo "Team GB " should be noted for future reference . Guess it was a slip up by the PRO people , or maybe it wasn't ? But "Team GB and NI " doesn't work , particularly for the media and for the people of England Scotland and Wales ( cant have that small annex getting particular mention when we are classified as generic ) .
GB equals England , Scotland , and Wales . Does not include Northern Ireland .
Anyone with the clout of the World No 1 about to represent the UK in the Olympics ( assuming eligibility etc and ranking qualification ) would be honour bound to insist that the "team GB " thing got binned next time . Know I would if it was me . Up to the civil servants and authorities to get it right is it not , thats what they get paid for .
Lets you see what a can of worms exists in situations and allegiances and loyalties in this part of the world . Trouble is , most of us cant do anything about it , we are prisoners of history and forces beyond our control . Guess we have to blame someone though . The Blame Game .
Dissecting some other sentiments in this thread regarding national allegiances , if a sportsman chooses to locate his domicile outside the country of his birth , thereby not contributing financially to his country of births economy ( albeit also not using up the countries resources ) , Does The Team Think that they should be allowed to march under the country's flag ? Or should there be an "individual " flag of convenience for the sportsmen in that particular category ?
Might cramp Luke and Lee John ( and Rory ) that logic , plus maybe Andy and Becks etc if they are "tax exiles " and domiciled outside GB ( sorry UK ) . Cans of worms .
And if Charlie were still about he would have figured some way to "encourage" sports star eligible for Ireland to stay at home ( domicile way notionally) and earnings to be subject to "special status " --a la stud fees . Might make it easier sometimes to pick a team too ! Incentives !
GB equals England , Scotland , and Wales . Does not include Northern Ireland .
Anyone with the clout of the World No 1 about to represent the UK in the Olympics ( assuming eligibility etc and ranking qualification ) would be honour bound to insist that the "team GB " thing got binned next time . Know I would if it was me . Up to the civil servants and authorities to get it right is it not , thats what they get paid for .
Lets you see what a can of worms exists in situations and allegiances and loyalties in this part of the world . Trouble is , most of us cant do anything about it , we are prisoners of history and forces beyond our control . Guess we have to blame someone though . The Blame Game .
Dissecting some other sentiments in this thread regarding national allegiances , if a sportsman chooses to locate his domicile outside the country of his birth , thereby not contributing financially to his country of births economy ( albeit also not using up the countries resources ) , Does The Team Think that they should be allowed to march under the country's flag ? Or should there be an "individual " flag of convenience for the sportsmen in that particular category ?
Might cramp Luke and Lee John ( and Rory ) that logic , plus maybe Andy and Becks etc if they are "tax exiles " and domiciled outside GB ( sorry UK ) . Cans of worms .
And if Charlie were still about he would have figured some way to "encourage" sports star eligible for Ireland to stay at home ( domicile way notionally) and earnings to be subject to "special status " --a la stud fees . Might make it easier sometimes to pick a team too ! Incentives !
I am no expert on tax laws but i was under the impression you do not qualify for taxes if you are domiciled outside of your country of birth for a certain period of the year. When a sports star in competing internationally it might be the case they are out of the country for prolonged periods due to the global nature of their sport. In such cases they would not be deliberately be avoiding taxes by being domicled outside the country. Nonetheless there is a legal law and a moral law. Morally they should still ante up with their fair burden of taxes.
Those people, from sports to business who deliberatley chose to be domicied outside the country for a specific period in order to avoid paying taxes are in a different category. Moral justice does not apply to them because their action show they dont have any. These people should be striped of their passports and told to fling their hook.
Those people, from sports to business who deliberatley chose to be domicied outside the country for a specific period in order to avoid paying taxes are in a different category. Moral justice does not apply to them because their action show they dont have any. These people should be striped of their passports and told to fling their hook.
Have to disagree with Kelly for saying McIroy would be honour bound to insist on a name change for team GB if he was to represent them. First of all team GB is an abreviation of great britain and northern ireland and this longer version was mentioned several times during the olympics.
Infact i read a post by yourself Kelly duting the olympics when you referred to team GB as "we" in the sense as you being from northern ireland and part of team GB so you are clear in your own mind that northern ireland is clearly defined as part of team GB.
Infact i read a post by yourself Kelly duting the olympics when you referred to team GB as "we" in the sense as you being from northern ireland and part of team GB so you are clear in your own mind that northern ireland is clearly defined as part of team GB.
In betting terms i would take short odds on that McIlroy will opt to represent GB rather than Ireland if he competes at the next olympics. I would offer 100/1 on him insisting on GB changing its name as a condition of him being on the team. Anyone who advised him to do that would need sectioned. Can you imagine how arrogant such a precondition would look to people in england, scotland and wales that McIlroy thought he was such a big star that he could get an international team to change its name.
Obviously i am not british but the team GB name has more to do with commentators not having much time to say the full name of great britain and northern ireland in a lot of events when the action is moving so fast. When they have more time to use the full title they often do so.
Its the 100 metres final and flying on the outside for great britain and northern ireland is Kelly. By the time it would take to say great britain and northen ireland the race would be over.
Obviously i am not british but the team GB name has more to do with commentators not having much time to say the full name of great britain and northern ireland in a lot of events when the action is moving so fast. When they have more time to use the full title they often do so.
Its the 100 metres final and flying on the outside for great britain and northern ireland is Kelly. By the time it would take to say great britain and northen ireland the race would be over.
Mcilroy is about as irish as Peter Robinson Ian Paisley Darren Clarke and Graeme McDowell.......as for wonker not straying.....who in gods name would have the fool........
I dont know how anyone would ever have thought McIlroy would see himself as anything other than British. But whats the big deal. It would seem to some people that its wrong for someone from a unionist/protestant background in the north to think of themselves as British. I dont see how it is remotely controversial or ofensive or any surprise that McIroy would decide to play for GB or see himself as British.
The bottom line is that if your from the north of ireland you dont chose your nationality. It choses you before you were even born.
I would be surprised if there has been any Ulster rugby players born in the north who were not from the unionist/protestant tradition.I am very happy to support the Ulster rugby team when they play any matches including those against the other three irish provinces.
The bottom line is that if your from the north of ireland you dont chose your nationality. It choses you before you were even born.
I would be surprised if there has been any Ulster rugby players born in the north who were not from the unionist/protestant tradition.I am very happy to support the Ulster rugby team when they play any matches including those against the other three irish provinces.
The Unionists have always been a minority posturing as a majority and whether they like it or not they are Irish.
I dont think you can tell someone else what nationality they are!
Walk me through why 'The Unionists have always been a minority' please?
You are the graduate surely it would be easier for you to walk us through when they were the majority.
I don't waste my time walking people through the blindingly obvious.
That chip on your shoulder regarding your lack of education is getting bigger by the day!
That chip on your shoulder regarding your lack of education is getting bigger by the day!
'twas you that asked the question,'twas you that paraded your degree here alongside that other notable graduate Rocketfingers and it's you that looks down on people you deem inferior,how that sits with your many bleatings about discrimination is a mystery.
In your world there is no need for racial discrimination as you have a better way to discriminate,it's called the class system.
In your world there is no need for racial discrimination as you have a better way to discriminate,it's called the class system.
I would be surprised if there has been any Ulster rugby players born in the north who were not from the unionist/protestant tradition.
paddletoe, Tommy Bowe is a proud Catholic and Nationalist. I know what you're saying though. He'd be the exception rather than the norm.
paddletoe, Tommy Bowe is a proud Catholic and Nationalist. I know what you're saying though. He'd be the exception rather than the norm.
what makes me sick is the thick paddies are always cribbing if the Brits claim either a scot or an irish person.......andy murray for example......then the paddies are up in arms when true british .......like mcilroy,clarke and mcdowell dont want to be irish.....
During the Vietnam war many American soldiers threw away their medals and said they were ashamed to be American but it didn't change the fact they were,similarly those golfers you mention may wish they were English but the fact is they are Irish.
You can't wish away your nationality.
You can't wish away your nationality.
HATE GIVING MY VIEWS ON THIS BUT SURELY EVERYONE HAS A DEVINE RIGHT FROM THE NORTH TO PLAY FOR WHOEVER WE WISH I SAY GOOD LUCK TO HIM .I ALSO HAVE MIXED MARRIAGE 28 YEARS (WORKRIDER WILL CONFIRM IM A prod ). I WANT TO BE COUNTED AS BRITISH BUT CERTAINLY DONT WANT TO FIGHT FOR THE THAT JUST VOTE AS IS MY RIGHT I COUNT MYSELF AS BRITISH FIRST, I WOULD SUPPORT IRELAND AND ULSTER AT RUGBY , NORTHERN IRELAND AND ENGLAND AT FOOTBALL AND ALSO SUPPORT REPUBLIC IN ANY COMPETITIONS AS LONG AS THEY NOT PLAYING( BEATING MY BELOVED NORN IRON OR ENGLAND )BUT IT DOESNT MAKE ME A BAD PERSON IVE HAVE GREAT GIRLS BOTH BROUGHT UP CATHOLIC AND I WOULD DIE FOR THEM WHICH IN MY MIND MEANS WHEN YOU LIVE UP HERE YOU CAN HAVE LOTS HARD CHOICES TO MAKE BUT ITS NOT LIFE OR DEATH . IMO GOLFERS GET PAYED WAY TO MUCH TO WORRY ABOUT A green white an gold or red white an blue GOLD MEDAL . WE LIVE ON A BEAUTIFUL ISLAND BUT WETHER ITS NORTH OR SOUTH OR UNITED EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO CHOOSE YOUR ALLEGIENCE
Rainier Wolfcastle
Joined: 26 Dec 06
Replies: 705 12 Sep 12 14:19
I would be surprised if there has been any Ulster rugby players born in the north who were not from the unionist/protestant tradition.
paddletoe, Tommy Bowe is a proud Catholic and Nationalist. I know what you're saying though. He'd be the exception rather than the norm.
Tommy Bowe was not born in the North although he was born in Ulster. Was a brilliant minor footballer for Monaghan as well and I still lament that he opted for rugby despite it proving to be a great move for him.
Joined: 26 Dec 06
Replies: 705 12 Sep 12 14:19
I would be surprised if there has been any Ulster rugby players born in the north who were not from the unionist/protestant tradition.
paddletoe, Tommy Bowe is a proud Catholic and Nationalist. I know what you're saying though. He'd be the exception rather than the norm.
Tommy Bowe was not born in the North although he was born in Ulster. Was a brilliant minor footballer for Monaghan as well and I still lament that he opted for rugby despite it proving to be a great move for him.
"similarly those golfers you mention may wish they were English but the fact is they are Irish"
wildman - I wouldn't like to speak for them but I'd wager a serious amount that one thing that Clarke, McIlroy and McDowell do not see themselves as (or wish to be) is English. To state the obvious, England is just one part of the union (albeit a big chunk of it in terms of population).
wildman - I wouldn't like to speak for them but I'd wager a serious amount that one thing that Clarke, McIlroy and McDowell do not see themselves as (or wish to be) is English. To state the obvious, England is just one part of the union (albeit a big chunk of it in terms of population).
Fair point Just So,my general point is,it is possible to be both Irish and British they are not mutually exclusive.
I was just about to reply to wolfie but distant view said what i was going to. I specifically said the north of ireland so tommy bowe is obviously precluded from that being from monaghan.
Not that it matters to me in the slightest but i always thought Tommy Bowe was from the protestant tradition eventhough i know he played gaelic football for Monaghan in the past and his sister still does. I just assumed that to be the case as he attended the royal school in armagh.
I now Willie Anderson who played rugby for Dungannon, Ulster and Ireland also played a few games for Loup gaelic footballers.
I dont think there is any modern day prejudice in ulster rugby against catholics and i would say in the future there will be catholics born in the north playing for ulster. But unless you play rugby at schools level its hard to reach any high standard and its simply has never been played in catholic schools in the north in the past.
Not that it matters to me in the slightest but i always thought Tommy Bowe was from the protestant tradition eventhough i know he played gaelic football for Monaghan in the past and his sister still does. I just assumed that to be the case as he attended the royal school in armagh.
I now Willie Anderson who played rugby for Dungannon, Ulster and Ireland also played a few games for Loup gaelic footballers.
I dont think there is any modern day prejudice in ulster rugby against catholics and i would say in the future there will be catholics born in the north playing for ulster. But unless you play rugby at schools level its hard to reach any high standard and its simply has never been played in catholic schools in the north in the past.
By the same token i would hope many more people from the north from a unionist/protestant tradition will play gaelic football in the future.
I think norn ireland summed it up well when he said as someone living on this island from the protestant/unionist tradition he has ever right he consider himself British and no one should have any problem with that. Similarily McIlroy should be granted the same coutesy and respect for whatever nationality he considers himself.
I think norn ireland summed it up well when he said as someone living on this island from the protestant/unionist tradition he has ever right he consider himself British and no one should have any problem with that. Similarily McIlroy should be granted the same coutesy and respect for whatever nationality he considers himself.
fair play wildman - I happen to agree with you on that last point - and isn't that surely what is at the heart of Rory's deliberations on all this?
and fair play to norn, who has clearly lived through a lot of these issues.
and fair play to norn, who has clearly lived through a lot of these issues.
Bloody hell Wildmanfromborneo it's a pity a thesaurus can't think for you, you're making a complete idiot on this thread and showing your true lack of education. Leaving school at 15 going to the UK to claim the dole then working on the sites then meeting a woman and her getting pounded by your best man from Jamaica at your weeding before you got your meet and 2 veg into her as all caught up with you and you're nothing more than a babling senseless mess at the moment.
Ozy giving him a first hand in English and not using a thesaurus is a breath of fresh air to this forum.
Ozy giving him a first hand in English and not using a thesaurus is a breath of fresh air to this forum.
Agreed a typical honest response from Norn Iron.
Nice to see the two graduates stick together,the age you leave school has no bearing on your right to express an opinion.When I went to England it was to work,there was no dole for newly arrived immigrants then,it is why I appreciate that country and admire the English to this day.I am the opposite to you in that I have worked all my life whereas you have never held down a job,notwithstanding that I would never sneer at somebody for drawing the dole.
Nice to see the two graduates stick together,the age you leave school has no bearing on your right to express an opinion.When I went to England it was to work,there was no dole for newly arrived immigrants then,it is why I appreciate that country and admire the English to this day.I am the opposite to you in that I have worked all my life whereas you have never held down a job,notwithstanding that I would never sneer at somebody for drawing the dole.
As this thread has had so many views/contributors, what are peoples thoughts on the Betfair (Irish) Christmas Party this year, possible date and venue. I was thinking maybe December 21st in Bundoran ?
i think norn put it into its proper perspective , we can come on here and spout this that and the other , but LIVING life in the north is DIFFERENT for each community ..surely they have the right to call themselves what they like ..just as we have ...some on here seem to forget that those born in roi before 1949 still have the right to a british passport....i know norn as a friend and can have a joke and chat about both sides of the divide ...p.s. norn , thats my niece doing the allianze add ..i'll let you into a secret , shes not a great cook tbh.....
richters 12 Sep 12 15:42
well said norn....
I nearly fell of my chair when I read that. Have you had an epiphany, Richters? Are you now live and let live?
well said norn....
I nearly fell of my chair when I read that. Have you had an epiphany, Richters? Are you now live and let live?
Well said, Norn, btw.
I find it flabergasting that people in say West Kerry, who have never been to NI, will never go, and know nobody who lives there, still think they have a right or a say in how people who do live in NI should live their life. It's the view of the people who live in NI who matter, nobody else. And to be fair to the British government, that has been their view for a century now.
I find it flabergasting that people in say West Kerry, who have never been to NI, will never go, and know nobody who lives there, still think they have a right or a say in how people who do live in NI should live their life. It's the view of the people who live in NI who matter, nobody else. And to be fair to the British government, that has been their view for a century now.
Northern Ireland is a region not a separate entity,that a certain elite decided they would create a Protestant parliament for a Protestant people doesn't make it right and when some parts of North Dublin have a Muslim majority they will not be allowed secede and form their own Islamic state.
Unionists are and were a minority in Ireland that doesn't mean they are not allowed celebrate their culture and
D Britishness.
Unionists are and were a minority in Ireland that doesn't mean they are not allowed celebrate their culture and
D Britishness.
ID JUST LIKE ADD THAT NORTHERN IRELAND IS A VASTLY IMPROVED PLACE TO LIVE AND BRING CHILDREN UP IN (ALTHO LAST WEEKS RIOTS DISGUSTED EVERYONE UP HERE APART FROM THE BIGOTS WHO WILL NEVER CHANGE). I AM PRESENTLY TAKING CRICKET INTO 6 PRIMARY SCHOOLS AND ALSO INTO CATHOLIC SCHOOLS SOMETHING THAT WOULD SHOCKED QUITE A FEW BUT THE FACT THAT AN IRISH LANGUAGE SCHOOL ALSO ASKED US IN (THINK IVE SEEN THEN NEXT EOIN MORGAN)IS SOMETHING THAT PLEASES ME AS A SPORT MAD 55 YEAR OLD . I WAS MAD KEEN TRY GAELIC BUT THE DIEHARDS/BIGOT AT THE TIME SAID PRODS WERNT WELCOME = THERE LOSS AS I NO I WOULD BEEN GOOD AT IT . I FEEL SORRY FOR RORY AS HE IS GETTING UNDESERVED STICK LOTS PLAYERS JOIN other TEAMS HALF ENG CRICKET TEAM IS SOUTH AFRICAN AND EVEN IRE CRICKET TEAM HAVE ENGLISH PLAYING AND EOIN MORGAN/ ED JOYCE LEFT WHICH HARDLY GOT MENTION AND FEW NORN IRON FOOTBALLERS HAVE JOINED EIRE = TOUGH DECISIONS THAT DONT PLEASE EVERYONE BUT SURELY ITS AS SIMPLE AS ITS ANY SPORTSMANS CHOICE TO PLAY FOR WHO HE WANTS . LAST POST WHICH IM SURE WILL PLEASE A few
rory can choose who he likes to play for.thems the facts.the british will be sore if he plays for ireland and vice versa.i think norn iron sums it up perfectly..
how did ye near fall off your chair ozy....i have never offended anyone in the unionist community.i might share differing political views with some people but thats as far as it goes....norn as he always does has put up a sensible post on the subject and i have since joining this forum discussed racing and other sporting issues with him....it might be surprising for you to hear ozy but a lot of my friends and neighbours are protestant....the 6 counties of ireland just isnt the sectarian hotbed it is portrayed as in the press and the sooner people realise that better....
Borneo, you seem to shoehorn the word 'elite' into every sentence. It reminds me of a child blaming 'the bogey man' for everything that goes wrong in their life.
Delighted to hear it Richters, perhaps you could extend your tolerance to the West Brit Community in the ROI 
I have made 15 posts of varying length on this thread and have used the word elite once,shows how accurate your intolerant posts are.
ozy the said race you mentioned just cannot be tolerated imo.....a breed onto their own.....LOL
what i want to know,who are these people that want to deny mcilroy's right to declare for the brits or indeed his right to consider himself british?i hav'nt heard a politician ,north or south,or anyone in the media suggesting that.
my criticism is of that open letter,where he backed tracked when he and his advisers realised that his future earnings might not be maximised with his stated position the day before.
my criticism is of that open letter,where he backed tracked when he and his advisers realised that his future earnings might not be maximised with his stated position the day before.
A breed apart, we are that alright, Richters. You think you have it hard up there, have you ever thought about how my kind are oppressed down here?
Norn I've just read Wildman's post a few posts up and ok it's sick, it's bigoted and he paints a picture of an Ireland i for one would not want to go back to. Like Workrider in another thread there is a serious dearth of knowledge present in his posts, i would say both are Sun readers or some sort of tabloid daily paper. I enjoy both chaps although Workrider is much more simple and a super nicer guy, Wildman knows how to surf the internet better and knows how to copy and paste and use a thesaurus so by garnishing all together he is able post on the more interesting topics. I would not take either that serious as they love goofing around.
RF
RF
It's alright for Rocketfingers and Ozymandius they are both childless so don't really care about this countries future.
Rocketfingers your portrayal of Workrider is both patronising and wrong,he has an experience of life which you haven't and it shines through all your posts.
Rocketfingers your portrayal of Workrider is both patronising and wrong,he has an experience of life which you haven't and it shines through all your posts.
I honestly would never speak down to you or Workrider on purpose Wildman, actually i rarely take notice of your posts anyway so i never see this so called 'experience' mate, but keep giving it out i'm sure i'll see it some day.
Your inability to read long posts is kicking in again,it was Workriders experience I was referring to.
Wildman, i'm big headed, i admit it, i skim through your posts but i'm a busy busy man. Listen if there is something you think that's worth reading let me know, ok?
RF
RF
Norn has it right.
Personally I'm dissppointed as it would be great to be able to cheer for McDowell and Mcllroy (on current form) in Irish Jerseys in Rio.
I would criticize him in not just coming out and saying or sticking with his original interview with the Daily Mail and end the charade.
Personally I'm dissppointed as it would be great to be able to cheer for McDowell and Mcllroy (on current form) in Irish Jerseys in Rio.
I would criticize him in not just coming out and saying or sticking with his original interview with the Daily Mail and end the charade.
BOTH McIlroy`s parents are Catholic,McDowell comes from a mixed marriage and Clarke is Protestant - not that it should matter
Of the three,strangely,Clarke probably considers himself Irish the most....had no trouble waving the tri colour after Ryder Cup victory but that doesn`t make him a Catholic,just like Gerry McIlroy`s antics( which I`ve never seen)don`t make him a Protestant
Of the three,strangely,Clarke probably considers himself Irish the most....had no trouble waving the tri colour after Ryder Cup victory but that doesn`t make him a Catholic,just like Gerry McIlroy`s antics( which I`ve never seen)don`t make him a Protestant
Just to be clear Rodney I am not running down the Father, merely stating what we all saw after his son won his First major. He wanted to wave a flag to celebrate his son's famous victory and it was a Union Jack. Also the Fathers friends who were in sleeveless vests had Union Jack tattoos. I (rightly or wrongly assumed from that they were loyalists but perhaps they were just patriotic)
People seem to think that all Ulster Rugby players born in NI are from Unionist backgrounds. Total bollox. O'Connor, Jackson, McLaughlin ALL Catholics., There is more than those 3 by the way.
Getting back to wee Curly hair he should be playing for Ireland. The **** wss brought up through the Irish Golfing system. Golf is an All Ireland body in Ireland.
Getting back to wee Curly hair he should be playing for Ireland. The **** wss brought up through the Irish Golfing system. Golf is an All Ireland body in Ireland.
Paddletoe , just read your post referencing my interpretation of the term GB . Would need documentary verification of your statement as I would need to be severely drunk to imply that GB covered Northern Ireland as well as "the mainland" . And I am never drunk .
The salient point is that the correct name for those representing England , Scotland , Wales , and Northern Ireland would be TEAM UK , not TEAM GB . Pretty obvious to me , but maybe not to a John Bullite , thats the point about the post . Someone boobed , but I will wager my entire bank on here that they were from "the mainland" .
Also it appears that people do not know where some of the " homegrown" current Ulster rugby team have family roots . Tommy Bowe is from south of the "border " , Monaghan to be precise , and had a gaelic football pedigree as well as playing rugby . At least one other member of the team is known to me as an old friends grandson , the old friend represented Ireland in another major sporting discipline many years ago , and he is still a regular massgoer . The players connection with church going is unknown to me , not that it matters , but I doubt he has changed family "spots " to the extent of marching to the beat of a different drum .
I know people who have known Rory's dad for years and years , and some who have fairly recent dealings / contact with him . Must ask them if they know ( or care ) about Rory's dads affiliations , as there seem to be fairly opposing views on certain aspects of that .
Have not been in Holywood golf club myself since I was a teenager , once was enough , we termed it a "short leg " course ( ie to play any shot you needed one leg to be shorter than the other to get an even stance ). Used to be Royal Belfast as far as I remember , but they moved to better terrain down near Belfast Lough where they are today . But thats not to say that Holywood isn't a good place to learn to play golf , possibly it is , and apart from Portrush few of our great players here in the North come from "premium clubs" ie those you would want to play every day and not get tired of . Fred was Portrush born and bred , Darren was Dungannon , Gmac was Portrush , and Rory was Holywood . Others in between timewise, but not as good professionally were from all over the place . James Bruen was from Belfast , a fact not generally appreciated by most of our southern brethern , but family moved to Cork (Muskerry) when he was about 10 . Anyway James was a hurler playing golf . Spectacularly .
The bit about "tribal " associations in sport in the North sometimes yields startling moments . One of my friends was being regaled recently by the headmaster of a well known school here about the scope and breadth of their cross community outlook . School has nobody in it playing , teaching or even spectating at GAA sports , most other sports , yes , a fact acknowleged later by the headmaster in answer to the query " how did your McCrory cup team do this year " . Mindsets are hard to change .
Facts about the North are : about 33% look south , about 33% look to the "mainland " , and 34 % are ambivalent about their view . Unfortunately the first 2 groupings form the "government" and now divide up the cake . The price of peace --the mantra runs .
The salient point is that the correct name for those representing England , Scotland , Wales , and Northern Ireland would be TEAM UK , not TEAM GB . Pretty obvious to me , but maybe not to a John Bullite , thats the point about the post . Someone boobed , but I will wager my entire bank on here that they were from "the mainland" .
Also it appears that people do not know where some of the " homegrown" current Ulster rugby team have family roots . Tommy Bowe is from south of the "border " , Monaghan to be precise , and had a gaelic football pedigree as well as playing rugby . At least one other member of the team is known to me as an old friends grandson , the old friend represented Ireland in another major sporting discipline many years ago , and he is still a regular massgoer . The players connection with church going is unknown to me , not that it matters , but I doubt he has changed family "spots " to the extent of marching to the beat of a different drum .
I know people who have known Rory's dad for years and years , and some who have fairly recent dealings / contact with him . Must ask them if they know ( or care ) about Rory's dads affiliations , as there seem to be fairly opposing views on certain aspects of that .
Have not been in Holywood golf club myself since I was a teenager , once was enough , we termed it a "short leg " course ( ie to play any shot you needed one leg to be shorter than the other to get an even stance ). Used to be Royal Belfast as far as I remember , but they moved to better terrain down near Belfast Lough where they are today . But thats not to say that Holywood isn't a good place to learn to play golf , possibly it is , and apart from Portrush few of our great players here in the North come from "premium clubs" ie those you would want to play every day and not get tired of . Fred was Portrush born and bred , Darren was Dungannon , Gmac was Portrush , and Rory was Holywood . Others in between timewise, but not as good professionally were from all over the place . James Bruen was from Belfast , a fact not generally appreciated by most of our southern brethern , but family moved to Cork (Muskerry) when he was about 10 . Anyway James was a hurler playing golf . Spectacularly .
The bit about "tribal " associations in sport in the North sometimes yields startling moments . One of my friends was being regaled recently by the headmaster of a well known school here about the scope and breadth of their cross community outlook . School has nobody in it playing , teaching or even spectating at GAA sports , most other sports , yes , a fact acknowleged later by the headmaster in answer to the query " how did your McCrory cup team do this year " . Mindsets are hard to change .
Facts about the North are : about 33% look south , about 33% look to the "mainland " , and 34 % are ambivalent about their view . Unfortunately the first 2 groupings form the "government" and now divide up the cake . The price of peace --the mantra runs .
Jimmy Bruen was a Corkman through and through,he considered himself one,he sounded like one and was probably Ireland's best ever amateur golfer(Joe Carr might disagree)he was famous for his unorthodox swing.
Kelly is right when he says he was born in Belfast but where you are born is only one aspect of deciding where you are from,his family moved temporarily from Cork to Belfast and quickly moved back.
If a school with a Protestant ethos wants to concentrate on say Cricket Rugby or Hockey,what's wrong with that,it would be absolutely wrong to force Gaelic games on them.
Kelly is right when he says he was born in Belfast but where you are born is only one aspect of deciding where you are from,his family moved temporarily from Cork to Belfast and quickly moved back.
If a school with a Protestant ethos wants to concentrate on say Cricket Rugby or Hockey,what's wrong with that,it would be absolutely wrong to force Gaelic games on them.
lustrumm were did you see these picture of gerry mc ilroy with the union jack and his loyalist friends i must admit ive never seen such footage.....
saw it myself......mcilroys old fella.....with a few guys who looked like johnny adair......real nice catholic chappies......
Hi again everyone. The bottom line of the main topic on this thread is in my view that McIlroy should have the free choice to decide to represent team GB and it should not be any issue to anyone else. I dont see him being disloyal in any way as i suspect he was brought up always considering himself British and will have a British passport. It does not mean he is anti irish and indeed i would say he is quite pro irish and does not mind being sometomes referred to as being irish when he is playing in america.
In regard to Kellys point about team GB well i think the shortened version of the name from great britain and northern ireland is simply because its as easier abreviation to use for written journalists and easier to say for tv commentators. Also its probably better for advertisements. But the full name great britain and northern ireland is also used.
Kelly, i am affraid i have no documentation evidence of my point you mentioned. I tend not to keep files on other forum members. I do however recall a thread during the olympics titled along the lines of how many medals team gb would win. I cant remember your exact post on it but to paraphrase you answered along the lines of - i think we will win such and such. So the interpratation would be clear as you live in n.ireland and used the word we in reference to a post on team gb ( dont believe there was any reference to gb and northern ireland in the title thread).
In regard to Kellys point about team GB well i think the shortened version of the name from great britain and northern ireland is simply because its as easier abreviation to use for written journalists and easier to say for tv commentators. Also its probably better for advertisements. But the full name great britain and northern ireland is also used.
Kelly, i am affraid i have no documentation evidence of my point you mentioned. I tend not to keep files on other forum members. I do however recall a thread during the olympics titled along the lines of how many medals team gb would win. I cant remember your exact post on it but to paraphrase you answered along the lines of - i think we will win such and such. So the interpratation would be clear as you live in n.ireland and used the word we in reference to a post on team gb ( dont believe there was any reference to gb and northern ireland in the title thread).
Rory looking completely comfortable and at ease posing with this flag
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264476_195624033822666_3906204_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264476_195624033822666_3906204_n.jpg
but raising another at a Walker Cup ceremony
http://sites.duke.edu/belfast2011/files/2011/06/McIlroy-Tricolor.jpg
http://sites.duke.edu/belfast2011/files/2011/06/McIlroy-Tricolor.jpg
The fact that McIlroy may have been brought up through the irish golfing union is seconadary to the fact that he was brought up in a community who would have considered themselves British. By all accounts his dad certainly does.
Would someone really expect a lad brought up on the Falls road to represent team gb and go against their community and family in doing so.
Would someone really expect a lad brought up on the Falls road to represent team gb and go against their community and family in doing so.
If he considers himself Orange, then let him off.
Kelly
As a fellow Downman,1989 European Order of Merit winner Ronan Rafferty is a shocking omission from your list of golfers
As a fellow Downman,1989 European Order of Merit winner Ronan Rafferty is a shocking omission from your list of golfers
found this on the web http://www.swinfordgolf.com/News/2011/News.html
ews today suggests that the 111th US Open Champion Rory McIlroy has a strong GAA background. His uncle Mickey McDonald was a star attacker for Armagh from 1982 to 1987. He has been asked about the GAA on more than one occasion (most notably on the Late Late Show in February). However, on each occasion the young man always passes off the question and talks about Ulster Rugby. Click here for the full GAA story. A catholic lad growing up in a middle class protestant area; certainly has affected his GAA roots. In the second round of the Irish_Amateur_Close_Championship (2005) at Westport Golf Club (in which he went on to win), there was more talk about Rory wearing Union Jack Shoes than his great play.
Rory's Record Breaking Score
His triumph was welcomed by golf fans around the world and the new champion also brushed off, almost literally, any minor rumblings of controversy when a fan threw an Irish Tricolour onto his shoulder as he left the course following his victory. Footage showed a security guard quickly removing the flag, after Rory handed it to him. Rory McIlroy has in the past said he would like to represent Great Britain in golf at the Olympics, although he has represented Ireland at amateur level and at the professional World Cup with Graeme McDowell in 2009. Whatever about the politics, there is no denying that Rory is the future of golf and his record breaking US Open proves that. ....
Game over imo and the Dublin media can give up this Irish nonsense everytime hes talked about
ews today suggests that the 111th US Open Champion Rory McIlroy has a strong GAA background. His uncle Mickey McDonald was a star attacker for Armagh from 1982 to 1987. He has been asked about the GAA on more than one occasion (most notably on the Late Late Show in February). However, on each occasion the young man always passes off the question and talks about Ulster Rugby. Click here for the full GAA story. A catholic lad growing up in a middle class protestant area; certainly has affected his GAA roots. In the second round of the Irish_Amateur_Close_Championship (2005) at Westport Golf Club (in which he went on to win), there was more talk about Rory wearing Union Jack Shoes than his great play.
Rory's Record Breaking Score
His triumph was welcomed by golf fans around the world and the new champion also brushed off, almost literally, any minor rumblings of controversy when a fan threw an Irish Tricolour onto his shoulder as he left the course following his victory. Footage showed a security guard quickly removing the flag, after Rory handed it to him. Rory McIlroy has in the past said he would like to represent Great Britain in golf at the Olympics, although he has represented Ireland at amateur level and at the professional World Cup with Graeme McDowell in 2009. Whatever about the politics, there is no denying that Rory is the future of golf and his record breaking US Open proves that. ....
Game over imo and the Dublin media can give up this Irish nonsense everytime hes talked about
Paddleotoe , GUARANTEE you you cant verify anything like that from me re "we" . Always furthest from my mind .
The Dublin media are made of Dubs they wet their knickers wehn Dublin do well at anything and RTE love Shams as they're the south Dublin club, i notice Bohs are treated different. But the Dublin media are Dubs. Two weeks ago Sligo Rovers maintained their 11 point lead at the top of the premier league but the headline on RTE read Super Saints now up to 3rd, surely the most important news was would the how the league leaders do. There was over 3k at our game and under 800 circa at the Pats match in Dublin, to me that's a great example of the Dublin media bias
Mickey McDonald , star attacker . Journalistic licence . Must have seen him myself , no memories other than the name . Armagh in the eighties were not as good as their All -Ireland winning teams a couple of decades later . Eminently beatable then .
But as Rory's uncle there must be reflected glory now .
But as Rory's uncle there must be reflected glory now .
Rodney , fellow Downman yes , from Warrenpoint . Excellent golfer , topped the European order of merit , just never on my wish list . But he is am ommission , allow that , but I was I think referring to more household names . I left out others too who are worthy of mention , but you cant name em all . Apologies to those ( like Ronan ) left out .
I remember watching McDonald playing against Armagh Harps in `89 championship final....Dangerous and talented player,in his own right,at club level.Never quite fulfilled his potential in the county jersey.
When Rory first touched the national consciousness a friend of mine ( who is not particularly interested in golf ) mentioned that he remenbered Rory's uncle playing against Down in 1984 in some match which I was not at ( but my friend was ). That was about 6 years ago .
Family talents dont always translate directly as we all know . Sporting wise . But attitudes often do cross the sport lines . Maybe a factor with Rory , genes etc . Not affecting any ultimate decision though I suspect . Golf is very much an individual sport , you cant blame anyone else realistically ( except your self and your bag carrier ) ,you live or die by the shots taken , even if its a team event . A bit like tennis essentially and they are broadly similar in an Olympic vein I think .
Family talents dont always translate directly as we all know . Sporting wise . But attitudes often do cross the sport lines . Maybe a factor with Rory , genes etc . Not affecting any ultimate decision though I suspect . Golf is very much an individual sport , you cant blame anyone else realistically ( except your self and your bag carrier ) ,you live or die by the shots taken , even if its a team event . A bit like tennis essentially and they are broadly similar in an Olympic vein I think .
I do believe the game you`re referring to is the 1983 National League final
From The Hogan Stand website
The Orchard County had edged out Meath on a 2-8 to 1-7 scoreline in the semi-finals, the opportunist McDonald finishing with a tally of 1-2.
Unfortunately for the men in Saffron, old rivals Down surprised everybody by virtue of a 1-8 to 0-8 final victory, with Mickey McDonald notching one of the Armagh points.
During that League run McDonald struck 1-1 in a famous victory over Kerry in his native Lurgan, while his brace of goals edged Armagh to a 3-4 to 0-9 victory over Mayo
From The Hogan Stand website
The Orchard County had edged out Meath on a 2-8 to 1-7 scoreline in the semi-finals, the opportunist McDonald finishing with a tally of 1-2.
Unfortunately for the men in Saffron, old rivals Down surprised everybody by virtue of a 1-8 to 0-8 final victory, with Mickey McDonald notching one of the Armagh points.
During that League run McDonald struck 1-1 in a famous victory over Kerry in his native Lurgan, while his brace of goals edged Armagh to a 3-4 to 0-9 victory over Mayo
Kelly, perhaps you used the word loosely but you did use it. I hope you dont think i am being twisty. I only brought it up to directly answer a point you mentioned re gb and northern ireland. The only reason i remember it was because i thought it surprising. Nothing more than that. I still stand by my statement but happy to accept you used the word losely. No issue to prove on any account.
It should be clear from my replies on this thread that how a person from the north choses to identify themselves in terms of nationality should in my opinion be a personal choice and totally respected.
It should be clear from my replies on this thread that how a person from the north choses to identify themselves in terms of nationality should in my opinion be a personal choice and totally respected.
John-Paul McCarthy: Rory a denizen of that no man's land
The champion golfer is not the first to be a bit lost in Anglo-Irish identity limbo, writes John-Paul McCarthy
irishindependent.ie
RORY McIlroy may not know it, but in his quandary about his future Olympic allegiance, he joins a noble lineage.
Should he hoist the green, white and gold while gazing up at the Cristo Redentor statue in Rio in 2016, or celebrate victory with a Union Jack?
Tough call for a citizen of the revamped Northern Ireland, a place whose title deeds explicitly "recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both."
For some reason last week, McIlroy's sojourn in a happy identity limbo reminded me of Niall Toibin, another denizen of that special Anglo-Irish no-man's land.
When I was a child, we would always drive to Ballyheigue in Kerry for the summer holidays, the small sandy village flanking the Atlantic swell where James Anthony Froude liked to hike and where Roger Casement came a cropper.
Just as we cleared Killarney and bore down hard on the road to Tralee -- home of the Aquadome and assorted pound shops -- my parents would always play a tape of Toibin's live shows.
To this day I'm transfixed by his poise and his timing, as well as by his insistence on the absolute antithesis between comedy and self-pity.
I see his stand-up act now as a series of meditations on the varieties of the emigrant experience. Toibin told stories about the 'Dagenham Yanks' from Blackpool in Cork city, hardened labourers who had to search abroad for the dignity denied them at home.
With that arch disdain of his for the merely sentimental, Toibin also told tales of poorer devils who did only marginally better across the channel, and ended up haunting William Hill's betting shops or drinking cans in Kilburn, the type of life beautifully rendered on TG4 last year in Colm Meaney's Kings of the Kilburn High Road.
Toibin's darker asides about the unthinking racism of the Cockney hard-chargers or the bitterness that often infected those who stayed home were always filtered, and thus controlled through personal experience.
RTE dumped him at the first tap-tap of the episcopal crozier in the Seventies and he fled to English television as a grateful orphan.
He wrote movingly about his indebtedness to Channel 4 and UTV in his memoir, Smile and Be a Villain, as well as his sense of having been betrayed by Montrose after years of quality work in Irish and English.
He had no problems finding his stride in England after 1977 because "for 20 years I have been semi-detached, a foot on either side of the Irish Sea".
Toibin played Slipper in The Irish RM alongside Peter Bowles as Major Yates.
Like Rory McIlroy, Toibin confessed to being a bit lost by the whole Anglo-Irish thing.
He found the Somerville and Ross books bittersweet and ambiguous, and said he always remembered one particular snippet of the dialogue years after hanging up his (filthy) cap as Slipper the hound-keeper.
The dialogue is an exchange between the major's wife Philippa and Slipper as they dance the night away at the Servants' Ball.
Slipper: "Didn't the major do very well, all the same, and him an Englishman?"
Philippa: "Maybe a bit too English, Mr O'Mahoney?"
Slipper: "No. There's nothing we dislike more than an Englishman pretending to be Irish. The English are the English and the Irish are the Irish, and they understand each other like the fox and the hound."
Philippa: "And which is the fox, Mr O'Mahoney, and which the hound?"
Slipper: "Ah now, Ma'am, sure if we knew that, we'd know everything."
This edgy exchange quarters contentedly with Toibin's tough-minded humanism.
Other people of that generation registered the complexity of the Anglo-Irish relationship in a more basic idiom.
One of the best emigrant memoirs from the Gaeltacht is Maidhc Dainin O Se's A Thig Na Tit Orm from 1987, an unadorned and powerful account of his journey from the semi-feudal scarcities of the Carrachan area of the Kerry Gaeltacht to Sears Roebuck in the Chicago of Adlai Stevenson and Saul Bellow.
O Se was grateful to London for a very simple reason; it provided him with regular wages and the price of his airplane ticket to America.
He recalled two immortal words of advice from his first few days in Woodgreen. Number one was "Tugtar Pat ar gach Eireannach" -- every Irishman is called Pat -- and number two; "Sex is the religion in this country, my boy."
He never looked back.
This kind of flux and easy mixing wasn't always the stuff of public celebration in Ireland though.
A large part of Patrick Pearse's slow-burning hysteria came from the fact that his father was English.
Brian Friel's influential play Translations saw cultural mixing as a euphemism for confrontation and violence.
And Friel's Field Day colleague, the poet Tom Paulin, used a book about the great British radical William Hazlitt to opine about "the complex self-disgust that can afflict those who exist on the interface between two cultural identities".
Friel and Paulin were tipping their hats here to the Palestinian academic Edward Said and his bleak attack on the "supine malleability" of those who identify with two homelands.
Toibin and O Se are mighty shields against that kind of paranoia. And now Rory McIlroy joins them as another happy example of Brecht's belief that "To be good while yet surviving/Split me like lightning into two people".
The champion golfer is not the first to be a bit lost in Anglo-Irish identity limbo, writes John-Paul McCarthy
irishindependent.ie
RORY McIlroy may not know it, but in his quandary about his future Olympic allegiance, he joins a noble lineage.
Should he hoist the green, white and gold while gazing up at the Cristo Redentor statue in Rio in 2016, or celebrate victory with a Union Jack?
Tough call for a citizen of the revamped Northern Ireland, a place whose title deeds explicitly "recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both."
For some reason last week, McIlroy's sojourn in a happy identity limbo reminded me of Niall Toibin, another denizen of that special Anglo-Irish no-man's land.
When I was a child, we would always drive to Ballyheigue in Kerry for the summer holidays, the small sandy village flanking the Atlantic swell where James Anthony Froude liked to hike and where Roger Casement came a cropper.
Just as we cleared Killarney and bore down hard on the road to Tralee -- home of the Aquadome and assorted pound shops -- my parents would always play a tape of Toibin's live shows.
To this day I'm transfixed by his poise and his timing, as well as by his insistence on the absolute antithesis between comedy and self-pity.
I see his stand-up act now as a series of meditations on the varieties of the emigrant experience. Toibin told stories about the 'Dagenham Yanks' from Blackpool in Cork city, hardened labourers who had to search abroad for the dignity denied them at home.
With that arch disdain of his for the merely sentimental, Toibin also told tales of poorer devils who did only marginally better across the channel, and ended up haunting William Hill's betting shops or drinking cans in Kilburn, the type of life beautifully rendered on TG4 last year in Colm Meaney's Kings of the Kilburn High Road.
Toibin's darker asides about the unthinking racism of the Cockney hard-chargers or the bitterness that often infected those who stayed home were always filtered, and thus controlled through personal experience.
RTE dumped him at the first tap-tap of the episcopal crozier in the Seventies and he fled to English television as a grateful orphan.
He wrote movingly about his indebtedness to Channel 4 and UTV in his memoir, Smile and Be a Villain, as well as his sense of having been betrayed by Montrose after years of quality work in Irish and English.
He had no problems finding his stride in England after 1977 because "for 20 years I have been semi-detached, a foot on either side of the Irish Sea".
Toibin played Slipper in The Irish RM alongside Peter Bowles as Major Yates.
Like Rory McIlroy, Toibin confessed to being a bit lost by the whole Anglo-Irish thing.
He found the Somerville and Ross books bittersweet and ambiguous, and said he always remembered one particular snippet of the dialogue years after hanging up his (filthy) cap as Slipper the hound-keeper.
The dialogue is an exchange between the major's wife Philippa and Slipper as they dance the night away at the Servants' Ball.
Slipper: "Didn't the major do very well, all the same, and him an Englishman?"
Philippa: "Maybe a bit too English, Mr O'Mahoney?"
Slipper: "No. There's nothing we dislike more than an Englishman pretending to be Irish. The English are the English and the Irish are the Irish, and they understand each other like the fox and the hound."
Philippa: "And which is the fox, Mr O'Mahoney, and which the hound?"
Slipper: "Ah now, Ma'am, sure if we knew that, we'd know everything."
This edgy exchange quarters contentedly with Toibin's tough-minded humanism.
Other people of that generation registered the complexity of the Anglo-Irish relationship in a more basic idiom.
One of the best emigrant memoirs from the Gaeltacht is Maidhc Dainin O Se's A Thig Na Tit Orm from 1987, an unadorned and powerful account of his journey from the semi-feudal scarcities of the Carrachan area of the Kerry Gaeltacht to Sears Roebuck in the Chicago of Adlai Stevenson and Saul Bellow.
O Se was grateful to London for a very simple reason; it provided him with regular wages and the price of his airplane ticket to America.
He recalled two immortal words of advice from his first few days in Woodgreen. Number one was "Tugtar Pat ar gach Eireannach" -- every Irishman is called Pat -- and number two; "Sex is the religion in this country, my boy."
He never looked back.
This kind of flux and easy mixing wasn't always the stuff of public celebration in Ireland though.
A large part of Patrick Pearse's slow-burning hysteria came from the fact that his father was English.
Brian Friel's influential play Translations saw cultural mixing as a euphemism for confrontation and violence.
And Friel's Field Day colleague, the poet Tom Paulin, used a book about the great British radical William Hazlitt to opine about "the complex self-disgust that can afflict those who exist on the interface between two cultural identities".
Friel and Paulin were tipping their hats here to the Palestinian academic Edward Said and his bleak attack on the "supine malleability" of those who identify with two homelands.
Toibin and O Se are mighty shields against that kind of paranoia. And now Rory McIlroy joins them as another happy example of Brecht's belief that "To be good while yet surviving/Split me like lightning into two people".
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