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Kelly
11 May 11 22:55
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Date Joined: 08 Mar 01
| Topic/replies: 8,927 | Blogger: Kelly's blog
Scottish soccer fans ( real ones , not the nutty hatred filled variety ) must be worried and ashamed by recent happenings .  No soccer fan myself as you all know from my posts , except where it is played as a thing of beauty a la Barcelona and a few other teams in the past , but the situation in Scotland needs serious addressing by authorities from their  new Assembly downwards .

Nothing new about sectarianism in Scottish football particularly among the supporters  of certain teams .  Something analagous happened in the North in late forties which resulted in Belfast Celtic pulling out and soccer died locally that day , albeit it took about 20 years of a slow death .  Paying for it now  , 2 men and a boy watching a lot of matches , although it still gets unbelievable media coverage given the paltry attendances and minimal interest by the general public .   But recent events must be a shot across the bows of the Scottish football authorities .

Needs radical action , not interested enough myself to devote much time to the solution , but there must be examples elsewhere which have been sorted .  At one stage Dutch football had a serious problem , but I think they sorted it .  Any suggestions ?

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Replies: 68
By:
Kriskin
When: 11 May 11 23:09
Well said Kelly.  I was there tonite at Tynecastle and it was a very bad atmosphere.  Scottish society in general has a lot to answer.  It's one WEE bigoted country.
By:
Kelly
When: 11 May 11 23:19
What was the atmosphere like in the ground Kriskin , before and after the attack incident ?
By:
Kriskin
When: 11 May 11 23:27
I've written on another thread on the football forum the atmosphere tonite was the worse for hatred I've experienced.  I've been to plenty of Celtic v Rangers games recently and they do not come close to that tonite.  U could feel the tension building up since the weekend for this game.  After the incident the Celtic fans were fuming.

The book should be thrown at the thug who attacked Neil Lennon
By:
padlock
When: 11 May 11 23:47
sickening people,think the dutch problem was very different to the scottish disease tbh
By:
revedesivola
When: 12 May 11 00:14
i think lennon often does nothing to help his cause, being provocative etc but to attack the man is plain ret@rded. i think the whole thing is nonsense, the fighting etc, if i was the kind of person that had nothing better to do than attack people for sectarianist or football reasons im pretty sure id hang myself
By:
kiddo112
When: 12 May 11 01:08
I think Sky have to take some responsibility. I was sat in today and had Sky Sports on, they were ramping this up every hour. Going live to a reporter at Tynecastle from midday onwards, interviewing Hearts fans about Lennon's comments, and reporter was repeatedly saying "whooh, the Hearts fans will be really up for it tonight" and "there is a lot of rivalry between the teams", etc. I know those "quotes" don't sound unusual, but it is hard to put across in words. Suffice to say it made a big impression on me before the game.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 12 May 11 09:02
I have to agree with Rev on this one i think Lennon could act with a lot more class than he actually does, saying that he has taken serious abuse but i can't help feel at times he does not help himself.
By:
Giant Strides
When: 12 May 11 10:21
I`m with reve and Rf. It`s hard to sympathize after his idiotic gesture following the last Old Firm game. Put your head down and show you`re better than that ffs.
By:
squigs
When: 12 May 11 10:40
Cupping your hands to your ears, after death threats and abuse all game is nothing. He faced abuse both personal  and sectarian in that match at the end of the game he goes over to his teams supporters and cops abuse from a large portion of the crowd on the way back, he is not a robot human nature is to react. The fact that Scottish football in particular the West of Scotland has never eliminated sectarianism (On Both Sides) has allowed this situation to manifest.

No more in Scottish football did I think I would see bullets sent to managers, nail bombs sent to managers, you could easily see a death in the next season.

He is not always the nicest guy in the world and I don't like the guy, but he has been subjected to  the most vicious hate campaign, during his time as Celtic manager and peoples opionion's here are he has asked for it. I don't think anyone's behaviour could justify this.
By:
the jolly
When: 12 May 11 10:47
Some people on here need to get off their high horses.

Why footy banter is a game of give and take
By Tam Cowan on Apr 27, 11 06:33 AM in

CHOP his hands off. Yeah, that's it. Treat him like a Saudi Arabian shoplifter and cut his hands off now.

Surely that's the only sensible punishment for Neil Lennon after the Celtic boss committed the utterly heinous crime of cupping his ears? This all sounds like some sort of ridiculous wind-up. But, no, some people really are frothing at the mouth and complaining in the most bitter fashion about Lennon's gesture at the end of Sunday's Old Firm match.

Can you believe these muppets? For the entire afternoon - and throughout every previous visit to the stadium - the Celtic gaffer endured foul-mouthed abuse from three corners of Ibrox with "Neil Lennon you're a w****r" one of the kinder chants.

And what happens when he (gasp!) holds his paws behind his lugholes? That's right - they all run to the cops and demand he's hung, drawn and quartered.

Utterly pathetic, isn't it? Where have they been the last hellish couple of weeks? Death threats? Deal with it, Lenny. Twentyfour hour police protection? So what? Letter bombs in the post? Dry your eyes, wee man. We've all had junk mail.

But cupping your ears in front of 40,000 Rangers fans who've been giving you dog's abuse all afternoon? Oh yes, that's really criminal. Slap the cuffs on, officer.

At this point, I'm probably meant to jump on the bandwagon and give it all that mealy-mouthed claptrap about how Lennon should have stayed off the park and quietly disappeared up the tunnel for a post-match bottle of beer with his old sparring partner Ally McCoist.

But I'd sooner have a pop at the two-faced hypocrites in the crowd who can dish out the vile abuse but clearly can't handle a bit of harmless banter in return.

Mind you, what do you expect? All football fans are exactly the same.

Players and managers get it in the neck at every ground in Scotland week after week and some of the language would make Roy Chubby Brown blush.

But what happens when the same players and managers rise to the bait and shout or gesture back to the crowd? Yep, the big brave loudmouths in Row D run like wee lassies to the nearest steward and demand a full police inquiry.

I've seen it umpteen times at Fir Park. And, if I'm being totally honest, I've been every bit as guilty as the Rangers fans on Sunday. But at least I was a daft young laddie at the time.

About 30 years ago, after being subjected to constant X-rated chants from Motherwell fans, the late great Davie Cooper (who later became a Fir Park legend, of course, which backs up my point about supporters being totally two-faced) scored a goal for Rangers and celebrated by giving his claret and amber critics a fly V-sign.

All hell broke loose and, after the final whistle, a posse of Well fans (myself included) marched to the local cop shop to file a formal complaint.

Chuck in a few burning torches and pitchforks and we'd have looked like the villagers from an old Frankenstein movie.

Thinking back now, it makes me cringe. And three days after that carry-on at Ibrox, I hope the Rangers fans feel the same.

As Lennon pointed out - and it's an important point considering what he's had to endure over the past few weeks - it was a bit of humour.

Exactly. Remember how we used to pride ourselves on having a laugh and a joke in this country? On that note, I'll finish with a confession. While hosting a wee charity cabaret show in a Hamilton pub on Easter Monday, a punter asked if we could open a few windows and said: "Come on, Tam. I'm sweating like Neil Lennon's postman."

That was also a bit of humour. And I bet the Celtic boss would have enjoyed a wee chuckle himself. But should I now have my tongue cut out because I laughed?
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 12 May 11 11:19
He's the manager of Celtic football club as Giant says he should show he's better than that, when was the last time you saw Alex Ferguson or Pep Guardiola do that? If he had walked off the pitch that day i think he would have won a lot of friends and taken the high moral ground instead he is what he is a tramp.

Ferguson and Guardiola both had matches recently where they were getting dogs abuse. Lennon has once again let himself down and shown he has zero class. If you examine he results they are terrible he has managed to lose a title to a 2 bob team in Rangers in a terrible league, for that he should be ran alone.
By:
GANT007
When: 12 May 11 11:51
Where did Ferguson and Guardiola get the same level of abuse Lennon got?.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 12 May 11 11:54
Is it Scottish footballs fault or is it the hordes of sectarian louts who stream over from these Islands both north and south from both sides of divide who made both Celtic and Rangers their tribal tattoo?.
Scottish football always had an element of sectarianism but since the start of the troubles it seemed to escalate 10 fold, ok the recent troubles are touch wood a thing of the past but the sectarian divide is well and truely entrenched and it will take generations before those shackles are loosened.
Easy to blame Scottish football when the island of Ireland has invaded and brought with it all the hatred that has festered over the last 40 years or so.

Tell me this why has Lennon become such a hate figure, has he got a republican background ie family or relatives?.
By:
Tony Fenton
When: 12 May 11 11:58
Lennon must take a little responsibility for all this. His gestures to the Rankgers fans after the title losing 0-0 draw were idiotic.

Parcel bombs and fan assaults are beyond the pale though.
By:
GANT007
When: 12 May 11 12:01
Don't be slagging us Culchies........beyond the Pale.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 12 May 11 12:06
Pep Guardiola was getting dogs in the semi final of the champs league Gant. Fergie everytime he goes to Anfield they get dogs abuse from opposing fans and usually more than the 40k Rangers fans.
By:
the jolly
When: 12 May 11 12:06
Silvergreaser - you are way wide of the mark to state that secterianism in Scot football escalated 10 fold since the start of the troubles and trying to pin it on Irish fans travelleing over for matches.  Scotland has had its own form of Secterianism going back generations and still pervades that society today, thru Schools systems etc.  Rangers FC did not sign a catholic of note until the late eighties and were forced into doing to by an enlightened manager and growing commercial forces in the game. I travel over occasionnally for games and resent the general tag you putting on Irish fans.
By:
squigs
When: 12 May 11 12:08
He's the manager of Celtic football club as Giant says he should show he's better than that, when was the last time you saw Alex Ferguson or Pep Guardiola do that? If he had walked off the pitch that day i think he would have won a lot of friends and taken the high moral ground instead he is what he is a tramp.

No they will always hate him, no matter what he did. I've seen Mourinho do that on numerous occasions but I did not see him get nail bombs sent to his house.

Ferguson and Guardiola both had matches recently where they were getting dogs abuse. Lennon has once again let himself down and shown he has zero class.

They have not received threats to their personal safety, as said before this transcends football and their is no comparison.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 12 May 11 12:09
Most Celtic fans support Celtic because they are a catholic club, not because of anything else. The bigotry that exists with both sets of supporters is sick i have no time for either club.
By:
zipifried
When: 12 May 11 12:09
Tony he resons to the abuse with a harmless gesture and sticks up for himself and reacts and is the product of that abuse his entire life yet it is his fault ?
By:
Tony Fenton
When: 12 May 11 12:09
the jolly, what is your connection with Celtic of Glasgow? I'm always amazed at the vast sums of money Irish people are prepared to spend going to Britain to support teams over there.

The GAA offers great value imo.
By:
the jolly
When: 12 May 11 12:10
P.S  I hope you can at least see the irony when you state
"Easy to blame Scottish football when the island of Ireland has invaded and brought with it all the hatred that has festered over the last 40 years or so".
By:
zipifried
When: 12 May 11 12:19
and where did the hate fester from Jolly ?
By:
Tony Fenton
When: 12 May 11 12:22
zipifried not sure what you were saying earlier. I agree that Lennon must take some reposnsibility.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 12 May 11 12:27
Jolly I was fully aware there was an element of irony in what I typed, but we are of course talking about the past, as for your earlier reply I did say that Scottish football always had an element of sectarianism and I was well aware also of Rngers refusal to sign Catholic players, but I stand by what I said about the northern Ireland troubles escalating things, maybe not 10 fold but its hard to argue to the contrary?.
By:
zipifried
When: 12 May 11 12:30
I have read a lot of that Tony and i understand why people are saying it but i honestly believe people have no understanding of his situation and cards he was dealt in life as a Northern Irishman of the Celtic persuasian. He has every right to respond to constant abuse and stand his ground, give as good as he gets but when he does look what happens, the racism of Northern Irishmen has built up through the media for many years and it is evident all over Britain and southern Ireland. Lennon is a microcosm of it.
By:
Tony Fenton
When: 12 May 11 12:33
An uncle of mine has red hair zipi and he has an awful temper on him. I think Lenny needs to count to 10. The cupping the ears thing was just stupid, would you not agree iyo?
By:
the jolly
When: 12 May 11 12:37
Tony, I have followed Celtic since the eighties after reading a book on their history.  As you are prob aware, the club was founded by an Irishman to support Irish immigrants in Glasgown in the late 19th century. It has maintained strong irish links throughout its history, through its players, supporters and more lately managers. The Tricolour still flies over Celtic Park - not as a republican gesture (Most Scots dont give a rats about the Irish situation), but as a relection of the clubs roots. The relationship between Celtic and Ireland is everlasting - (not like the fleeting relationships with Liverpool and Manu and the next genertion who will prob support Chelsea and ManC).  I also support my local GAA club, mu local soccer club, my local rugby club, but it is with Celtic that I get to support a club with strong Irish links across Europe etc.
The Celtic support are by and large a decent bunch and it is galling to be labelled with the other crowd as 'The Old Firm'. It lends itself easily to the lazy conclusion that they are both the same.  Well they are not both the same! Take a recent simple comparison - Celtic qualify for the EUFA cup final and take approx 130,000 fans to Seville.  They win a EUFA Fans award for 2003 for their fans behaviour across Europe. Rangers qualify for a EUFA cup final in 2008 and wreck the centre of Manchester. They receive fines from EUFA for the secterian singing of their fans in European cities.  I could go on....
By:
GANT007
When: 12 May 11 12:38
As a player he was forced to leave the Northern Ireland set up and many young players have followed suit.
By:
zipifried
When: 12 May 11 12:49
Tony the cupping of the ears is harmless banter ,he didn't kill anybody ffs, he is a product of his society and his will to take no abuse because of his identity or Ginger hair.
By:
Tony Fenton
When: 12 May 11 12:50
I used to like them from afar when Charlie Nicholas was playing with them the jolly but the more I read and heard about the whole hatred thing the less I liked it.

I'm indifferent to the entire matter now. The standard of association football played in Northern Britain is rubbish. Richie Foran scored again last night.
By:
the jolly
When: 12 May 11 13:02
Celtic supporters generally stay with the team thru the good days and the bad days Tony, not just when Charlie is playing or when the standard is to your liking.  Celtics hands largely tied these days competing with the likes of Wigan and Blackburn for transfer targets. Unfortunately the EPL clubs have massive funds coming from Sky. Hard for Celtic to compete with that, but glad to see the majority of supporters worldwide sticking with them.
By:
jasonk178.
When: 12 May 11 13:06
lennon cupping his ears was not harmless banter zipifried,it was intended to antagonise.lennon is a hateful wee man and you couldnt like him if you rared him.whilst i comdemn the nail bombs/pitch invasion etc its my belief that lennon only makes an already bad situation worse with his constant antagonistic behaviour.contrast lennon with ally mccoist who is a complete gentleman and also a really nice guy in person and a cradit to his club.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 12 May 11 13:08
Nobody answered my question, I'm just a little curious to know?, because no other Celtic manager has ever been the subject to such burning hate like Lennon has.

Has Lennon got republican connections that has fueled the hatred?
By:
Tony Fenton
When: 12 May 11 13:08
the jolly you completely ignored my point about the hatred being the reason for not giving Celtic of Glasgow the time of day any longer.

My point about Charlie was that it was many years ago.

Enjoy your trips away, I prefer to invest in Ireland.
By:
zipifried
When: 12 May 11 13:11
Another eager to say pitch invader wa wrong but Lennon deserved it for harmless gestures and giving out what he takes, doesn't add up.
By:
GANT007
When: 12 May 11 13:17
Silvergreaser........he played minor for Armagh.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 12 May 11 13:17
Same as that Tony i used to be a bit of a follower from afar of Celtic, event went to a few games but the hatred and the religious stuff turned me off it. I am sure for everyone like myself and Baloney there is more who likes a rivalry built on religion, not on sport, no matter how much Celtic fans want to disagree with me.
By:
squigs
When: 12 May 11 13:19
Celtic supporters generally stay with the team thru the good days and the bad days

Good or bad, they are guaranteed to finish 1st or 2nd every season. Tough times, Tough times.
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