Handicaps close today for Chelters

Wildman do you not shorten the name of people you know or friends?

12pm 21st February - Forfeit Stage for 8 races
Supreme, Arkle, Challenge Cup, Neptune, RSA, Jewson, JCB & A.Bartlett.








ALSO Initial Entry Stage for 10 races

Festival H/cap Chase,
Centenary H/cap Chase,
Coral Cup,
Fred Winter,
Pertemps Hdl,
Byrne Group Plate,
Kim Muir,
County Hdl,
M.Pipe,
Grand Annual.

Go to the CHIT CHAT Forum, (THANKS) imho

Catchme,in reply to a post you made a couple of weeks ago on another thread,the Newcastle entries look "interesting"

What we need is another What A Charm like Arthurs last year. Special day for those of us who bet him.

I want this one to run over hurdles in the Coral Cup or Pipe race rather than over fences.

Off the same mark with his low fast jumping, hurdles would suit better imo and he would take serious beating.

Similar profile to Ilnamar who started over fences for Pipe, but then went back to hurdles for the Coral Cup. Unlikely we will get the same price if he does though.

Pipe updates are pointless. There is absolutely nothing worthwhile in any of them.

Yeah catchme,you gave future plans for Portrait king,seems you may well be right as he is declared for the eider.

When do trainers make up their minds about what horses go for what H'Caps at Chelters lads?

Would probably start a single figure price if it goes the Byrne route

Sorry for the delay DV,

Many Irish horses 'hard done by' in handicaps says O'Brien Thursday March 05 2009
There are few more recognisable characters on the racecourse than Noel O'Brien.

Thanks to a distinctive red mop that belies his 49 years, the Turf Club's senior National Hunt handicapper is instantly discernible and even enjoys a bit of a cult following among regular race-goers; most punters are in awe of the fact that anyone can be paid to watch jump racing with the sole objective of rating horses.

Essentially, he is to the National Hunt fanatic what the professional beer-taster is to the alcoholic, and he doesn't deny that the job held similar appeal to him when he started out with the Turf Club in 1977.

"I spent two years in accounts and two years in declarations," he says, "and I used to often say to the lads, 'imagine doing that for your living -- evaluating horses, assessing them, giving them ratings, creating handicaps'. To me, it was the ideal job and, when a position in the department became available, I applied."

Idealised perceptions aside, the handicapper's role is, of course, of immense consequence to both horses' connections and punters alike. Since working his way through the Turf Club's handicapping ranks to assume his current position in 1995, the Kildare man is ultimately responsible for the formation of every handicap hurdle or chase run in Ireland.

Next week, he will be on duty at Cheltenham, where part of his brief will be the patriotic duty of continuing to canvass on behalf of the travelling Irish horses. Despite there being an Anglo-Irish classification agreement between the handicapping departments on either side of the Irish Sea for the past seven years, relations are strained.

Disparities
In short, horses rated 140 or above compete off the same mark in England or Ireland (with the exception of the Aintree Grand National), but massive disparities arise in relation to horses outside the classification, with Irish horses being asked to run off disproportionably high ratings. Francis Flood's P'Tit Fute, for example, has been allocated a mark 20lbs higher than his Irish rating in Wednesday's Coral Cup, and 17lbs higher in Thursday's Pertemps Final.

Handicapping, through its subjective nature, is an inexact science, and the cause of the aggrieved Irish is not helped by the solid performances of so many of our horses, with our representatives winning 9pc of the handicaps at Cheltenham in the past four years. The English handicapper, Phil Smith, points to our impressive recent record of six winners if the last 10 Aintree Grand Nationals as further evidence of the fairness of his system.

O'Brien, however, challenges Smith's seemingly arbitrary methods.

"People say our horses cannot be badly treated in England because our horses do well over there, but the last two-mile handicap hurdle winner we had in the UK was in October, and the last two-and-a-half-mile handicap hurdle winner we had was in July," he reaons.

" Since the October win, there have been 85 runners, so to say that we're well treated is not borne out by stats like that.

"We have to put this into context, too. Phil's term coincided with this infamous 'Celtic Tiger', when so many of the Irish horses were being kept in the country. We weren't just winning handicaps in England, we were winning Gold Cups, Champion Chases and Champion Hurdles as well.

"Most of our horses have been hard done by next week, and the main problem is that owners and trainers have no idea how they will be treated. After the classification, what I have suggested is a sliding scale, whereby horses from 130 to 139 would carry 1lb more in England, those rated 120 to 129 would carry 2lbs more, and so on.

Competitive

"Naturally, because our racing is so much more competitive, particularly at the bottom end, the further down you go the more you would expect to be penalised in England.

"We have suggested that they come up with their own scale based on what has happened in the UK -- nothing to do with us.

"They would study what they have done with the ratings and how horses have performed, and decide on a suitable, transparent scale.

"We're in discussions at the moment and I would consider Phil Smith a friend of mine but, professionally, he has a job to do and looking after the interests of Irish horses isn't high on the list."

Racegoers in Cheltenham next week will see for themselves if O'Brien's hypothesis about Irish horses being badly handicapped in England is correct. At least, punters now travel well warned.

(© Richard Forristal) Happy Tony

12s best now

Hopefully this year's Junior!

Just checked............NOT OUT yet

84 for the JLT Festival Ch

92 for the PERTEMPS in CM

The handicaps might close but that doesn't stop connections from taking up multiple entries, handicaps and non handicaps.

Taking an antepost stand is fraught with danger unless you're the beneficiary of inside information.
Trainers will keep the public hanging on their coat tails right to the last minute before eventually declaring X horse for X race.

Personally I think all Cheltenham final declarations should close at least 3 weeks before the festival begins, that would be doing it right, but pleasing the punter at large is not exactly top of the agenda.

HUNT BALL

Tue, 13th Mar  Cheltenham 5.15 Pulteney Land Investments Novices` Handicap Chase (Grade 2) 
Thu, 15th Mar  Cheltenham 4.00 Byrne Group Plate Handicap Chase (Grade 3)

Presume BJG keeps the ride (IF HE WANTS IT - we will be watchin' out for that) after his win today.

I think if I said white was white duck you'd disagree with me.

Can you please elaborate as to the problems you suggest, fraught even?.

Nobody can now gate crash the Grand National field, and thats something like 8 weeks.