Irish Sports
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11 Jun 12
02:42
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06 Jun 09
what can u say about Ireland? lets face it, we were under dogs anyway but what frustrates me the most is that why THE **** cant we play football like the spanish , dutch or germans?(forget the english, theyre ****ing muck!). seriously, why must we put up with this **** ****ing football team (with all due respect)? why are the spanish / dutch etc SO MUCH ****ing better than us? are they some sort of genetically enhanced humans like spiderman? ill answer that, NO THEY ARE ****ING NOT! why cant we train our future superstars to play the beautiful game instead of the garbage we are forced to except as the best we can possibly achieve that is our national team?
i dont blame our current players, lets face it, had we beaten croatia 5-0 we still wouldnt be good enough the win the euros so why should we accept the next win as the best we can do? why are spain player for player better than island? why THE **** cant we compete on a level playing field to this ****ing countries? i hope to god someday the FAI wake up, send some competent coaches and personal to the likes of la masia and the rest of the thriving institutions on the continent and see what the **** they are doing and instill the same principles here in ireland and then maybe someday we will be able to see our talented youngsters blossom and their natural ability and skills encouraged instead of promoting this negative garbage that we are forced to watch and ACCEPT as the absolute limit of our ability. its an absolute farce the standard of football we are forced to accept in this country, their is not aspirations to change the philosophy and the way we play the game, we will NEVER win any meaningful competition the way we play the game and yet on the off chance we reach the quarters or even out of the group stage of an international competition, the whole country goes delirious yet we should be trying and EXPECTING so much more. again i say, with some knowledge and know how, there is NO REASON why our current 5 and 6 yr olds shouldnt be competing at the absolute highest level and holding their own in the international game yet we will continue to produce these substandard players that are content with mediocrity instead of actually believing they can win the whole thing KNOWING they have been given the tools to do so!!
yours sincerely, slightly pissed (and pissed off) irish fan that cant comprehend why we cant produce world class players like our counterparts on the continent.
i dont blame our current players, lets face it, had we beaten croatia 5-0 we still wouldnt be good enough the win the euros so why should we accept the next win as the best we can do? why are spain player for player better than island? why THE **** cant we compete on a level playing field to this ****ing countries? i hope to god someday the FAI wake up, send some competent coaches and personal to the likes of la masia and the rest of the thriving institutions on the continent and see what the **** they are doing and instill the same principles here in ireland and then maybe someday we will be able to see our talented youngsters blossom and their natural ability and skills encouraged instead of promoting this negative garbage that we are forced to watch and ACCEPT as the absolute limit of our ability. its an absolute farce the standard of football we are forced to accept in this country, their is not aspirations to change the philosophy and the way we play the game, we will NEVER win any meaningful competition the way we play the game and yet on the off chance we reach the quarters or even out of the group stage of an international competition, the whole country goes delirious yet we should be trying and EXPECTING so much more. again i say, with some knowledge and know how, there is NO REASON why our current 5 and 6 yr olds shouldnt be competing at the absolute highest level and holding their own in the international game yet we will continue to produce these substandard players that are content with mediocrity instead of actually believing they can win the whole thing KNOWING they have been given the tools to do so!!
yours sincerely, slightly pissed (and pissed off) irish fan that cant comprehend why we cant produce world class players like our counterparts on the continent.
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well this is an easy 1 to answer...if the Irish league doesn't get stronger we will only go so far in the International game...and lets face it this is never ever gonna change as we seem 2b pre-occupied as a nation at throwing money at clubs across the water while the league at home struggles to survive.
Croatia are the perfect example. Their population is practically the same as us, they are not exactly floating in money also simlar to us, yet look how much stronger their domestic league is. Bet football fans there are not throwing their money at clubs outside the country. |
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i cringe everytime i see the cries on twitter and the forums from thousands upon thousands of people wanting mcclean to start or come on as sub all cos they have seen him do the biz 4 sunderland on Tv in the prem for the past few months...these are the same thousands of people who when he was playing in their country, down the road from them or wotever, they had no fookin idea who the lad was even when he was setting it on fire.
Also makes me sick to see matches from around the continent, from countries far poorer than us, in leagues simlar in standard to ours, or even worse in some cases and you see crowds of 10s of thousands at them. |
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because whilst huge numbers buy english football shirts, very few actually have any love for the game, will contribute to it a local level or play at youth level when at school.
It just isn't popular enough and majority of youngsters wont give it the dedication necessary to make the grade. Lets be honest, its behind GAA and rugby as far as popularity is concerned |
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A very poor Irish team, in fact there are no stars on show atm. Duff was crap last nite and after he kept giving the ball away, or giving hospital passes to his team mates I was sure he would be hauled off. How he lasted 90 mins is beyond me. Trap is too loyal and set in his ways. He should have blooded our young stars in the last few months, but he is too senile to listen to the Irish public, or to change. Trap has done a great job getting us there with a very limited squad, but he could have put out a better line up last night. The performance against Hungary last week was terrible, and anyone surprised at the 3-1 scoreline last night is wearing green tinted glasses. I thing we will score one more goal in the next 2 games and it will be against Italy. My predictions are Spain 3-0, Italy 4-1.
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Keane was even worse. A terrible performance that capped a wasted (football wise) career.
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though he is imho a pretty average player anyway no matter what career choices he made
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Jesus, peoples negativity here is horrific. We lost 3-1 to the 8th ranked team in the world it's not exactly a shock.
Croatia are the perfect example. Their population is practically the same as us, they are not exactly floating in money also simlar to us, yet look how much stronger their domestic league is. If we were a one sport nation we could have a team similar enough to Croatia. How many Croat players play in the Croat league? 3 all for Dinamo Zagreb who have won the last 6 league titles, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for that league. Lets be honest, its behind GAA and rugby as far as popularity is concerned In terms of people playing it is miles ahead of Rugby. A big difference is you don't need huge numbers playing Rugby to be competitive at the top level, i.e. New Zealand or Wales. he is too senile to listen to the Irish public, or to change. People like Alex Ferguson don't listen to fans and they get on fine because by and large fans are thick and biased towards certain players and a certain style of play this team can't produce. Trapattoni Keane was even worse. A terrible performance that capped a wasted (football wise) career. I don't like him but he has clearly had a pretty damn good career at both international and club level. We have two more games to play and you would like to think the doomsayers would wait till then. |
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i guess deep down i didnt expect us to beat croatia anyway but the basic principle of my post is that i simply cant comprehend why ireland or any other country with a decent population and facilities to use cannot produce players to match the level of brazil, spain, holland germany. im simply not willing accept that its because 'we only have 4 million people' and the usual BS u hear.
i dont blame this current team, they are limited but thats my point, why are they ALL so limited? its the training the received. its because of the way they were thought to play the game from a grassroots level. its not difficult, send people to spain, holland etc and see what these countries are doing with their youngsters and copy them, thats it! thats the only way we will ever compete at the highest level. as i said it wouldnt have even matter had we won 5-0 last night (as great as that wouldve been) because WE CANT WIN THIS COMPETITION and the way we play, we will never be good enough and its difficult for me to comprehend why then do we continue to teach and play the way we do, incred! |
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ilikewavingatbuses
''its because of the way they were thought to play the game from a grassroots level.'' ^Thats the answer to why we are simply not good enough. It all comes down to the above. Assessing last night's game, very disappointing, we were totally disjointed from start to finish, midfield was non-existent and we never threatened them once. We gifted them to soft goals, the first one was a real blow you cannot concede a goal like that in international football its not acceptable. Given was off the pace so was Dunne, he appeared to be carrying an injury?? All we can do is look on to Thursday, hopefully Italy and Croatia will draw and you never know! We might get a draw against Spain and take Italy!! Keep the faith! |
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im simply not willing accept that its because 'we only have 4 million people' and the usual BS u hear.
The small population and competition with the GAA are massive disadvantages 2010 Spain: population 46m - soccer no.1 sport 2008 Spain: population 46m - soccer no.1 sport 2006 Italy: population 60m - soccer no.1 sport 2004 Greece: population 11m - not sure about popularity 2002 Brazil: population 190m - soccer no.1 sport 2000 France: population 65m - soccer no.1 sport 1998 France: population 65m - soccer no.1 sport 1996 Germany: population 80m - soccer no.1 sport 1994 Brazil: population 190m - soccer no.1 sport 1992 Denmark: population 5.5m not sure about popularity So in the last 20 years, only Denmark has won a major championship with a population of less than 10m people. Soccer in Ireland also has to compete with GAA for sporting talent in this country I do agree that the whole footballing philosophy has to change in order to produce good players. IMO too many people (mainly fathers of kids) put too much emphasis on winning the local U10 league instead of focusing more on the basic skills of the game. Competition at a young age only results in winning being more important than technique. My young lad is 7 and he starts competitive soccer in September. Up to now it has all been about drills and technique etc but come September it will all be about winning the league. |
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http://www.thecoachdiary.com/about/
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heres hoping thefly.
u are of course right db, the fact that football is the no1 sport in these much larger countries will always be a factor but i still dont understand why we dont try to play the game the way they do anyway. i mean ireland cant pass the ball, thats it, our international players dont possess the necessary skills to actually competantly pass a ball from player to player without the opposition winning it back v easily and then keeping it. and this is often against even the weakest of teams. i find this extraordinary that nobody wants to try to fix this. |
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Meant to also say that in most countries in Europe soccer is played in school
In Ireland, GAA is given preference in primary schools, in the vast majority of cases. |
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thats awesome ty db.
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In the past , North and South , we produced some world class players . Most of them came from urban backgrounds where there was not the competition from other sports ( GAA and rugby ) and they learnt to play in the streets largely .
Competitive soccer for a 7 year old is bonkers , part of the reason the soccer scene is the way it is . Everything is geared to getting to England , the local scene is guaged irrelevant except as a stepping stone for some . The overall world standards make it very difficult to progress , and world rankings etc and aspirations make it like coping with quicksand . Sometimes the harder you struggle , the quicker you sink . Particularly when you factor in the media focus and comparisons . Ireland did well to qualify , think it should be left at that , and hopefully some lessons will be learned from competing at the highest levels . Did not see last nights game overall , but any time I passed the telly Ireland seemed to be under pressure . You cant play if you cant get hold of the ball . |
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Unfortunately last night's result was inevitable against far classier opposition and, bar a miracle, we'll be the whipping boys against Spain and Italy.
We have excelled before with our backs to the wall but where's that inspiration going to come from? we have just too many old or mediocre players on the pitch. In many ways last night was no different to any game we played in the last two years except last night we were the king with no clothes. Any sensible manager would frame a team around the premiership players yet we fall out with them, leave them at home or subject them to humiliation on the bench. As to why we are as we are-here's my theory: I played soccer at a good enough level as a teenager and into my early twenties playing for a team that won an FAI Junior Cup years later. I was unusual in that I loved soccer yet all those from my socio-economic background played GAA or, if they had the silver spoon, rugby in clongowes, blackrock before coming home at weekends to join forces with the local farmers' sons. I once told my school GAA teacher to overlook me for the gaelic team (I hated it) and I never played soccer for the school again after that perceived slight. Coaching was non-existent in those days and I eventually gave up as I felt out on a limb as none of my friends played soccer. There was only so far dedication would bring you. My guess is things have changed little: the modern, local soccer coaches are still relatively uneducated and inarticulate and there is no sense that the middle class play the game in the numbers that premier league support would suggest they should. This may be non_PC but rugby thrives because it can attract cash in large quantities and the standard of intellect amongst coach, player and manager is far superior to what you have here in soccer. Delaney gives the impression of being a gravy-trainer and wouldn't instil confidence to improve things any time soon. I also suspect the FAI hierarchy is as provincial as ever and nothing is changing there soon. European players, coaches and managers are a breed apart compared to the English/Irish counterparts if you compare Wenger to Hodgson or Van Persie to Terry. Without properly educated and paid coaches you have nothing. |
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db1974
11 Jun 12 10:09 I do agree that the whole footballing philosophy has to change in order to produce good players. IMO too many people (mainly fathers of kids) put too much emphasis on winning the local U10 league instead of focusing more on the basic skills of the game. Competition at a young age only results in winning being more important than technique. My young lad is 7 and he starts competitive soccer in September. Up to now it has all been about drills and technique etc but come September it will all be about winning the league. completely agree with the above sentiments. Most kids are playing competitive football from an early age and are more motivated by fear of making mistakes than by the joy of doing something creative and this leads to technically average adult players. It is completely dispiriting to watch football in Ireland at underage level with its emphasis on tactics and winning matches and little attention to development of fundamental football skills |
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im simply not willing accept that its because 'we only have 4 million people' and the usual BS u hear.
Well why not as shown above it's the obvious problem. Brazil get plaudits on how they play the game but Brazil is the population of England,France,Spain and Portugal combined, demographically they are younger as well. The best example of a smaller nation excelling is Uruguay, they get to play regularly against top opposition in qualifiers in South America. Uruguay have played many tournaments where they have not played pretty stuff but indeed kick lumps out of opponents. Yes we produced some world class players over the 70s and 80s but they were often in isolation and playing in some awful teams who did nothing. Qualifying for a Euro's is a first step. Ireland qualified via play off and are playing in a competition which unlike the World Cup does not afford easy group games, we are not playing the likes of Saudi Arabia or Cameroon this time round. |
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squigs i appreciate that we will always find it tougher to find as much talent as the larger countries and your points are valid but why must we be forced to watch a poor standard of football where we arent even capable of holding on to the ball? thats not a population problem, thats a problem deep rooted in the way the players are taught how to play the game!
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what about holland? what are they doing? how are they so good given their limited supply of people.
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Holland has 4 times the population of Ireland. Dutch sports facilities and coaching are at another level to Irelands though I agree.
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have to agree with the opening post. One of the first internationals I saw was against Turkey when we beat them 5 nil back in the 70's. While they have improved in their technique and athleticism we have basically stuck with the same brand of football.We have relatively small footballers and yet we lump it up to them. And do you know what? most football fans are sick of it. Go to any international and the atmosphere is woeful. We start off singing and cheering but the actual football dampens things down unless there is the odd goal.
Sure we like to win and get to major championships but if we are going to be as embarrassingly bad as last night is it worth it? We need to foster talented players. When Sephen Ireland became about the tenth player to fall out with Don givens the FAI's media buddies never questioned the management but harried the player instead. James McCarthy stayed home but would our best midfield prospect have done so if he knew he was going to start ? As for people not supporting the League of Ireland they dont go because it is very poor. The standard of the actual football needs to improve and with the very limited coaches and managers available it doesnt look like getting better any time soon. Which is a pity . Nortern Irelan are 103rd in the world rankings between Sudan and Guyana and there is no reason why we cant start a slide which brings us down with the dead men unless we institute progressive policies. |
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football is a philosophy for the best coaches: if brendan rodgers can get a team playing as swansea did then there is some hope that better "systems" can be imposed on teams.
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coaching, small sided games with no more than 3 players on each team, everyone gets more of the ball and their technique improves. It isn't rocket science, the difference between an Irish and a Spanish player is that the Spaniard has had literally millions of touches of the football whereas we plough on with however many turn up to training, divide them up and play one big game. It's a touch game.
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[b]This may be non_PC but rugby thrives because it can attract cash in large quantities and the standard of intellect amongst coach, player and manager is far superior to what you have here in soccer. Delaney gives the impression of being a gravy-trainer and wouldn't instil confidence to improve things any time soon. I also suspect the FAI hierarchy is as provincial as ever and nothing is changing there soon. European players, coaches and managers are a breed apart compared to the English/Irish counterparts if you compare Wenger to Hodgson or Van Persie to Terry.
Without properly educated and paid coaches you have nothing. If your theory is correct, U.C.D. would win the League every year. That is the most ridiculous statement I have read in a long time. |
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Think he means at underage level
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apologies for my profanities, i dont want them to detract from my post, i had a few jars on me at the time and that performance just tipped me over the edge tbh.
just dont understand how the FAI are happy to accept this level on competency from our national and see that a RADICAL reform is required at all levels (esp grassroots), its actually depressing just thinking about the fact that they dont see a problem with how our country plays football, whether we have a population of 50 of 50 million. |
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and yes nobody dies, there are more important things going on in the world but if we are going to have a football team , why not train them properly using the best training focusing on a style of football that clearly thrives instead of using players that dont have the ability to string 2 passes together.
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Despite what the song says it is possible to beat the irish
 whats more we even help the Croatias to do it. |
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They don't play Hurling in Spain or Croatia.
They don't play Gaelic Football in Spain or Croatia They don't play Rugby in Spain or Croatia |
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SRY LADS BUT..... / THE irish players are honest but lack talent ...You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear .
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whilst there is some truth, who knows what could become of our team had they actually been trained differently?
would iniesta have become the players they are had they grown up in the irish system? not a chance. |
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and xavi*
or any other spanish french, italian midfielders, take your pick, they are all superior to our lads and year in year out for decades they have been producing better players. as i said it doesnt matter if we only have a small % playing football, its the way its TAUGHT thats the problem. why cant we teach our youngsters to play a different style of football? a style where u hold the ball, are comfortable on the ball, can pass the ball and move to space where u can then receive the ball again,our players cant do this, none of them. as a unit there is absoltely no creativity, nothing. why are people happy to blame the fact that we have a smaller population? this is not an excuse, all u need is a willing player who has some natural talent and harness that talent from a very young age, by the time theyre 18 they will pass the ball like any other team ive mentioned. of course there will be other factors along the way which are simply out of our control, certain levels of ability, you cant just create leo messi but why extinguish any natural talent our youngsters might have with outdated techniques that simply dont work. |
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they are products of their environment and how they were trained.
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Soccer pitches are not ploughed in the middle of the night in Greece, Croatia or Denmark either!
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indeed neill, thats exactly my point, time to change the enviroment here i feel.
will it ever happen? of course not. deeply depressing for me as i just love to watch good football and see no reason why my countrymen cant move to that higher level simply by changing the philosophy. |
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a fair point rocketfingers, our pitches arent exactly conducive to the 'beautiful game' but i would be happy if we just tackled the main problem first.
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We qualify our first tournament in 10 years and we should all of a sudden be producing players of the quality of France,Spain and Germany. We are minnows compared to these countries we just have to face a bit of reality here. It's a numbers game and we have less numbers. Small sided games do work and will be used more in the future anyway, this isn't new but to see the results for the national team will be years away.
Look at the Rugby players, Brian O'Driscoll isn't a product of a system, he came unexpectedly and wasn't sure of his game at senior cup for Blackrock. He has matured into one of the best players Rugby has seen in the past 15 years and the IRFU get the credit for it but it wasn't a master plan. He got through the system through luck. |
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squigs i said our current team ARE NOT to blame, it aint their fault their spanish/italian/dutch counterparts have been getting a far superior 'education' since they were nippers. but i am saying i feel things need to change at grassroots level NOW and maybe in 20 years we will have a team of players that can compete against anyone and maybe even win one of these tournaments.
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