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Last summer, i did many bets with Stanjames on my online a/c, totalling a few grand, over the course of 3-4 months. However, the money was never taken for these deposits at the time from my bank a/c, something I, and stanjames, only noticed months later. In November, they issued took the money from my bank a/c, and fraudulently (so my bank says) withdrew the funds for ALL the prior deposits in one fell swoop, with no warning or notice given. My bank, AIB, said that this was illegal behaviour and applied for the chargeback on my behalf, and within a week, I got all my funds back. Howver, I am just after receiving a letter, 6 months later, warning me I have an outstanding balance on my Stanjames a/c and if I do not deposit to settle it or ring them to organise a repayment schedule, they will begin debt collection proceedings against me. As I understand it, the fault which caused the error (and many many people I know had the same thing happen to them for smaller amounts), was with Stanjames/Betpack and not the fault of the bank. Can anyone more informed than me about gaming law help me out and tell me of I am liable to repay the funds to this gibraltar-based firm or who I should contact to discuss this, because I don't trust this rancid outfit (stanjames/betpack) to act lawfully or morally given their previous behaviour. To read about some others affected by this, have a look at this thread. http://community.betfair.com/irish_sports/go/thread/view/94110/28693797/deposit-query?post_id=512937883#512937883
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The legal position is gambling debts are not reclaimable by law,they may try and claim this was a banking error but the fact is these are gambling debts,now the moral position is entirely different and down to each individual.
Not sure of the legalities of it, although there were threads on this before, such as the one you attached.
However are you saying that you did not notice that a few grand had been taken from your account? That is a nice position to be in at this time. It looks as though they acted fraudulently and this might strengthen any argument that you have with them. I also would be doubtful that these debts are enforceable, but again, I do not know the legalities.
Would you have paid the debts if they had written to you about it before they withdrew money from your account? Or are you simply now trying to avoid paying for bets that you placed, now that an opportunity has arisen to do so?
However are you saying that you did not notice that a few grand had been taken from your account? That is a nice position to be in at this time. It looks as though they acted fraudulently and this might strengthen any argument that you have with them. I also would be doubtful that these debts are enforceable, but again, I do not know the legalities.
Would you have paid the debts if they had written to you about it before they withdrew money from your account? Or are you simply now trying to avoid paying for bets that you placed, now that an opportunity has arisen to do so?
I'm more interested how ye got a couple of grand on online with that shower 
wildmanfromborneo 08 May 12 13:08
The legal position is gambling debts are not reclaimable by law,they may try and claim this was a banking error but the fact is these are gambling debts,now the moral position is entirely different and down to each individual.
this isn't in fact the case - The Gambling Commission in the UK and it's associated legislation make gambling debts recoverable. Gibraltar has it's own commission but my understanding is that it all but mirrors UK
The legal position is gambling debts are not reclaimable by law,they may try and claim this was a banking error but the fact is these are gambling debts,now the moral position is entirely different and down to each individual.
this isn't in fact the case - The Gambling Commission in the UK and it's associated legislation make gambling debts recoverable. Gibraltar has it's own commission but my understanding is that it all but mirrors UK
Thanks for the replies. When I said I never noticed the money had not been withdrawn, I was referring to the fact that the money was not leaving my a/c through the multiple deposits over the summer. I instantly noticed when they withdrew the lump some in november. The largest single deposit was 200-300 euro. I may have repaid the money initially if they had requested, depending on whose side the law was on, but the way they swiped the money in one lump sum with no notice, months later, and the way their customer service team behaved in terms of keeping me informed, has left me no desire to repay them if legally possible. AIB informed me the fault was not with them, and they were given no notice of the withdrawal. They told me a company has 30 days to process a deposit and claim it from the bank a/c and if it is done after this time it is fraudulent.
I'm assuming the poster is Irish.If so the Gambling Commission rules do not apply.
What a load of old cobblers this is.The bottom line is that you had bets and they lost and now you dont want to pay them,it is irrelevant whether the money was taken out at the correct time and by the correct method.In effect you are attempting to make the bets void,i wonder would you be so keen to do same if they had been winners.
Exact same thing happened me aerobicengine at the same time last year. I contacted Stan james directly when similarly they took money from my bank account without any notice. This was their official response...Stan james never processed any Irish laser payments for a lengthy period of time (possibly as long as 6 months) and only noticed when a customer rang up to query why they had not taken the money from his bank account. The total amount involved was in the region of €250k according to the stan james customer service manager i spoke with (scottish fella, forget his name). I had genuinely not noticed that the two transactions had not been processed by my bank at the time but had no problem paying the amount as after investigating I found it was owed but the issue I had at the time was and still is that they processed the payment without notice and tried to the blame the bank for the mistake. I contacted the bank they blamed stan james.
I'm in the same boat as valdozelo. The issue I have is that SJ blamed the bank and the money that they withdrew from my account put my account in a cash negative situation when I don't have an Overdraft facility, which triggered a further charge from AIB. The way they treated their customers was nothing disgraceful and then they had the gall to lie about what they had done. I let it go at the time (didn't realise that there was any recourse as I did place the bets in good faith), but I'm glad they're struggling to claim back all the money.
The same thing happened me i'm pretty sure although i think they may have taken off the existing balance i had in my account, i'm not sure but this rings a bell. I have to agree with Robo though if you've placed the bets you should pay.
They are scumbags and i wouldnt pay them a penny,let them chase you for it if they choose to but its not worth the hassle for them over whats a relatively small amount compared what it would cost them to issue recovery proceedings.
Personally, i would pay up and angle for a free bet.
fact remains - they will cloes you down sooner rather than later
shower of *******
fact remains - they will cloes you down sooner rather than later
shower of *******
Just to let ye know lads, have done a bit of research over the last day or two on this. If they went into your bank a/c, you were certainly entitled to a chargeback, if they took the money after more than 30 days from the time of the transaction. Your AIB bank should tell assist you with this if you ask them, not sure if it would still apply this far after the event but it's worth researching. Same thing happened with me, stanjames blamed bank, bank blamed aib. Given that i used the same card for multiple other bookies without fault, i always believed aib and not stanjames. I also spoke to the scottish guy in customer services who was fairly soun, but when i questioned him why they didn't warn us of the impending withdrawal, he offered no explanation. As far as i understand, once the chargeback has gone through, and stanjames puts your a/c into negative balance, they have no legal basis under which to recover the money in Irish courts, with them based in gibraltar. In this situation it's a matter of choice on the punter's behalf, and I wouldn't blame anyone, given this firm's conduct and pathetic limiting policy of any winning a/c, if they refused to pay back the funds.
i was the one who started the original thread on this as it happened to me last year.i got my money back through a chargeback but apparantly there are loads of customers out there who were affected who dont know they could have claimed their money back
Sid James bookie by the sounds of it, best to ask Rico, he nose a lot about most betting disputes and the Law.
The bookies have consistently avoided any attempts to regulate them , they just want to formulate "rules" which suit them rather than the punter .
Anyone who can beat them at their own game is welcome to try .
Moral issues are two sided . If invoked , jesuitical arguments would be interesting .
Anyone who can beat them at their own game is welcome to try .
Moral issues are two sided . If invoked , jesuitical arguments would be interesting .
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