Minsk

Sometimes you click on a thread and wish you hadn't - what a waste of ink you are.

The real deal I'd have thought if one is believe the schooling reports. On the basis of the Ces the engine is there and a horse has to stay well to win the Triumph, wins this en route to Cheltenham victory.

Dessie can't train a winner at the moment.

And his poor youngster Richard has copped a right ban in India not ending till the end of April. He got it for not obeying the trainers instructions.

. . . his poor youngster Richard . . .

Now that is funny soapp!

4/7F on here must trade bigger in play. Hughes stable big worry too!

Im really tempted to lay this one big.
I dont see whats so special about this horse at all.

agreed moneypenny

Hughes horses out of form big time im a layer

Running in a Grade 2 first time out might be asking too much, unless of course he is the real deal. Anyone who backs him is backing potential rather than form and at 4/7 he is way too skinny.

How the ban came about that Hughsie got in India is priceless, failed to obey trainers instructions..... A steward stands listening to the orders that trainer gives to jockey, and if these said orders are not carried out then trouble for the Jockey....... now if this rule was in play here in Ireland....and if you were the steward who would you like to be listening to ?
AJ Martin
AP oBrien

an astonishing price for the horse really , today and for the triumph.

must be the next kauto star.

anyone backing this on the back of positive schooling reports at 4/7 gl to them

1.65 now just a school for tis lad, get on

oops

Looks like Dessie 4got to school him, looking hard at those obstacles....oops Barryo a dear one

Run him in the Cross Country

backers need their heads examined at that price!

wd layers!

Once again a TALKING horse gets hammered.  Looked very one paced.  Cooper wasn't hard on him.  Will never win the Triumph.  Not enough speed for 2 miles over hurdles.

Slow as a boat

Hughes did say he'd nearly have to win today to go to the festival, he didn't so I presume its Punchestown then?.

I'm always sceptical and try to read through the lines of what a trainer says, they're after all renowned for been conservative with the truth, its fair to say if Minsk had got a harder race he almost certainly would've prevailed, and its also fair to say the horse was left with plenty to work on, he was hardly going to be at peak condition with the guts of 3 weeks still to go to the Triumph.

Wouldn't surprise me as the race draws nearer that somebody starts nibbling away at the now much more generous odds that are now available on the horse for the race.

Of course I could be totally wrong?, but you learn not except everything at face value when it comes to horse racing.

he was quite promising i thought, didnt jump particularly well but obv has an engine and a faster run race will suit but he was always gonna disappoint if he didnt win by 10 eased down unfortunately! u couldnt rule him out but his price for today and the triumph without jumping in public was astonishing!

Goes to Cheltenham

Cheers guys, ilwab I'd say the money today was not inside money but members of the public anticipating a demolition job and a bookie hatchet job, as you know it doesn't take much of an excuse for bookies to shorten the sh!t out of a horse.

does hughes say hed go the chelt? he must of told people to lump on so itd be a pity if he didnt go

I was disappointed with him on the run in.  Looked very once paced with no gear change.

JCB Triumph Hurdle favourite Minsk suffered a surprise defeat on his hurdling debut at Fairyhouse.

Dessie Hughes' charge was sent off as the 4-6 market leader for the Winning Fair Juvenile Hurdle and travelled strongly for a long way.

However turning in it was clear he had a battle on his hooves with Burrenbridge Lodge alongside two out.

That more experienced rival was fluent at the last two obstacles and that proved crucial as he was driven out to score by a neck from the market leader and fast-finishing Bat Masterson.

Sky Bet pushed Minsk out to 16-1 for the JCB Triumph Hurdle on the back of this defeat.

Minsk's owner, Barry Connell, said: "I'll still let him take his chance in the Triumph and that will be his only other run over hurdles."

Hughes added: "I thought we had him (Burrenbridge Lodge) covered at the last but he looked at it. If he had pinged the last I think he would have won.

"I wouldn't use the ground as an excuse as none of them would have really liked it. I'm happy and disappointed."

thanks. I think the current price is value then. jockey was clearly told not to go hard on it and he looked like a winner for most of the way.

I backed it at 21 after the race - i must be one of the few who thought it was a decent enough debut

"I'm happy and disappointed"

Typical trainer, if he said I was bitterly disappointed or I was reasonably happy with the run as we left plenty to work on you might get a better read on things, as it is ambiguity rules, you're left second guessing as usual as to what connections really feel.

On a side note, the fast finishing Bat Masterson?, ahem! did you mean the rallying Bat Masterson?.

Did not jump with any fluency, and was constantly looking at the hurdles, Barryo should have given it to DKW as he could win decent flat pots with it.... I be amazed if he won a Triumph..........wont get near the fluent and quick jumping Grumett imho

he goes back to oxx for the summer i think.

Good.......thats good Mitch

grumeti does look the one to beat imo.


can a horse win the triumph or any festival race on effectively its 2nd start? cant help thinking even if he had the ability, the lack of experience would be his downfall! hes a more reasonable price now if u fancy him atleast!

as i said, hes a fine prospect and if u take the hype away, he ran a stormer, if he jumped the last he'd have won.

Zarkander last year only had the one run over hurdles ilwab.

zarkandar won the triumph on his second start.

snap

snap mitch!

Yes lads but Zarkander jumped super, quick clean and fast in his first run........ oh and he was trained by PN

agreed. i wouldn't fancy minsk but i suppose it wouldnt be a huge surprise if he won either.

is that right silver, i did not know that! the funny thing is had the horse been a head better than it was today, the mood would be different. his price would be shorter than it is now and people would be more optimistic about his chances, 'he'll come on a ton for the run' etc... its an interesting game isnt it, the smallest margins often have great signifance and yet if u really look at the full picture they dont at all.

seriously , what price would he be had he been a head better today? 7-8/1? 2ns or 3rd fav.

he can win the race on raw ability, i would be worried about his jumping but today wasnt run to suit, a faster pace will see him in better light but will also put pay to his chances if he hits one or two. he can still win the triumph imo. gl if youre on.

Jay I don't think he jumped all that bad today the odd sketchy jump.

Cheltenham they usually go like the clappers sometimes a horse can jump better because its given its head a lot earlier, you've no choice!. You can ride a waiting race at Cheltenham around midway through, try taking a Paul Carberry pull early on and you could find yourself out with the washing before you know it, because the fast pace will usually sort out the men from the boys, the dirt will fall away and if you're still on the bridle and didn't leave yourself a mountain to climb you can stalk you're way into the race.

But having said that I'm a great believer of a horse been ridden just off the pace at Cheltenham and if you're good enough at least you're close enough to be good enough.

slow jumper i thought, as ilwab says a faster run race will suit.  i thought he ran in snatches though and would not be surprised if he was there abouts in the triumph, just needs to jump quicker and more confidently.

He needs to do a million things. What was clear yesterday was that he didn't have the class to get past on the run in. There was time even after he'd stopped to take detailed notes of the last hurdle. It's been mentioned that Zarkandar won after one trial and Alderbrook won the champion off one trial. Horses can do that with class and a turn of foot. Minsk showed neither yesterday and with his jumping I can see why the owner says his next hurdle race is his last. I'm surprised he's considering another one but I guess they're trying to save face.

Former JCB Triumph Hurdle favourite Minsk will miss Cheltenham after he was found to have an infection when beaten on his jumping debut at Fairyhouse on Saturday.

As a result, trainer Dessie Hughes and owner Barry Connell have decided to pull the plug on Minsk's hurdling programme for this season.

The four-year-old will probably not run again until towards the end of the Flat season, when he will return to the John Oxx stable, for whom he won the Irish Cesarewitch in impressive fashion last autumn.

The four-year-old will then go back to Hughes to resume his career as a novice over hurdles.

"He was a bit disappointing so we had him scoped when we got home and found he has an inflamed throat. It's the start of an infection," said Hughes.

"His lungs were clean, but he's starting to get a cold and the vet said there's no way he could finish the race with that.

"We had scoped him on Wednesday after work and he scoped clean. It's a tough old game.

"He can't go to Cheltenham now. He has to go on antibiotics and it will take a good two weeks to clear it up.

"There's no way he can get to the Triumph Hurdle, unfortunately. I'd say we'd leave him now and keep him as a novice for next season.

"I'd say he'd go back and run on the Flat in the autumn in a couple of races and then go hurdling.

"The owner has made up his mind and that makes sense to me."

Minsk had been at the top of the Triumph betting at around 6-1 before he had jumped a hurdle in public on the strength of his good Flat form and reports of his excellent schooling at home.

However, he was surprisingly beaten on his eagerly-awaited debut, albeit by a neck, by Burrenbridge Lodge.

But Hughes felt Minsk would have won had he jumped the final flight cleaner despite being under the weather.

"If he'd have jumped the last quicker on Saturday he'd probably have won anyway," the County Kildare-based handler added.





Oh well

What a complete and utter disaster for connections.

Could not have made a bigger mess of a this horse if they had tried...i said it on the antepost forum that waiting a few weeks before the festival to make your debut is just not on.

Ruby a complete and utter disaster would be the horse getting killed.

This is a minor setback for a young horse with hopefully years in front of him. Who knows, could be a blessing in disguise.

Spot on Ruby....gave it to the wrong trainer,but they are buddies no doubt......

Does a short priced favourite ever get beat on merit? Or is it always because they have an infection?

Allduck i don't have your view on this one.

This horse had the potential to be a Champion Hurdler, for me he jumped very well on debut considering all. I can't fathom what they were thinking leaving it so late to run in a bog.

Horse will go back to John Oxx and like all Oxx horses he will ekk every bit out of this chap and he be finished come around next years NH. John Oxx has for me in my memory never sold a horse that was in his care that actually went out and did anything under NH Rules. Just look at the purchases of the AGa Khan breds every year by NH Owners and there are completely useless. Bar that Nicholls horse that won the triumph hurdle I cant name one from those particular connections that went on to win anything.

Minsk is a different case but for me he is gone now at the game...especially as he is has the potnetial to make into a very good Flat Horse. Reminds me of Rite of Passage now

You must have a short memory if you can't remember Mourad. They didn't sell her but What A Charm started and later returned to him too. There two that spring to mind and if I thought about it i'm sure i'd come up with a good few more.

Aga Khan bred horses have a long tradition of proving to be useful jumps recruits.

To say that he is gone at the game because he will be going back to Oxx's is an outlandish assertion to me anyway but time will tell.

this thing of constantly scoping horses cant be a help either. if someone shoved a scope down your throat it would be inflamed too.

Mourad....very true but for me that is one diamond out of a lot of very expensive failures.

I just now Oxx will get every last bit of the horse ability out over the summer if we in fact see him again this calender year and the horse wont be able to back up again after having a pretty tough(quality level) over the summer.

He is either a flat horse or a Jumps horse, connections have to make up there minds they cant have it both ways!!!!!!

This is a link for the list Aga Khan horses that have gone through public auction in the last eight years:
http://www.agakhanstuds.com/sale/sale.asp

You'll find a plethora of star names amongst them and that doesn't include the many good horses bought privately.

The trainers obligation is to get the best out of their horses. If Oxx thinks he's a listed class or maybe Group 3 then them races are often much softer to win than a Champion Hurdle (he wouldn't be quick enough for one anyway and will need 2m4f plus over hurdles). He won't wreck the horse anyway. You can bank on that.

Also how does your last point square up with DK Welds training record?

I throw the question back at you Allduck, John Oxx is no D K Weld. and D K Weld despite being a incredible trainer of those sorts of horses has a consistent record of having the horse in its whole career.

Minsk moved to Hughes who has been woeful this season back to Oxx then back to Hughes, can not compare the fluidity of the Weld Operation to the above.

ReimerpYsatnaf Joined: 07 Jun 11
Replies: 7549 26 Feb 12 11:28   


Does a short priced favourite ever get beat on merit? Or is it always because they have an infection?

You might not agree with me reimer or like me for that matter although you don't even know me?, but I'm a 100% with you on this one, no sign of an infection before the race, horse disappoints and the excuses are flying.
Bottom line they expected to win yesterday that he didn't told them the horse they have was not quite good enough.
Sh!t happens!.

Ebadiyan and Barizan both ex john oxx who were decent hurdlers

Ebaziyan also but i think in general his cast-off offerings offer little hope of an r.o.i in general where the prices are still huge for lightly/unraced types.

John Oxx an overrated trainer whose career has been saved by Sea The Stars,never knows the worth of his horses and would be the opposite to Jim Bolger in that Bolger would get the last ounce out of his horses. Oxx wouldn`t know what he had half the time.

shawiya , michael o briens triumph hurdle winner . ex aga kahn i think ?

Think I'll pack it in
And buy a pick-up
Take it down to L.A.
Find a place to call my own
And try to fix up.
Start a brand new day.

The woman I'm thinking of,
She loved me all up
But I'm so down today
She's so fine, she's in my mind.
I hear her callin'.

See the lonely boy,
Out on the weekend
Trying to make it pay.
Can't relate to joy,
He tries to speak and
Can't begin to say.

She got pictures on the wall,
They make me look up
From her big brass bed.
Now I'm running down the road
Trying to stay up
Somewhere in her head.

The woman I'm thinking of,
She loved me all up
But I'm so down today
She's so fine she's in my mind.
I hear her callin'.

See the lonely boy,
Out on the weekend
Trying to make it pay.
Can't relate to joy,
He tries to speak and
Can't begin to say.

Apparently WPM has acquired Hartani

I'd say Hartani cost a right few quid.

He has indeed COM2